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California handguns Discuss your favorite California handgun technical and related questions here. |
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#441
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Point 1 - The CA7 is on the Roster. This is unambiguous. Point 2 - Franklin Armory is selling a product that is certified safe by the state of California. It has survived scrutiny by the lab. Point 3 - If I recommend that you change the product, post purchase, then the state can use that against my company. That type of advice could be defined as "negligent entrustment," not because it resulted in an illegal configuration, but because it would be recommending a change of a certified safe product. Point 4 - We previously had a different pistol approved by a state certified lab only to have the BOF deny the product's accessibility to the roster because we mentioned that out of state variants could use a detachable magazine. I could have sued the state (and probably won,) but I didn't have $50k sitting around to get that ball rolling. (I do now, and we are challenging the BOF on another matter currently.) I do not wish to provide the state any opportunity to exploit our legal commerce in firearms.
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www.franklinarmory.com info@franklinarmory.com ONLINE STORE: http://franklinarmory.com Franklin Armory - Manufacturer of Quality, California Legal AR's, the F17 Series rimfire rifles in 17 WSM, the Drop-in Fixed Magazine (DFM), and the CA7, CA11, and CA12 Rostered AR Pistols! |
#442
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Thank you for responding.
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I am confused about why you even went through the cost/effort to put this on roster. I don't mean to come across harsh, but many other FFL manufactures are selling a near identical configuration as yours (less the missing gas port) without going through the effort to put it on roster, and I am wondering why you guys made the effort/cost. Was it to avoid having your AR Pistol classified as a single-shot rifle and be able to classify it as this 'repeater' that people keep saying? Quote:
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Last edited by dscoduc; 01-08-2019 at 12:04 PM.. |
#443
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I'm sure we have a few CA7 owners keeping an eye on this thread. Would one of you please start an owner's thread? I've been following this thread hoping to see some user reviews and gear porn. I'm not sure we're ever going to get clarity over what's being discussed here. Let's see them pistols!
PS - @FranklinArmory, please post a live fire and field strip video! I'll gladly volunteer my time to put a couple videos together if you want to send me an evaluation sample! Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk |
#444
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dscoduc - I think you are missing the big picture here. FA has produced a legal product, nothing more. But their product has also opened a legal window for us to explore - at our own peril, as it were. What you (or I for that matter) want out of the FA7 is up to us to do our homework and decide what we are comfortable with. FA has their own battles to fight.
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Last edited by plumbum; 01-08-2019 at 1:10 PM.. |
#445
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I cannot confirm any "what ifs" with CADOJ and their approval process. You are welcome to see what they say if you submit something. I can tell you that we believed that CADOJ might not approve it if it had a gas port and that is why we went the opposite direction. It ends up we were right. The CA7 was approved as a bolt action repeater, and we believe that that was a superior place to be in the market due to the state certification. One could possibly submit a single shot pistol for testing. While that is old news, we proved that that was a legal process with the second SE-SSP submission. However, now that CADOJ has their warning information, I would not want to invest in that strategy. As a gunny, you have to admit that a bolt action repeater is superior to a single shot pistol, right? While many companies in the industry provide upgraded Glock parts, Glock does not provide much in the way of enhancements on their Gen 3 pistols. They may have spare magazines, but they certainly are not marketing lightened slides, super light triggers, threaded barrels, etc. to California buyers. I apologize for not giving you the answers that you want, but I simply can't provide that advice. I am not an attorney. The closest thing I can do is look at precedence. Thousands of Californians currently possess modified pistols. These modifications could include sights, magazines, grip panels, finish treatments, scalloping, etc. Are you aware of anyone getting cited or arrested for owning a modified firearm? I am not. However, that does not mean that the state couldn't (wrongly) decide to create a new enforcement objective.
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www.franklinarmory.com info@franklinarmory.com ONLINE STORE: http://franklinarmory.com Franklin Armory - Manufacturer of Quality, California Legal AR's, the F17 Series rimfire rifles in 17 WSM, the Drop-in Fixed Magazine (DFM), and the CA7, CA11, and CA12 Rostered AR Pistols! |
#447
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In case it wasn't obvious, nothing I write here should be interpreted as legal advice. |
#448
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An AOW would be able to use our barrels. But, you could not put a stock on it.
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www.franklinarmory.com info@franklinarmory.com ONLINE STORE: http://franklinarmory.com Franklin Armory - Manufacturer of Quality, California Legal AR's, the F17 Series rimfire rifles in 17 WSM, the Drop-in Fixed Magazine (DFM), and the CA7, CA11, and CA12 Rostered AR Pistols! |
#450
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It would cease to be an AOW and would be come an SBR.
The Can Cannon would not be an SBR because it lacks a rifled barrel.
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- Rich |
#451
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PC 17170 defines SBR as: As used in this part, “short-barreled rifle” means any of the following: (a) A rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length. (b) A rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches. (c) Any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length. (d) Any device that may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge which, when so restored, is a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive. (e) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to convert a device into a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive, may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person. In other words, an SBR must be a rifle. A rifle must send a bullet through a rifled bore. While a rifled bore isn't defined anywhere, but the dictionary and conventional definition of a "rifled bore" is a bore with spiraled grooves, not straight lands and grooves.
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In case it wasn't obvious, nothing I write here should be interpreted as legal advice. |
#453
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Sent from my moto e5 supra using Tapatalk |
#454
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My FFL received mine on Friday. 4 weeks after order! Sweet.
Was pleasantly surprised with the awesome case it came with. Spent about 30 minutes going over the firearm and its build quality in my local store. It is a gorgeous piece. I am so thrilled I pick this up. Everything feels tight and nice the trigger is smooth. The Franklin's face on a bolt carrier group was also a nice addition. I will update when I get a chance to take her to the range. To FA team. Big thanks! |
#455
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www.franklinarmory.com info@franklinarmory.com ONLINE STORE: http://franklinarmory.com Franklin Armory - Manufacturer of Quality, California Legal AR's, the F17 Series rimfire rifles in 17 WSM, the Drop-in Fixed Magazine (DFM), and the CA7, CA11, and CA12 Rostered AR Pistols! |
#457
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Unfortunately no. It would lack certification as "not unsafe." Even non-semiautomatic firearms still require drop testing. ...except for single shot bolt or break actions.
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www.franklinarmory.com info@franklinarmory.com ONLINE STORE: http://franklinarmory.com Franklin Armory - Manufacturer of Quality, California Legal AR's, the F17 Series rimfire rifles in 17 WSM, the Drop-in Fixed Magazine (DFM), and the CA7, CA11, and CA12 Rostered AR Pistols! |
#458
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The key to my understanding was the verbiage in the CA PC that specifically includes "not on roster". Since the CA7 IS on roster than even if the DOJ tried to say you manufactured a semi-auto from the CA7 it wouldn't constitute an unsafe Handgun. AR Pistols purchased from other companies don't fall under the same exemption because their pistols didn't start out as a rostered pistol... Genius really. What I can't figure out is why other companies don't take advantage of the presedence FA set and submit their AR Pistol to the CA DOJ as well... It's not like those companies don't know what will pass or not pass the safe firearm requirements... Thank you Franklin Armory. |
#460
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www.franklinarmory.com info@franklinarmory.com ONLINE STORE: http://franklinarmory.com Franklin Armory - Manufacturer of Quality, California Legal AR's, the F17 Series rimfire rifles in 17 WSM, the Drop-in Fixed Magazine (DFM), and the CA7, CA11, and CA12 Rostered AR Pistols! |
#463
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I’m counting the days leaving California.
Worked in Silicon Valley from 1986 to current. The great Tech Boom is over in CA and so am I. |
#464
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I applaud what Franklin Armory is doing here and with other products but I don't see any regulatory or statutory basis for the notion that adding a gas tube to a rostered CA7 is any different than adding a CA7 to a roster exempt single shot bolt action an FFL07 built for you. In each case, you modify a not unsafe handgun into an unsafe one. Only question is whether manufacturing or not under 32000
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In case it wasn't obvious, nothing I write here should be interpreted as legal advice. |
#465
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Please This is starting to remind me of the gold cup thread Sent from my moto e5 supra using Tapatalk |
#466
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In the past, there wasn't really much distinction between the two, but the laws changed a couple years ago resulting in the possibility that modifying a 'roster exempt' gun into a semi-automatic could be interpreted as illegal manufacturing of an unsafe handgun. There aren't legal issues with modifying a 'not unsafe' handgun into non-roster status post-purchase. |
#468
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Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk |
#470
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How's the trigger? Do you have any desire to upgrade it? Or are you the type that typically leaves your firearms stock? Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk |
#471
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Please poke some holes in my theory so i can go buy one lol, but this is my opinion. After doing a little research the answer to converting to semiauto is maybe. After reading the cadoj warning i realized they pointed us to the info PC 31900. If you put a standard upper on the ca7 i believe it violates 31900 because all rostered handguns post 2010 must have an lci, mag disconnect and microstamping. BUT if you had an upper that had those features i think we would be ok. Dont think it was a question of making it semiauto but making an unsafe semiauto lacking roster features. Someone please tell me im wrong
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#472
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If you buy a Glock 19 Gen 3 and take the slide off and put another slide on is it illegal because that other slide does not have an LCI or magazine disconnect? No it is not. I don't see any difference here
Sent from Mobile, visit us at https://www.2azone.com |
#474
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That's the corner Franklin is trying to force DOJ into.
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Originally Posted by OCEquestrian View Post Excellent! I am thinking about it as well and I only have 4 points and an unfortunate "match bump" up to expert classification where I am far less "competitive" with my peers there. |
#475
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You can legally replace any slide, cerakote, trigger or stippling to any pistol (roster or off-roster). Don't overthink it. You are not manufacturing anything if you do not have a manufacturer's license.
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#477
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No kidding that’s a great price!
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#478
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What happens when I put a 9L CORE slide assembly on my M&P9? Narrator: “Nothing. Nothing happens.” |
#479
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Got mines at $940.
Am I the only only one who thinks the finish qaulity is subpar? To me, it scream budget build. Pulling the charging handle, it's not smooth at all. Trigger is standard with a heavier pull bc they used a heavier spring for drop safe reason per FA. The lower and upper is what appears as your standard off the shelf parts. The box it came with is ummm .. quite large for it. You can fit 3 of this pistol in the box. What you're really paying for is the work FA spent on getting it on the roster, which I'm perfectly fine and happy with. Last edited by xaznperswaesonx; 01-18-2019 at 8:09 AM.. |
#480
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Sent from Mobile, visit us at https://www.2azone.com |
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