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Ladies Forum A place for our female Calgunners to discuss, share and interact without the 'excess attention' sometimes found in online forums. |
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#41
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OP did not say what the purpose of the gun was: Range shooting, or self defense?
.380's are usually used as concealed carry backup guns, if at all, by LEOs, the main CCW handgun being .40 or .45. If a woman is just going to range-shoot, the .380 will be a lot of fun. Expensive ammo, though. If she expects to use it CCW for self defense or for Home Defense, it just won't be adequate, as in "stop a Bad Guy in one or two hits". Read the ballistics tables and you'll know why. People may disagree with this, but it's based on math, not opinion. If a woman can't rack a slide, she needs to practice, with a thoroughly empty gun, in front of tv for a week, and then she'll be able to, once she finds a technique that works. BUT, the very first thing anyone needs to do, when considering self defense, is to sit down with yourself and think hard and honestly about the question " Can I kill another human being if I have to ?" Not winging a Bad Guy, not scaring him or threatening him. Can you bring yourself to kill him dead and face the fallout, legal and emotional, from that. If not, you shouldn't have a gun for self defense.
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WHAT I HAVE LEARNED SO FAR, MOSTLY THE HARD WAY • Do only safe sex. Never have sex with someone crazier than you are. • Don't marry or move in together before you're both at least 25. • Don't have children until you're married five years or at least age 30. • Put 10% of your salary into savings every month no matter how broke you are. • Don't ever screw around with the IRS. • Keep a handgun on your bedside table. • Don't smart-mouth judges, or cops who stop you on the road. |
#42
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I almost tore the slide off the rail (sarcasm) because it racked so easily. The recoil is much lighter than I expected but I would never buy a handgun without firing it (especially since the P238 is not the cheapest mouse gun on the market). Obviously, unless you're willing to leave the state, you will not be able to find this weapon for rent at any range. I agree with everyone else on this thread stating that you should leave your biases at the door (not to say that you wouldn't). Everyone has their own preferences and hers should be up to her. I do not agree that 380 is not a "stopping power" round but I understand the math makes a logical argument and is difficult to refute. By the way my husband loves shooting it too . |
#43
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#44
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I have seen many posts in this thread from men who suggest that a little gun is a waste of time/money and lacks function of any kind. As a small female I must say that a little gun may be a waste for the average man but women gravitate do to the fact that they are functional for us. All firearms have a purpose in life whether or not it is understood to anyone besides its owner.
If your wife wants a little gun let her get a little gun; talking her into something she doesn't want is going to turn her off to shooting altogether and then you may find increased resistance when you want to go shooting. Given that firearms can be expensive you cannot afford her resistance. I agree that guns are not a fashion accessory but does that mean that I cannot choose one that fits my function and looks nice. At the risk of losing all credibility I have to say that when I filled out my warranty card I listed previous experience with Sig and Sig's reputation and I chose other and filled in "it's cute". My P238 is a beautiful piece of machinery and I bought it for a specific purpose- its cuteness just happens to be a plus. I also think that my .22 rifle is cute and my Savage Model 99 is cute. Why are they cute? We have a personal relationship based on function. My M16 was cute too... Why? It would save my butt if I needed it to. Men please don't discredit a choice of gun by your lady or any other lady because we told you it's cute. (Sorry if that's too much off topic)
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Only the dead have seen the end of war -Jorge Santayana |
#45
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I recently bought a S&W 442 for my fiance. It's small for her hand, lightweight, reliable and shoots +P ammo. For what she wants it for, it was perfect for her. We looked at several and she loved the fit for her hand.
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#46
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Manipulating a slide can be just as hard on a .380 as on a .45 depending on the gun. I'd get her a .38 spl revolver. Ruger, Taurus, or Smith and Wesson depending on your budget. I've got a Taurus 85 that I'm very happy with.
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“When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny.” - Thomas Jefferson "We are number one, all others are number two or lower." - The Sphinx "Why does every discussion of culture always degrade into a discussion of burritos?" - GoZoner |
#48
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in 2005 i bought a smith and wesson model 60 snubbie .38/.357.
it was the first self-defense "piece" i bought for myself. i love the thing. certainly flies in the face of don't go small for a first gun! however, the model 60 is metal, all metal. makes a difference.
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"The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound."-- as seen on a t-shirt |
#49
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Aha! I get it. Now we must distinguish between 'small' (length x width and grip size), caliber, and weight.
A large (L x W + g) can be light, as in a Glock. Caliber is caliber, but the gun gets heavier when loaded with a large caliber. Generally the heavier a gun itself is (in ounces, such as an all-steel model), the less kick, assuming a given caliber. This is a complicated question, which is why we have to try them on for size, like shoes or bra's....
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WHAT I HAVE LEARNED SO FAR, MOSTLY THE HARD WAY • Do only safe sex. Never have sex with someone crazier than you are. • Don't marry or move in together before you're both at least 25. • Don't have children until you're married five years or at least age 30. • Put 10% of your salary into savings every month no matter how broke you are. • Don't ever screw around with the IRS. • Keep a handgun on your bedside table. • Don't smart-mouth judges, or cops who stop you on the road. |
#50
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Ok...
First didn't see anywhere the OP was from. Remember right now... not the best time for anything being in stock especially in CA where the roster adds that extra wedgie. Everyone here agrees. Let her choose. Most of the ranges (at least in San Diego) have many models/caliber to chose from... let her make her choice after actually firing them. I have a CZ-75B SA in 9mm that many of my friends say shoots fine and has recoil like a feather (until the +P loads are loaded up). Then she likes to kick like a stallion. My Ruger LC9 on the other hand takes a masterful hand to keep it in Minute of Cow. For practice a good .22lr semi (her choice) and a good 9mm for SD/HD should be judged no on what people say on the internet forum but by her at the range.
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US Navy Retired 1987-2007 |
#52
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4th gen Glock 26
__________________
“Nobody is gonna hit as hard as life, but it ain’t how hard you can hit. It’s how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. It’s how much you can take, and keep moving forward." |
#54
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If you're going .380, I suggest a Sig P238. You don't want the gun too light and the trigger too stiff or it becomes too difficult to shoot for a novice. The P238 has a pretty good and light single action trigger, and is an all metal gun - still small and light as far as guns go, but not so light that it is too snappy or difficult to keep on target.
You could also go for a .357 magnum revolver of some kind, where she could start with light .38 special loads and work herself up to .38 +P or .357 magnums in the same gun. If she can't lock back the slide on your glock (are you sure she is even doing it correctly? this is hard to believe) then I can't really suggest any 9mm's or higher because she will have the same problem with any of them IMO. Last edited by stix213; 01-03-2013 at 9:53 PM.. |
#56
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The Ruger LC22 is perfect for small, mild, or elderly hands. Plastic composite handle, aluminum rail and a stainless steel barrel. Very little recoil. And very easy to cluster multiple rounds in the same spot. Now that is lethal.
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#57
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I'd want her to handle a Kahr 9mm, fullsize, steel framed. imo the poly frame is only better if you need the weight savings for carry. Otherwise the steel frame helps tame the recoil and I also think the steel frames are just a nicer more well made pistol. This might be a good choice.
http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-K9-w-Night-Sights.asp |
#58
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Ms. Charlie50 likes a .38 snub. Like others have said have your wife handle and shoot different pistols. BTW: Short barrel revolvers are very difficult to shoot well without practice- but they are simple and will go BANG everytime. Semi autos often have complexities that must be learned, again practice is crucial.
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'I own the guns I own because I acknowledge mankind's shortcomings instead of pretending like they don't exist. There are evil men in this world and there just may be a time when I need to do the unthinkable to protect me or my family,' Joshua Boston "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics, is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." Plato |
#59
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1911 .22
I have a 1911 22 my boyfriend picked out for me and I absolutely love it. I feel it is the perfect size and no kick!! I feel very comfortable I have a also shot the roguer something and that was alot of fun another small gun! And that one had a very easy mag to load!! But a xd9 is still to much for me and I do not find it enjoyable! But this is me Im 5'7 and 240 lbs everyone is different!
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#60
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"Don't move! Or I'll fill you full of...little yellow bolts of light!" |
#61
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nice grips on that 1911, melissah!
__________________
"The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound."-- as seen on a t-shirt |
#62
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Excuse my fashionably late entry into the discussion.
IMO, the OP should take his lady friend to a gun shop with the largest selection within driving distances. Once there, he should step away from the counter and let HER pick what feels good to her hand. Forget caliber, brand pedigree or cost. Once she's done there may be anywhere from two to ten guns on the table. Make a list, and have her shoot them if its logistically possible. If not skip to the next stage, which involves purchasing the one she likes best. Don't worry about the caliber. Once the checks written, step on over to the ammo counter. Buy as much as you can afford. Or nowadays, whatever's on the shelf. Either way that pistol doesn't go on her hip or nightstand until a minimum of 250 rounds are run though it. If she still likes it, congrats! If she hates it after live fire experience,go back to your list and trade the gun for the runner up and start the process over again. Don't worry about the caliber, which police agency uses it, or what Joe Tacticool said at the gun counter said. Joe Tacticool won't be there if you need to clear holster.
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The more prohibitions you have, the less virtuous people will be. The more subsidies you have, the less self reliant people will be. -Lao-Tzu, Tau Te Ching. 479 BCE The 1911 may have been in wars for 100 years, but Masetro Bartolomeo Beretta was arming the world 400 years before John Browning was ever a wet dream. |
#63
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#64
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Reason like this are why even though a lot of things are in sticky's, its nice to get opinions from people for certain circumstances. Usually I can find the topic using search though (hint for the guys). Another problem is if you are looking for a smaller pocket gun, they are about impossible to find for rent at the ranges. By searching the threads here and elsewhere sometimes you find out about a gun that you never heard of before. My local ranges have a couple 380s and that's it. And the gun stores have a very limited selection to see what fits. None of my shooter friends have pocket/mouse guns to try. In my situation, my wife won't be on the forum but will go to the range a few times a year to keep in practice. The biggest concern is she wants something that will fit her hand. But knowing her, unless I do the research to give her some suggestions, we will be going through several guns that I don't want to keep (if she hates them). For example at the range she is great with my 92fs but has trouble with the XD9. So I know once on the range how her hand fits (control under fire - different from holding one in the shop) and trigger pull will become an issue. But at least I can rent a lot of 9s, 38's, .40's for her to try. She is going to a revolver for home protection now, so trigger pull and recoil are #1 and she'll have a larger caliber. For a new mouse gun, she found she can't rack the slide on the .32 Tomcat, like she could on her Jetfire .25 Though with the pop up barrel she has another option. Her hands won't be getting any stronger. Since this is a board where things get misunderstood, not picking on BonnieB, just using it to expand the discussion. Thought you had an excellent post. |
#65
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SCM, thanks for making a very important statement and i will be very specific with it: the search button is your friend!
actually, a .25 beretta pop up hurts my hand more than higher calibers.......but they are a really nice pistol. i love revolvers and recommend she stay away from light/air weights! i love the smith and wesson model 60 and would recommend the 3 inch if she isn't doing CCW. the ruger sp101 is a great revolver as well. youtube has lots of videos re women and racking a slide. i would love to see how your wife utilizes a hard surface to rack a slide.....hint hint hint re pictures! and i do have to say that if you think things get misunderstood here, well, you haven't spent much time in OT! excellent post, btw. hope to see you here again.
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"The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound."-- as seen on a t-shirt |
#66
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I will sound like a broken record... but I advise you let her hold some, and if at all possible shoot as many as possible. If she's needing to learn, then that can be done too. My husband did most of the research and made a decision on which he bought for me (which at first irritated me... this is why I suggest you bring her in on your research and give her some info on why you think such and such is a good starting point) but after talking with the woman behind the counter (helped that she was female here) and holding it and standing in a stance with it, I discovered it is probably a good beginning point. I do plan on eventually having more than just this firearm. I also will have the opportunities to shoot my husband's weapons such as his .45 and I did also like the .38SP revolver I got to examine. It's all about what she is comfortable with. I know my husband is smart and he chose wisely (I do give him credit for doing a lot of the research and explaining to me that even though the .380 may be seen as a 'too small' type of weapon that with the right ammunition and accuracy it can be what I need it to be.) but I do wish I were more involved. That was MY fault, too as I just sort of let him since I don't know as much. After arming (heh) myself with information and asking the questions I now want to be more involved. So, that will most likely mean more weapons in the future. :P Let us know how it goes!
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#68
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I really appreciate the advice. Fortunately we have a lot more options for home defense. A lot of people keep recommending the lightweights. But I feel, and probably you know by your suggestions, something a bit heavier would have less felt recoil and she'd be comfortable with that. I haven't shot many revolvers but the last one I tried, I was shocked at how smooth it was compared to ones I tried years ago. Looking forward to trying some out at the range. Think she'll be surprised as well. Quote:
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#69
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i think there are those that would like to know her tips/tricks.
if not for ourselves, to pass on to those with similar problems. my mother can no longer rack her .32 .............
__________________
"The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound."-- as seen on a t-shirt |
#71
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thanks, SCM.
__________________
"The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound."-- as seen on a t-shirt |
#72
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Its meant for 'split-second' instinct shooting, when a fraction of a second may make all the difference in survival or otherwise. One really, really, important consideration is the quality level of the steel in a Smith........the Smith won't wear out or break down from hundreds, or even thousands, of rounds fired in practice.......you can rely on the Smith to function when needed. (that said, its a good idea to have the side-plate off and clean/oil the working parts every so often) cheers Carla |
#73
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thanks, carla: i really did do a lot of research before i bought it.
legally, i think its hard to argue self-defense at more than 7 yards [21 feet]. prosecutors seem to think one isn't sufficiently in fear of their life if further away from a bad guy. sigh. or so it seems to me. my little model 60 snubbie fits the ticket. i also think that the 3 inch is a great home defense weapon......at one point i swore i would also buy the 3 inch and 5 inch barrel model 60! thanks for the info re the side-plate and cleaning!
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"The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound."-- as seen on a t-shirt |
#75
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Having the side-plate off a Smith to clean/oil the hammer/trigger/sear/cyl stop, cyl latch, etc., is a simple operation you can do easily.......but..... This is an operation for which one *must* 'follow the recipe' exactly. First, invest in the 'Shop Manual' for S&W, by Jerry Kuhnhausen. That manual clearly explains the procedure, which is dead easy when done correctly, but that 'correctly' is hard to visualise until you've read the manual....after that, its simple/easy. That manual is easily found on the internet, and will cost $30-something these days. Also, invest the relatively few dollars in a set of 'S&W' screw drivers, from Brownells. Those are made to fit the side-plate screws exactly, so as not to risk damaging the screw slots or scarring the side-plate. Also, invest in the light 'soft hammer' needed to tap the frame gently without marring, til the side-plate comes free. If you aren't familiar with using a 'soft hammer', its simply a light hammer with leather or medium-soft plastic striking tips. You could whittle out a soft hammer for yourself from seasoned hardwood 'stove wood', which would work just as well, actually. Envision a wooden mallet with medium-soft leather faces glued to the striking area. Cleaning the working parts of a Smith is easy. You can use one of the spray-can cleaners sold as 'brake cleaner', but be sure to get the 'non-chlorinated' version. If you use a spray cleaner, do it outside, as the fumes are not good for you. Alternatively, Q-tips and/or little bits of lint-free paper towels gripped in a tweezers will get the grime out of the 'nooks and crannies'. I use 'Break-Free' brand oil, myself. Yes, the stuff is expensive, but its 'cheap at the price', to have the Smith work smoothly. Use a little bit of oil flowed from a toothpick or an oil-dropper onto every place where any metal part moves relative to any other part. The mechanism should have 'plenty enough' oil without being 'flooded' so to speak. cheers Carla Last edited by Asphodel; 02-12-2013 at 12:07 PM.. |
#76
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thanks again, carla!
ETA: i see he has several manuals and several for smiths.....the interesting one for me is the specific pre-MIM, J-N Frames......and is less expensive from midway than from amazon......
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"The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound."-- as seen on a t-shirt Last edited by movie zombie; 02-12-2013 at 6:18 PM.. |
#77
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In my experience, Women are very capable shooters and good shots to boot. Take one giant step backwards and let her go with what her instincts tell her to go with.
I have put many a handgun in my wifes hands and been utterly surprised at how adept she is with them. Someday, I will stop being surprised. |
#78
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Small guns that are light kick badly.
I would recommend an EMP in 9mm or a sig 2022 in 9mm. Both are fairly heavy, have great sights, smaller grips, and are world class guns she would shoot well. The sig is perhaps the best choice in that you can carry it with the hammer down and with one in the chamber as its DA/SA. It also has a decocker. |
#79
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When I took my wife shooting for the first time, she had never held a gun before. I had three handguns I brought with us. My Sig 226 .40, Sig 229 .357with hogue wrap around grip and my Glock 23 .40.
My wife is pretty small, 5'3 and 105 lbs. She shot all three but kept wanting to shoot the .357. She absolutely loved it. She has fairly small hands, but the gun felt comfortable to her and she was completely at ease with it. So I dont believe that just because someone is "small," that they should be delegated to using a sub-compact or lighter recoil ammo. My wife began the day by shooting the entire silhouette, to shooting in the 4 and 5 rings of it. Like most are saying, take her to the range with a variety of guns, let her decide if she wants a full size or compact. Don't be surprised by what she can handle. |
#80
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I have not shot this gun, but ALMOST bought one at one point. It's very small and could be comfortable for a lady with small hands. That being said, I have VERY small hands. I'm taller but I can't comfortably grip many larger pistols. I can shoot them, but things like slide release, and being able to reach my finger as far as I'd like into the trigger guard, etc vary! My husband's .40 Springfield XD, I'm fine with, but even a small frame Walther P22, just doesn't fit my hand correctly! Some have already said this, but get her into a few gun shops and let her feel what she wants. I thought I wanted a certain gun, but having it in my hand changed my mind and I went an entire different route. I DO have to say this about the grips out there. Small hands like me tend to LOVE a houge overmould or rubber grip, even if its a little larger. It really is very comfortable and many models can be accomodated. BUT this .380 is awesome in the hands and makes me want to consider one again especially as a conceal carry. You could hide this just about anywhere, even on a 95 lbs itty bitty!
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The answer to 1984 is 1776! |
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