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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#1201
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I spoke with the ATF directly last month and discussed this. Their response was that modifying a 50+ year old firearm to SBR/SBS removes it's C&R status and is manufacturing a "new" firearm.
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Check out our e-commerce site here: www.ebrworks.com Serving you from Prescott, AZ |
#1202
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Correct, it removes the C&R status as far as the feds are concerned. The feds do not care if a shotgun is C&R, not C&R, or built as an SBS from the start. They only want your $200. An SBS is not illegal on the federal level.
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"If Jesus had a gun he would be alive today"-Homer Simpson |
#1203
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Quote:
Justin
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[SIZE="4]For any questions contact me by email. Thanks, Justin[/SIZE] Quote:
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#1205
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BATFE NFA Branch will not approve a Form 1/4 for a SBR/SBS, unless the applicant has a valid Dangerous Weapons Permit for a SBR/SBS from the CA DOJ BOF. BATFE NFA Branch will approve a Form 4 for a C&R SBR/C&R SBS because a Dangerous Weapons Permit for a SBR/SBS is not required. Making a C&R rifle/C&R shotgun into a SBR/SBS, makes it a "modern" SBR/SBS and requires a Dangerous Weapons Permit.
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"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001). Last edited by Quiet; 11-09-2012 at 6:26 AM.. |
#1206
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"If Jesus had a gun he would be alive today"-Homer Simpson |
#1207
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And FYI the bit abut modifying a C&R and it loses C&R status refers to military firearms. A domestic C&R is still a C&R.
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"If Jesus had a gun he would be alive today"-Homer Simpson |
#1208
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So that means I can get an approval to turn an old Ithaca hunting shotgun into a SBS without it becoming modern?
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#1209
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We really need a SBS/AOW/SBR flowchart!
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"If Jesus had a gun he would be alive today"-Homer Simpson |
#1210
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no, we don't.
NFA stuff is so radioactive if you get it wrong that you have to KNOW the law, not just look at a flowchart.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#1212
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Did you have to pay again, or just wait longer?
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#1214
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wait longer. If they end up denying an app completely, you will get a refund.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#1215
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Sure is. It used to be anyone could make any gun with just one form. I miss freedom.
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"If Jesus had a gun he would be alive today"-Homer Simpson |
#1216
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Ok, that's not too bad. I'm not in a hurry, but I don't want to throw away $200.
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#1217
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We can do it with no forms, but that might not end well.
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#1219
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#1222
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What kind of sbrs are commie legal anyway a 870 with 14" barrel maybe, probably not but a man can dream, a man can dream
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BOOO anti-gun people, HOOORAAAYY GUNS! |
#1223
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http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/curi...#modifications
The definition for curio or relic (“C & R”) firearms found in 27 CFR § 478.11 does not specifically state that a firearm must be in its original condition to be classified as a C&R firearm. However, ATF Ruling 85-10, which discusses the importation of military C&R firearms, notes that they must be in original configuration and adds that a receiver is not a C&R item. Combining this ruling and the definition of C&R firearms, the Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) has concluded that a firearm must be in its original condition to be considered a C&R weapon.
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"If Jesus had a gun he would be alive today"-Homer Simpson |
#1224
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Or just move to a free state.
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I like guns |
#1226
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ke6guj, what are your thoughts on paying for an NFA item only from a bank account setup in the name of the trust? There seems to be some split on other NFA forums I've been poking around on. Check coming from NFA Trust v personal credit card, etc.
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You think you know, but you have no idea. The information posted here is not legal advice. If you seek legal advice hire an attorney who is familiar with all the facts of your case. |
#1227
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^^
I have mine set up that way and paid for the NFA item through my trust account at the bank using a cashier's check. Kept the receipt for purchase of cashier's check in my NFA trust folder.
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RP1911 ----------- NRA Life CGN |
#1228
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Has anyone ever run across a C&R SBS for sale? I constantly search the online auction sites and short of a Marble Game Getter, I never see them for sale. I'd really like an Ithaca Auto-Burglar (AOW) or an 870 SBS, but those seem to be vaporware. I guess they probably don't come up for sale in Internet auctions too often. Probably have to scour brick and mortar auction houses.
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"If a man hasn't found something worth dying for, he isn't fit to live." - Martin Luther King Jr. "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin "You have to be willing to swing your nuts like a deadblow hammer to put these jackasses in their place." - AJAX22 "The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry." - William F Buckley Jr. |
#1230
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I personally have never heard of any issues with someone using personal funds instead of trust funds to pay for an NFA item or the payment to BATFE. That said, I can only assume that there is a good reason that the NFA lawyers prefer that you use trust funds.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#1232
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Sadly, ATF would consider this the manufacture of a "new" firearm, negating it's C&R status.
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Check out our e-commerce site here: www.ebrworks.com Serving you from Prescott, AZ Last edited by EBR Works; 11-16-2012 at 7:55 AM.. |
#1233
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The law says loss of C&R status is for military firearms only.
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"If Jesus had a gun he would be alive today"-Homer Simpson |
#1234
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the ATF ruling says that it applies to .mil firearms (note that that ruling was in 1985 when many .mil firearms weren't 50-years old yet and were being imported as curios, not at relics). ATF has taken the position that it applies to domestic C&Rs as well and just send back your Form 1 saying that you need a DW permit for a modern SBx.
If you want a newly-modified C&R SBx bad, I guess you could sue ATF to approve your Form 1. That will probably be the only way to get this fixed.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#1235
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Quote:
No more C&R SBS's will be made until they change their mind. Regardless of what some read/interpret the law as who aren't inking up my next tax stamp. Justin
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[SIZE="4]For any questions contact me by email. Thanks, Justin[/SIZE] Quote:
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#1236
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"If Jesus had a gun he would be alive today"-Homer Simpson |
#1237
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exactly. I specifically used that phrase when I wrote that.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#1238
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I've been looking for an NFA registered C&R SBS for 8 months. I have come across one, in Montana, but it's NFA status was questionable so the seller wouldn't sell it.
I am going to continue scouring Subguns, Stormgewehr, etc. there has to be one out there for me. |
#1239
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Guess what... Let's get the party started. I will have a few C&R NFA 870s, 37s, 12s, and possibly some other models in the very near future. Knowing that I have this shipment coming, I am more willing to let go of the 870 SBS that I have in stock. These were not easy to get, but finally we have them coming! I will post in the commercial section.
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#1240
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Quote:
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
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