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  #1  
Old 03-07-2014, 6:40 PM
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Default EP Armory raided by ATF (Bakersfield, Mar 7 2014)

In local news... http://www.turnto23.com/news/local-n...nd-home-030714

I had a feeling this would definitely happen after they posted that video where it APPEARS as though they're using 30 rounders in BBd rifles. Again that's appears. Not sure if that's what happened. Nor if it was in CA. Buuut...yeeeeaaah...

Last edited by bigb0886; 03-07-2014 at 6:46 PM.. Reason: Typo
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  #2  
Old 03-07-2014, 6:49 PM
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ATF is federal ergo CA specific non-compliance should be a CA DOJ jurisdiction issue.

ATF usually means really bad 4473's ie bad paperwork, NFA items, improper sales etc.
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Old 03-07-2014, 6:49 PM
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ATF is federal and bullet buttons are state law. I doubt the ATF works be involved if that was the issue.

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Old 03-07-2014, 6:50 PM
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I'd like to point out that my typo wasn't even IBFP.... He popped out of a basement I didn't even know I had to correct me...
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  #5  
Old 03-07-2014, 6:53 PM
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10-20 and 10-30s look like hi caps
link shows location
BAKERSFIELD, Calif
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  #6  
Old 03-07-2014, 6:54 PM
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I know. I'm just saying...in the video I saw I heard a looot of shots going off. Again. It's alleged. It probably was legal. But I had a feeling it would draw scrutiny.
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Old 03-07-2014, 7:18 PM
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The linked TV report in the first post alleges an employee was selling full auto firearms.
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Old 03-07-2014, 8:05 PM
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Glad to see the ATF has shut them down.
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  #9  
Old 03-07-2014, 8:06 PM
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Glad to see the ATF has shut them down.
Why?
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  #10  
Old 03-07-2014, 8:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
Why?
Shaddy company selling out of spec product with no warranty nor refund.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=840960
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  #11  
Old 03-08-2014, 5:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RookieShooter View Post
Glad to see the ATF has shut them down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
Why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RookieShooter View Post
Shaddy company selling out of spec product with no warranty nor refund.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=840960
I prefer to see a company go out of business naturally due to their shoddy products and service, rather than getting the .GOV involved.
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Old 03-07-2014, 8:27 PM
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The "news" video mentions that class III might be a concern.
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  #13  
Old 03-07-2014, 10:07 PM
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Very very interesting, tagged to see further updates.
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Old 03-07-2014, 10:09 PM
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tagged! Curious to see where it goes.
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  #15  
Old 03-07-2014, 10:25 PM
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Chris is a good guy. I'd be beyond surprised if he did anything intentionally wrong. This is probably about a paperwork error.
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  #16  
Old 03-08-2014, 10:33 AM
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Well, good thing my blemished lowers don't have a warranty...
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  #17  
Old 03-08-2014, 12:25 PM
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Just thinking out-loud...

say a lower was offspec enough might create an NFA issue unintentionally with NON-NFA parts.
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  #18  
Old 03-08-2014, 12:43 PM
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Default different machining

Quote:
Originally Posted by repoman1984 View Post
Just thinking out-loud...

say a lower was offspec enough might create an NFA issue unintentionally with NON-NFA parts.
You can google images to see the difference between a semi auto and a full auto gun...

for a manufacturer to add extra machining on accident- impossible-
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  #19  
Old 03-08-2014, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
You can google images to see the difference between a semi auto and a full auto gun...

for a manufacturer to add extra machining on accident- impossible-
this. I cant believe this even has to be said
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  #20  
Old 03-08-2014, 1:11 PM
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Quote:
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this. I cant believe this even has to be said
the plastic lowers I have have the "extra" step done,so do some aluminum ones like stag
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  #21  
Old 03-08-2014, 1:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12voltguy View Post
the plastic lowers I have have the "extra" step done,so do some aluminum ones like stag
There was no sear hole drilled into these lowers
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  #22  
Old 03-08-2014, 1:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
You can google images to see the difference between a semi auto and a full auto gun...

for a manufacturer to add extra machining on accident- impossible-
Actually no.

Google it. There has been at least one widely known case I know of a semi-AR having a malfunction that warranted LE action. for example improper distance between the hammer and sear can lead to a "shock" sensitive situation causing a hammer to prematurely fall say if the bolt returns to battery. This is not "FA" this is a "runaway gun" the ATF does not distinguish between this difference as far as I know.


Judge for yourselves, this source is not a typically progun
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/bes...ef=videosearch
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Last edited by repoman1984; 03-08-2014 at 1:15 PM..
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  #23  
Old 03-11-2014, 9:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by repoman1984 View Post
Actually no.

Google it. There has been at least one widely known case I know of a semi-AR having a malfunction that warranted LE action. for example improper distance between the hammer and sear can lead to a "shock" sensitive situation causing a hammer to prematurely fall say if the bolt returns to battery. This is not "FA" this is a "runaway gun" the ATF does not distinguish between this difference as far as I know.


Judge for yourselves, this source is not a typically progun
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/bes...ef=videosearch
had David Olofson actually had a malfunctioning gun I would agree with your statement. however the evidence did not support the claim that his rifle had a "one off" malfunction. I seem to remember he actually had m16 parts (other than bolt carrier) in the rifle. But even IF he didn't an my memory is wrong and the rifle really was defective, the fact that he left it as is (defective) was a very poor choice on his part.

I challenge anyone to find a case of a "one off" malfunction that resulted in 1 pull of the trigger discharging 2 or more rounds that was handled properly and yet resulted in arrest and conviction.
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  #24  
Old 03-08-2014, 1:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
You can google images to see the difference between a semi auto and a full auto gun...

for a manufacturer to add extra machining on accident- impossible-
However..... if some one "accidentally " smoothed the the trigger catch on the hammer a little too much, or it came from the factory like so.. then you would get a full auto effect. Only you can't stop.. the only way it stops is when you run out of ammo. This is why you test fire with only one round. Then move to two rounds.

From experience
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  #25  
Old 03-08-2014, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by repoman1984 View Post
Just thinking out-loud...

say a lower was offspec enough might create an NFA issue unintentionally with NON-NFA parts.
wow.

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  #26  
Old 03-08-2014, 12:46 PM
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ATF doesn't raid places over a couple accidental paperwork errors...
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Old 03-08-2014, 1:11 PM
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Quote:
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ATF doesn't raid places over a couple accidental paperwork errors...
Exactly. Nor are they concerned with Calif state issues either.
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Old 03-15-2014, 3:57 PM
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Quote:
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ATF doesn't raid places over a couple accidental paperwork errors...
You obviously dont know the ATF then. Cause they do and have raided many law abiding citizens. Theres plenty of notable examples of them going after paperwork and not harden criminals. I.e. FpsRussia is the most notable fairly recent raid.

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Old 03-08-2014, 12:49 PM
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Also surprising that it was that close after opening. I didn't see them for a year.

Seeing as they allowed him to reopen it can't be all that bad.
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Old 03-08-2014, 1:02 PM
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Karma is a B!@%H
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Old 03-08-2014, 1:31 PM
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Karma is a B!@%H
This...
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Old 03-08-2014, 1:09 PM
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Either the ghost-gun serial number issue, or the semi-to-fully auto conversion issue, must have triggered the raid. Before there is a raid, usually there is a buy of some kind made. It usually takes more than an informant alone. Since ATF allowed him to re-open, sounds like they did not find what they were looking for though. And that sounds like the raid was a big mistake.

Tagging this to follow it for subsequent events.
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  #33  
Old 03-08-2014, 1:43 PM
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my wild arse guess is they do not have a letter from BATFE for there "80%" seeing that KT ord was busted years ago for dimpling the FCG hole and EP lower seem to have the holes marked also

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  #34  
Old 03-10-2014, 5:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRH View Post
Yes, I hope they submitted their product for tech branch evaluation as a non-firearm before offering it for sale. There is a difference between cutting and forming the FCG pocket in metal where it does not existing already and just removing a polymer filler material from an already formed FCG pocket. On the completion video I saw the filler material seemed to just peel away once the majority of it was ground out. It looks like the no-jig poly lowers are no longer for sale any where.
There is no difference between removing material from a one piece casting or removing the base material from a 2 piece casting. I highly doubt that EPA or any other poly lower maker would first cast a lower and then fill in the FCG pocket. Instead, and the only way to legally make it not a firearm, would be to use what you are calling "filler" as base material and then cast a second color material around it.
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  #35  
Old 03-08-2014, 3:46 PM
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they specifically did not "dimple" they made raised areas but it is a problem with the polymer thingies

man i wish they didnt mold "auto" into them
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  #36  
Old 03-08-2014, 5:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bohoki View Post
they specifically did not "dimple" they made raised areas but it is a problem with the polymer thingies

man i wish they didnt mold "auto" into them



Molding "auto" into them isn't any more of a problem than it is for, say, Spike's to mark "auto" on some of their lowers. You notice how they didn't mark the position for the 4th hole on the polymer 80's? The "auto" marking is purely cosmetic.
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Old 03-08-2014, 6:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bohoki View Post
they specifically did not "dimple" they made raised areas but it is a problem with the polymer thingies

man i wish they didnt mold "auto" into them
they look raise and dimpled to me , but neither here nor there it has the FCG points on the lower and that was a issue that KT org dealt with and what contributed to the changes from the old "80%'s" to the current ones
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Old 03-08-2014, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeepers View Post
they look raise and dimpled to me , but neither here nor there it has the FCG points on the lower and that was a issue that KT org dealt with and what contributed to the changes from the old "80%'s" to the current ones
the reason the other ones were banned is because they had material removed in the act of dimpling

the raised then concave are above the final surface

i would like to know why they pulled the polymers other than the dad gum rear takedown pin hole being too damn high


mine started out as a pistol but i put a rifle upper on it and am using a rifle buffer cause i dont want it to break like a couple other people's have

Last edited by bohoki; 03-08-2014 at 10:30 PM..
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  #39  
Old 03-08-2014, 5:00 PM
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Oh man this is interesting

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Old 03-08-2014, 9:34 PM
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Authorities made no arrests, but confiscated the owners laptop and cell phone.
The store was open for business later the same day.
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