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Concealed Carry Discussion General discussion regarding CCW/LTC in California

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  #1  
Old 09-16-2020, 11:46 AM
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Default Handgun Capacity for EDC Guns

I generally carry a 5-shot .38 Special revolver or an 8+1 Shield for EDC. I use the 8 round magazines only because it has a pinky rest where the 7 round magazines do not. I also have a G36 (6+1) on my license and don't have a problem with this capacity.

I see lots of interest in higher capacity carry guns such as the Sig 365. I'm not sure I understand why. I have a G19 with 15 round magazine on my license but almost never carry it. Too large and very heavy (high cap adds a lot of weight to the firearm).

This leads me to a question: Are there instances where more than five rounds are really necessary to neutralize a lethal threat? I don't mean one here and one there, I mean are there enough instances to justify packing hi-cap guns or extra speed loaders or magazines?

In my experience, I read of only a few shots (if any) are fired. Mostly, just the presentation of the carry gun stops the threat (something like 10:1 to shots fired).

Opinions?

Dan
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:25 PM
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I think I remember from Judge Benitez's ruling he reasoned that greater than ten round magazines are necessary for self defense. He cited some instances as well.
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bergmen View Post
Are there instances where more than five rounds are really necessary to neutralize a lethal threat?
Tell you one thing, if it takes 6 rounds, you're screwed.
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:36 PM
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I think I remember from Judge Benitez's ruling he reasoned that greater than ten round magazines are necessary for self defense. He cited some instances as well.
I can certainly see that for HD scenarios (which I have relegated my G19 with std cap mags), but just not sure of EDC situations.

Dan
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by bergmen View Post
I generally carry a 5-shot .38 Special revolver or an 8+1 Shield for EDC. I use the 8 round magazines only because it has a pinky rest where the 7 round magazines do not. I also have a G36 (6+1) on my license and don't have a problem with this capacity.

I see lots of interest in higher capacity carry guns such as the Sig 365. I'm not sure I understand why. I have a G19 with 15 round magazine on my license but almost never carry it. Too large and very heavy (high cap adds a lot of weight to the firearm).

This leads me to a question: Are there instances where more than five rounds are really necessary to neutralize a lethal threat? I don't mean one here and one there, I mean are there enough instances to justify packing hi-cap guns or extra speed loaders or magazines?

In my experience, I read of only a few shots (if any) are fired. Mostly, just the presentation of the carry gun stops the threat (something like 10:1 to shots fired).

Opinions?

Dan


You only need ONE INSTANCE where it’s necessary to have a dire need

Never heard someone complain they had leftover bullets after an event. You ever notice, at the range, how quickly that 8-shot Shield locks back to empty? Let alone a 5-shot revolver.

Do you watch the news much these days? Violent protesters aren’t solo. Home invasions don’t limit themselves to one intruder. Both of these groups carry firearms nowadays, too. Drug-infused mental cases sometimes walk right through multiple rounds. Are you going to take the chance one of these guys reaches your side?

Yeah. you might only need presentation....you might only need one round. But.....maybe not.

FWIW, I carry the same G19.5 full capacity you shun....and I’m 5’9”, 145 lbs.


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Old 09-16-2020, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by PartyBarge View Post
Tell you one thing, if it takes 6 rounds, you're screwed.
Yes, but are there documented cases that support this? I just have not read of many (very few actually).

Dan
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:41 PM
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:41 PM
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What’s your body type?

I agree the G19 May take more to conceal but with the right clothes, I can pull it off and I’m not a big tall guy whatsoever.
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erion929 View Post
You only need ONE INSTANCE where it’s necessary to have a dire need

Never heard someone complain they had leftover bullets after an event. You ever notice, at the range, how quickly that 8-shot Shield locks back to empty? Let alone a 5-shot revolver.

Do you watch the news much these days? Violent protesters aren’t solo. Home invasions don’t limit themselves to one intruder. Both of these groups carry firearms nowadays, too. Drug-infused mental cases sometimes walk right through multiple rounds. Are you going to take the chance one of these guys reaches your side?

Yeah. you might only need presentation....you might only need one round. But.....maybe not.

FWIW, I carry the same G19.5 full capacity you shun....and I’m 5’9”, 145 lbs.
.
Well, we live in rural California and have not encountered any of the scenarios you mention here. We don't go out much either (I work from home, wife is retired). I carry when I leave the house (unless I plan to have a beer with lunch, then I can't).

For home invasions (never have heard of one in our area but that doesn't mean it can't happen), I've got the G19 as first response weapon with many, many layers of backup equipment and strategies.

Dan
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 9Cal_OC View Post
What’s your body type?

I agree the G19 May take more to conceal but with the right clothes, I can pull it off and I’m not a big tall guy whatsoever.
5'11", 235 lbs. Warmer weather, T-shirt and Cabelas shorts. I don't wear covering garments in order to IWB or OWB. I prefer pocket holsters, very convenient and comfortable.

In cooler months, no problems, I have 3/4 length light jackets or parkas that are perfect for OWB holsters (IWB is not comfortable for me). I just need to be in a situation where I cannot remove the covering garment (going inside where it is warm, etc.).

Dan
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Old 09-16-2020, 1:16 PM
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Originally Posted by bergmen View Post

I see lots of interest in higher capacity carry guns such as the Sig 365. I'm not sure I understand why.
Well, because it's better than the M&P. Yes, that's my opinion (more importantly, my wife's opinion), but we're all welcome to our opinions, wouldn't you agree?

For starters, my wife carries a P365 with an aftermarket XL grip, so it has the grip dimensions of the P365XL, and although it weighs a bit less because of her fancy aftermarket slide cuts, let's pretend it weighs the same as the XL.

According to the manufacturers web pages, the P365XL weighs less than the M&P by one-tenth of an ounce. So lighter weight is better. And it's 10+1 So she has the choice to weigh less than your M&P, or she can load to full capacity and weigh a touch more. Choice is a Good Thing, but I can promise you she is always maxing it out...my wife is a smart woman.

Also, since the grip is longer, so it's easier for her to settle the sights more quickly for follow-up shots. She tried the M&P, as well as the Springfield Hellcat, and she went with her preference, as we all should.

Quote:
This leads me to a question: Are there instances where more than five rounds are really necessary to neutralize a lethal threat? I don't mean one here and one there, I mean are there enough instances to justify packing hi-cap guns or extra speed loaders or magazines?
Not sure about your redundancy. "really necessary"....is that different than "necessary"? So if breathing air is "necessary" to live, what would you rate as "really necessary"?

Just trying to understand your mindset here, because you say, "I don't mean one here and one there...." which says you understand that there are instances where more than 5 rounds / extra mags are necessary, but you have arbitrarily decided they shouldn't matter, and you don't seem to realize how this exposes a huge flaw in your thinking. Let me try to demonstrate:

You have lived many days in your life -- on how many of those thousands and thousands of days have you "really" needed a concealed pistol to save your life? I don't mean once here or once there! Because statistics tell me the vast majority of all people go their entire lives and are never attacked.

Get it?

Not trying to convince you to change your mind about anything -- I could not care less what you choose to carry. Just trying to answer your questions and understand your thinking. Hope this helps!
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Old 09-16-2020, 1:43 PM
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I guess it all depends on what scenarios you are preparing for. Self defense at an ATM has different requirements from the situation you may find yourself in if you intend to "run towards the sound of gunfire"
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  #13  
Old 09-16-2020, 2:01 PM
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Not sure about your redundancy. "really necessary"....is that different than "necessary"? So if breathing air is "necessary" to live, what would you rate as "really necessary"?

Just trying to understand your mindset here, because you say, "I don't mean one here and one there...." which says you understand that there are instances where more than 5 rounds / extra mags are necessary, but you have arbitrarily decided they shouldn't matter, and you don't seem to realize how this exposes a huge flaw in your thinking. Let me try to demonstrate:

You have lived many days in your life -- on how many of those thousands and thousands of days have you "really" needed a concealed pistol to save your life? I don't mean once here or once there! Because statistics tell me the vast majority of all people go their entire lives and are never attacked.

Get it?

Not trying to convince you to change your mind about anything -- I could not care less what you choose to carry. Just trying to answer your questions and understand your thinking. Hope this helps!
Well, I can see that under certain circumstances, having extra firepower would be an advantage, such as visiting an ATM after dark. I have only done that a few times but that is when I do carry the G19.

I guess I'm just not exposed to what I would consider unsafe or dangerous situations very often. We don't go out at night, visit large shopping malls or actually go anywhere after dark. An exception might be a movie in the evening (I carry my LCR with laser then). And that was pre-COVID.

We live in a sparsely populated county. And another thing, for 50 of my 71 years, I had no CCW license or could get one because I lived in a "non-issue" county. So, now I can carry what works for me and in my case it s mostly the guns I have mentioned.

Dan
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Old 09-16-2020, 2:47 PM
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Each bullet = a chance to say "I will not allow you to murder me!"

The more chances I have in the gun the better my chances are of coming out of a fight alive.

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Old 09-16-2020, 2:51 PM
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I want to swear that I didn't prompt the OP to ask this question, since I just did a big write-up on the subject last week.

https://restrictedarms.com/2020/09/m...ger-magazines/
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Old 09-16-2020, 3:00 PM
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Here's one involving one of our own off duty deputies.

https://www.policemag.com/340226/sho...ornia-03301996
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Old 09-16-2020, 3:17 PM
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Here's one involving one of our own off duty deputies.

https://www.policemag.com/340226/sho...ornia-03301996
Damn! That was intense.
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Old 09-16-2020, 3:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erion929 View Post
You only need ONE INSTANCE where it’s necessary to have a dire need

Never heard someone complain they had leftover bullets after an event. You ever notice, at the range, how quickly that 8-shot Shield locks back to empty? Let alone a 5-shot revolver.

Do you watch the news much these days? Violent protesters aren’t solo. Home invasions don’t limit themselves to one intruder. Both of these groups carry firearms nowadays, too. Drug-infused mental cases sometimes walk right through multiple rounds. Are you going to take the chance one of these guys reaches your side?

Yeah. you might only need presentation....you might only need one round. But.....maybe not.

FWIW, I carry the same G19.5 full capacity you shun....and I’m 5’9”, 145 lbs.


.
Reminds me of a quote from a Florida sheriff when asked why they shot the suspect 20-something times...

Paraphrase.. Because we ran out of bullets!
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Old 09-16-2020, 3:27 PM
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I guess I'm just not exposed to what I would consider unsafe or dangerous situations very often.
Well maybe that just means you're smart.

You might also live in a much safer place than most, or be luckier than most, or just feel more secure than some, or etc, etc.

In America, most people live in big cities. All big cities have portions of them that are not safe at all, and a gallon of gas or a bus ride generally can take bad guys from the unsafe part to the safe part, so there really is no truly safe part of a big city, which means most people in America live in unsafe places.

Thus, the need / desire for more capacity to fight -- on the 1-in-a-zillion chance it does happen, you don't want to come up short, because the price might be your life.

And certainly that sets up a never-ending escalation to a personal arms race. If a revolver isn't enough, I'll get a semi-auto, and if that's not enough I'll carry a spare mag, and if that's not enough I'll etc, etc, etc. We all have to choose for ourselves what we feel is the right balance. Some people will choose to carry nothing, and that's fine. Some people have BUGs and spare mags and belt knives and are experts in unarmed combat.

Whatever your choice, I hope you never need to use it!
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Old 09-16-2020, 5:18 PM
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Originally Posted by bergmen View Post
This leads me to a question: Are there instances where more than five rounds are really necessary to neutralize a lethal threat? I don't mean one here and one there, I mean are there enough instances to justify packing hi-cap guns or extra speed loaders or magazines?
“’tis better to have and not need, than to need and not have...”

To me, it’s a balance between risk/reward and the need to stay covert.

Arguably, the most important aspect of a CCW is surprise and the second is reliability. Shot placement, caliber, blah, blah, blah all take a backseat if the bad guy identifies you or your gun fails.

First. NOBODY expects you to be armed. So, it’s important to not provide “tells” because you will become target #1...no surprise. If you can’t easily and covertly carry the weight of a large capacity gun, then either drop capacity to reduce size/weight, or redistribute weight to compensate.

Two. Reliability can help here. Presuming that your gun is reliable, and functions well with your ammo, barring a broken gun the next failure point is the mag (revolvers, hold your heads high...but you could have a bad load/primer that doesn’t go “bang). Carrying a second mag or a speed loader to offset the weight imbalance of the gun+mag can help.

So, perhaps rather than planning for the minimal need, it’s more important to look at distribution of assets to provide the most flexible and effective response to a “never” event.
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Old 09-16-2020, 9:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bergmen View Post
This leads me to a question: Are there instances where more than five rounds are really necessary to neutralize a lethal threat? I don't mean one here and one there, I mean are there enough instances to justify packing hi-cap guns or extra speed loaders or magazines?

SCENARIO 1: You are driving down a road with your wife at night after dinner at a restaurant far from home. You are on a dimly lit side road that your GPS lead you through, that puts you directly on the freeway on-ramp that gets you home. The on-ramp is just 300 yards away.

Further down the road in the darkness between the row of street lights, you vaguely see about 3 individuals by side of the road. As you proceed forward, you notice them beginning to walk in the middle of the road. The subject closest to you raises his hand, as if signaling for you to stop. You bright your lights so you can see the situation better. You notice these guys are dressed like gangsters. One of them produces a gun. They are about 30-40 yards away and are advancing quickly towards your vehicle. At least 2 of them have raised their guns at you. They are shouting something you can't hear them, your windows are raised shut.

Things are happening very quickly. You don't have much options. What do you do?

(1) Do you put it on reverse and back up really fast, attempting to turn around? Or;

(2) Do you wait for them to approach, appease them by offering them all your money, jewelry and car (hopefully without your wife in it). Or;

(3) Do you tell your wife to hunker down and call 911, while you open your door, step half-way out and start shooting? Or;

(4) Do you try to kill one of them with your car and proceed towards the freeway?


If you decide #3, you better have more than 8 rounds...


--------------------------------------

SCENARIO 2: You are in Church....
.

Last edited by caliberetta; 09-16-2020 at 10:07 PM..
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Old 09-16-2020, 11:54 PM
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Default Old story - officer Timothy Gramins

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3018762/posts

Police, so not directly comparable. And, really unusual; but rare events do happen.

Quote:
Why one cop carries 145 rounds of ammo on the job

Before the call that changed Sergeant Timothy Gramins’ life forever, he typically carried 47 rounds of handgun ammunition on his person while on duty.

Today, he carries 145, “every day, without fail.”
More detail at https://americanhandgunner.com/the-a...f-tim-gramins/

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Old 09-17-2020, 12:51 AM
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I carry 17 + reload(s) when on the road. Total 101 rounds 9mm.
Five + reloads around the house and in town. Total 10 to 20 rounds 357mag.
I've referenced this article on civilian defensive gun use several times. It's a few years old and we now have civil unrest. But anytime a DGU occurred during a "riot" it seems that the crowd scatters. I have yet to see the soyboys rushing into a hail of bullets. Of course, they are arming up too now.
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Old 09-17-2020, 1:01 AM
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Watch some Active Self Protection videos where there are two or more attackers. The good guy usually rips through at least 10 rounds before attackers fall down and the survivors scatter.
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Old 09-17-2020, 3:54 AM
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I carry a 5-shot revolver like you do. I don't kid myself about it's effectiveness, I know that if I face more than one attacker I'm likely screwed. I know that if I have to reload I'm likely screwed. I honestly believe that a 10 to 17 round mag in a semi auto with a spare mag is a far superior setup and you would be a fool to carry a snubnose. I make the choice to carry a revolver because the snubnose is the most comfortable to carry and it conceals the best. Plus I enjoy shooting revolvers so I practice with it a lot. This means I actually WILL carry it, whereas every time I think about carrying the Glock I hesitate. So the Glock gets left at home. The gun you have is better than the gun left at home. I take my chances.
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Old 09-17-2020, 5:29 AM
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Never lose a gunfight by lack of shooting back.

After having shoulder surgery, I shot revolvers in practical shooting competition for several months. After that, I decided to never carry a revolver for self defense. First, having to reload quickly under stress can be difficult, and secondly, reloading a revolver takes a lot longer than swapping a magazine.

There are lots of instances where you may need to engage multiple threats.

The more rounds you have available, the better your odds of survival.
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Old 09-17-2020, 5:41 AM
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There are two things you never have enough of in a gunfight, time and Ammo. I can control the second one.
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Old 09-17-2020, 8:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan View Post
Never lose a gunfight by lack of shooting back.

After having shoulder surgery, I shot revolvers in practical shooting competition for several months. After that, I decided to never carry a revolver for self defense. First, having to reload quickly under stress can be difficult, and secondly, reloading a revolver takes a lot longer than swapping a magazine.

There are lots of instances where you may need to engage multiple threats.

The more rounds you have available, the better your odds of survival.
And maybe not just for shooting with the bad guys in your sights -- if you have the ammo, you can do a bit of suppressing fire, and get out of a bad situation. Keep the bad guys' heads down while you get the 2 or 3 steps you need to get around a corner or through a doorway or get the car started or whatever.

Not impossible with a revolver, but easier with more capacity
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Old 09-17-2020, 8:44 AM
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My all time favorite carry gun is a lowly S&W Bodyguard 38, 2". It's loaded with Remington +P short barrel jhp ammo. I can shoot it quite well at the range and it is quick to and from the holster. However, I haven't been carrying it lately due to all the unrest nationwide. My Sig P365 with a 12 round mag and a 10 round spare makes me feel more comfortable.

It's like someone said once: "If you pop off all five and the threat remains, pray and run away." Reloading a revolver would be a joke in a self defense situation, imo. Today, that situation may involve multiple threats.


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Old 09-17-2020, 7:06 PM
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bergmen bergmen is offline
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Originally Posted by caliberetta View Post
SCENARIO 1: You are driving down a road with your wife at night after dinner at a restaurant far from home. You are on a dimly lit side road that your GPS lead you through, that puts you directly on the freeway on-ramp that gets you home. The on-ramp is just 300 yards away.

Further down the road in the darkness between the row of street lights, you vaguely see about 3 individuals by side of the road. As you proceed forward, you notice them beginning to walk in the middle of the road. The subject closest to you raises his hand, as if signaling for you to stop. You bright your lights so you can see the situation better. You notice these guys are dressed like gangsters. One of them produces a gun. They are about 30-40 yards away and are advancing quickly towards your vehicle. At least 2 of them have raised their guns at you. They are shouting something you can't hear them, your windows are raised shut.

Things are happening very quickly. You don't have much options. What do you do?

(1) Do you put it on reverse and back up really fast, attempting to turn around? Or;

(2) Do you wait for them to approach, appease them by offering them all your money, jewelry and car (hopefully without your wife in it). Or;

(3) Do you tell your wife to hunker down and call 911, while you open your door, step half-way out and start shooting? Or;

(4) Do you try to kill one of them with your car and proceed towards the freeway?


If you decide #3, you better have more than 8 rounds...


--------------------------------------

SCENARIO 2: You are in Church....
.
I spent some time collecting my thoughts before responding here.

So, in scenario #1:

Never in my 71 years have I ever experienced this or read about this happening in my neck of the woods. I don't spend any time worrying about fantasy issues that don't exist. Is there a documented precedence for this scenario? I have never seen it.

1) I would NEVER stop under any circumstances whatsoever. We would be in a half ton pickup with 381 horsepower and I would use every single bit of it. I would stomp the gas peddle and if he didn't clear the roadway he would be road kill. Producing a firearm means he is engaging. I will respond in kind.

I can't imagine someone who could think that they could stop a vehicle by standing in front of it. I'm in command in that situation and he would lose. I have insurance that would replace my front body parts, no worries there.

Scenario #2:

We don't go to church.

Dan
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Old 09-17-2020, 8:21 PM
Ryan45 Ryan45 is offline
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Originally Posted by bergmen View Post
I spent some time collecting my thoughts before responding here.

So, in scenario #1:

Never in my 71 years have I ever experienced this or read about this happening in my neck of the woods. I don't spend any time worrying about fantasy issues that don't exist. Is there a documented precedence for this scenario? I have never seen it.

1) I would NEVER stop under any circumstances whatsoever. We would be in a half ton pickup with 381 horsepower and I would use every single bit of it. I would stomp the gas peddle and if he didn't clear the roadway he would be road kill. Producing a firearm means he is engaging. I will respond in kind.

I can't imagine someone who could think that they could stop a vehicle by standing in front of it. I'm in command in that situation and he would lose. I have insurance that would replace my front body parts, no worries there.

Scenario #2:

We don't go to church.

Dan

From everything you have explained about where and how you live. I am not entirely sure why you feel the need to carry a firearm. But for arguments sake if you tell me you’d rather have and not need then need and not have. I believe that would answer your original question...
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Old 09-17-2020, 8:32 PM
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tomrkba tomrkba is offline
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Did you start watching Active Self Protection videos?
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  #33  
Old 09-17-2020, 8:54 PM
robert101 robert101 is offline
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My Browning DBA holds 13 and I consider that good luck. It is an older gun and purchased long before this silly 10 round mag business.
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Old 09-17-2020, 9:27 PM
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I see lots of interest in higher capacity carry guns... I'm not sure I understand why.
Because they're flying jet liners into buildings and blowing up marathons, and executing white men on the streets of Fresno because they're white and because religion of peace, and they're shooting up schools, and night clubs, and shopping malls, and work Christmas parties, and movie theaters, and concerts, and because they're driving vans through crowds of people, and oh yea...have you seen the riots and civil unrest lately?

There was a time where if you needed a gun it was likely to be for a more "personal" type crime like a mugging or because you walked in on a convenience store robbery. But there's a metric crap ton more going on in our world currently.

Let me ask you a question...are you planing for the average or are you planing for worst case? Because according to your own logic, why even carry a gun? I mean, the odds of you needing it in the first place are pretty slim...so why even carry? And yet you do carry...because you know the odds aren't zero. Well the odds of you needing more than five rounds aren't zero either.

Another question: Is a short sight radius'd, reduced capacity, greater recoiling, single single stacked weapon, that you can barely get your whole hand on, the gun that you want to actually fight with and bet your life and the lives of your family on?

And maybe it is. Maybe you've thought about all this and you're comfortable betting the odds and fighting with a small gun. As long as you've made an informed decision and you're comfortable with the outcome if you're wrong.

Lastly, I simply can't relate to people who say a Glock 19 sized weapon is too big and heavy. It simply hasn't been my experience. My daily carry is 4.25 M&P Core with an RMR, in JM Custom appendix holster. It carries beautifully even in summer with just shorts and a T-shirt. If you're having problems with a G19, maybe a gear change or different carry position would make this better.
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Old 09-17-2020, 9:41 PM
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I generally carry a 5-shot .38 Special revolver or an 8+1 Shield for EDC. I use the 8 round magazines only because it has a pinky rest where the 7 round magazines do not. I also have a G36 (6+1) on my license and don't have a problem with this capacity.

I see lots of interest in higher capacity carry guns such as the Sig 365. I'm not sure I understand why. I have a G19 with 15 round magazine on my license but almost never carry it. Too large and very heavy (high cap adds a lot of weight to the firearm).

This leads me to a question: Are there instances where more than five rounds are really necessary to neutralize a lethal threat? I don't mean one here and one there, I mean are there enough instances to justify packing hi-cap guns or extra speed loaders or magazines?

In my experience, I read of only a few shots (if any) are fired. Mostly, just the presentation of the carry gun stops the threat (something like 10:1 to shots fired).

Opinions?

Dan
The real question is how lucky do you think you are? If you're playing a game of black jack against the dealer and your life is on the line wouldn't you want to stack your hand? If it was me I'd just shoot him in the face.
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Old 09-18-2020, 4:57 AM
LoadedM333 LoadedM333 is offline
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46-50 rounds for me; alternating between VP9 and G19. Once in a while when the weather gets cold, I carry G20 with couple of extra mags, I have no issues with size and weight. It's all about good holster and belt.

VP9-15+1 and two spare standard mags.
G19-15+1 and two G17 standard mags.

The way I see it, I don't believe in the law of average and statistics. I want to have ample amount of ammo if I ever needed to use my gun. I want to survive and have better odds on my side. This is the reason I decided to carry and carry everyday.

I went to see Navy SEAL training facility in Coronado, CA a few years back and spoke to a few of them; depending on their mission, each carry as much ammo as they can handle. While I'm not the SEAL, my mission/goal is to be alive.

Side notes, you'll be amazed on the choices of weapons each can choose on their mission.


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Old 09-18-2020, 5:53 AM
Old Marine Old Marine is offline
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I keep seeing these threads on the web and wonder what type of ammo you all carry that is do heavy.

I personally carry a G19 with a full mag plus 1 as well as a G17 mag. I carry that much ammo for the same reason I carry a defensive weapon.
Not for the probability but for the possibility.

I changed my view after reading a story about a San Bernardino Sheriff's Deputy at a store while off duty with his family. He became involved in a shoot out with an deranged man who came there to kill his wife.
The man has a semiautomatic pistol with several additional magazines, the deputy had his off duty revolver.

For me, I see it simply.
I don't get to choose:
When
Where
How many of them there are
Who is with me



I simply get two choices:

Am I carrying a weapon
And how much ammo I have on me.


Full magazine and at least one full spare magazine.
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Old 09-18-2020, 6:18 AM
MissiontoMars MissiontoMars is offline
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I generally carry a 5-shot .38 Special revolver or an 8+1 Shield for EDC. I use the 8 round magazines only because it has a pinky rest where the 7 round magazines do not. I also have a G36 (6+1) on my license and don't have a problem with this capacity.

I see lots of interest in higher capacity carry guns such as the Sig 365. I'm not sure I understand why. I have a G19 with 15 round magazine on my license but almost never carry it. Too large and very heavy (high cap adds a lot of weight to the firearm).

This leads me to a question: Are there instances where more than five rounds are really necessary to neutralize a lethal threat? I don't mean one here and one there, I mean are there enough instances to justify packing hi-cap guns or extra speed loaders or magazines?

In my experience, I read of only a few shots (if any) are fired. Mostly, just the presentation of the carry gun stops the threat (something like 10:1 to shots fired).

Opinions?

Dan

Hey Dan, good question, from my understanding of gun crime statistics from articles like this:

https://www.secondcalldefense.org/sh...%20with%20more.

http://gunssavelives.net/self-defens...h-data-tables/

...That the average number of shots fired is 2. OBVIOUSLY, that's an average, and includes incidences where dozen's of shots were fired, and where zero shots were fired.

But then again, the average isn't 10, right? Meaning that a 5-6 shot revolver is still going to very much keep you in the fight in an "average" incident.

Personally I CCW a Shield 99% of the time with the 7-8 rd mag. No spare mag most of the time (though, IMO, this is not a good practice - need to start grabbing that spare mag) I'm also shopping for a compact revolver like an LCR, S&W642, or similar, that I'd carry along with 1-2 speed strips.


I think I'm of a different mindset than most on this subject. I'm not a keyboard commando about guns. If I'm pulling a gun out, to defend myself, SO many other things have failed:

At home:
- Home security system,
- Dog security system,
- Situational awareness that would have called 911 already
- The loaded rifle/shotgun that sits near to me wherever I am in the house.

Out and about:
- Situational awareness, being aware of your exit, and the ability to simply walk/run away.
- Avoiding conflict whenever possible (being aware of and avoiding protests)
- Using my vehicle as a weapon to exit the situation with measured, aggressive force.
- Not being on foot, alone or in a small group, in an area prone to violence especially at night. (For example, I pay extra to park right across the street from the theatre we'd see musicals at, and I've got my head on a swivel the whole time. The goal being to keep us apart of a large crowd and avoid being isolated on dark downtown streets, just to save a buck.)


Be clear, my reality and logic might not fit your reality - that's fine.

Situation's are different and dynamic, but honestly if you're having to use 20+ rounds in a gunfight, IMO, you're either a cop running towards danger because it's your job, looking for conflict by being in the middle of an area you could have exited, or are woefully one of rare statistics of the average Joe being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Last edited by MissiontoMars; 09-18-2020 at 6:42 AM..
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  #39  
Old 09-18-2020, 12:55 PM
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caliberetta caliberetta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bergmen View Post
I spent some time collecting my thoughts before responding here.

So, in scenario #1:

Never in my 71 years have I ever experienced this or read about this happening in my neck of the woods. I don't spend any time worrying about fantasy issues that don't exist. Is there a documented precedence for this scenario? I have never seen it.

1) I would NEVER stop under any circumstances whatsoever. We would be in a half ton pickup with 381 horsepower and I would use every single bit of it. I would stomp the gas peddle and if he didn't clear the roadway he would be road kill. Producing a firearm means he is engaging. I will respond in kind.

I can't imagine someone who could think that they could stop a vehicle by standing in front of it. I'm in command in that situation and he would lose. I have insurance that would replace my front body parts, no worries there.

Scenario #2:

We don't go to church.

Dan

Seems like you have it all figured out Dan. Best of luck.
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Old 09-18-2020, 2:37 PM
tnlrat37 tnlrat37 is offline
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My EDC holds 8+1, I carry one spare mag, not just for spare ammo but for malfunctions as well, just a little more insurance.
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