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California handguns Discuss your favorite California handgun technical and related questions here. |
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#42
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Indeed it is. We have to pay a DROS that many other states don't have an equivalent of, while the even playing fields is well, already made even by FFL transfer fees?
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#45
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In CA, you'll get taxed by those greedy suckers - even if they are a private seller and it's not a retail sale. Yes, individuals can ship.
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WTB: Emerson SOCFK-A |
#46
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Apec
I don't think that's correct. We frequently do sales tax reports and we have several exemptions. First is resale to another buyer for retail sales. They collect the final retail sales tax. Second is goods shipped out of state. Thus, if okla buys from a CA dealer, for shipping to him and the goods are then shipped to him, in Oklahoma, CA sales tax is not collected nor due. So far, I know of no other state that has started to charge sales tax on internet sales. California has started to do that as of September of this year. They first and foremost went after Amazon, as they are a 'big fish'. They may well miss some of the smaller and further away internet sellers. I believe earlier this year CA ffls were notified that they must collect sales tax on out of state, or internet purchases of firearms shipped into the state for sale to CA residents. dc |
#47
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Maybe I was distracted by the television in the background but what I read the BOE letter it reminded me of the South Park underwear gnomes episode where they say "step one, collect underpants; step three, profit!"
Reading the legal citations provided in the letter it seemed clear to me that in all cases the referenced out of state sellers would have to be out of state RETAILERS in order for tax to be collected here. Then the BOE official remarkably concludes that the law also applies to private party out of state sellers. Magic. Of course it could cost you $300,000 to fight it all the way to a court of appeal so they'll get away with it, but sheesh.
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I am not your lawyer. I am not giving you or anyone else who reads my posts legal advice. I am making off-the-cuff comments that may or may not be accurate and are personal, not professional, opinion. If you think you need a lawyer please retain a qualified attorney in your jurisdiction. Your local bar association may be able to help if you need a referral. Two Weeks!: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/a...p/t-59936.html |
#48
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http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=534146 Quote:
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WTB: Emerson SOCFK-A |
#50
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There should not be any tax charged on the shipping.
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#51
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Tax sucks!
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God so loved the world He gave His only Son... Believe in Him and have everlasting life. John 3:16 NRA,,, Lifer United Air Epic Fail Video ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u99Q7pNAjvg |
#52
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I bought a pistol from a private individual in Wisonsin. He shipped it to my FFL here in California. When I completed the DROS, my FFL charged me a fee of $65 plus the DROS of $25. He then added sales tax on his fee of $65, for a total of $95.20. If that's what California intends, it is ridiculously unfair!
This kind of stuff makes me want to do more of my shopping on the internet ! California is rapidly disintegrating from its own rules and laws. |
#53
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I purchased my handgun from Maine, Had it shipped to one of my local FFL dealers and picked it up today. He did not charge CA sales tax, When I questioned him about it, he pulled a letter from the State of CA showing the collection of sales tax is not longer required.
I didn't argue or further verify this, I just know he didn't collect tax from me Brian |
#54
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#56
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You should NOT be paying any TAX on a purchase from a PRIVATE seller, in or out of state.
IF you buy from an auction that is a private seller, NO TAX IF yo buy from an auction or seller that is a business/store/online retail seller you will PAY TAX. |
#57
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There is a 2009 letter which says that you don't have to collect sales tax from out of state private purchases, but that was changed in late 2011 and I also have another letter from 2012. So, unless someone can come up with a more recent letter than around May 2012, it is not correct. I would love to see such a letter.
There is a FAQ on sales tax in the FFL forum. You have to read the whole thing since it changes over time, but with the exception of a C&R handgun from an out of state private seller and which is an occasional sale and the buyer has a C&R FFL, sales tax has to be collected on all out of state firearms.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#58
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Incorrect. Check with the CA BOE. Because the firearm is not being delivered to you, the shipping is subject to sales tax, just like items you buy in the store. Part of the cost is shipping, which the total price includes, but you pay sales tax on it. If you order an item and have it delivered to the store, the shipping is subject to sales tax. Only if it is delivered directly to you is the shipping exempt from sales tax.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#60
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The DROS is $25, so if they are representing it as $35, it is illegal.
if the firearm is coming from a business, it has been subject to sales tax for decades. For firearms from a private party, it was a recent change (late 2011).
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#61
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Asked them about the $35, their response was that's just what they charge.
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#62
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http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs#13
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#63
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#64
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Yes, if they list it is a separate fee, it is legal, but if they claim the DROS fee is $35 then it is not.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#66
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California has become the ultimate rip-off state. I just purchased a Ruger LC9 with Lasermax in Arkansas for $425 + $34 sales tax (8%). There were no additional fees whatsoever. Plus, I walked out with the pistol because there is no waiting period. Gotta love states like that! And, with all the California gun laws, there is more crime here per capita than states with less gun laws. Go figure!
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#67
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There was no additional fees, in part, because the FFL sold you the firearm, but also because it sounds like they are using the NICS system, which is free. The background checks really should be free, especially for a CA PPT. You have to love it that the FFL has to take a discounted fee, but CA gets their full amount, which exceeds the costs.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#68
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#70
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While you paid, you did not actually buy the firearm (there is a whole discussion on this aspect), and it is being shipped to another business, which is exempt from sales tax. It is only taxable when it is transferred to the end customer.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#72
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I feel sorry for your FFL when he is audited as he is going to owe a lot of money.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#73
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I know I tried telling him. Does anyone know where the copy of a letter from the BOE that states the FFL must collect sales tax is located so that I can print it out and take it to him?
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#74
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As well as: http://www.boe.ca.gov/business/Vol2/suta-q-s.pdf See: 495.0843 & 495.0848 Also: http://www.boe.ca.gov/lawguides/busi...sutl/6007.html As said, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#75
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The use tax however is based on what invoice you show the ca dealer. So it's just like the dmv collecting sales tax on a car from a private party sale. You show them your invoice and the tax is based on that.
It's amazing how many $500.00 BMW's there are out there.... |
#76
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I talked to the BOE about a fake receipt and they told me that I owed the actual amount regardless of what the receipt said, even if the receipt did not appear to be fake.
Since the FFL is responsible, it is foolish for the FFL to take part in any attempted sales tax evasion since the FFL is liable for the money and gets nothing out of collecting an incorrect amount. In the case of the DMV, only those involved will have an issue should the BOE decide to deal with it and the people involved are getting something out of it (less money to pay). One word of warning, if you try to play such games, don't be surprised if the FFL decides to not do the transfer.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#78
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Struggling to make sense of this reply.
If you take a receipt into the receiving dealer he has no reason to suspect that it is a fake or not. He will take what he sees at face value. Granted if someone buys a Sig P226 with a 10 round count and claims it as costing $50.00 then he may smell a rat. However, he has committed no crime at all. The perp here is the presenter of the possible false receipt. However, the BOE has no knowledge of the condition of the gun. crushed frame, grip, totally rusted out etc. Of course the BOE would say that you owe the tax regardless of what the receipt says, but how does the receiving dealer establish value? The BOE says by the sales receipt! Quote:
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#79
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The laws are the laws. Anyone who does not follow the laws are doing so at great risk.
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Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
#80
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__________________
Kemasa. False signature edited by Paul: Banned from the FFL forum due to being rude and insulting. Doing this continues his abuse. Don't tell someone to read the rules he wrote or tell him that he is wrong. Never try to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and you annoy the pig. - Robert A. Heinlein |
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