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Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun!

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  #1  
Old 02-04-2020, 6:14 AM
Starslinger Starslinger is offline
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Default C&R semi-auto 9mm?

What are the older 9mm rifles/carbines that might be available in semi-auto as old stock, reproductions or parts kits? I'm especially interested in anything that has a wooden stock and looks old school or interesting. Thanks for any info!
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  #2  
Old 02-04-2020, 6:23 AM
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You might be interested in the Marlin Camp Carbine.

https://www.gunbroker.com/All/search...lin%20camp%209
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  #3  
Old 02-04-2020, 6:28 AM
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1985-1999. Production.
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Old 02-04-2020, 7:19 AM
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I have a Camp Carbine for sale with several OEM mags on Gunboards. For some reason nobody wants it even though it is like-new and priced way lower than those on Gunbroker.
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Old 02-04-2020, 10:59 AM
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I don't believe there are any C&R 9mm Parabellum rifles or carbines...

The closest would probably be a Spanish 9mm Largo "Destroyer" carbine. But not all of the "Destroyers" are C&R's as some are not yet 50 years old. So you have to check the serial number against the year of production.

Check here for DOM.
https://www.9mm-largo.com/destroy/index.htm

They look like this.
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Old 02-04-2020, 11:34 AM
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Suomi M31 by TNW?
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  #7  
Old 02-04-2020, 12:17 PM
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Suomi M31 by TNW?
It wouldn't be a C&R. Only original firearms can be C&R's. Copies or reproductions are not eligible.
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Old 02-04-2020, 2:45 PM
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Not C&R but an original Ruger Police Carbine (not newer takedown model) is a great gun. I have one and it's great. Uses Ruger P95 mags. The went out of production about 20 years ago. Another possibility is Ruger .44 mag semi-auto from 60s and 70s. I sold one a couple of years ago and older ones would qualify as C&R for shipment into the state.
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Old 02-04-2020, 4:09 PM
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When it comes to pistol caliber carbines it's hard to beat an original M1 30 Carbine. I have a 1944 Underwood in excellent condition that was given to me years ago by a relative. It is a lot of fun to shoot.
I'm not sure about the newer replicas but the originals can be costly depending on condition. I've read that there were over 6 million made by several companies during WWII.
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Old 02-04-2020, 8:34 PM
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Hmm...I thought there would be more. Like semi auto versions of submachine guns such as the PPSh-41 and that type of thing. I'd be interested in learning the names of some more 9mm guns even if they technically aren't C&R eligible.
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Old 02-04-2020, 9:49 PM
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After doing a few searchers using different wording I couldn't find any older 9mm carbines.
I did find a Chiappa M1-9 which is a clone of the M1 Carbine. It's chambered in 9mm and uses Beretta 92 magazines. It also has a wooden stock.

https://www.chiappafirearms.com/product.php?id=202
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Old 02-05-2020, 12:14 AM
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AFAIK, C&R semi-auto only rifles chambered in 9x19mm:
Beretta Model 1918-30 (C&R SBR)
Mauser M1917 Trench Carbine (C&R SBR)


Note, that both of the above rifles are illegal in CA due to violating CA assault weapons laws. [PC 30515(a)(3)]
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Last edited by Quiet; 02-05-2020 at 12:37 AM..
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Old 02-05-2020, 2:11 AM
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Fortunately the Chiappa M1-9 is California legal. It's a nice little rifle and it sells for around $550. I'm already a fan of the M1 Carbine design so it wouldn't take much to talk myself into one of these.
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Old 02-11-2020, 5:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeBee49 View Post
Fortunately the Chiappa M1-9 is California legal. It's a nice little rifle and it sells for around $550. I'm already a fan of the M1 Carbine design so it wouldn't take much to talk myself into one of these.
Reviews I read on the Chiappa M1-9 weren't favorable, otherwise I'd probably already own this one. I like the way it looks very much.
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Old 02-11-2020, 6:35 AM
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Reviews I read on the Chiappa M1-9 weren't favorable, otherwise I'd probably already own this one. I like the way it looks very much.
I didn't know that. I didn't read any reviews, I just checked out their website.
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeBee49 View Post
Fortunately the Chiappa M1-9 is California legal. It's a nice little rifle and it sells for around $550. I'm already a fan of the M1 Carbine design so it wouldn't take much to talk myself into one of these.
Mine was a total hunk of junk. Iver Johnson made a 9mm M1 Carbine that takes Browning High Power magazines but I've never even seen one in person that I remember.
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Old 02-13-2020, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
AFAIK, C&R semi-auto only rifles chambered in 9x19mm:
Beretta Model 1918-30 (C&R SBR)
Mauser M1917 Trench Carbine (C&R SBR)


Note, that both of the above rifles are illegal in CA due to violating CA assault weapons laws. [PC 30515(a)(3)]
I thought you could get a C&R SBR in CA? Is that for bolt action only?
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  #18  
Old 02-13-2020, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeBee49 View Post
When it comes to pistol caliber carbines it's hard to beat an original M1 30 Carbine. I have a 1944 Underwood in excellent condition that was given to me years ago by a relative. It is a lot of fun to shoot.
I'm not sure about the newer replicas but the originals can be costly depending on condition. I've read that there were over 6 million made by several companies during WWII.
The M1 Carbine was probably not an ideal WW2 combat rifle for a number of reasons. But in 2020 it is quite handy as a small and light carbine with better than handgun ballistics, low recoil, and high reliability, at least with USGI versions.
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Old 02-13-2020, 2:44 PM
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The M1 Carbine was probably not an ideal WW2 combat rifle for a number of reasons. But in 2020 it is quite handy as a small and light carbine with better than handgun ballistics, low recoil, and high reliability, at least with USGI versions.
There were more M1 Carbines produced during WWII (6 mil +) than Garands (4 mil +). This was the intended use of the M1 Carbine:

"The M1 Carbine was normally issued to personnel who might see combat in supporting roles, tank drivers, some supply truck drivers, etc. The carbine had a smaller diameter bullet, more of a pistol round, but had a larger ammunition clip and was considered, in most ways, a better weapon than a .45 caliber M1911 pistol."

My Dad was in a tank unit in France and Belgium. He was in the recon squad which ran point for the tank column. The squad consisted of about a dozen men in a jeep and a half track. My Dad drove the half track and was issued an M1 Carbine.
It's interesting to note that the M1 Carbine was carried by a number of Marines fighting in the Pacific. Maybe the lighter weight and the ability to carry more ammo was the reason.
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Old 02-13-2020, 3:16 PM
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Originally Posted by morrcarr67 View Post
I thought you could get a C&R SBR in CA? Is that for bolt action only?
There is no C&R exemption to CA assault weapons laws.

Those C&R SBR are legal under CA SBR/SBS laws [PC 17705(a)], but illegal under CA assault weapons laws due to being a semi-auto centerfire rifle with an overall length of less than 30" [PC 30515(a)(3)].

Because of the CA assault weapons laws, C&R SBR would be limited to manually operated (bolt/lever/pump) repeating rifles and single-shot rifles.
^C&R SBR that is semi-auto would need it's overall length permanently altered to be 30" or greater. IMO, welding on a barrel extension would ruin it's C&R value.
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Last edited by Quiet; 02-13-2020 at 3:19 PM..
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  #21  
Old 02-14-2020, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeBee49 View Post
There were more M1 Carbines produced during WWII (6 mil +) than Garands (4 mil +). This was the intended use of the M1 Carbine:

"The M1 Carbine was normally issued to personnel who might see combat in supporting roles, tank drivers, some supply truck drivers, etc. The carbine had a smaller diameter bullet, more of a pistol round, but had a larger ammunition clip and was considered, in most ways, a better weapon than a .45 caliber M1911 pistol."

My Dad was in a tank unit in France and Belgium. He was in the recon squad which ran point for the tank column. The squad consisted of about a dozen men in a jeep and a half track. My Dad drove the half track and was issued an M1 Carbine.
It's interesting to note that the M1 Carbine was carried by a number of Marines fighting in the Pacific. Maybe the lighter weight and the ability to carry more ammo was the reason.
Indeed it was more of a support oriented weapon, although there is plenty of evidence of it being used as a front line weapon as well. I recall reading about the M1 carbine being used as a LE / SWAT type entry gun well into the 1970's. Sort of a bonus that it is one of the funnest long guns for all ages to plink and shoot recreationally with as well.
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Old 02-14-2020, 1:38 PM
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As I mentioned, I have a 1944 Underwood and it is a lot of fun to shoot. Years ago when there was still an outdoor range nearby my boys loved shooting it but I had to slow them down because the ammo wasn't that cheap.

I've read that when the US sent advisers to Viet Nam they supplied M1 Carbines to the Vietnamese due to their smaller stature.
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Old 02-14-2020, 3:25 PM
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Since there aren't any C&R 9mm carbines why not just get a Ruger PCC in 9mm? Uses Glock mags and it isn't an evil assault weapon.
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Old 02-15-2020, 7:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith1911 View Post
Since there aren't any C&R 9mm carbines why not just get a Ruger PCC in 9mm? Uses Glock mags and it isn't an evil assault weapon.
I have the Ruger PCC in 9mm. It's an excellent gun - I just don't like the look of it.
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Old 02-15-2020, 8:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeBee49 View Post
When it comes to pistol caliber carbines it's hard to beat an original M1 30 Carbine. I have a 1944 Underwood in excellent condition that was given to me years ago by a relative. It is a lot of fun to shoot.
I'm not sure about the newer replicas but the originals can be costly depending on condition. I've read that there were over 6 million made by several companies during WWII.
OMG you guys gave me the answer I was looking for but I didn't realize it until now! I had the .30 caliber confused with the 30-30. I will check out the M1 and the .30 caliber immediately!
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Old 02-16-2020, 7:20 AM
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Tnw suomi is a tank. I don't know if they still sell the kits, but if you want a twenty pound 9mm, that is steel and wood, and old(ish-not c&r) that would be the ticket.

Kits used to be real cheap, but the tnw was more expensive because they already had all the hard work done to them to make them not fully auto.

Plus, they "takedown" which is a feature I'm a sucker for!
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Old 02-17-2020, 2:13 AM
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Quiet- if there is a c&r sbr exemption for barrel length, the 1918/30 would be good to go.
Overall length is over 40".

I had a chance to buy one in the 90s, couldn't afford it then. It was cheap at the time (maybe 1-1.5k), but it may as well have been 10 grand.. couldn't afford it either way.
And god help you if you break or lose a magazine.

-Dave
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Old 02-17-2020, 3:40 AM
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Quote:
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Quiet- if there is a c&r sbr exemption for barrel length, the 1918/30 would be good to go.
Overall length is over 40".

I had a chance to buy one in the 90s, couldn't afford it then. It was cheap at the time (maybe 1-1.5k), but it may as well have been 10 grand.. couldn't afford it either way.
And god help you if you break or lose a magazine.

-Dave
I was lead to believe that the overall length of the Beretta 1918/30 was 28".
If that is incorrect and the overall length is over 30", then it would be CA legal.

AFAIK... current price on them is $4500-6500 depending on condition and accessories.
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