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  #1  
Old 10-17-2020, 9:43 AM
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Default AR Pistol and Carbine Love!

I see handgun and rifle threads, How about a Carbine and AR pistol thread.

I find it interesting when people say AR Pistol "Bad" and SBR "Good". Other than the stock, Please explain to me why AR pistols are only considered range toys and SBR's are considered HD weapons.

I am learning about the AR pistol platform, and would appreciate others sharing experiences or information on modifications to make it better. Currently have an ARmaglock and running their dual rear pin. Put a little oil on it but it is still sticky. Was wondering if anyone knows a better way to get this thing to open and close a little easier for mag changes.

I have a CA7 with a radial delayed blowback 9mm upper and locked mag. Dislike the maglock but I love the AR Pistol! Currently, only running iron sights I am looking into a red dot purchase, just haven't pulled the trigger yet.
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  #2  
Old 10-17-2020, 9:51 AM
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I do NOT support AR Maglock. They bully and file lawsuits against anyone who tries to help CA gun owners. My local gun shop (Bastiani Arms, of Redding CA) Tried to create a maglock device that would cost $5. I spoke to the owner about the plan. He had no intentions of becoming rich off of it. His entire motive was to show the masses that “assault weapons” are just like any other rifle, and they are a practical weapon for home defense. AR Maglock filed a lawsuit over a piece they themselves did not create. AR Maglock has bullied and railroaded a few different companies who are trying to simply help us here in CA. Competition in any market provokes better technology, lower cost. Competition is what free enterprise is all about. The lawsuit filed was a joke, AR maglock would have lost, however Bastiani didn’t have the $150K to put up to fight it.

That said, I suggest Cross Armory. I have the Juggernaut Hellfighter Kit on mine, and it works well enough, however I think Cross Armory out of SD has the best system.
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Old 10-17-2020, 10:49 AM
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AR mag lock looks like a bust to me, you can remove the mag with a single allen screw without opening the action. At least the latest Gen, not sure what gotcha the other gens have. Honestly it looks like the same could be said for cross armory.

AR pistol is a range toy in CA because unless you are willing to risk your freedom and gun rights (forever) running a maybe-legal mag lock, the real mag locks can make loading and malfunction clearing a joke.

In free states - no I would not call a AR pistol a range toy, it is a very viable firearm.
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Old 10-17-2020, 12:25 PM
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I have a gen 2 with the dual pin, and the dual pin can be difficult to close after mag change. I will look into a cross armory system. I had no idea that ARmaglock was a bad company. I was too excited to use my cmmg upper and needed a "do it yourself" maglock for those with few tools.

I just don't understand California laws. You can drop mags with a featureless, You can't drop mags with features, don't both have the capability to allow someone to do evil things with it. Waiting for my Title I, should be two years when the state loses that battle!

I suppose I can find some gratitude in that lawmakers found a way to appease their constituents with laws while still making it possible for me to own what I want with a few hoops to jump. However, it is really annoying to have to open and close the action in order to do a mag change.

I can see why a carbine may have been a better choice for a first semi auto in my slowly growing collection.

Please Help to Repeal and Replace the Gubnor! Since this is a liberal state, maybe we can find a democrat like a Joe Leiberman, who is 2A friendly and slip him on the ballot. Stop all these executive orders and infringement laws from this Narcissist Gubnor.

These executive orders that are being pumped from Scabin are ridiculous!
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Old 10-17-2020, 1:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybot View Post
I have a gen 2 with the dual pin, and the dual pin can be difficult to close after mag change. I will look into a cross armory system. I had no idea that ARmaglock was a bad company. I was too excited to use my cmmg upper and needed a "do it yourself" maglock for those with few tools.

I just don't understand California laws. You can drop mags with a featureless, You can't drop mags with features, don't both have the capability to allow someone to do evil things with it. Waiting for my Title I, should be two years when the state loses that battle!

I suppose I can find some gratitude in that lawmakers found a way to appease their constituents with laws while still making it possible for me to own what I want with a few hoops to jump. However, it is really annoying to have to open and close the action in order to do a mag change.

I can see why a carbine may have been a better choice for a first semi auto in my slowly growing collection.

Please Help to Repeal and Replace the Gubnor! Since this is a liberal state, maybe we can find a democrat like a Joe Leiberman, who is 2A friendly and slip him on the ballot. Stop all these executive orders and infringement laws from this Narcissist Gubnor.

These executive orders that are being pumped from Scabin are ridiculous!
I'm sure you know this already, but just to reiterate, the state legislators did not write the laws thinking they were forcing you to go featureless or fixed mag, being gracious by giving you a "way out". They wrote them with the intention that you would not have the rifle or firearm at all. They want the laws to be so onerous and difficult to comply with that you will give up or it will be impossible or impractical to comply. It was some industrious person or people that came up with ways to comply with the letter of the law that we have our rifles in these various builds. Were it up to the legislators we would have no rifles at all.
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  #6  
Old 10-17-2020, 3:49 PM
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Skybot, i can’t speak for other people, but the maglock ( 10rd limit, slower reloads, could be hard to clear some malfunctions (like brass over bolt) without tools) knocks the AR pistol out of contention for me for HD in CA

If I were not in Ca, I would get an SBR tax stamp so I could use a stock (better recoil management resulting in faster follow up shots) and have short barrel maneuverability ( and use subs and can)

Is the ca7 your only gun? My $0.02 would be to put a rifle upper and go featureless
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Old 10-17-2020, 4:33 PM
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I run the maglatch lock on my AR pistol. Use it with 10 round p mags so I can drop the floor plate if necessary. I also have a law folder on it that makes mag changes a pain I'm the butt cuz of the bcg extension plug. Get yourself a mean arms or bear flag loader and reload thru the election port.
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Old 10-17-2020, 4:42 PM
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Here’s mine. I purchased this as a ppt. It was originally a 7.5” barrel Phase 5 pistol, the original upper which I ended up selling and bought the DD mk18 10.3” barrel. Then removed the flash hider and added a surefire brake and warden combo. It’s much nicer shooting this setup than the 7.5”. It still has its original raddlock bullet button and can now use 30 or 40 round mags



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Old 10-17-2020, 4:47 PM
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I’m kinda warming up to my CA7 as a version of the Remington XP100 (you know that space gun one with the nylon wood-look grip?) and have left the stock barrel. Still meaning to add a brace at some point.
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Old 10-17-2020, 4:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
AR mag lock looks like a bust to me, you can remove the mag with a single allen screw without opening the action. At least the latest Gen, not sure what gotcha the other gens have. Honestly it looks like the same could be said for cross armory.

AR pistol is a range toy in CA because unless you are willing to risk your freedom and gun rights (forever) running a maybe-legal mag lock, the real mag locks can make loading and malfunction clearing a joke.

In free states - no I would not call a AR pistol a range toy, it is a very viable firearm.
Agree 100%.

What folks don't realize is the SBA4 brace is a game changer. I see no difference shooting my AR pistol with the SBA4 brace or SBR.
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  #11  
Old 10-17-2020, 8:29 PM
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Originally Posted by naz View Post
Skybot, i can’t speak for other people, but the maglock ( 10rd limit, slower reloads, could be hard to clear some malfunctions (like brass over bolt) without tools) knocks the AR pistol out of contention for me for HD in CA

If I were not in Ca, I would get an SBR tax stamp so I could use a stock (better recoil management resulting in faster follow up shots) and have short barrel maneuverability ( and use subs and can)

Is the ca7 your only gun? My $0.02 would be to put a rifle upper and go featureless
Hi Naz, My other firearm is a revolver, my Dad gave it to me in the 90s. Never thought I would need or want anything else, and then I got bit by the bug.
So My only home defense was a 5 shot revolver, and now I have a 10 shot pistol caliber AR. That gives me 15 shots before a reload. Not good for the Zombie apocalypse but it's a start.

I am thinking that a Carbine or Glock 34 might be in my future. I have to say that loading glock magazines past the 6th cartridge is very hard for me. I need to do a little weight training or something. However, with the CMMG 9mm conversion mag, loading is VERY easy.
I have some time to experiment with different weapons at the range, but any advice in weapon choice would be welcomed. If I change the upper on my CA7 to a 16" barrel, does that mean that I can't put the CMMG 8" barrel on it, again? Not sure how that whole pistol lower versus rifle lower law affects that.
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Old 10-17-2020, 8:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Skybot View Post
Hi Naz, My other firearm is a revolver, my Dad gave it to me in the 90s. Never thought I would need or want anything else, and then I got bit by the bug.
So My only home defense was a 5 shot revolver, and now I have a 10 shot pistol caliber AR. That gives me 15 shots before a reload. Not good for the Zombie apocalypse but it's a start.

I am thinking that a Carbine or Glock 34 might be in my future. I have to say that loading glock magazines past the 6th cartridge is very hard for me. I need to do a little weight training or something. However, with the CMMG 9mm conversion mag, loading is VERY easy.
I have some time to experiment with different weapons at the range, but any advice in weapon choice would be welcomed. If I change the upper on my CA7 to a 16" barrel, does that mean that I can't put the CMMG 8" barrel on it, again? Not sure how that whole pistol lower versus rifle lower law affects that.
You can convert your ar pistol to a rifle and back by snapping on different uppers as much as you want.

I am super biased in favor of featureless AR + g34 combo. If you are located in norcal you are welcome to try mine at the range. Just shoot me a PM

Me too on the loading of 10rd Glock mags. I don’t bother trying to be a hero about it and I use either an ets “strip loader” or the small plastic pusher thing that Glock puts into the box

In my friend group, cz sp01, hk usp, g34 and double stacked 1911 seem to be the “popular” semi auto handguns.

How has the reliability been with your cmmg 9mm pcc upper and conversion mags? I got talked out of that setup in another thread and am in the middle of dros for a dedicated 9mm lower
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  #13  
Old 10-17-2020, 9:03 PM
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You can convert your ar pistol to a rifle and back by snapping on different uppers as much as you want.

I am super biased in favor of featureless AR + g34 combo. If you are located in norcal you are welcome to try mine at the range. Just shoot me a PM

Me too on the loading of 10rd Glock mags. I don’t bother trying to be a hero about it and I use either an ets “strip loader” or the small plastic pusher thing that Glock puts into the box

In my friend group, cz sp01, hk usp, g34 and double stacked 1911 seem to be the “popular” semi auto handguns.

How has the reliability been with your cmmg 9mm pcc upper and conversion mags? I got talked out of that setup in another thread and am in the middle of dros for a dedicated 9mm lower
I think that I should just get another lower so that I can keep my maglocked pistol for the 8" barrel cmmg upper.
Should I get a rifle lower and put together an upper for a featureless or is it less expensive to just get a featureless and make changes as needed?


Naz, I LOVE THE CMMG UPPER AND CONVERSION MAGS! I am no expert, but they have run flawlessly. They are so fun that it made me realize how much i really don't like the 10 round mag limit. It's like Weeeeeee, ohh, When the Weee could be so much longer.

Reliability has been flawless. Of course I have only about 600 rounds through it. As I said, loading the conversion mag is easy. The only problem that might occur besides a jam, is not having access to easily interchangeable mags.
I bought 4 conversion mags which should hold me over for a little while.

I am in southern California, I feel like I am behind the iron curtain of the iron curtain, Los Angeles County.

Last edited by Skybot; 10-17-2020 at 9:15 PM..
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Old 10-17-2020, 10:50 PM
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I think that I should just get another lower so that I can keep my maglocked pistol for the 8" barrel cmmg upper.
Should I get a rifle lower and put together an upper for a featureless or is it less expensive to just get a featureless and make changes as needed?


Naz, I LOVE THE CMMG UPPER AND CONVERSION MAGS! I am no expert, but they have run flawlessly.

I am in southern California, I feel like I am behind the iron curtain of the iron curtain, Los Angeles County.
Norcal not much better LGS getting pushed out of the urban areas

Yea, I think getting a lower to build up into a featureless rifle is a great idea.

Personally, I think getting a bunch of small frame, large frame and 9mm AR pcc frame is good just in case rules change.

Anderson small frame stripped lower are like $50 , or you can buy some complete aero small frame and large frame lowers and put on the fin and stock pinning strip when you are ready
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Old 10-17-2020, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
AR mag lock looks like a bust to me, you can remove the mag with a single allen screw without opening the action. At least the latest Gen, not sure what gotcha the other gens have. Honestly it looks like the same could be said for cross armory.

AR pistol is a range toy in CA because unless you are willing to risk your freedom and gun rights (forever) running a maybe-legal mag lock, the real mag locks can make loading and malfunction clearing a joke.

In free states - no I would not call a AR pistol a range toy, it is a very viable firearm.
Bingo. Exactly right. I'd love to have one, but in Commiefornia they are useless IMHO.

BTW you cannot own an SBR here in the commie State.

Just get another lower and build featureless. I use the Sparrow grip and Strike Industries stock stop. Do not use a flash hider, but a muzzle break is OK.

Last edited by ScottsBad; 10-17-2020 at 11:04 PM..
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Old 10-18-2020, 1:40 AM
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I dont understand why people say AR Pistols are just 'range toys". SF are running short barreled MK18's and HK416's for CQB. The people who say these short barreled are "range toys" obviously have no training or experiences in trying to clear a room or shoot from a vehicle with a 16 inch+. It's difficult, but with training it can be done. But it is a lot easier with a short barrel. I dont know where the argument or debate is, besides maybe less foot pounds, accuracy, range, but if youre not going to engage a target beyond self defense distances, then a short barreled is more than capable to handle business. I suggest Cross Armory quick pins for quicker opening and reloads.
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Old 10-18-2020, 3:54 AM
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I wanted an AR pistol for a while (ULTIMATE vehicle defense in a SHTF/Gauntlet situation!), but gassing one correctly, and their finickiness with ammo, made me shy away for years. Until the piston came along.




NOT an AR, but accomplishes the same purpose. With AR mags.
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Old 10-18-2020, 5:35 AM
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Mine works just fine. And yes i have an AR mag lock. Aero 10.5 upper .EDS tactical lower ,Geissele super 42 spring/ h1 buffer .Just added a Aero Adj. gas block.Little over 500rds since the gas block install not 1 issue..
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Old 10-18-2020, 7:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Skybot View Post
I see handgun and rifle threads, How about a Carbine and AR pistol thread.

I find it interesting when people say AR Pistol "Bad" and SBR "Good". Other than the stock, Please explain to me why AR pistols are only considered range toys and SBR's are considered HD weapons[?]
Since no one has deigned to answer your original question, I'll give it a shot.

"PC 33215 is California’s statute governing short-barreled rifles and sawed-off shotguns. According to this code section, it is a crime if any person:

manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun…

As to possession, California courts have ruled that a person can be guilty of this crime even if the rifle or shotgun is broken down into component parts. This is provided, though, that the firearm can be quickly assembled."

https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/pe...in-california/

So it's kind of a moot point in CA. SBRs are illegal in CA unless you have a special license from the DOJ to possess one, which, for all intents and purposes is never going to happen.

The only real difference between a pistol and SBR IS the stock. But, the addition of the stock allows you to shoulder the gun and complete a more solid triangle between you and the gun. The added stability could mean the difference between a hit and a miss when under the stress of a HD situation.
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Old 10-18-2020, 7:28 AM
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I dont understand why people say AR Pistols are just 'range toys". SF are running short barreled MK18's and HK416's for CQB. The people who say these short barreled are "range toys" obviously have no training or experiences in trying to clear a room or shoot from a vehicle with a 16 inch+. It's difficult, but with training it can be done. But it is a lot easier with a short barrel. I dont know where the argument or debate is, besides maybe less foot pounds, accuracy, range, but if youre not going to engage a target beyond self defense distances, then a short barreled is more than capable to handle business. I suggest Cross Armory quick pins for quicker opening and reloads.
Mk18 cqbr's and HK416's are SBRs, not pistols.
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Old 10-18-2020, 8:13 AM
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Mk18 cqbr's and HK416's are SBRs, not pistols.
Specifically mag locked , theres no Featureless option with Ar/Ak pistols so 10 rds locked it is. I sold all of mine and Bought Mutiple M1a, Garands and couple pistols. When I move out of state or laws change in California. I will revisit the Ar pistol as it makes a great Firearm as intended with a legally Questionable mag lock I'll pass.
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Old 10-18-2020, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Skybot View Post
I find it interesting when people say AR Pistol "Bad" and SBR "Good". Other than the stock, Please explain to me why AR pistols are only considered range toys and SBR's are considered HD weapons.
I have BCM Recce-11, and a DD MK18. Both are RAW's, neither are toys, and I have no idea what a MagLock is.

I think most of the reference to them being range toys has more to do with all the budget-builds in California with sub-optimal barrel lengths in 5.56mm, not to mention the lack of knowledge regarding the platform.

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but if youre not going to engage a target beyond self defense distances, then a short barreled is more than capable to handle business.
Case in point. An SBR or purpose-built pistol can accurately shoot out to 600y, and remain lethal at that range.
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Old 10-18-2020, 10:26 AM
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Yes I understand the obvious, but the main reason why people in CA go AR Pistols is for the shorter length as we cannot get SBRs

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Mk18 cqbr's and HK416's are SBRs, not pistols.
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Old 10-18-2020, 3:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flavor View Post
I dont understand why people say AR Pistols are just 'range toys". SF are running short barreled MK18's and HK416's for CQB. The people who say these short barreled are "range toys" obviously have no training or experiences in trying to clear a room or shoot from a vehicle with a 16 inch+. It's difficult, but with training it can be done. But it is a lot easier with a short barrel. I dont know where the argument or debate is, besides maybe less foot pounds, accuracy, range, but if youre not going to engage a target beyond self defense distances, then a short barreled is more than capable to handle business. I suggest Cross Armory quick pins for quicker opening and reloads.
Hi Flavor,

I don't think that the Cross Armory Quick pins are legal on the AR Pistol. The problem being that once my action is closed up without a mag, I have committed a felony. I Think that I have to use a maglock that doesn't actually allow me to accidentally close the action without a mag in it.
Since the Pistol is in a gray area anyway, I would not want to make it any easier for my "Range Toy" to be confiscated. I love it too much, for that to happen.
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Old 10-18-2020, 4:33 PM
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I have not heard of this before. If youre worried, I would use a side loader like the Bear Flag BF-10, so that way you dont worry about opening/closing the action, and a mag is always locked.

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Hi Flavor,

I don't think that the Cross Armory Quick pins are legal on the AR Pistol. The problem being that once my action is closed up without a mag, I have committed a felony. I Think that I have to use a maglock that doesn't actually allow me to accidentally close the action without a mag in it.
Since the Pistol is in a gray area anyway, I would not want to make it any easier for my "Range Toy" to be confiscated. I love it too much, for that to happen.
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Old 10-18-2020, 5:22 PM
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Hi Flavor,

I don't think that the Cross Armory Quick pins are legal on the AR Pistol. The problem being that once my action is closed up without a mag, I have committed a felony. I Think that I have to use a maglock that doesn't actually allow me to accidentally close the action without a mag in it.
Since the Pistol is in a gray area anyway, I would not want to make it any easier for my "Range Toy" to be confiscated. I love it too much, for that to happen.


I"m not sure what you mean by this? You can close action and do anything with mag lock. The magazine can be inserted at any time. Magazine lock compliance devices are a thoroughly discussed topic here. The lock prevents the magazine from being ejected without the action being open; nothing locks out a magazine from being inserted.
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Old 10-18-2020, 11:28 PM
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I"m not sure what you mean by this? You can close action and do anything with mag lock. The magazine can be inserted at any time. Magazine lock compliance devices are a thoroughly discussed topic here. The lock prevents the magazine from being ejected without the action being open; nothing locks out a magazine from being inserted.
This is a gray area when it comes to an AR pistol versus an AR Rifle or Carbine.
Copied this from the CADOJ. This is the part of the law that one particular range master points out to me and I argue with him that my pistol is legal because....
Please notice the one part that I hope comes out in bold.

A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.

The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip. This is the statement that concerns me. Once my AR pistol is completely intact or closed and capable of firing And if I forgot to put in the mag, The pistol now has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip. It just needs the 'capacity to accept"...IF my upper and lower are separated, then it is not an illegal firearm. I can carry my semiautomatic upper separated from my lower and it is not legally a semi-automatic pistol that is banned until the upper and lower are attached. Once I close my upper and lower, my magazine better be in the magwell and locked so that it cannot have the "Capacity" to accept a detachable magazine.
A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds. In this scenario, if I do not have my fixed mag in the magwell, NOW my AR pistol has the "capacity" to accept a magazine with more than 10 rounds.

The guy at a particular range (the only range available when I am visiting Mom) worries that it is illegal to have a semi-auto AR pistol, and sometimes he has law enforcement hanging out in chit chatting. So, it makes me feel as though I need to be extra vigilant in order to protect my right to have the one firearm, I really wanted, AR15 with 9mm conversion.

Please correct me if my interpretation of the law is incorrect.

Oh and the issue of manufacturing an unsafe handgun is another concern (not in the part I copied and pasted) but since the word "May" is in the definition, it is a gray area with risks. One I am willing to accept, for now.

Last edited by Skybot; 10-18-2020 at 11:30 PM..
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Old 10-19-2020, 12:09 AM
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I have not heard of this before. If youre worried, I would use a side loader like the Bear Flag BF-10, so that way you dont worry about opening/closing the action, and a mag is always locked.
I don't think that there is a side loader for 9mm as I run the CMMG 9mm Conversion mags.
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Old 10-19-2020, 6:55 AM
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I too love my “large frame” pistols and SBRs to the point I’m starting to focus less on handguns. Yes, the 10 rd magazine limitation and a magazine lock would drive me crazy too. I can’t see a way out for you other than (1) move out of state, or (2) a repeal of the CA AW laws. Lucky are those who were able to register their pistols as BBRAWs in 2017.

The only relief that I can suggest to you is to take classes out of state so you can reverse the CA compliance mods at least temporarily.

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Old 10-19-2020, 7:40 AM
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This is a gray area when it comes to an AR pistol versus an AR Rifle or Carbine.
[snip] Once my AR pistol is completely intact or closed and capable of firing And if I forgot to put in the mag, The pistol now has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip. It just needs the 'capacity to accept"
And this is where you went sideways on your logic. With a pistol that has any type of mag lock, without the mag inserted, it does not have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine. It only has the capacity to accept a magazine which is fixed as soon as it is attached. Note that the wording of the law does not say "has the capacity to accept a magazine". Rather, it says, "has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine". There is a big difference in the wording.
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Last edited by moleculo; 10-19-2020 at 7:51 AM..
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Old 10-19-2020, 7:44 AM
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Currently have an ARmaglock and running their dual rear pin. Put a little oil on it but it is still sticky. Was wondering if anyone knows a better way to get this thing to open and close a little easier for mag changes.
I don't have in person experience with the ARMaglock rear pin system but I do with the Cross Armory version. That one was a bit sticky, too...even with the correct shims installed. What I did was figure out which side it was binding on and very lightly used a round file to free it up. It didn't take much so go slowly.
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Old 10-19-2020, 7:49 AM
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I don't have in person experience with the ARMaglock rear pin system but I do with the Cross Armory version. That one was a bit sticky, too...even with the correct shims installed. What I did was figure out which side it was binding on and very lightly used a round file to free it up. It didn't take much so go slowly.
Good Idea, I will take a look at the pin to see where it is binding. Thank You!
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Old 10-19-2020, 8:18 AM
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I have BCM Recce-11, and a DD MK18. Both are RAW's, neither are toys, and I have no idea what a MagLock is.

I think most of the reference to them being range toys has more to do with all the budget-builds in California with sub-optimal barrel lengths in 5.56mm, not to mention the lack of knowledge regarding the platform.



Case in point. An SBR or purpose-built pistol can accurately shoot out to 600y, and remain lethal at that range.
Fragmentation is not happening out at that range, but yes they do remain lethal. Just not really designed for that distance.


I also dont understand the its just a range toy mentality. At this point in California's game, everything is just a range toy. AR pistols or other firearm variants are the same as their full bodied siblings (which people dont seem to think are range toys). They have capability and effetiveness in what they are designed for, close in nasty fighting. Or in most civilian purposes, home defense.
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Old 10-19-2020, 3:49 PM
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Fragmentation is not happening out at that range, but yes they do remain lethal. Just not really designed for that distance.


I also dont understand the its just a range toy mentality. At this point in California's game, everything is just a range toy. AR pistols or other firearm variants are the same as their full bodied siblings (which people dont seem to think are range toys). They have capability and effetiveness in what they are designed for, close in nasty fighting. Or in most civilian purposes, home defense.
RAW AR pistol with std capacity mag and full functionality is a lot more desirable than maglock, 10rd.

Mag lock, 10rd version specifically is the one being discussed as “range toy only” in my comments.
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Old 10-19-2020, 5:02 PM
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Old 10-19-2020, 7:41 PM
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I see handgun and rifle threads, How about a Carbine and AR pistol thread.

I find it interesting when people say AR Pistol "Bad" and SBR "Good". Other than the stock, Please explain to me why AR pistols are only considered range toys and SBR's are considered HD weapons.
That's news to me. AR and AK pistols are certainly HD firearms for the same reason that SBR's are HD firearms. The "pistol" versions are merely a workaround for the NFA of 1934, whose "short barrel" provision is arguably not a good idea and a good candidate for repeal. If someone had an AR pistol, I would *NOT* want to be on the business end of it!
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Old 10-19-2020, 11:00 PM
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RAW AR pistol with std capacity mag and full functionality is a lot more desirable than maglock, 10rd.

Mag lock, 10rd version specifically is the one being discussed as “range toy only” in my comments.
I think everyone would love to have a RAW AR pistol. Or even better a non RAW At pistol in free world configuration. But my point how people think it ilia just a range toy in its neutered form, but don’t view a 16in barreled rifle the same way despite being in the same neutered form.
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Old 10-19-2020, 11:58 PM
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That's news to me. AR and AK pistols are certainly HD firearms for the same reason that SBR's are HD firearms. The "pistol" versions are merely a workaround for the NFA of 1934, whose "short barrel" provision is arguably not a good idea and a good candidate for repeal. If someone had an AR pistol, I would *NOT* want to be on the business end of it!
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Old 10-20-2020, 12:06 AM
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I think everyone would love to have a RAW AR pistol. Or even better a non RAW At pistol in free world configuration. But my point how people think it ilia just a range toy in its neutered form, but don’t view a 16in barreled rifle the same way despite being in the same neutered form.
I view any mag locked 10rd rifle as a range toy just the same as mag locked AR pistol. I make no distinction between the joke that either represents for anything other than range fun. My rifles are RAW or featureless.
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