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  #1  
Old 01-05-2018, 2:21 AM
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Default 50bmg to 510dtc Conversion Legal

Hello All,

I've done some searching, but not much has turned up.

I am planning to purchase a EDM Windrunner that is currently chambered in 50BMG.

I will be purchasing a 510DTC barrel to replace the 50BMG barrel turning the rifle into 510DTC.

The question is since the receiver is stamped 50BMG, is the rifle still legal in California even though it will no longer accept 50BMG rounds?
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  #2  
Old 01-05-2018, 11:37 AM
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The barrel will be marked also.
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  #3  
Old 01-05-2018, 12:38 PM
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It won't be legal to transfer to a CA resident until after the 510 DTC conversion.
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Old 01-05-2018, 2:56 PM
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The CA 50BMG ban is specific to RIFLES.
It is important to know the difference between a firearm and a rifle.
Firearms come in many different configurations.
A Rifle is just ONE configuration of firearm.
Rifles are shoulder fired and have barrels 16" or longer.
Some other forms of firearms include pistols, revolvers, shotguns, short barreled rifles, machine guns and a special category they use to lump other firearms into that don't fall into the most common configurations is the "any other weapon".

A receiver without a stock or barrel is NOT a rifle and therefore, it's no problem to have or transfer a 50BMG receiver as long as it's NOT a rifle.

It's pretty easy to remove the stock and barrel from a windrunner and transfer the receiver.

Last edited by ar15barrels; 01-05-2018 at 2:59 PM..
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Old 01-05-2018, 3:01 PM
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True but if it comes into the state as a rifle or pistol it must remain so. Ive run into this issue many times with the TC Encore. There are federal regs also. Cant change one to the other in most cases regardless of its current configuration.
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Old 01-05-2018, 3:58 PM
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Don't people buy stripped AR lowers all the time? Seems like the same thing to me. Or, iirc the Windrunner is a take-down, and he can just tote the barrel with him to the gun shop. He can change the BMG to a DTC in a matter of seconds.
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Old 01-05-2018, 4:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
the Windrunner is a take-down, and he can just tote the barrel with him to the gun shop.
He can change the BMG to a DTC in a matter of seconds.
Yes.
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Old 01-06-2018, 11:08 AM
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Yes what Randall is pointing out is that without the barrel installed its just a rifle waiting for its "chamber" and can be imported into CA. Im just making the clarification that you cant cut the buttstock off and throw a short barrel on it and turn it into a pistol. Same with stripped AR lowers.
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  #9  
Old 01-06-2018, 12:43 PM
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California's .50 BMG law is very narrowly written to cover just the .50 BMG cartridge. The definition does not use the terminology ".50 Caliber" nor does it use the term "BMG" or "Browning." The cartridge is defined by it's dimensions. Please refer to Penal Code section 30525.

Those dimensions (quite by design) correlate perfectly to the .50 BMG cartridge. But it's important to note that only rifles chambered for a round of those dimensions are illegal. That's an important distinction when it comes to your barrel and receiver markings. They do not necessarily indicate that the rifle is illegal. It's the cartridge dimensions that count.

The downside is that the ".50 BMG" markings would provide a LEO with probable cause to arrest. For that reason, it would be wise for your rifle to be devoid of any such markings.

The .510 DTC is legal. The dimensions of that cartridge are different than those in PC 30525.

As previous posters have pointed out, only "Rifles" that fire cartiridges having the dimensions contained in PC 30525 are illegal.
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Old 01-11-2018, 4:10 PM
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Thanks for all the info gents!
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Old 01-11-2018, 4:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firefly416 View Post
It won't be legal to transfer to a CA resident until after the 510 DTC conversion.
Wrong. It can be transferred once it is not a 50BMG rifle. That is accomplished by just removing the barrel.
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  #12  
Old 01-11-2018, 4:48 PM
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In CA, if you are buying a complete rifle, I'd buy a 416 Barrett and get a 510 DTC barrel. Then, you are able to shoot both cartridges. Otherwise, if the 50 BMG barrel is not warn out or too short, it can be cut and re-chambered. I just don't like the idea of paying for a barrel you know you want use so the price needs to be good enough to justify it. There is nothing cheap about 50 cal barrels.
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Old 01-11-2018, 9:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMP View Post
There is nothing cheap about 50 cal barrels.
And who is gonna make the barrel for a Windrunner in 50DTC ?

That's the reason why I dropped my idea to get one . . .
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  #14  
Old 01-11-2018, 9:45 PM
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It's not a question of whether or not you can have a local gunsmith do the barrel work. It's a matter of how much are you willing to pay. I have also read that Bill's son (Vigilance Rifles Inc.) will continue to support the windrunner; however, I have not called and verified this as I still have an extra barrel sitting in one of the safes. When the time comes, I am sure I can find a local gunsmith that can spin me one up if Vigilance no longer services these rifles.

Last edited by Hairball; 01-11-2018 at 11:20 PM..
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  #15  
Old 01-11-2018, 10:09 PM
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Have you called Bill to see if he can add multiple or add DTC to the receiver?
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:18 PM
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Bill...as in Bill Ritchie at EDM. Bill passed away in November of 2016 and so ended EDM Arms. If that is the "Bill" you are talking about.
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Old 01-12-2018, 2:35 PM
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The question is will there be an FFL that will ship the receiver sans stock and barrel to you to DROS here in California. Then ship the rest of the gun to you.
I went with the DTC windrunner myself after the ban was already in place. My understanding is the rifle has to be in complete assembled configuration in order for it to meet PC criteria. And I couldn't figure out anything that would make owning the gun illegal in California. Both the barrel and the receiver will have caliber markings on it. And if I remember correctly the BMG windrunner will have .50BMG on the barrel and receiver. So that could be cause for violation of the PC code but only as a assembled rifle. If the gun is in the take down and disassembled configuration my understanding is that it wouldn't be considered a rifle and just parts.
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Old 01-12-2018, 6:17 PM
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Have the seller remove the original 50 BMG barrel from the rifle and post it up for sale on E-Bay so you recoup some of the money.
A new blank runs $700 from Kreiger and Bartlein. You can get one from K-P barrels for less money but remember they charge a separate contouring fee to match it up to your original barrel.
A good gunsmith will charge more than normal for the install as well.
Maybe find out what Randall would charge you and factor that in to your E-Bay barrel.
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Old 01-12-2018, 6:29 PM
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Can't he just get the original barrel rechambered?
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
Can't he just get the original barrel rechambered?
It may or may not be possible depending on the barrel profile and how it attaches to the receiver. I've never bothered to inspect exactly how the barrel gets attached to the receiver.
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingair001 View Post
And who is gonna make the barrel for a Windrunner in 50DTC ?

That's the reason why I dropped my idea to get one . . .
I would imagine the same places that install all the 50 DTC barrels. I don't have a Windrunner, and I know they have an oddball connection, but I don't see why a good machinist with the right tools wouldn't be able to fit a barrel. As I have said, there is no path to an inexpensive barrel.
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMP View Post
As I have said, there is no path to an inexpensive barrel.
Keary will whisper $ 3,500.00 in your ear . . . .


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Old 01-13-2018, 12:46 PM
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The 510 is a little bit shorter than 50 so you would need to set the barrel back a small amount.
Most gunsmiths would charge just as much to set one back as to chamber up a new one and a new custom barrel shoots so much better than any factory barrel it might not be worth while.
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Old 01-13-2018, 1:30 PM
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Here are a few pics of how these come together:

This is what you see when you unscrew the retainer



The small slot is used to index the barrel. On the barrel you will see the pin that slides into this slot and when tightened down it sets proper headspace.




Last edited by Hairball; 01-13-2018 at 1:32 PM..
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Old 01-13-2018, 2:02 PM
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That's what I thought. If you take +0.100" off the back of the barrel you would have to reset head space (not a big deal), re time the muzzle threads for the muzzle brake and, the biggest concern would be either trimming the barrel nut to fit the shorter breach ring (or whatever it is called) which would weaken the connection between the barrel and receiver or, manufacture a spacer ring, remove the barrel nut and slip the spacer down the barrel before replacing the barrel nut. This would still weaken the barrel to receiver connection but, if it is properly press fitted or maybe welded (and then reheat treated) it MIGHT work fine.
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Old 01-13-2018, 2:12 PM
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In addition to overall length differences, the DTC utilizes an 18.5 degree shoulder while the BMG shoulder is set at 15 degrees. Additionally, a 510 DTC EUROP case is .760 diameter at the top of the shoulder while the BMG is smaller at .715 inch.
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Old 01-14-2018, 8:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMP View Post
In CA, if you are buying a complete rifle, I'd buy a 416 Barrett and get a 510 DTC barrel. Then, you are able to shoot both cartridges. Otherwise, if the 50 BMG barrel is not warn out or too short, it can be cut and re-chambered. I just don't like the idea of paying for a barrel you know you want use so the price needs to be good enough to justify it. There is nothing cheap about 50 cal barrels.
Someone out there is doing Barrett 50DTC barrels?
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Old 01-14-2018, 8:40 PM
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Someone out there is doing Barrett 50DTC barrels?
I know someone who was planning to but, I think family issues have got the best of him and he hasn't been able to start doing AR50s and Barretts yet.
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Old 01-15-2018, 3:03 PM
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Thanks for all the reply gents!

I talked to Keary and Will order one of his new M18 in a 510DTC flavour.

I already have the EDM Windrunner 510DTC barrel, so I guess I will maybe try picking up a Windrunner down the road or just sell the barrel.
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Old 01-15-2018, 5:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halcyon0 View Post
Thanks for all the reply gents!

I talked to Keary and Will order one of his new M18 in a 510DTC flavour.

I already have the EDM Windrunner 510DTC barrel, so I guess I will maybe try picking up a Windrunner down the road or just sell the barrel.
Post some pics when you got it !

How long will it take ?

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Old 01-15-2018, 5:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairball View Post
Here are a few pics of how these come together:

This is what you see when you unscrew the retainer



The small slot is used to index the barrel. On the barrel you will see the pin that slides into this slot and when tightened down it sets proper headspace.



What does the back of the barrel look like?
Does the barrel have locking lugs in it or are the locking lugs in the receiver?
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Old 01-15-2018, 6:32 PM
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Randall
Back of the barrel and the bolt pushed up against it.
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File Type: jpg 16976.jpg (7.4 KB, 41 views)
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Old 01-15-2018, 8:22 PM
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Will def post pics as soon as I get it. Keary said about 4-5 months from now.
He will debut it at the Shot Show coming up.
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Old 01-15-2018, 8:40 PM
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Only spoke once to Keary
And it stayed that way

Otherwise you can grab the M14 !
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Old 01-15-2018, 8:56 PM
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Sigh....I wish that I could, but the price of the M14 is a lot more than the M18 and the wife will never allow that!
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Old 01-15-2018, 9:02 PM
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Sigh....I wish that I could, but the price of the M14 is a lot more than the M18 and the wife will never allow that!
Don't tell her

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Old 01-15-2018, 9:06 PM
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Hahahaha...Unfortunately it's all from the same bucket.

A happy wife is a happy life!
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Old 01-15-2018, 9:09 PM
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Hahahaha...Unfortunately it's all from the same bucket.

A happy wife is a happy life!
Buy her a Louis Vuitton

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