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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 09-18-2018, 2:05 PM
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Default How to convert semi to bolt action cheap?

Anyone experience with this? Is it easy to DIY the gas block.

I am planning to build one, but not to many sell custom gas block or even cheap.
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Old 09-18-2018, 2:10 PM
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I've seen some rifles with their gas block installed upside down and without a gas tube. Some people say that is not legal and you need a custom barrel without a gas port hole, or it needs to be welded shut to make it truly non-semi-automatic. It will be interesting to see where this thread goes.
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  #3  
Old 09-18-2018, 2:11 PM
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Literally punch out the roll pin on the gas block and remove the gas tube. Be aware that you’re gonna be spitting powder and stuff rearwards though. So making a pin that plugs the port will be mandatory. Can’t imagine it taking more than a couple minutes. Maybe cut off a super short section of the gas tube and fill it with jb weld and crimp it closed so it can’t shoot the jb weld towards you or weld it shut for real, then you haven’t perminantly modified the gas block and can just put the blocked tube in when you want it to be bolt action.
-Gabe
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Old 09-18-2018, 2:12 PM
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It is not cheap, but maybe check out the Kali-Key.
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Old 09-18-2018, 2:28 PM
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How about just flippping the gas block around?
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Old 09-18-2018, 2:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow Dynamics View Post
I've seen some rifles with their gas block installed upside down and without a gas tube. Some people say that is not legal and you need a custom barrel without a gas port hole, or it needs to be welded shut to make it truly non-semi-automatic. It will be interesting to see where this thread goes.
Some people have a lot of FUD in their heads.

What a bunch of nonsense.

Not criticizing you, Larry, but just saying this kind of stuff is ridiculous and completely not supported by any textual basis. If you take out the gas tube, it's not semi-automatic. The regulation is clear on that.

ďSemiautomaticĒ means a firearm functionally able to fire a single cartridge, eject the
empty case, and reload the chamber each time the trigger is pulled and released. Further,
certain necessary mechanical parts that will allow a firearm to function in a semiautomatic
nature must be present for a weapon to be deemed semiautomatic. A weapon clearly
designed to be semiautomatic but lacking a firing pin, bolt carrier, gas tube, or some other
crucial part of the firearm is not semiautomatic for purposes of Penal Code sections
30515, 30600, 30605(a), and 30900.
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  #7  
Old 09-18-2018, 2:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Califpatriot View Post
Some people have a lot of FUD in their heads.

What a bunch of nonsense.

Not criticizing you, Larry, but just saying this kind of stuff is ridiculous and completely not supported by any textual basis. If you take out the gas tube, it's not semi-automatic. The regulation is clear on that.

“Semiautomatic” means a firearm functionally able to fire a single cartridge, eject the
empty case, and reload the chamber each time the trigger is pulled and released. Further,
certain necessary mechanical parts that will allow a firearm to function in a semiautomatic
nature must be present for a weapon to be deemed semiautomatic. A weapon clearly
designed to be semiautomatic but lacking a firing pin, bolt carrier, gas tube, or some other
crucial part of the firearm is not semiautomatic for purposes of Penal Code sections
30515, 30600, 30605(a), and 30900.
I agree with you and I totally don't take it as criticizing me. I was just stating what other people have done and said, but then also said... "It will be interesting to see where this thread goes." I should have just posted the first part about flipping the gas block and then the penal code like I have in the past. I'm getting lazy because I'm too busy.

.
.
.

The thread will probably still go in a weird direction.
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Old 09-18-2018, 3:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow Dynamics View Post
It is not cheap, but maybe check out the Kali-Key.
They dont have one yet for Ar10 yet. I saw it on TDS.
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  #9  
Old 09-18-2018, 3:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xscmurcielago View Post
Literally punch out the roll pin on the gas block and remove the gas tube. Be aware that youíre gonna be spitting powder and stuff rearwards though. So making a pin that plugs the port will be mandatory. Canít imagine it taking more than a couple minutes. Maybe cut off a super short section of the gas tube and fill it with jb weld and crimp it closed so it canít shoot the jb weld towards you or weld it shut for real, then you havenít perminantly modified the gas block and can just put the blocked tube in when you want it to be bolt action.
-Gabe
I prefer to avoid gas in the face and hands. Wont be pleasant. Lol
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  #10  
Old 09-18-2018, 3:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sambodian View Post
I prefer to avoid gas in the face and hands. Wont be pleasant. Lol
Yes, not pleasant!

Rotate the gas block or scoot it forward enough to block the hole.
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  #11  
Old 09-18-2018, 3:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow Dynamics View Post
I've seen some rifles with their gas block installed upside down and without a gas tube. Some people say that is not legal and you need a custom barrel without a gas port hole, or it needs to be welded shut to make it truly non-semi-automatic. It will be interesting to see where this thread goes.
The PC is clear enough that this is legal. A semi without the parts is not semi I agree. I went further with mine and welded the port, I built mine before all the regs came out just because I wanted to try it. I used the AR stoner side charger upper and left the buffer & spring in and honestly I am pretty happy with it.

There are a lot of people that will tell you it wont work right because the gas system is gone, saying it wont chamber right and that it wont eject correctly. So far for me almost 2000 rds in and no issues whatsoever. My only complaint is the charging handle is on the right side instead of the left so if you pull too fast your index finger knuckle becomes a case deflector. My bolt is drilled on both side so at some point I will take it apart and mill a slot into it for the left side.
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  #12  
Old 09-18-2018, 3:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow Dynamics View Post
Yes, not pleasant!

Rotate the gas block or scoot it forward enough to block the hole.
I need to try put that sparrow grip. I using the exile hammerhead. Not pleasant at the web, and sturdy but heavy.
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  #13  
Old 09-18-2018, 3:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sambodian View Post
They dont have one yet for Ar10 yet. I saw it on TDS.
Yes they do but its out of stock at the moment.
AR10/308 Kali-Key Bolt Action Charging Handle
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  #14  
Old 09-18-2018, 3:40 PM
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if you don't want to mess with a pinned gas block, just cut the gas tube then curl / crush the little bit of tube you leave behind.

done deal.

no gas/powder to the face, and don't need anything more than pliers and hacksaw / dremel with cut-off wheel.

or get creative and cut the gas tube, bend it up so it pokes through the top of the handguard, and mount a whistle or duck call to it. or get really creative and bend that tube in a way so you can rest a hot dog on it and cook up a snack while shooting.
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  #15  
Old 09-18-2018, 3:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Bullets&Whitewalls View Post
The PC is clear enough that this is legal.
Not really, it is codified in the Cal Code Regs, not the PC. And don't forget CCR 5460, which applied CCR 5471 to the PC, was withdrawn.

So it's not in the PC.
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Old 09-18-2018, 4:01 PM
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If you have a clamp type or 2 piece type gas block, you can probably get away with tapping the hole in the gas block and installing a stainless headless Allen screw into it where the gas flows into the gas block, not on the exit port of the gas block.

It would be easy enough to switch back at a later date.
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Old 09-18-2018, 4:12 PM
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Originally Posted by God Bless America View Post
Not really, it is codified in the Cal Code Regs, not the PC. And don't forget CCR 5460, which applied CCR 5471 to the PC, was withdrawn.

So it's not in the PC.
Ahh very good point there. I forgot that
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  #18  
Old 09-18-2018, 5:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuolumnejim View Post
Yes they do but its out of stock at the moment.
AR10/308 Kali-Key Bolt Action Charging Handle
Yeah that what i mean. Out of stock
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Old 09-18-2018, 5:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Bullets&Whitewalls View Post
Ahh very good point there. I forgot that
Ya well it's not like the whole thing is a clusterfcuk or anything.
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Old 09-18-2018, 5:49 PM
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I wonder if i can seal the hole with solder. Would that hold for 308.
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  #21  
Old 09-18-2018, 5:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Sambodian View Post
Anyone experience with this? Is it easy to DIY the gas block.

I am planning to build one, but not to many sell custom gas block or even cheap.
OP, just build with an undrilled barrel. No GB, no gas tube, keeps costs and risks down.
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Old 09-18-2018, 6:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bull*****_CA_Laws
ďSemiautomaticĒ means a firearm functionally able to fire a single cartridge, eject the
empty case, and reload the chamber each time the trigger is pulled and released. Further,
certain necessary mechanical parts that will allow a firearm to function in a semiautomatic
nature must be present for a weapon to be deemed semiautomatic. A weapon clearly
designed to be semiautomatic but lacking a firing pin, bolt carrier, gas tube, or some other
crucial part of the firearm is not semiautomatic for purposes of Penal Code sections
30515, 30600, 30605(a), and 30900.
Question: moving the gas block forward or flipping it, or adding an allen screw to block gas flow does this not seem to satisfy the above section which requires a "crucial part" of the firearm to be removed, rendering it not semi-automatic?

What am I missing here?
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  #23  
Old 09-18-2018, 6:26 PM
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Originally Posted by colonelhogan44 View Post
Question: moving the gas block forward or flipping it, or adding an allen screw to block gas flow does this not seem to satisfy the above section which requires a "crucial part" of the firearm to be removed, rendering it not semi-automatic?

What am I missing here?
That should be enough, except for the uncertainty created by the withdrawal of the regulaion applying the definition regulation to the penal code.

An otherwise-functional AW missing a part, under the law of one unpublished case, could still be an AW.

Here's the case: Chaker

Last edited by God Bless America; 09-18-2018 at 7:15 PM..
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Old 09-18-2018, 6:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colonelhogan44 View Post
Question: moving the gas block forward or flipping it, or adding an allen screw to block gas flow does this not seem to satisfy the above section which requires a "crucial part" of the firearm to be removed, rendering it not semi-automatic?

What am I missing here?
Flipping the gas block around would also entail REMOVING the gas tube, otherwise the gas tube would be sticking out the front of the gun...

Once you removed the gas tube, you are missing a crucial part.
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Old 09-18-2018, 6:57 PM
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But moving it forward or tapping in a set screw would not mean removal, correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by God Bless America
That should be enough, except for the uncertainty created by the withdrawal of the regulaion applying the definition regulation to the penal code.
When was the above language removed? What is the current definition?
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Old 09-18-2018, 7:09 PM
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July of this year.

Current regulatory definition for purposes of Penal Code? Uncertain.

The Chaker case is based on bad facts, he was a d-bag and acted like one.

A close reading of Chaker shows that he had an assembled AW, but just pulled the bolt in an effort to avoid AW possession.

Under that case, somebody building a manually-operated rifle from scratch did not have an AW if it was never assembled as one.

Somebody with an undrilled barrel is in a better position yet.

Last edited by God Bless America; 09-18-2018 at 7:12 PM..
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Old 09-18-2018, 7:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Sambodian View Post
Anyone experience with this? Is it easy to DIY the gas block.

I am planning to build one, but not to many sell custom gas block or even cheap.
Would this work??

https://youtu.be/2qRYIAcW_7A
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Old 09-18-2018, 9:23 PM
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Originally Posted by God Bless America View Post
OP, just build with an undrilled barrel. No GB, no gas tube, keeps costs and risks down.
Hahaha.
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Old 09-18-2018, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colonelhogan44 View Post
But moving it forward or tapping in a set screw would not mean removal, correct?
You would not HAVE to remove the gas tube in those two cases, but you certainly CAN and SHOULD.
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Old 09-18-2018, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sambodian View Post
I prefer to avoid gas in the face and hands. Wont be pleasant. Lol
Read the rest of what I said. Cutting the forward section of the gas tube free of the rest and retaining it with a half inch or so protruding from the rear of the block and filling that with jb weld or similar and crimping it shut will seal it off and wonít cost more than a couple bucks and is fully reversible. You said cheap. Itís the cheapest. And itís fully reversible if you wanted to do so, all youíd need is a new gas tube for a few bucks. Canít beat it for what youíre doing. Flipping the block wonít work for every setup, if itís pinned for example, or if youíre using a slim free float tube where the top of the block sits up in the relieved portion under the top rail, there wouldnít be room to rotate in a lot of rails. Just plug it and shoot it.
-Gabe
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Originally Posted by CoopsDad...

"Taking a Mosin to a smith for a new barrel is like taking a cat to the vet- easier and cheaper to just get another. "
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  #31  
Old 09-19-2018, 7:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Sambodian View Post
Hahaha.
Undrilled gas port.

LW barrel with no gas port

Last edited by God Bless America; 09-19-2018 at 7:40 AM..
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  #32  
Old 09-19-2018, 7:58 AM
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Sell off AR, buy Rem 783 and pocket the difference?
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Old 09-19-2018, 8:07 AM
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If you don’t already have the upper, then the simplest route is to start with a mock dissipator. It has a low profile gas block and a separate FSB.

The gas block is secured by set screws, FSB is pinned.

The work is done by moving the low profile gas block. Loosen the set screws in the gas block, slide it forward enough to remove the gas tube, slide gas block back and tilt to block the gas port, tighten set screws.

Good source for mock dissipator is Palmetto State Armory.
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Old 09-19-2018, 8:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xscmurcielago View Post
Flipping the block won’t work for every setup, if it’s pinned for example, or if you’re using a slim free float tube where the top of the block sits up in the relieved portion under the top rail, there wouldn’t be room to rotate in a lot of rails.
There is room to flip it end-for-end in those rails.
Most gas blocks have 2 setscrews.
If you flip the block around so that the gas tube would be pointing forward and install the gas block's front setscrew at the rear, the gas block is now blocking the gas port in the barrel and the gas port in the gas block is over a part of the barrel with no gas port.
No need to even cut up the gas tube.
Just remove it and save it.
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:12 PM
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These aren't cheap, but in my case, I built two stripped lowers with side cocking upper receivers that were converted to bolt action only by tapping the gas tube port behind the cloverleaf 3/8-16 with a 6" extension tap, and JB Weld epoxying a S.S. 3/8-16x 3/8" set screw into place from the rear so that the BCG would close with the gas key in place, and the bolt close with a headspace gauge installed. After curing, the epoxy adherence was tested with a hex key, until the wrench twisted without breaking the bond.

Also I had Hart Barrels custom build varmint contour barrels with NO Gas Port, two are 20" 1:9" twist .223 Wylde chambers, and a third is a 24" varmint contour barrel in .204 Ruger, that can be interchanged.

The Colt M-4 California Model AR I had was modified to rimfire with a Alexander Arms complete .17 HMR upper (https://www.shopalexanderarms.com/17_HMR_Uppers.html) that included a rimfire magazine adapter, that permanently attaches to the lower. The Charging Handle was replaced with a Gunfighter Gear Side Charging Handle, for scope use (http://gfgear.com/charging-handles/a...g-side-charger.

All three AR's are accurate and used for varmint hunting. The brass drops on my portable bench, is cool to the touch and not all smugged up, I use a brass catcher for the rimfire to avoid littering with spent cases.

.223 Wylde Upper typical accuracy:



Alexander Arms .17 HMR at 50 yards CCI TNT 16 grain Lead Free Sight in.



.204 Ruger test loads, 10shots 100 yards.


Last edited by Wrangler John; 09-19-2018 at 12:19 PM..
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  #36  
Old 09-19-2018, 1:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kAnJii View Post
How about just flippping the gas block around?
This.
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Old 09-19-2018, 5:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
There is room to flip it end-for-end in those rails.
Most gas blocks have 2 setscrews.
If you flip the block around so that the gas tube would be pointing forward and install the gas block's front setscrew at the rear, the gas block is now blocking the gas port in the barrel and the gas port in the gas block is over a part of the barrel with no gas port.
No need to even cut up the gas tube.
Just remove it and save it.
Sorry I was tired. I thought everyone was saying move the block from 12 o clock to 6 o clock. Yes. Dear god yes. Thatís so simple. But if itís pinned to my way.
-Gabe
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"I own several firearms, none of them are "toys". I hear a "bump" in the middle of the night...I am not reaching for my Xbox controller..."

Originally Posted by CoopsDad...

"Taking a Mosin to a smith for a new barrel is like taking a cat to the vet- easier and cheaper to just get another. "
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Old 09-19-2018, 5:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xscmurcielago View Post
Sorry I was tired. I thought everyone was saying move the block from 12 o clock to 6 o clock. Yes. Dear god yes. Thatís so simple. But if itís pinned to my way.
I know that you can't keep the pin, but you can just leave the pin out too and it will work fine with the set screws.
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Old 09-20-2018, 8:06 AM
divingin divingin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow Dynamics View Post
Yes, not pleasant!

Rotate the gas block or scoot it forward enough to block the hole.
Chuck a short piece of brass rod in a drill, sand/file to size, cut a notch, cut to length, and pin it into the block. No more gas.
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