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Calguns Concealed Carry County Information Forum Information on how to get a LTC in yourCounty

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  #281  
Old 11-12-2014, 9:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
Given the good news today, and given the fact that the SCSO actually accepted "self defense" for one week after the Peruta decision and before the AG's petition (demonstrating their apparent willingness to follow the law), I submitted my application today.

I will share my progress if and when I have any info.
Are you providing 3 character letters and a Dr.s note or telling them those are illegal to ask for?

And how can the sheriff state on the website that Santa Rosa residents can't apply?

Last edited by elkhorn98; 11-12-2014 at 9:21 PM..
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  #282  
Old 11-13-2014, 9:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhorn98 View Post
Are you providing 3 character letters and a Dr.s note or telling them those are illegal to ask for?
All I have done is submit my application and pay the $20. They only ask for other stuff later, assuming they accept your app. I also recall (from somewhere in this thread) that they are not asking for the doctors note anymore.

In answer to the question, will I provide 3 letters if I get that far? Yes.

While many argue that it is not legal under 26150. The SCSO believe that it is. Regardless, I don't really have a dog in this fight, as it is a relatively trivial task to get a few of my friends to supply letters. (And IMO the requirement is idiotic, as even a gang-banger or serial killer can get a few letters of reference, so it's completely pointless.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhorn98 View Post
And how can the sheriff state on the website that Santa Rosa residents can't apply?
Again, many argue that the sheriff's must accept your application, even if you live in a city with another issuing authority. This is not something I have to deal with, as I live in county.
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  #283  
Old 11-13-2014, 10:17 AM
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Lu v. Baca is the lawsuit that CGF won that requires the sheriff to accept all applications without first going through the city.
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  #284  
Old 11-13-2014, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBest View Post
Lu v. Baca is the lawsuit that CGF won that requires the sheriff to accept all applications without first going through the city.
I referenced that case back in Feb. when the SCSO sent my application back to me. I was told by Lt. Busarto that they don't interpret the ruling in that way and I need to apply with the Santa Rosa Police Department which is complete BS.
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  #285  
Old 11-13-2014, 11:30 AM
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^ LMFAO

Basurto is a fool.

I wouldn't communicate with them regarding CCW stuff unless it was videotaped, or via snail or email. Look at their issuance policy, their written policy says one thing, their website says another.

Regardless, Basurto does NOT follow the law, only what he feels or interprets as law. If any of you apply, and you do not reside in SCSO issuance area, I would include a copy of the Lu vs. Baca ruling in with your application and cover letter.

From SCSO Policy 219 as of 12/04/12

"219.32 APPLICATION (PENAL CODE SECTION 26175)
(a) Applications shall be uniform throughout the state, upon forms to be prescribed by the Attorney General.

(b) No licensing authority shall require any license applicant to complete any additional application or form for a CCW, or provide any information other than that necessary to complete the standard application form, except to clarify or interpret information provided by the applicant on the standard application form."


^ THUS the required letters of reference are NOT obligatory


"219.7 APPLICATION PROCEDURE
(a) Upon request, a citizen will be given a Concealed Weapons License packet to include:
1. CCW application explanation and instruction sheet.
2. DOJ application form (Form SS8501).
3. Two (2) DOJ applicant fingerprint cards (Form BID-9).
(b) Applicant shall submit:
1. Copy of approved Firearms Safety Course Certificate of Completion.
2. Copy of birth certificate or naturalization papers.
3. Copy of Honorable Military Discharge (Form DD214 or DD256A), if applicable.
4. Three (3) letters of reference.
5. Completed and signed DOJ application form.
6. Two (2) completed and signed DOJ applicant fingerprint cards (Form BID-9).
7. A check or money order made payable to “California Department of Justice”.
8. Additional agency processing fee, if applicable.
9. Written evidence from a licensed physician that the applicant is not currently suffering from any medical condition which would make the individual unsuitable for carrying a concealed weapon, (NOTE: All costs associated with this requirement shall be paid by the applicant.) Failure to provide satisfactory evidence of medical fitness shall result in removal of the applicant from further consideration.
10. The applicant may also be referred to an authorized psychologist used by the issuing Department for psychological testing in order to determine the applicant’s suitability for carrying a concealed weapon. (NOTE: The cost of such psychological testing [not to exceed $150.00] shall be paid by the applicant.) If it is psychologically determined that the applicant is not a suitable candidate for carrying a concealed weapon, the applicant shall be removed from further consideration.
11. Honorably retired federal officers shall provide written certification from the agency from which they retired certifying their service in the state, the nature of their retirement, and indication of the agency’s concurrence that the retired federal officer should be accorded the privilege of carrying a concealed weapon. This requirement is in lieu of the three (3) letters of reference described in number 4 above for retired federal officers only.


NOWHERE in the CA DOJ standard application is there a requirement for a doctors note.

Yet, if you look at SCSO Policy, again
"219.32 APPLICATION (PENAL CODE SECTION 26175)

(b) No licensing authority shall require any license applicant to complete any additional application or form for a CCW, or provide any information other than that necessary to complete the standard application form, except to clarify or interpret information provided by the applicant on the standard application form."


So, yes, Basurto is wrong. Interpret all you like, the LAW is the LAW, and if he doesnt like how its WRITTEN, he needs to call his congressman.

He's a





IF you want the most recent SCSO Policy on CCW, PM me your email address.
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  #286  
Old 11-17-2014, 7:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBest View Post
You got a reference (regulation or memo) for that? I'll bring it up for sure.
Google is pretty amazing:

Penal Code 26190
(b) (1) The licensing authority of any city, city and county, or
county may charge an additional fee in an amount equal to the actual
costs for processing the application for a new license, including any
required notices, excluding fingerprint and training costs, but in
no case to exceed one hundred dollars ($100), and shall transmit the
additional fee, if any, to the city, city and county, or county
treasury.
(2) The first 20 percent of this additional local fee may be
collected upon filing of the initial application. The balance of the
fee shall be collected only upon issuance of the license.


http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...le=26150-26225
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  #287  
Old 11-18-2014, 10:28 AM
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I'm writing a memo regarding certain laws to sheriff office that I will post up here for everyone to use and submit with theirs at the sheriff office...

Quote:
TO: SONOMA COUNTY SHERIFF’S OFFICE
FROM: [YOUR NAME HERE]
DATE: [DATE]
SUBJECT: CONCEALED WEAPON CARRY PERMIT APPLICATION


To Whom It May Concern,

As you may be aware, the California Ninth Circuit court of appeals in Peruta v. San Diego (2014) 742 F.3d 1144 ruled in February 2014 that Law enforcement Agencies must accept a citizen’s need for self defense as grounds for “good cause.” Per your policies, you have allowed a two week period of applications to be assessed under that ruling until the Ninth circuit issued a stay on the ruling pending the California attorney general’s motion to intervene. Recently on November 6th, 2014, the Ninth Circuit denied all motions to intervene making its February decision final. The court decision is not appealable because the original party to the action had withdrawn and without any interveners, there are no remaining parties to the action to appeal. Therefore, you must not deny applicants who rely on the permit for self defense as good cause.

The second issue I would like to bring to your attention is regarding your initial application policy. Due to the enormous increase in the number of applications last February, the Sheriff’s department changed their policies from handling all applications, to limiting only applicant who reside outside of Santa Rosa city limits. This policy seems to conflict with existing California case law which does not allow Sheriff’s Offices to require applicants to go through a local police agency prior to applying at the Sheriff’s Office. The court in Lu v. Baca decided in 2012 that “LASD must ‘consider the applications of all persons seeking a CCW permit in the first instance without requiring any applicant to first seek a CCW permit with his/her local police chief or city.’” The rational comes from Penal code section 26175 which states:

“(a) Applications shall be uniform throughout the state, upon forms to be prescribed
by the Attorney General.

(b) No licensing authority shall require any license applicant to complete any additional
application or form for a CCW, or provide any information other than that necessary to
complete the standard application form, except to clarify or interpret information provided
by the applicant on the standard application form."


Under this ruling, a Sheriff’s office must accept all applications for residents of its county.

You will find the citations for each case below for your reference.

Peruta v. County of San Diego (2014) 742 F.3d 1144.
Superior Court of California – County of Los Angeles Case # BC480493

Last edited by GOLDEN GUN; 11-18-2014 at 11:49 AM..
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  #288  
Old 11-18-2014, 11:53 AM
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Ok, just picked up the app from the SRPD, it's huge and it requires all sorts of nonsense such as the following done *before* application:

* Firearms class
* Letters
* Medical exam
* Livescan

The person to contact is Shannon Olenberger - 707-543-4097
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  #289  
Old 11-18-2014, 12:14 PM
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That sucks
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  #290  
Old 11-18-2014, 1:12 PM
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Reply from Lt basurto

Quote:
Because of the anticipated influx of CCW applications, the Sheriff is no longer accepting applications from the larger cities in the county. Residents of Santa Rosa, Rohnert Park and Petaluma must apply with their prospective Police Departments. The Chiefs of Police are authorized to issue CCW permits, whether they will or not is completely up to them. The Chief of Sebastopol, requested that we send Sebastopol residents to him.
I replied and told him that he cannot refuse to accept applications, per the law, you can authoritize local police to accept them but they still must accept them
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  #291  
Old 11-18-2014, 1:17 PM
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That application procedure CLEARLY and BLATANTLY goes against California law.

Play dumb.

Submit the CCW application downloaded from the CA DOJ, along with a cover letter which states, that briefly outlines your desire for CCW for personal protection , along with a check for $20. In the letter tell them to contact you with a time to come down for for fingerprinting and background check. Tell them if they want to contact you, that you are often out of cell range and the best method to reach you is email or USPS. Make a copy of the entire packet before you send it.

Then wait to see how they respond. In a month, send another letter asking for a time to come down for fingerprinting, include the copy of the packet.

Or just apply to SCSO and include a copy of CaliGuy's letter above.

This policy is illegal gents, and clearly WE are winning in the courts. FIGHT FOR THIS CHIT.

These laws are clearly written, its the 'policy' that is illegal. Get vocal, be insistent.

Better yet, just mail your application in to SCSO with a check for $20. Then, after a month, send another letter to the SCSO, and CC your District Supervisor, and the DA. The most recent court ruling shows we are well within our rights to have CCW's, and its these politicians who are breaking the law.
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  #292  
Old 11-18-2014, 1:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caliguy2004 View Post
Reply from Lt basurto



I replied and told him that he cannot refuse to accept applications, per the law, you can authoritize local police to accept them but they still must accept them
I am SOOOO ****ing tempted to print out the penal code regarding CCW issuance and send it to Basurto, noting every place in it where SCSO does NOT follow the law.

I hate that guy.
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  #293  
Old 11-18-2014, 1:29 PM
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Reply from basurto once again...

Quote:
In a seven page decision, Judge Hill ruled that the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s department must “consider the applications of all persons seeking a CCW permit in the first instance without requiring any applicant to first seek a CCW permit with his/her local police chief or city.”



The Sonoma County Sheriff’s Office is not requiring you to first go somewhere else and then return to apply if denied. We are telling you up front that we are not accepting and you must apply within your jurisdiction.



Do you see the difference?
Send me the penal code so I can send it back to him
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  #294  
Old 11-18-2014, 1:45 PM
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Guy doesn't even know his OWN policy agreement between area municipalities.

The policy is here, and is taken from the SRPD website.


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...,d.cGU&cad=rja



Yup, I need to send him the entire CCW penal code. He needs to do some reading.
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  #295  
Old 11-18-2014, 2:16 PM
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heres what i rpelied....

Quote:
hm, but what about PC 26150 and 26155?

PC26150 states:

"26150. (a) When a person applies for a license to carry a pistol,
revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the
person, the sheriff of a county may issue a license to that person
upon proof of all of the following:
(1) The applicant is of good moral character.
(2) Good cause exists for issuance of the license.
(3) The applicant is a resident of the county or a city within the
county, or the applicant's principal place of employment or business
is in the county or a city within the county and the applicant
spends a substantial period of time in that place of employment or
business
...."

Under this code i would meet the filing status for the county since my principle place of employment is in Healdsburg and i without a doubt spend a substantial period of time there...not to mention my temporary home is in the county and i do not have a definite leave date.
so would i be able to file with county instead of City?

PC 26155 list the same requirments for a police department...

"26155. (a) When a person applies for a license to carry a pistol,
revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the
person, the chief or other head of a municipal police department of
any city or city and county may issue a license to that person upon
proof of all of the following:..."

the reason i ask is because the city being new to all of this have no idea what they are doing and still have illegal policies and refuse to change them. they also charge much more and require training and other examinations prior to initial acceptance which is prohibited by PC26165(d)
"(d) The applicant shall not be required to pay for any training
courses prior to the determination of good cause being made pursuant
to Section 26202."

Please let me know as i would much rather apply with the county then try and educate the city
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  #296  
Old 11-18-2014, 3:38 PM
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His response;

"Gosh CaliGuy....I had no idea the regs said that. We always just made up our own policy, based on what felt legal to our department. I'm acutally surprized the DOJ has this law so clearly explained.

Give me a month or two. Because of Prop 47 passed last month, we are busy releasing previously incarcerated criminals back into the streets. Once I have some time after Christmas to look this over, I'll let County Counsel evaluate our policy and consider revisions. Maybe by the time pigs fly and all men are created equal will we have this sorted out and we can get you a permit. In the mean time, when seconds count, the police are just minutes away."
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Last edited by GillaFunk; 11-18-2014 at 3:43 PM..
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  #297  
Old 11-18-2014, 3:47 PM
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Thank you!
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  #298  
Old 11-18-2014, 4:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBest View Post
Ok, just picked up the app from the SRPD, it's huge and it requires all sorts of nonsense such as the following done *before* application:

* Firearms class
* Letters
* Medical exam
* Livescan

The person to contact is Shannon Olenberger - 707-543-4097
No, it does not require any of this before applying.

See their instruction on their CCW page: http://www.sonomasheriff.org/ccw.php

Download the app. Fill it out. Bring it in and have it witnessed and pay the initial $20. If you are initially approved, then you will be required to do all the rest of that stuff.
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  #299  
Old 11-18-2014, 4:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MudCamper View Post
No, it does not require any of this before applying.

See their instruction on their CCW page: http://www.sonomasheriff.org/ccw.php

Download the app. Fill it out. Bring it in and have it witnessed and pay the initial $20. If you are initially approved, then you will be required to do all the rest of that stuff.
I am talking about the SRPD. You're talking about the SO?
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  #300  
Old 11-18-2014, 5:30 PM
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To prevent information from getting lost, I am creating a Google Doc which contains all the pertinent information: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

If there are any changes, please PM me!
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  #301  
Old 11-18-2014, 6:15 PM
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I talked to Ray Higgins and the next class would be in April 2015. He does not do the classes in the rain. It is also up to the Ukiah Gun Club board members to allow scheduling.
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  #302  
Old 11-18-2014, 6:47 PM
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hey may lose out on a lot of people applying now.. if its required its required.. were not gonna wait around for him.. tell him il drive him out to bullseye in san rafeal.. what if you are required to shoot someone in the rain?
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  #303  
Old 11-18-2014, 7:11 PM
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Consider approaching Freitas to allow Bullseye CCW instructor (who I believe is approved by Marin Co SO) to provide authorized instruction.

Anyone contacted Kocch or Napa training options?
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  #304  
Old 11-18-2014, 7:14 PM
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why would he want to make it easier for us?

whats his motivation?

il just tell ray higbee to meet me at bullseye or to get his *** out in the rain… bad guys aren't marines and do come out in the rain.. lol
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  #305  
Old 11-18-2014, 7:29 PM
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I hear front sight is on the list now
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  #306  
Old 11-18-2014, 7:32 PM
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Ray isnt the only option.
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Old 11-18-2014, 7:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldyeller View Post
I hear front sight is on the list now
http://www.sonomasheriff.org/ccw.php
Bottom of the page, you are correct sir.
Maybe I'll get a non resident NV permit while doing the training for SoCo.
If anyone needs help with a membership feel free to contact me.
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  #308  
Old 11-18-2014, 8:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBest View Post
I am talking about the SRPD. You're talking about the SO?
You are correct. I was confused. My apologies.
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  #309  
Old 11-18-2014, 8:48 PM
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i believe ray is the most affordable lol
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  #310  
Old 11-18-2014, 8:59 PM
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I may have to ask the board for approval. But being a member of Sebastapol rifle and pistol club gives us access to a indoor range. We would just have to get the instructor there. It is to bad I missed last Thursday's meeting.
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Old 11-19-2014, 9:31 AM
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Met an old man who got his through Healdsburg city...

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Old 11-19-2014, 9:44 AM
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That paper is made out of this stuff

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Old 11-19-2014, 9:49 AM
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Lol rice paper would be better
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  #314  
Old 11-20-2014, 2:37 PM
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I had to return to the SCSO to complete the form because I missed read the instructions. I was informed that they changed the web site and were back to only issuing with the old good cause statement. That change will happen after ALL litigation is completed. Of course with unlimited deep pockets Harris will continue to go back to court. I wish she had to pay out of pocket.
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Old 11-20-2014, 2:39 PM
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Is that recently? I thought u already had it... If that's right now that's not how the law works...
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  #316  
Old 11-20-2014, 2:45 PM
oldyeller oldyeller is offline
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All litigation completed means once the mandate is issued hopefully
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  #317  
Old 11-20-2014, 2:54 PM
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SCSO CCW page was changed today. They removed all comments relating to Peruta. Looks like they are going to try and ignore the law. Too bad, considering they were willing to comply with it before. Perhaps they will see the light after a mandate is issued.
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  #318  
Old 11-20-2014, 3:02 PM
GOLDEN GUN GOLDEN GUN is offline
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If I get another denial from them saying lack of good cause I will file suit... I'm so tired of it

Last edited by GOLDEN GUN; 11-20-2014 at 3:08 PM..
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  #319  
Old 11-20-2014, 3:16 PM
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speeddemon1187 speeddemon1187 is offline
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So... I'm confused... Is SRPD accepting applications or not? I do live in the city limits, and if the SCSO is going to be a d*ck about it, I really don't care who I submit my application to.
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  #320  
Old 11-20-2014, 3:21 PM
GOLDEN GUN GOLDEN GUN is offline
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Haven't relieved an update phone call from the guy that's supposed to be in charge..

He told me if I don't hear from him in 30 days call back.. I left his number up here somewhere..

But so far it seems like they are both being c*ck suckers about it..
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