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  #81  
Old 06-20-2016, 11:15 PM
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How about this scenario?

My son, residing in another state, wants to gift an off roster handgun to me.
I have an 0-1 FFL.
Can I receive the gun from him via regular legal shipping means, log it into my A&D book from him, log out to me, then file a BOF 4542A "Firearm Ownership Report"?
ort (BOF 4542A), pdf

The intention would be to have the gun registered in my name with DOJ in order to put it on a CCW permit.
Thanks in advance
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  #82  
Old 06-20-2016, 11:24 PM
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I think no matter what you have to DROS it to yourself as an exempt pistol. You could skip the 4473 though depending how your FFL is set up.
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  #83  
Old 06-20-2016, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
I think no matter what you have to DROS it to yourself as an exempt pistol. You could skip the 4473 though depending how your FFL is set up.

Isn't that what the 4542A is for? To "register" it in my name?
If not, can an exempt pistol be DROS'ed to me if it is a gift? I am exempt from doing DOJ transfers so I would have to take it to an FFL to DROS it?


As far as 4473's I was told by the ATF investigator that I can log out guns in my book to me as personal acquisitions, but to trans to a non licensee a 4473 would have to be filled out.
Thanks
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  #84  
Old 06-21-2016, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kendog4570 View Post
Isn't that what the 4542A is for? To "register" it in my name?
If that were that easy could "transfer" any off roster to yourself and self register it.

Quote:
If not, can an exempt pistol be DROS'ed to me if it is a gift? I am exempt from doing DOJ transfers so I would have to take it to an FFL to DROS it?
I DROS exempt pistols all the time to customers for intrafamilial interstate transfers.

Yes you would need to go to someone that could DROS.

Quote:
As far as 4473's I was told by the ATF investigator that I can log out guns in my book to me as personal acquisitions, but to trans to a non licensee a 4473 would have to be filled out.
Thanks
That is true federally, but I believe in CA anything going through your FFL to you must be DROSd. I am not sure if there's a difference with gunsmith only FFLs.

Others here with that type of license can better answer that for you.
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  #85  
Old 06-21-2016, 6:45 AM
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It would be nice if it were that simple, wouldn't it? What was I thinking...??! I will check with DOJ about personal guns. I am under the impression that was all that was required until it would transfer to a non-licensee. Then I would ship/transfer to an FFL able to do the DROS for the buyer. In 10 years I have done this only a handful of times and have kept for personal even less.
There is no FFL specifically for gunsmiths. Mine is an 01, but it can be 07, 08, 10, 29, or a few others. The state makes the distinction by having an exemption available for FFL's not in business to do transfers.
I want to get a Ruger LCP for a carry gun and my son has one he wants to gift to me. At least there is a way with a DROS.

Thanks again.
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  #86  
Old 06-21-2016, 12:42 PM
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That is interesting.

Federal law requires that the transfer of a firearm between residents of different states go through a FFL.

CA law allows for the CA DOJ form to be filled out for intrafamilial transfers. They gave illegal advice in the past that a person could get the firearm from someone out of state and just fill out the form.

Under Federal law a sole proprietor FFL can just log out the firearm to themselves.

CA law requires a DROS, except in certain cases, such as an intrafamilial transfer, in which form BOF 4544A (not the other form) would need to be filled out.

Perhaps I am wrong, but strangely it seems like it would work. The only issue I can see if whether there is an issue as a gunsmith as to whether you could transfer a firearm, even if it is to yourself, even if you fill out the form. Being exempt as a gunsmith could raise issues.
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  #87  
Old 06-22-2016, 6:09 AM
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Thanks. I will probably at least give it a try. The worst thing that they can do is say "NO".
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  #88  
Old 06-22-2016, 2:59 PM
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The question is who would say "no" and why. This is something that would be hard to get a straight answer for due to the state/federal issues.
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  #89  
Old 08-05-2016, 5:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLDEN GUN View Post
I accept firearms from nonFFLs
Don't you require Firearm Shipment Approval Letter from DOJ to receive firearms? Can individuals / non FFL obtain approval letter prior to shipping?
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  #90  
Old 08-05-2016, 6:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA_2A_fighter View Post
Don't you require Firearm Shipment Approval Letter from DOJ to receive firearms? Can individuals / non FFL obtain approval letter prior to shipping?
That document is only required from FFLs (not 03s):
https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcfaqs#2
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  #91  
Old 08-05-2016, 7:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
Good luck finding an FFL to take a gun directly from a non FFL. I don't know any that will.
My dad shipped a handgun to my ffl. They accepted it.
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  #92  
Old 08-09-2016, 1:08 PM
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Does anyone know of an ffl in the Reno nv. Area who will ship inter family off-roster transfers for a reasonable price?
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  #93  
Old 11-05-2016, 6:00 PM
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Default Help Needed in Pennsylvania

I have read this thread and want to confirm my understanding. As a father who lives in PA. and wanted to gift two off roster handguns to my daughter in Oakland area, I can visit her this holiday time with these firearms, (Legally following airline regs). At the range (FFL approved) I can fill out the Intrafamilial Transfer Form 27870 PC, with a notarize letter with fathers DL, Make ,Model and Serial numbers of the handguns and note of willingness to gift the handguns to my daughter. She then will go through the standard NICS background check.

If this is the procedure, can both handguns transfer at that time or is there a restriction of one transfer per 30 days?

Will that meet all that is required for this transfer by California Law.

Things are a little different here in PA. So I want to make these gifts transfer properly.

Thanking you all, in advance.
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  #94  
Old 11-05-2016, 6:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Star-4 View Post
I have read this thread and want to confirm my understanding. As a father who lives in PA. and wanted to gift two off roster handguns to my daughter in Oakland area, I can visit her this holiday time with these firearms, (Legally following airline regs). At the range (FFL approved) I can fill out the Intrafamilial Transfer Form 27870 PC, with a notarize letter with fathers DL, Make ,Model and Serial numbers of the handguns and note of willingness to gift the handguns to my daughter. She then will go through the standard NICS background check.

If this is the procedure, can both handguns transfer at that time or is there a restriction of one transfer per 30 days?

Will that meet all that is required for this transfer by California Law.

Things are a little different here in PA. So I want to make these gifts transfer properly.

Thanking you all, in advance.
since you are not a CA-resident, there is no need for your daughter to use that form.

that form is for a CA-to-CA transfer where no FFL is needed to facilaite the transfer. since this is a PA-to-CA transfer, federal law requires that an FFL be used and then you don't need to use the above mentioned form.


and there is no way for you or your daughter to do a standard NICS background check without using an FFL. and yes, the 1-in-30 rule still applies in this case.
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  #95  
Old 11-06-2016, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Star-4 View Post
I have read this thread and want to confirm my understanding. As a father who lives in PA. and wanted to gift two off roster handguns to my daughter in Oakland area, I can visit her this holiday time with these firearms, (Legally following airline regs). At the range (FFL approved) I can fill out the Intrafamilial Transfer Form 27870 PC, with a notarize letter with fathers DL, Make ,Model and Serial numbers of the handguns and note of willingness to gift the handguns to my daughter. She then will go through the standard NICS background check.

If this is the procedure, can both handguns transfer at that time or is there a restriction of one transfer per 30 days?

Will that meet all that is required for this transfer by California Law.

Things are a little different here in PA. So I want to make these gifts transfer properly.

Thanking you all, in advance.
I can help facilitate this transfer for your daughter. Please have her (or you) make an appointment with us when you're in town: sales@ugimports.com

Please note our closure schedule depending when you're in town (and we might be out): http://ugimports.com/closed

The appointment will take ~30 mins or less if she already has her FSC/HSC card.

She will need to see us 3 times total for the 2 handguns over 40-60 days.

Thanks,
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  #96  
Old 12-08-2016, 6:44 PM
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Quick question to bring this thread alive again... where does it say 1 in 30 rule applies to intrafamily transfers?

Or is this just from doj field reps? Because this is my interpretation. (With the help of a lawyer Buddy)

PC 27535 says that you can't make an application to purchase more than one handgun in a 30 day period. It lists a whole bunch of exceptions to that (intrafamilial is not one of the exceptions). However, the operative word in 27535 is "PURCHASE". You are not PURCHASING a gun when you receive a gift from family member. There are separate code sections for these special transfers. PC 27875 and 27920 set out the process and eligible persons for the GIFT or BEQUEST of a firearm (i.e. operation of law & intrafamilial transfer). By its very definition, this process is NOT a purchase of a firearm and does not fall under the various requirements for PURCHASE. For that reason, the 1 in 30 days of 27535 does NOT apply to transactions done under 27875 or 27920 because you are NOT making application to PURCHASE a firearm.

When it is done in state, you don't even need a dealer and can gift as many as you want. Because it is coming interstate, a dealer is required under federal and state law. However, it is still an exempt intrafamilial transfer and not subject to 27535, etc.
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  #97  
Old 12-08-2016, 7:10 PM
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Well, if you can get the CA DOJ to agree to that view, more power to you, until then don't expect an FFL to agree.
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  #98  
Old 12-08-2016, 7:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
Well, if you can get the CA DOJ to agree to that view, more power to you, until then don't expect an FFL to agree.
Is there documentation or personal conversation you have had with CaDoj? I'm not trying to stir the pot here I am very curious.
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  #99  
Old 12-08-2016, 8:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwfillmore View Post
Is there documentation or personal conversation you have had with CaDoj? I'm not trying to stir the pot here I am very curious.
You missed a definition. ETA: it's PC 16190
Quote:
As used in this part, “application to purchase” means either of the following:

(a) The initial completion of the register by the purchaser, transferee, or person being loaned a firearm, as required by Section 28210.

(b) The initial completion and transmission to the Department of Justice of the record of electronic or telephonic transfer by the dealer on the purchaser, transferee, or person being loaned a firearm, as required by Section 28215.
DROS filing is an 'application to purchase', no matter what kind of transaction - sale, loan, trade.

Since Federal law forces the interstate transfer through the FFL, and CA law requires filing DROS, and the intrafamilial transfer is not included in the exceptions, interstate intrafamilial is not exempt from 1-in-30.
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Last edited by Librarian; 12-08-2016 at 11:47 PM..
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  #100  
Old 12-09-2016, 3:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwfillmore View Post
Is there documentation or personal conversation you have had with CaDoj? I'm not trying to stir the pot here I am very curious.
Clearly you don't understand how things work. You can claim anything that you want and perhaps you might be right, but unless and until you can get the government to agree with you, it does not matter, even when the law seems clear.

In this case, as Librarian said, you are missing an important aspect.
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  #101  
Old 12-09-2016, 7:44 PM
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I understand DROS means (dealer record of sale) but I've still been searching for the penal code that actually defines DROS. Don't get me wrong I accept that this is the standard way of interstate familial transfers. I'm just asking if there is a section in the law that states "an application to purchase".
And you're right @kemasa I'm just a guy asking questions and trying to get a better understanding of the Law.
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  #102  
Old 12-09-2016, 9:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mwfillmore View Post
I understand DROS means (dealer record of sale) but I've still been searching for the penal code that actually defines DROS. Don't get me wrong I accept that this is the standard way of interstate familial transfers. I'm just asking if there is a section in the law that states "an application to purchase".
And you're right @kemasa I'm just a guy asking questions and trying to get a better understanding of the Law.
I quoted the PC for you in post 99 - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...6&postcount=99
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There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

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  #103  
Old 12-09-2016, 9:25 PM
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Thank you. I missed that
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  #104  
Old 12-23-2016, 12:46 PM
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Does anyone know any FFL's that do the interstate intrafamilial transfers in Marin or North Bay?

I won't need it till next month, but I am currently getting my ducks in a row: FSC, proper proof of residency (not listed on my current DL), things like that.
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  #105  
Old 12-23-2016, 8:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ZPN View Post
Does anyone know any FFL's that do the interstate intrafamilial transfers in Marin or North Bay?

I won't need it till next month, but I am currently getting my ducks in a row: FSC, proper proof of residency (not listed on my current DL), things like that.
I don't know about up in your area, but we do it if you want to venture down to East Bay.

http://ugimports.com/howto-transfer

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  #106  
Old 12-24-2016, 1:28 PM
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Looks like I will be giving you guys a call in a couple weeks. Thanks
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  #107  
Old 01-04-2017, 11:38 AM
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Super helpful thread. I'm having difficulty finding a California friendly FFL in Oklahoma, preferably in the Muskogee/Broken Arrow/Tulsa area that will do this. If Anyone has dealt with FFL's out there, it would be greatly appreciated. My father has some hand guns he wants to pass on to me and is having trouble finding anyone willing to ship out here. California isn't looked upon highly in the area if you catch my drift =)
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  #108  
Old 01-04-2017, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by emmortal View Post
Super helpful thread. I'm having difficulty finding a California friendly FFL in Oklahoma, preferably in the Muskogee/Broken Arrow/Tulsa area that will do this. If Anyone has dealt with FFL's out there, it would be greatly appreciated. My father has some hand guns he wants to pass on to me and is having trouble finding anyone willing to ship out here. California isn't looked upon highly in the area if you catch my drift =)
Find an FFL that will accept from private party and cut out the dealer in OK. If you're in the Bay Area we do it. We're also listed on shipmygun.com which makes it easier for individuals to ship as well.

Follow our transfer process if we can help - http://ugimports.com/howto-transfer
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  #109  
Old 01-04-2017, 1:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emmortal View Post
Super helpful thread. I'm having difficulty finding a California friendly FFL in Oklahoma, preferably in the Muskogee/Broken Arrow/Tulsa area that will do this. If Anyone has dealt with FFL's out there, it would be greatly appreciated. My father has some hand guns he wants to pass on to me and is having trouble finding anyone willing to ship out here. California isn't looked upon highly in the area if you catch my drift =)
As said, find a FFL that will accept the firearm from a private party. There are two main reasons for shipping through a FFL. The first is that the receiving FFL may not want to accept a firearm from a private party. The second is that the cost of shipping can be lower for a handgun since a FFL can ship USPS which is typically much cheaper than UPS/FedEx ($20 vs $50). Insurance can change that though.

I hope you realize that while an intrafamilial transfer is exempt from the certified list, having it go through a FFL means it is not exempt from the 1 in 30 for handguns.
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  #110  
Old 01-04-2017, 1:18 PM
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Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
As said, find a FFL that will accept the firearm from a private party. There are two main reasons for shipping through a FFL. The first is that the receiving FFL may not want to accept a firearm from a private party. The second is that the cost of shipping can be lower for a handgun since a FFL can ship USPS which is typically much cheaper than UPS/FedEx ($20 vs $50). Insurance can change that though.

I hope you realize that while an intrafamilial transfer is exempt from the certified list, having it go through a FFL means it is not exempt from the 1 in 30 for handguns.
I'm in SoCal. Thanks for the above info as well, didn't realize that interstate intrafamilial transfers can be done from a private party out of state. I could have sworn I read that interstate transfers had to be done FFL to FFL, it was only intrastate transfers that could go from private party to FFL.
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Old 01-04-2017, 1:42 PM
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I'm in SoCal. Thanks for the above info as well, didn't realize that interstate intrafamilial transfers can be done from a private party out of state. I could have sworn I read that interstate transfers had to be done FFL to FFL, it was only intrastate transfers that could go from private party to FFL.
What part of SoCal?

You can get wrong answers all the time on the Internet. There are some FFLs who won't accept firearms from a private party and some who say that it is illegal, but that is not the truth.
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Old 01-04-2017, 1:52 PM
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Originally Posted by kemasa View Post
What part of SoCal?

You can get wrong answers all the time on the Internet. There are some FFLs who won't accept firearms from a private party and some who say that it is illegal, but that is not the truth.
Yea, I recall a meme some years ago that said something like "I read it on the internet, so it must be true!" Being very facetious of course.

I'm in LA/San Fernando Valley
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Old 01-04-2017, 1:55 PM
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Yea, I recall a meme some years ago that said something like "I read it on the internet, so it must be true!" Being very facetious of course.
That replaced the line that I know it is true because I read it in the newspaper.

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I'm in LA/San Fernando Valley
Willing to come to Simi Valley?
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Old 01-05-2017, 10:56 AM
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That replaced the line that I know it is true because I read it in the newspaper.



Willing to come to Simi Valley?
Possibly, sent you a PM.
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Old 01-10-2017, 2:56 PM
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I know of MANY - Aces in West Covina just received one for me $25 receiving fee & $25 DROS.
Do you know of any in Orange county area? i am close to knotts berry farm.
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Old 01-10-2017, 2:57 PM
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Also, Is From Grandfather, to grandson okay?
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Old 01-10-2017, 3:36 PM
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Also, Is From Grandfather, to grandson okay?
Yes.

See the sticky: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1058641
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Old 01-10-2017, 3:51 PM
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Thank you Librarian. If anyone knows of a friendly place to do this kind of transfer in the orange county area, I would appreciate the heads up.
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Old 01-13-2017, 5:46 PM
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Thank you Librarian. If anyone knows of a friendly place to do this kind of transfer in the orange county area, I would appreciate the heads up.
Orange County covers a lot of territory. Which part? Possible is Rifle Gear in Fountain Valley. I believe someone said O.C. Armory in Laguna Hills knows how to handle them.
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Old 01-17-2017, 12:00 PM
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Default Looking for help with an out of state interfamilial transfer

I am in Redondo Beach, Ca, and am in need of an FFL that can help me with this. I called a few local places and they gave me what I believe to be wrong information. They said that all I need to do is go through the DOJ. I am being gifted an off roster handgun, from my father who lives in Georgia. He will be here at the end of February, and can bring it with him if it makes it easier. We can both be at the FFL together.

Thank you, and am looking forward to the help on this.
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