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California handguns Discuss your favorite California handgun technical and related questions here. |
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#1
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Carry without a round in a chamber = FAIL
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=086_1260862712
Watch the video. A unloaded gun will do you NO GOOD when you NEED IT. Without a round in the chamber you are carrying a unloaded gun. To do otherwise would be to carry a paperweight. Defensive shootings happen in seconds, you most likely will NOT have time to rack the slide or you remember to rack the slide.
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Any gun owner who does not support the NRA is a freeloader. |
#2
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I wish california considered that unloaded. |
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Agreed with above statements. I must also disagree with the first aid administered to the victim by the bystanders.
Though... If the victim had more training or at least more experience carrying a firearm,(which i can't say he didn't), in my own personal opinion things would not have turned out the way they did. Of course my statements are open to criticism. |
#5
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One day I went into a bait shop to get some things to go fishing and a customer was open carrying. There was an off duty LEO asking him if the gun was loaded and the guy said it's an empty magazine in the gun and the LEO just left it at that and left. I was just thinking to myself that since the gun is out in the open and everyone can see he is carrying. A bad guy can just approach him with no warning and attack him or shoot him without notice. You can carry conceal while fishing as long as it's transported legally to the fishing spot so why not just do that? Guess he just wanted to reserve his right to bear arms and show everyone his H&K .
Sorry to thread jack but yes defensive shooting happens fast. It's not like the bad guy is going to say "hey, I'm going to come in and rob the store and get ready. Okay?" |
#6
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The one time I had need for my gun to confront an intruder, I racked the slide to load the round and went to work. No problem.
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Come and Take It! I'm the only hell my momma ever raised ... |
#7
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And we have all seen that thread where the gentleman shot himself in the drive-thru with his holstered weapon. I'm guessing it was a Glock that did not even have a slide safety. And he's carrying it around loaded in a drive thru. Great.
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Come and Take It! I'm the only hell my momma ever raised ... |
#8
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And I agree 100% with OP. Last edited by erikdjs; 04-07-2011 at 5:57 AM.. |
#9
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There's no such thing as one size fits all. Blanket statements most often reveal the holes in the blanket before they begin to cover all aspects. Because human abilities & psyche's are so extraordinarily different one must determine what is best for self under all imaginable
circumstances. Self defense is a complex matter of armament, training & psychology. The first part is to be able in willingness, that all the psychology of 'Should I and would I?' is fully settled beforehand. The second is suitable armament, with that as readily available as the person wants it to be. The third is frequent training, so that actions of use are skillfully automatic, not semi-automatic. The fourth, after the first three, is to be observant in all situations, to remove factors of surprise and unpreparedness. The fifth is ongoing adaptability to changing circumstances. The sixth is to mold these into an enjoyable lifestyle not overwhelmed or obsessed with matters of personal defense, yet continuously ready, willing & able to take care of business regardless of the customer. That is, it should be a matter of sober, rational and total preparedness causing peace of mind and continuous safety to the best of one's ability, rather than an obssession, or paranoia or a hero syndrome. This I've stated isn't meant to imply that anyone here is laboring under those last three delusions, but is simply my view on the way of it. Our ability to defend ourselves, should the need arise, should not entirely overthrow or even significantly alter the normal enjoyment of life in all its moments. Some folks can draw - slam in a mag - rack the slide - acquire their target - shoot dead-center quicker than I can draw, thumb off a safety and fire on target, so it's different strokes for different folks, according to circumstances. |
#10
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revolvers are simple
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NO ISSUE / MAY ISSUE / SHALL ISSUE - LTC progress over time since 1986 |
#11
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Epic FAIL.
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"The police cannot protect the citizen at this stage of our development, and they cannot even protect themselves in many cases. It is up to the private citizen to protect himself and his family, and this is not only acceptable, but mandatory" Jeff Cooper |
#14
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It's not totally clear what happened, except that he did not have is gun on him, had to go to the counter and make it ready, whether it was ready or not already, and is facing the wrong direction. He was not experienced with that weapon, and clearly had no weapon retention training. Fortunately the BG(s) didn't get good hits either. Actually he would have better off with an edged weapon (and training).
But, loading Israel style doesn't have to be slow, you need to know how to do it, and do it quickly. There is no substitute for speed and accuracy. I am not saying this is faster that running a loaded gun, however there are many competitors who can rack load it, put 2 holes in center mass at 10 yards before the untrained shooter even touches his gun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqyxP...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7stL...eature=related |
#15
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We in Bangor, Maine now baby. |
#17
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Highlander, those video's are cool. I wonder if they had to install weaker springs to be able to do that?
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The left - "You don't need guns. Police will protect you." Also The Left - "Police are racist and evil and we need to disband them." |
#18
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Holy Trolltastic!!! |
#19
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And we have all seen that thread where the gentleman shot himself in the drive-thru with his holstered weapon
Yes it was a Glock, but not a gun problem, it was a holster problem, which is a shooter problem. |
#20
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Kinda freaky when I think about it.
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#21
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yes
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#22
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http://https://www.calguns.net/calgu...4#post25082924 Bersa Thunder .380 Auto For Sale: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...d.php?t=489111 Romeo 4T and DPMS Upper for Sale: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1417379 https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1624850 |
#24
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I've had to pull my weapon and there was no round in chamber. It was at a residence so circumstances were different. Out and about it would be more effective to have one in the chamber, but regardless of carry, training and practice are required
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#25
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#26
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Never had to fire though. The crackheads I encountered were rather submissive.
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http://https://www.calguns.net/calgu...4#post25082924 Bersa Thunder .380 Auto For Sale: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...d.php?t=489111 Romeo 4T and DPMS Upper for Sale: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1417379 https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1624850 |
#28
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I wasn't talking about having any permit...
I'm just glad I'm intelligent enough to know that even if he did say " go ahead and carry your weapon loaded without a permit" doesn't mean that I can. I'm from Oakland, where people have lots of chances to train in situations like those...nothin like live fire to get the adrenaline pumping...
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http://https://www.calguns.net/calgu...4#post25082924 Bersa Thunder .380 Auto For Sale: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...d.php?t=489111 Romeo 4T and DPMS Upper for Sale: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1417379 https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1624850 |
#29
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In the Marine Corps, yes I did, and took return fire as well....and this was a "peace time" mission. The fact is an unloaded weapon is not a weapon and leaves someone wide open to a first strike...which is why I wouldn't open carry...someone like that is a sitting duck for bad guys...I'd much rather CCW and bad guys think I'm a victim...element of suprise would be on my side...however, in that video, the perps seemed to know the target was armed and shot him immediately...and when that happens, adrenaline is up and we're ALL at 50% capacity and he had to targets with guns...bad situation no matter what, but if he had a round chambered, he could've gotten a round or two off and maybe got the perps instead of them taking his gun away...or they may have continued firing..not exactly a win-win for anyone...either way, he was going to get shot in that scenario.
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#30
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"Any unarmed people are slaves, or are subject to slavery at any given moment." - Dr. Huey P. Newton |
#31
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Agreed 100%. we need to train regularly for muscle memory, because adrenaline and shock has a way of messing up logic so we have to rely on learned response.
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#32
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Oh either way, UOC is pointless because some guy can just whoop your *** with a stick and steal your expensive belt accesory. Thats why I wouldnt carry my gun in public at all. Diclaimer: Although if I lived in a rough part of town, I would carry my gun loaded and safety's off at my own place/work if permitted.
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Молон Лабе I'd rather be carried by 6 than judged by 12 Last edited by PandaLuv; 04-07-2011 at 8:57 AM.. |
#34
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I choose to carry my handgun chambered, with the safety engaged, wherever it makes sense to me to do so . This is quite a bit of the time. I am not all ashamed to say that I also carry un-chambered as I see fit, and as I believe the circumstances reasonably dictate. Similary, there are circumstances where it's in a bag without a mag inserted. My general position is that one should carry to the maximum condition of readiness they require to insure an effective use of the weapon, given the circumstances and their level of training. Some people would be foolish to carry cocked-n-locked, others unwise to ever be anything else. I train often enough alongside shooters of all kinds of differing backgrounds (including SWAT cops and SF-types) to know that an un-chambered handgun in not necessarily a liability. I've often drawn to a "click" (owing to a dummy-round randomly loaded in the mag) during some exercise. I've been both surprised and delighted to learn that Draw-Click-Tap-Rack-Bang can happen very quickly with practice ... even when you aren't expecting it ... and I've completed my round of accurate shots well ahead of those trained professionals with perfectly functioning guns. My shot timer tells me that the difference between Draw-Bang and Draw-Rack-Bang is hundredths of a second. Tell me that an "unloaded gun is useless", and I'll laugh in your silly, silly face.
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| I don't pretend to be an "authority." I'm just a guy who trains a lot, shoots a lot and has a perspective. Check the ZombieTactics Channel on YouTube for all sorts of gun-related goodness CLICK HERE Last edited by ZombieTactics; 04-07-2011 at 9:21 AM.. |
#35
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Basically, I was inferring that RollingCode3 was advocating Permitless Loaded Carry(either concealed or not)......it was a joke. I also think UOC is dumb, and only for macho wanna be mall ninjas. It's sorta like a book club for guys with guns, to me. I've never seen anyone open carry in an area where their safety was compromised, only in areas that scare soccer moms. On the flipside, it sucks that the state would relegate our rights to such a condition. I do carry a pistol loaded at home. I'm not permitted to do so anywhere else.
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http://https://www.calguns.net/calgu...4#post25082924 Bersa Thunder .380 Auto For Sale: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...d.php?t=489111 Romeo 4T and DPMS Upper for Sale: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1417379 https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1624850 |
#36
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Once or twice in Afghanistan...
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#37
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MHogxtz I wonder if they had to install weaker springs to be able to do that?
I thought that at first, but had one of the local Grand Masters do it on my stock G17, yea, pretty amazing. there is another one where an IPSC guy does a sub 1 load (from the belt) and put 2 in the A zone at 7 yards with an STI Open gun. |
#39
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I noticed the people doing the inertia cocking gimmick weren't being shot at.
Not that I'm any real authority on this, but my educated guess is that such cocking in a defensive situation might be more of a liability. It seems kinda dumb to do this considering that one can safely carry one in the pipe with most modern handguns.
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#40
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I can definitely agree on with the rest of what you just said.
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Молон Лабе I'd rather be carried by 6 than judged by 12 |
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