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  #1  
Old 04-23-2017, 11:36 AM
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Default Out of State LEO - Carrying under LEOSA

Hello-

I am planning to visit California in the coming weeks and would like to bring my Glock along with me, though want to be sure I won't run into any issues.

This thread talks about LEOSA not covering larger capacity mags, though also references a court decision (People v. Hale) which advises combining the two allow for a conclusion that larger cap. mags are allowed to be brought in.

Do any CA LEOs or others have a definitive answer? Certainly wouldn't want to get jammed up because I bring the standard capacity 15 round mags that come with my Glock.

Any issues with hollow-point ammo, like NJ?

Can anybody advise if there is any extra steps to deal with when flying out of LAX? I've flown with guns hundreds of times, though never from a state with such draconian gun laws.

Lots of questions, though I appreciate any/all feedback ^
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Old 04-23-2017, 12:05 PM
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Anything over 10rds is a no go to bring in. Couple municipalities have hollow point laws. SF comes to mind.
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Old 04-23-2017, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolishMike View Post
Anything over 10rds is a no go to bring in. Couple municipalities have hollow point laws. SF comes to mind.
Well that blows... Looks like I'll be spending another $40, plus shipping, for some 10rd mags.

Planning to visit NY over the summer and certainly excited for all the "fun" to be had with carrying there..
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Old 04-23-2017, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSLEO View Post
Hello-

I am planning to visit California in the coming weeks and would like to bring my Glock along with me, though want to be sure I won't run into any issues.

This thread talks about LEOSA not covering larger capacity mags, though also references a court decision (People v. Hale) which advises combining the two allow for a conclusion that larger cap. mags are allowed to be brought in.

Do any CA LEOs or others have a definitive answer? Certainly wouldn't want to get jammed up because I bring the standard capacity 15 round mags that come with my Glock.

Any issues with hollow-point ammo, like NJ?

Can anybody advise if there is any extra steps to deal with when flying out of LAX? I've flown with guns hundreds of times, though never from a state with such draconian gun laws.

Lots of questions, though I appreciate any/all feedback ^
I had the same situation in reverse when I traveled to Chicago a few years ago. I checked my firearm and ammo and locked and loaded as soon as I was in my rental car. I never had any sort of contact with CPD while there but I carried a printout of the LEOSA in my pocket just in case.
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Old 04-23-2017, 2:17 PM
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I currently work in ca as an leo. Leo are exempt from the draconian high cap bans. I regularly carry my 15 rounds mags and fly in and out of the state with them. Most cops here expect other Leos to be ccw


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  #6  
Old 04-23-2017, 2:22 PM
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Honestly, I have had contact with several LEOs from around the country, and they have all been carrying under LEOSA. It is usually a patch swapping encounter or a station visit, and have never given any thought about their carry guns nor their magazine capacity. CA LEOs can have high capacity magazines, so it isn't a second thought when encountering blue family from other states.

I am very pro-gun, and myself don't believe in the differentiation between LEOs privileges, and what should be every citizen's rights (The roster, magazine restriction, 1 in 30, etc are all BS).
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Old 04-23-2017, 3:52 PM
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I have driven through all 48 states last year, almost 16,000 miles of it. I came in contact with several LEOs in casual contacts. Not one of them really cared about my guns that I carried.

I had my retired ID and LEOSA certificate card with me all the time, though.

Last edited by micro911; 04-23-2017 at 7:33 PM..
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Old 04-23-2017, 9:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micro911 View Post
I have driven through all 48 states last year, almost 16,000 miles of it. I came in contact with several LEOs in casual contacts. Not one of them really cared about my guns that I carried.

I had my retired ID and LEOSA certificate card with me all the time, though.


The good Ole "I can drive with a dead hooker in my trunk as long as my tail lights aren't out" defense.

He asked what the law is, not what you got away with on your road trip.


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Old 04-23-2017, 9:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolishMike View Post
The good Ole "I can drive with a dead hooker in my trunk as long as my tail lights aren't out" defense.

He asked what the law is, not what you got away with on your road trip.


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Not sure he got away with anything since he was legally carrying.
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  #10  
Old 04-24-2017, 8:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolishMike View Post
The good Ole "I can drive with a dead hooker in my trunk as long as my tail lights aren't out" defense.

He asked what the law is, not what you got away with on your road trip.


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  #11  
Old 04-24-2017, 9:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolishMike View Post
The good Ole "I can drive with a dead hooker in my trunk as long as my tail lights aren't out" defense.

He asked what the law is, not what you got away with on your road trip.


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That is so funny. Thank you.
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Old 04-24-2017, 9:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jq2180 View Post
I currently work in ca as an leo. Leo are exempt from the draconian high cap bans. I regularly carry my 15 rounds mags and fly in and out of the state with them. Most cops here expect other Leos to be ccw
I was never allowed to fly, armed, while going on vacation.

So basically now I can go to LAX with my G19 IWB and board a flight to Florida, no issues at all?
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Old 04-24-2017, 9:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Che762x39 View Post
I was never allowed to fly, armed, while going on vacation.

So basically now I can go to LAX with my G19 IWB and board a flight to Florida, no issues at all?



I can’t tell if you are intentionally misstating what JQ2180 said, making a joke or really do not understand his point. Nowhere in his comment about flying in and out of California did he indicate he carried his firearm on the plane. I too have flown in and out of California with a firearm and high capacity magazines. Always in checked luggage.

Last edited by 003; 04-24-2017 at 10:00 AM..
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  #14  
Old 04-24-2017, 9:51 AM
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LAX is pretty easy peasy with guns believe it or not. I've flown out of there several times and they do nothing more than the basic declaration sticker.

As to ur magazine question, I honestly don't quite know. I was always under the impression that if you're active duty you would be exempt like the rest of us are, but if you were retired, youde be subject to local laws which would restrict you to 10 rnds.

As the others have posted, you shouldn't have an issue with any LEO. I would be utterly shocked if a cop asked to even see ur gun much less inspect it. I've driven all through this state and others and have been pulled over more than a few times. I always notify the cop I'm carrying and I have yet to have any cop nationwide even bat an eye.
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Old 04-24-2017, 3:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinnamonBear723 View Post
LAX is pretty easy peasy with guns believe it or not. I've flown out of there several times and they do nothing more than the basic declaration sticker.

As to ur magazine question, I honestly don't quite know. I was always under the impression that if you're active duty you would be exempt like the rest of us are, but if you were retired, youde be subject to local laws which would restrict you to 10 rnds.

As the others have posted, you shouldn't have an issue with any LEO. I would be utterly shocked if a cop asked to even see ur gun much less inspect it. I've driven all through this state and others and have been pulled over more than a few times. I always notify the cop I'm carrying and I have yet to have any cop nationwide even bat an eye.
I guess the biggest issue would be with a prosecutor, etc., if I (or any out of state LEO) got into something while out there. This trip would be vacation, not work, so what I am reading makes it sound like I am SoL for regular cap. mags. I emailed CA DoJ to see if they could also shed any light on it.
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  #16  
Old 04-24-2017, 3:54 PM
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Like any good CA law, it's as clear as mud on a foggy day. If you don't get a response in a timely manner let me know. I have some phone numbers at my work desk for the firearms bureau at DOJ.
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  #17  
Old 04-24-2017, 4:07 PM
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Originally Posted by CinnamonBear723 View Post
Like any good CA law, it's as clear as mud on a foggy day. If you don't get a response in a timely manner let me know. I have some phone numbers at my work desk for the firearms bureau at DOJ.


It's perfectly clear. This isn't a confusing one here guys. Not sure what the issue is. It is very clear that a law enforcement officer from outside CA can not legally bring in a magazine over 10 rounds. PERIOD.

DOJ has published a memo on this.

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  #18  
Old 04-24-2017, 4:17 PM
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Here is one memo that covers it. #17. There is another one that goes more in depth but I can't find it on my phone.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/leosiss.pdf


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  #19  
Old 04-24-2017, 4:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolishMike View Post
The good Ole "I can drive with a dead hooker in my trunk as long as my tail lights aren't out" defense.

He asked what the law is, not what you got away with on your road trip.


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I carried my Shield 9mm, and a Glock 19 when I had the road trip. I had my retired ID that allows me to carry in California, and had the HR-218 LEOSA certificate with me when I traveled.

I was never stopped by an LEO on the road. However, I happened to talk to several officers in casual contacts, no one seemed to care about my pistols. In Chicago, I was allowed to go up the "tower" after I was waived around the metal detector. In New York, they allowed me to bypass the metal detector also for a famous attraction. In both instances, officers checked my ID, but did not even bother to check my pistol. Maybe I broke a high capacity magazine law, but I did not know.
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  #20  
Old 04-24-2017, 4:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micro911 View Post
I carried my Shield 9mm, and a Glock 19 when I had the road trip. I had my retired ID that allows me to carry in California, and had the HR-218 LEOSA certificate with me when I traveled.



I was never stopped by an LEO on the road. However, I happened to talk to several officers in casual contacts, no one seemed to care about my pistols. In Chicago, I was allowed to go up the "tower" after I was waived around the metal detector. In New York, they allowed me to bypass the metal detector also for a famous attraction. In both instances, officers checked my ID, but did not even bother to check my pistol. Maybe I broke a high capacity magazine law, but I did not know.


I know what you meant and that is plenty fine. I didn't mean to Attack you personally. I just meant when a person asks "is xxxx legal?" A response of "I do it all the time" is not sufficient.

Just like 99% of speeders do not get caught. Does it make it legal? No. Will you get caught? Probably not.


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  #21  
Old 04-24-2017, 4:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolishMike View Post
Anything over 10rds is a no go to bring in. Couple municipalities have hollow point laws. SF comes to mind.
Actually, San Francisco's Police Code 618 (or any other SF code) is not a law about hollow points. In fact, no where in the text of the law does it even reference "hollow point"

Quote:
SEC. 618. PROHIBITED AMMUNITION.
(a) Definition. For purposes of this Section, "Prohibited Ammunition" shall mean:
(1) Ammunition sold under the brand name "Winchester Black Talon," or that has physical properties resulting in ballistics performance identical to ammunition presently or formerly sold under the brand name Winchester Black Talon; or,
(2) Ammunition designated by its manufacturer for purchase by law enforcement or military agencies only, unless other ammunition is available to the general public that has physical properties resulting in ballistics performance identical to such ammunition.
What many people don't understand is that even some buckshot is illegal to possess in SF under this law. Both Hornady TAP and Federal Premium "Law Enforcement Ammunition Tactical" are included on the list of prohibited ammunition per SFPD's website and, both offer 12g 00 buckshot:

Quote:
On April 2013 the San Francisco Board of Supervisors enacted San Francisco Municipal Police Code 618. The following ammunition is prohibited in the City and County of San Francisco:

Winchester Black Talon

Federal Premium "Law Enforcement Ammunition Tactical"

Hornady "TAP (Tactical Application Police) Law Enforcement Ammunition"
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Old 04-24-2017, 4:51 PM
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Thanks for the corrections


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  #23  
Old 04-24-2017, 5:31 PM
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"There does not appear to be an exemption......" That is hardly clear cut.
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Old 04-24-2017, 5:34 PM
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12020 sections were also rewritten
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Old 04-24-2017, 10:55 PM
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I suggest this be read:

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...01520160SB1446
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Old 04-25-2017, 12:34 AM
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Based on the above, if your federal agency has issued you standard capacity magazins, then you are good to go in california.
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Old 04-25-2017, 9:20 AM
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"32400. Section 32310 does not apply to the sale of, giving of, lending of, possession of, importation into this state of, or purchase of, any large-capacity magazine to or by any federal, state, county, city and county, or city agency....."

This is the text of the new law. It does not specify that it has to be a CA peace officer.
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Old 04-25-2017, 11:30 AM
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Here's some literature from the CA AG's office I found a while back. Should clear up the question.

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/leosanew

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/leosiss.pdf (no date stamp on this one)

https://oag.ca.gov/search-results/?query=hr+218

Last edited by NuGunner; 04-27-2017 at 6:23 PM..
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Old 04-26-2017, 11:29 PM
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Just for fun, i conducted an informal survey of several members of my department from the lieutenants down, and I could not find a single person who:

1. cared
2. who take any form of enforcement action against you

Just fyi. Not condoning illegal activity, just sharing the results of my inquiry.
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Old 04-27-2017, 3:28 PM
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Just FYI, Hawaii has specific laws on handguns and magazines. Although most people ignore it I'm sure, you are required to register your handgun within 72 hours of entering the state, no LEO exemption. Any magazine holding more than 10 rounds can be charged as a felony, once again no LEO exemption.
Most officers there are not going to hassle you, but there's always that one guy...
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Old 04-28-2017, 4:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptMike View Post
Based on the above, if your federal agency has issued you standard capacity magazins, then you are good to go in california.
Maybe I wish I was a Fed....maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuGunner View Post
Here's some literature from the CA AG's office I found a while back. Should clear up the question.

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/leosanew

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/leosiss.pdf (no date stamp on this one)

https://oag.ca.gov/search-results/?query=hr+218
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CinnamonBear723 View Post
Just for fun, i conducted an informal survey of several members of my department from the lieutenants down, and I could not find a single person who:

1. cared
2. who take any form of enforcement action against you

Just fyi. Not condoning illegal activity, just sharing the results of my inquiry.
I appreciate it ^
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Old 06-09-2017, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wazafuzz View Post
Just FYI, Hawaii has specific laws on handguns and magazines. Although most people ignore it I'm sure, you are required to register your handgun within 72 hours of entering the state, no LEO exemption. Any magazine holding more than 10 rounds can be charged as a felony, once again no LEO exemption.
Most officers there are not going to hassle you, but there's always that one guy...
I went to Maui a month ago. I emailed the Firearms unit with Maui PD and got a PDF file with instructions from the Hawaii AG on carrying and registering a firearm. If you stay more than 5 days, you are required to register the firearm at their headquarters, under go a background check, photo and fingerprinting. No magazines over 10 rounds are permitted. It didn't mention anything restrictions on ammunition.

I stayed 6 days in Maui, did not enjoy myself and will never, ever visit Hawaii again.
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Old 06-09-2017, 7:17 AM
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Keep in mind that ammunition is covered by LEOSA, so as long as the ammunition is not illegal under federal law it is good to go in all States.

"(e) As used in this section--

(1) the term `firearm--

(2) includes ammunition not expressly prohibited by Federal law or subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act ; and”

Last edited by 003; 06-09-2017 at 7:21 AM..
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Old 06-09-2017, 5:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolishMike View Post
Anything over 10rds is a no go to bring in. Couple municipalities have hollow point laws. SF comes to mind.
LEOSA covers hollow point rounds following an amendment because of states like New Jersey.

HiCap mags have yet to be directly addressed, but several case law cases have included the magazine as part of the gun.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about it too much. I'm retired, but when working I never sweated an out of state LEO, even before LEOSA.
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Old 06-09-2017, 6:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 5.56 View Post
I went to Maui a month ago. I emailed the Firearms unit with Maui PD and got a PDF file with instructions from the Hawaii AG on carrying and registering a firearm. If you stay more than 5 days, you are required to register the firearm at their headquarters, under go a background check, photo and fingerprinting. No magazines over 10 rounds are permitted. It didn't mention anything restrictions on ammunition.

I stayed 6 days in Maui, did not enjoy myself and will never, ever visit Hawaii again.
I interpret that process as some sort of technical "compliance" with the LEOSA while simultaneously making the process so onerous that most LEO's won't bother.

It isn't much different than being forced by the courts to enact a LTC law and then making the process unbearable for anyone who tries.
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Old 06-09-2017, 6:09 PM
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The lack of consensus by by many responding LEO's here is quite a bellwether as to how impossibly vague some of our laws are to interpret and enforce correctly.
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Old 06-11-2017, 5:42 AM
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The lack of consensus by by many responding LEO's here is quite a bellwether as to how impossibly vague some of our laws are to interpret and enforce correctly.
Agreed 100%. And the more laws they create, the wider the range of understanding and enforcement.
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Old 06-16-2017, 2:08 AM
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Originally Posted by 5.56 View Post
I went to Maui a month ago. I emailed the Firearms unit with Maui PD and got a PDF file with instructions from the Hawaii AG on carrying and registering a firearm. If you stay more than 5 days, you are required to register the firearm at their headquarters, under go a background check, photo and fingerprinting. No magazines over 10 rounds are permitted. It didn't mention anything restrictions on ammunition.

I stayed 6 days in Maui, did not enjoy myself and will never, ever visit Hawaii again.
I just called Maui PD yesterday as well, as I'm slated for that island within a few weeks. Everything you said is correct. But you forgot to add that they also want a "cashiers check" ONLY for $42.00 to cover the fingerprinting crap. My problem is that they don't do this stuff on week ends which is when I arrive. It's a 45 minute drive to the police station from the place I'm staying at; and the lady told me to expect the process to take roughly 2 hrs!!!! Seriously, WTF???

So, naturally I'm not going to bother with a gun, which goes against everything I've ever stood for. But wasting time with all that and standing in the police station while my family waits around for me is insane. Screw Hawaii after this last trip.

I remember when bringing a gun to Hawaii was a non issue.
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  #39  
Old 06-16-2017, 6:26 PM
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As I've said in the past, I lived in Hawaii for many years, they are probably the most anti-gun place in the country. No matter the circumstances, if you are involved in an incident and shoot someone, you WILL be arrested and booked. They may not file charges but you are going to jail.
I knew when LEOSA was passed they would find a way to make it so onerous that no one would want to carry. The one thing I would tell you is that after you go through the registration process, you can bring the same gun with you everytime you visit. I still have a wheel gun I bought when I lived there-it's registered to me so I don't have to "re-register" it when I go over to visit my grandkids.
Look for California to go further this way if/when Newsom is Governor.
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Old 06-18-2017, 2:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wazafuzz View Post
As I've said in the past, I lived in Hawaii for many years, they are probably the most anti-gun place in the country. No matter the circumstances, if you are involved in an incident and shoot someone, you WILL be arrested and booked. They may not file charges but you are going to jail.
I knew when LEOSA was passed they would find a way to make it so onerous that no one would want to carry. The one thing I would tell you is that after you go through the registration process, you can bring the same gun with you everytime you visit. I still have a wheel gun I bought when I lived there-it's registered to me so I don't have to "re-register" it when I go over to visit my grandkids.
Look for California to go further this way if/when Newsom is Governor.
Oh man, you're right. When Newsom is Gov, we are indeed totally phucked!!!
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