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  #1  
Old 08-09-2018, 1:34 PM
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Default NIB Colt Gold Cup at a local store...

Went to Addax Tactical (great shop btw) today to DROS a Shotgun and noticed a NIB Colt Gold Cup in the counter display. It caught me by surprise since I thought all Colt's had fallen off the roster...

Struck up a conversation with one of the employees (Addax actually employs knowledgable people that aren't full of crap) - He told me that it's an oddball little loophole...if the pistol is considered an "Olympic Pistol" it's roster exempt. Color me surprised on this one. Can anybody explain this?
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  #2  
Old 08-09-2018, 1:36 PM
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So, did you buy it?
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Old 08-09-2018, 1:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffyhog View Post
So, did you buy it?
No. $1400.00, I have too many house projects to drop that kind of coin right now. Priorities. Tempting though!
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Old 08-09-2018, 1:42 PM
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Sounds like it's about d@mn time ALL the gun companies send a single finger salute to the batsh*t crazy CA Govt and release a slew of "Olympic Pistols" that just happen to be based on their currently Off Roster stuff ("Sig P365 & P320 OLYMPIAN", Glock Gen 5 - "Olympic Shooter series"...etc.).
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Old 08-09-2018, 1:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoLoader View Post
Sounds like it's about d@mn time ALL the gun companies send a single finger salute to the batsh*t crazy CA Govt and release a slew of "Olympic Pistols" that just happen to be based on their currently Off Roster stuff ("Sig P365 & P320 OLYMPIAN", Glock Gen 5 - "Olympic Shooter series"...etc.).
That would work for a while. Until CA removes the exemption for "Olympic pistols".
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Old 08-09-2018, 1:48 PM
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That doesn't sound legit as there are mainly 22LR pistols on the Olympic Exempt Roster. What was the production date of that Colt? If it's over 50 years old, then it would be exempt.

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...s/forms/op.pdf
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Old 08-09-2018, 1:52 PM
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ALL National Match colts are considered Curio and Relic, reguardless of age, and thats why it is exempt from the roster, because it is C&R
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Old 08-09-2018, 1:55 PM
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Not all gold cup national matches are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shootsocal_dave View Post
ALL National Match colts are considered Curio and Relic, reguardless of age, and thats why it is exempt from the roster, because it is C&R
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Old 08-09-2018, 1:55 PM
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Curios or Relics List — January 1972 through April 2018

Section II — Firearms classified as curios or relics, still subject to the
provisions of 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, the Gun Control Act of 1968.

Colt, National Match semiautomatic pistols, all S/Ns, in original configuration.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/un...-2018/download
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  #10  
Old 08-09-2018, 1:57 PM
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If it was a nib gold cup thats at least 50 years old it would more then $1400.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Litespeeds View Post
That doesn't sound legit as there are mainly 22LR pistols on the Olympic Exempt Roster. What was the production date of that Colt? If it's over 50 years old, then it would be exempt.

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...s/forms/op.pdf
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  #11  
Old 08-09-2018, 1:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gimmejr View Post
If it was a nib gold cup thats at least 50 years old it would more then $1400.



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It does not need to be 50 years old to be Curio and Relic.
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  #12  
Old 08-09-2018, 2:00 PM
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A gold cup national match is not the same a national match.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shootsocal_dave View Post
Curios or Relics List — January 1972 through April 2018

Section II — Firearms classified as curios or relics, still subject to the
provisions of 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, the Gun Control Act of 1968.

Colt, National Match semiautomatic pistols, all S/Ns, in original configuration.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/un...-2018/download
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  #13  
Old 08-09-2018, 2:02 PM
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I remember when an FFL sold me a Sig 1911 Tacops not knowing it wasn’t on the roster. Didn’t say a word...
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  #14  
Old 08-09-2018, 2:04 PM
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Ok, call the ATF and get clarification for yourself.
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  #15  
Old 08-09-2018, 2:15 PM
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My clarificatiin is that no retailer is selling 50 years or newer gold cup national matches unless they are on consignment. Or what other way the original poster is talking about.
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Ok, call the ATF and get clarification for yourself.
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  #16  
Old 08-09-2018, 2:21 PM
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Regardless the OP said Addax Tactical said the Colt was exempt because of Olympic Roster Exempt. This is clearly not the case.

Depending on how the FFL determines what's on the C&R list, I am pretty sure they will be making a mistake that will pass through the DOJ without a blink. So congrats to the future buyer.
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Old 08-09-2018, 2:42 PM
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right, The OP said the knowledgeable guy at the LGS said it was Olympic exempt. Someone was wrong. You are right, it can be Consignment (PPT) and be exempt, but the National Match pistols (all inclusive, according to my ATF rep James Palm) are in fact Curio. Yea, you can google it, and see contrary, but James actually called me and told me this specifically, so I am assuming someone clarrified it. I asked him if there is anything in writing on it. You have to look how the list works, some things are UBER specific, some are more broad. I deal in mostly C&R guns, and I don't classify things C&R unless I am sure the ATF would agree!

If its NIB, than that's a good deal I think. I would love to know a SN to date it, or what box its in, blue box or wood grain.
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  #18  
Old 08-09-2018, 3:20 PM
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email back from the ATF after asking if there was anything in writing, per our conversation about Gold Cup National Match vs National Match.

"That’s it. I asked the head of our Firearms Tech Division more than once, even the new ones? I was told pretty much... what part of all National Match don’t you understand.

SIOI James Palm
ATF (Regulatory)"
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  #19  
Old 08-09-2018, 3:53 PM
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Smith & Wesson Model 52 (38 special) is also on the roster for Olympic Shooter exemption, not all are 22's.
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Old 08-09-2018, 3:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air View Post
Struck up a conversation with one of the employees (Addax actually employs knowledgable people that aren't full of crap)
Was it Daniel?
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Old 08-09-2018, 3:58 PM
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Just in case someone might be looking for an actual, published source document from ATF... https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/un...-2018/download
Quote:
Curios or Relics List — January 1972 through April 2018
Dear Collector,

The Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division (FATD) is pleased to provide you with a complete list of firearms curios or relics classifications from the previous editions of the Firearms Curios or Relics (C&R) List, ATF P 5300.11, combined with those made by FATD through April 2018. Further, we hope that this electronic edition of the Firearms Curios or Relics List, ATF P 5300.11, proves useful for providing an overview of regulations applicable to licensed collectors and ammunition classified as curios or relics. Please note that ATF is no longer publishing a hard copy of the C&R List.
Section II — Firearms classified as curios or relics, still subject to the provisions of 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, the Gun Control Act of 1968.
Pg 7:
Quote:
Colt, National Match semiautomatic pistols, all S/Ns, in original configuration.
ETA: gimmejr previously posted, “A Gold Cup National Match is not the same as a National Match”, but it still is a National Match. Today, all Gold Cups are not National Matches. https://www.colt.com/series/gold_cup_series
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Last edited by Dvrjon; 08-09-2018 at 4:15 PM..
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  #22  
Old 08-09-2018, 4:34 PM
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there IS an ATF clarification on this... I'll have to go find it. short answer, store is wrong. Only the Colt National Match made starting in the late 1920s and going until the 1960s is considered exempt from the roster (due to C&R status).

The moment they started marking the gun "Gold Cup National Match" (beginning in 1970s until now) it is not a exempt.
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Old 08-09-2018, 6:50 PM
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Hello,

Our Employee was incorrect he should have stated it is considered a C&R. It is a Colt New Production.

We have also confirmed this with the CA DOJ that the one we are selling is roster exempt, since it is considered C&R due to its original design / configuration being unchanged even though it is new production NIB.

shootsocal_dave is correct and thank you for helping to clarify.

Sorry for the confusion caused Olympic Pistol vs C&R mix up by our sales person. It was our newest team member who said Olympic and should have said C&R.

Thanks,
AT
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Old 08-09-2018, 7:52 PM
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^^^^
THANKS for clarifications.

The ffl said it is exempt. Do not argue with the FFL.

Buy it if you are there (I would have) and they are willing to Dros it for you.

It certainly beats the Galgun sales forum prices by a long shot.

Remember, ADDAX was the only shop in SF valley area that did not charge a fee during SSE.
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Old 08-09-2018, 8:36 PM
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In order to be a Curio and Relic it does not have to be 50 years old. There are pistols and rifles on the C&R list that where listed as Curio and Relics practically at the same time they were made. Look at some of the Commemorative handguns on the list such as the Smith Wesson 544, which has been on the list almost from the time it was made in 1986. The Colt Gold Cup National Match has been practically unchanged for the last 60 years. So I see no reason why it should not be considered a National Match.
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Old 08-09-2018, 8:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Addax View Post
Hello,

Our Employee was incorrect he should have stated it is considered a C&R. It is a Colt New Production.

We have also confirmed this with the CA DOJ that the one we are selling is roster exempt, since it is considered C&R due to its original design / configuration being unchanged even though it is new production NIB.

shootsocal_dave is correct and thank you for helping to clarify.

Sorry for the confusion caused Olympic Pistol vs C&R mix up by our sales person. It was our newest team member who said Olympic and should have said C&R.

Thanks,
AT
I'll take some of the blame...

Things can get misconstrued when told and retold, so there may have been some FUD spreading on my behalf as well. Regardless, it's a beautiful pistol, and I was happy to see something like that for sale...especially in this state where you almost have to be a lawyer to understand all of the laws.

That said, thanks for the clarification and thanks for running such a great shop. You along with Fort Courage in Simi are the only two shops that I gravitate toward because of your great Customer Service. Thanks!
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  #27  
Old 08-10-2018, 7:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heidad01 View Post

Buy it if you are there (I would have) and they are willing to Dros it for you.
At $1400 I woulda probably wrenched my shoulder getting to my wallet!
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  #28  
Old 08-10-2018, 8:32 AM
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Great deal.
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  #29  
Old 08-10-2018, 9:09 AM
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Hi Air

No need to take any blame.

We appreciate your business and the kind words.

Sincerely,
AT
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Old 08-10-2018, 9:13 AM
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Hi Everyone,

If anyone is interested the best way to reach us is:

Email: sales@addaxtactical.com
Phone: 818 361 5008
Store Hours: T-Fri 11am-6pm, Sat 10am-5pm

Thanks,
AT
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Old 08-10-2018, 9:19 AM
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My experience with Addax Tactical is that they are knowledgeable about telling you what you need to hear to make a sale. Then, they follow with the truth a little after that. Retail is a tough business.
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Old 08-10-2018, 11:05 AM
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Hi Guys its Lale here at Addax. We did receive another one today with more coming in next week. Sorry about the miscommunication from staff regarding the C&R or Olympic pistol. It is a C&R, we strive to do our best and stay afloat in the state and its revolving door of laws & BS. <3
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  #33  
Old 08-10-2018, 11:57 AM
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Default Somebody buy it already!

Lale plz post a picture....
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  #34  
Old 08-10-2018, 12:34 PM
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Seems to be quite a bit of conflicting info regarding the C&R status of these on the interwebs (most previous threads here and on other forums back Beetle's assertion that these are not C&R eligible).
Hope the shops selling these as C&R got something in writing from the overlords.

Last edited by apbrian112; 08-10-2018 at 12:36 PM..
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  #35  
Old 08-10-2018, 1:09 PM
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This doesn't make any sense to me, C&R is directly caused by the age of the individual firearm, not the age of the design.

Using the ATF logic posted earlier, new manufacture original spec AR, AK, or any other old design would be C&R.
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Old 08-10-2018, 1:14 PM
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Really debating whether I want to make a 60 mile drive (120 mile roundtrip) to Addax this weekend.
Been wanting a Colt 1911 for a while but despised the idea of paying the off-roster markup.
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Old 08-10-2018, 1:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AreWeFree View Post
This doesn't make any sense to me, C&R is directly caused by the age of the individual firearm, not the age of the design.

Using the ATF logic posted earlier, new manufacture original spec AR, AK, or any other old design would be C&R.
Nope, don't forget the "curio" part. New production guns considered to be collectible can be classified C&R, such as commemoratives etc. I'm not interested in that stuff so I don't have any ready examples,but I'll look some up.
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Old 08-10-2018, 2:14 PM
newbutold newbutold is offline
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Gold Cup National Match MK IV/Series 70 (MANUAL)
GOLD CUP NM (45ACP)
UPC: 098289042927
Model: Gold Cup National Match
SKU: O5870A1
The Colt Gold Cup is known as the finest shooting semi-automatic in the world, and is the standard for competitive guns. The first Colt Gold Cup pistol was introduced in the late 1950’s to give competitive shooters a gun to take directly from the dealer’s showcase to the firing line. Colt Gold Cup pistols have been used to compete in local club matches through the National Matches at Camp Perry. It features an Adjustable Wide Trigger, National Match® Barrel, Adjustable Target Sights, and many other refinements as standard.

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Old 08-10-2018, 2:39 PM
mausercat mausercat is offline
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The Colt Gold Cup National Match is the first 1911 to feature adjustable sights and was designed for competitive shooting. It has been collected by many by Colt Collectors for many years. Each one that is made is a collector's item and thus the ATF has classified it as a Curio and Relic. Whenever a 1911 has a horsey, especially a National Match they fly out of the gun store quickly. Colt is always going broke and you never know when they will stop production and be bought out by a lawnmower company who will stop production of current models.
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Old 08-10-2018, 6:45 PM
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AreWeFree AreWeFree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewN View Post
Nope, don't forget the "curio" part. New production guns considered to be collectible can be classified C&R, such as commemoratives etc. I'm not interested in that stuff so I don't have any ready examples,but I'll look some up.
thanks that makes sense.
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