Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Curio & Relic/Black Powder
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #481  
Old 04-27-2013, 11:37 AM
John Browning's Avatar
John Browning John Browning is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: California to Tennessee...back to California
Posts: 7,986
iTrader: 84 / 100%
Default

Here is a fun one.

Model 1883 Hotchkiss, SN 80693

If you can get that one, you are my hero. These are impossible to date for the mere mortal.
__________________
For Sale: Off Roster Handgun Moving Sale

For Sale: Off Roster CZ, Browning, PTR 91 Moving Sale

Quote:
Originally Posted by KWalkerM View Post
eh why bring logic into this, that makes too much sense... besides when you have bested a fool, you have accomplished nothing and he is a fool.
Reply With Quote
  #482  
Old 04-27-2013, 2:10 PM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Calguns Addict
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 5,520
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scobun View Post
Here is a fun one.

Model 1883 Hotchkiss, SN 80693

If you can get that one, you are my hero. These are impossible to date for the mere mortal.
Made early in 1895, with 6,198 made that year. I am now your hero, you mere mortal. A Hotchkiss? I'm green with envy! I wanna rummage through your gunsafe and see what else you've been hiding.
Have you shot the Colt yet? Mine is ready for a test fire. Ordered a Uberti screw set for it after I was told it would work,... it didn't, metric threads.
Reply With Quote
  #483  
Old 04-27-2013, 9:25 PM
John Browning's Avatar
John Browning John Browning is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: California to Tennessee...back to California
Posts: 7,986
iTrader: 84 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRAP55 View Post
Made early in 1895, with 6,198 made that year. I am now your hero, you mere mortal. A Hotchkiss? I'm green with envy! I wanna rummage through your gunsafe and see what else you've been hiding.
Have you shot the Colt yet? Mine is ready for a test fire. Ordered a Uberti screw set for it after I was told it would work,... it didn't, metric threads.
I am seriously impressed!

Yeah, I have an 1883 Hotchkiss. It is a military model, I'll have to snap some pictures at some point. It looks pretty much new. Still haven't shot the Colt. The rate that I seem to aquire new stuff exceeds the rate that I can take it out and shoot it. First world problems...

Thanks for the date. I've been lazy but am going to Cody letter that Hotchkiss sometime in the near future.
__________________
For Sale: Off Roster Handgun Moving Sale

For Sale: Off Roster CZ, Browning, PTR 91 Moving Sale

Quote:
Originally Posted by KWalkerM View Post
eh why bring logic into this, that makes too much sense... besides when you have bested a fool, you have accomplished nothing and he is a fool.
Reply With Quote
  #484  
Old 04-28-2013, 1:09 PM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Calguns Addict
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 5,520
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scobun View Post
I am seriously impressed!

Yeah, I have an 1883 Hotchkiss. It is a military model, I'll have to snap some pictures at some point. It looks pretty much new. Still haven't shot the Colt. The rate that I seem to aquire new stuff exceeds the rate that I can take it out and shoot it. First world problems...

Thanks for the date. I've been lazy but am going to Cody letter that Hotchkiss sometime in the near future.
I'll check with Bert and see if it'll letter.
Reply With Quote
  #485  
Old 04-28-2013, 2:58 PM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Calguns Addict
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 5,520
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRAP55 View Post
I'll check with Bert and see if it'll letter.
Bert says it'll letter. It was serialized on 2/1/1895.
Reply With Quote
  #486  
Old 04-30-2013, 4:11 PM
John Browning's Avatar
John Browning John Browning is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: California to Tennessee...back to California
Posts: 7,986
iTrader: 84 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRAP55 View Post
Bert says it'll letter. It was serialized on 2/1/1895.
...OK, now I'll need you to take seven boxes of 5.56 and use them to feed many...of my rifles. Miracle worker. Thank you. I'll post up pics later as a reward.

How does this thread not have a sticky yet? Sticky this please!
__________________
For Sale: Off Roster Handgun Moving Sale

For Sale: Off Roster CZ, Browning, PTR 91 Moving Sale

Quote:
Originally Posted by KWalkerM View Post
eh why bring logic into this, that makes too much sense... besides when you have bested a fool, you have accomplished nothing and he is a fool.

Last edited by John Browning; 04-30-2013 at 4:18 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #487  
Old 04-30-2013, 10:01 PM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Calguns Addict
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 5,520
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scobun View Post
...How does this thread not have a sticky yet? Sticky this please!
I agree, how does that get done?
Reply With Quote
  #488  
Old 05-01-2013, 5:53 AM
John Browning's Avatar
John Browning John Browning is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: California to Tennessee...back to California
Posts: 7,986
iTrader: 84 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRAP55 View Post
I agree, how does that get done?
You talk to the keeper of the sticky. Thanks Librarian!
__________________
For Sale: Off Roster Handgun Moving Sale

For Sale: Off Roster CZ, Browning, PTR 91 Moving Sale

Quote:
Originally Posted by KWalkerM View Post
eh why bring logic into this, that makes too much sense... besides when you have bested a fool, you have accomplished nothing and he is a fool.
Reply With Quote
  #489  
Old 05-01-2013, 5:09 PM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Calguns Addict
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 5,520
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

My thanks as well!
Reply With Quote
  #490  
Old 05-05-2013, 1:29 PM
Bay Gunner Bay Gunner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Norcal Bay Area
Posts: 141
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default C&R DOM

New member here!
My wife and I have our respective Grandfather's deer rifles and are very curious to get an accurate DOM for each.
1. Winchester Model 1895 s/n 69873 witn a "B" stamped on lower portion of tang?
2. Winchester Model 1894 s/n 878600
Thanks in advance,
Mike
Reply With Quote
  #491  
Old 05-05-2013, 1:52 PM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Calguns Addict
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 5,520
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Mike, your Winchester Model 1895 s/n 69873, was made early in 1910, with 4,471 made that year. The "B" or another letter stamped near the serial number on Winchesters signifies some kind of production change that was made in the manufacturing of that model. Unfortunately, that info has been lost over time.
Your Winchester Model 1894 s/n 878600, was made in 1918, a low production year, with 8,607 made that year.

Last edited by TRAP55; 05-05-2013 at 1:57 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #492  
Old 05-08-2013, 11:48 AM
Silverone858's Avatar
Silverone858 Silverone858 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Santee
Posts: 447
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

wow super impressed! can you do my Grandpas 70? certainly not as old as some of these but I will never part with it!
great job on all your hard work!
Reply With Quote
  #493  
Old 05-08-2013, 6:05 PM
BigJ's Avatar
BigJ BigJ is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 3,172
iTrader: 67 / 100%
Default

Got two for ya TRAP

1) Winchester Model 1887 - 12ga - 30" - SN 21953
2) Winchester Model 1897 - 12ga - 30" - SN 392648. There is a "D" stamped above the SN on the receiver, but nothing is stamped above the (matching) SN on the barrel assembly.

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #494  
Old 05-08-2013, 9:11 PM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Calguns Addict
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 5,520
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Winchester Model 1887 SN 21953 was made in late 1888, with 14,857 made that year.
Winchester Model 1897 SN 392648 was made in late 1907, with 46,162 made that year.
Reply With Quote
  #495  
Old 05-08-2013, 9:15 PM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Calguns Addict
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 5,520
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverone858 View Post
wow super impressed! can you do my Grandpas 70? certainly not as old as some of these but I will never part with it!
great job on all your hard work!
Silverone, I can if it's a pre 1964, I have all the numbers from the first one made in 1935 to the end of 1963, for the Model 70s.
Reply With Quote
  #496  
Old 05-09-2013, 8:46 AM
BigJ's Avatar
BigJ BigJ is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 3,172
iTrader: 67 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRAP55 View Post
Winchester Model 1887 SN 21953 was made in late 1888, with 14,857 made that year.
Winchester Model 1897 SN 392648 was made in late 1907, with 46,162 made that year.
Thank you!
Reply With Quote
  #497  
Old 05-10-2013, 3:23 PM
ms_erin ms_erin is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Marcos, CA
Posts: 75
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Model 1897 - S/N 621xx
Thanks in advance.

Last edited by ms_erin; 05-10-2013 at 3:31 PM.. Reason: SN
Reply With Quote
  #498  
Old 05-10-2013, 4:15 PM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Calguns Addict
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 5,520
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ms_erin View Post
Model 1897 - S/N 621xx
Thanks in advance.
Erin, yours was made in about Nov of 1898, with 17,677 made that year.
Reply With Quote
  #499  
Old 05-10-2013, 4:27 PM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Calguns Addict
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 5,520
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJ View Post
Thank you!
J, You're most welcome! On your 1887, I need to do some fact finding to confirm, but if I recall, the early ones made had 2.5" chambers, and later they went to 2 5/8ths or 2.75? Anyhow, BP or BP pressures only in that old girl, and all 1887's. And roll crimp paper hulls, or brass cases. If you plan on reloading paper hulls, I'll save you some 2.75" new once fired hulls you can cut to length...if I ever find the combo to my shotgun safe.
Reply With Quote
  #500  
Old 05-14-2013, 1:47 PM
gonguncrzy's Avatar
gonguncrzy gonguncrzy is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Whittier, LA County
Posts: 91
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Hi Trap55,

I have a model 1894 in 30wcf, s/n 848XX that I would appreciate some info on if its not too much trouble.

Thanks in advance!
__________________
NRA Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #501  
Old 05-15-2013, 6:41 PM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Calguns Addict
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 5,520
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gonguncrzy View Post
Hi Trap55,

I have a model 1894 in 30wcf, s/n 848XX that I would appreciate some info on if its not too much trouble.

Thanks in advance!
Made early in 1900, with 23,784 made that year.
Reply With Quote
  #502  
Old 05-16-2013, 1:09 PM
gonguncrzy's Avatar
gonguncrzy gonguncrzy is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Whittier, LA County
Posts: 91
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRAP55 View Post
Made early in 1900, with 23,784 made that year.
Thank you very much Sir!
__________________
NRA Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #503  
Old 05-16-2013, 4:39 PM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Calguns Addict
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 5,520
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

gonguncrzy, your rifle is the perfect example of why we started this project, and why the die hard collectors have refused to accept these dates.
The Madis DOM for your rifle shows it made in 1897, making it an "Antique" and adding to the value, when in fact, it was made about late Feb? of 1900 making it a "C&R".
Three years or three days can make a big difference on the rifle's classification status. I've seen dozens of Winchesters sold on GB with the wrong date of manufacture, with a couple of C&R's being sold as Antiques. To my knowledge, the BATF hasn't gone after any of them...yet. But I'll bet when they nail the first one, a whole buncha people are going to be double checking their serial numbers.
It'll probably open a big can of lawsuit worms too, and I'll bet that's the exact reason the Blue Book of Gun Values finally listed these polishing room dates alongside the Madis dates.
Reply With Quote
  #504  
Old 05-22-2013, 7:02 AM
gonguncrzy's Avatar
gonguncrzy gonguncrzy is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Whittier, LA County
Posts: 91
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Trap55,
Yes, some of my early internet research indicated the rifle was made in 1897. I later found more information discussing the incorrect Madis DOM data and that obtaining a Cody letter would be best.... that's when I found your thread and asked you for more info. Also glad to see that the Blue Book now lists the polishing room dates too... I had held off on buying a copy for that reason... guess I should finally get one!

Thanks again Trap!
__________________
NRA Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #505  
Old 06-03-2013, 5:47 PM
Dano2467's Avatar
Dano2467 Dano2467 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Central Kali
Posts: 129
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

What can you tell me about my Grandad's ol'97 s/n 730421 with an E over it?
Reply With Quote
  #506  
Old 06-04-2013, 3:49 PM
71kcfdcapt 71kcfdcapt is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Wofford Heights.
Posts: 64
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I have 2 1873's, 1st one is a sporter, round barrel 24" in 32-20 ser.#314008B
2nd is a sporter, octagon barrel 28" in 44-40 ser.#3XXXX1 from memory, I am not home to look at it but I happen to have the 32-20 with me. I will post it up when I have it.
Reply With Quote
  #507  
Old 06-04-2013, 9:36 PM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Calguns Addict
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 5,520
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dano2467 View Post
What can you tell me about my Grandad's ol'97 s/n 730421 with an E over it?
Made late 1920, with 30,483 made that year. The "E" would signify something in a production change, sadly no one has found that info, and the ones that knew, are long gone.
Reply With Quote
  #508  
Old 06-04-2013, 9:42 PM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Calguns Addict
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 5,520
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 71kcfdcapt View Post
I have 2 1873's, 1st one is a sporter, round barrel 24" in 32-20 ser.#314008B
2nd is a sporter, octagon barrel 28" in 44-40 ser.#3XXXX1 from memory, I am not home to look at it but I happen to have the 32-20 with me. I will post it up when I have it.
ser.#314008B was made in late 1889, with 38,651 made that year.

ser.#3XXXX1 was made between 1888 and 1891, if that's as close as you can get, that's as close as I can get.
PM me the the number when ya get it, and I'll edit this post with the correct year.
Reply With Quote
  #509  
Old 06-05-2013, 4:41 AM
71kcfdcapt 71kcfdcapt is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Wofford Heights.
Posts: 64
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRAP55 View Post
ser.#314008B was made in late 1889, with 38,651 made that year.

ser.#3XXXX1 was made between 1888 and 1891, if that's as close as you can get, that's as close as I can get.
PM me the the number when ya get it, and I'll edit this post with the correct year.
Thank you for the info. I will get the rest of the ser. number to you in a couple of days.
Reply With Quote
  #510  
Old 06-08-2013, 4:14 AM
71kcfdcapt 71kcfdcapt is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Wofford Heights.
Posts: 64
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Trap, the complete serial number on the 2nd 1873 is 33871. I added and extra x in it before.
Reply With Quote
  #511  
Old 06-09-2013, 10:48 PM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Calguns Addict
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 5,520
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 71kcfdcapt View Post
Trap, the complete serial number on the 2nd 1873 is 33871. I added and extra x in it before.
Sorry it took so long, I had to leave town for a few days.
Made 1879, with 14,024 made that year.
Reply With Quote
  #512  
Old 06-10-2013, 4:35 AM
71kcfdcapt 71kcfdcapt is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Wofford Heights.
Posts: 64
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRAP55 View Post
Sorry it took so long, I had to leave town for a few days.
Made 1879, with 14,024 made that year.
No problem, thanks so much for the information!
Reply With Quote
  #513  
Old 06-12-2013, 1:30 PM
Carolyn Carolyn is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Old Winchester

Hi. New here. Recently purchased a 94 Winchester, serial #1231256.
From what I've read - I've guesstimated build date at 1944. According to records I've found (that may certainly be flawed) paperwork from 44-47 was lost... so I just *figured* by the number 1944.

I put a Marble Arms rear sight on it, and very much enjoy shooting it!
Reply With Quote
  #514  
Old 06-12-2013, 1:36 PM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Calguns Addict
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 5,520
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolyn View Post
Hi. New here. Recently purchased a 94 Winchester, serial #1231256.
From what I've read - I've guesstimated build date at 1944. According to records I've found (that may certainly be flawed) paperwork from 44-47 was lost... so I just *figured* by the number 1944.

I put a Marble Arms rear sight on it, and very much enjoy shooting it!
Carolyn, Welcome to CG!
Your 1894 was made in 1940, with 43,398 made that year.
Reply With Quote
  #515  
Old 06-12-2013, 1:48 PM
Carolyn Carolyn is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Thanks so much... and thank you for the welcome!
Reply With Quote
  #516  
Old 06-12-2013, 1:58 PM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Calguns Addict
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 5,520
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

When I saw your post, I was hoping it was 1944!
Production stopped at the end of 1942 for the war. 1943 saw 0 made. There were only 13 Model 1894's made in 1944 (serial #'s 1343184 - 1343196), and only 8,870 made in 1945.
Reply With Quote
  #517  
Old 07-07-2013, 7:17 PM
Rukus's Avatar
Rukus Rukus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,388
iTrader: 70 / 100%
Default

Winchester model 12 heavy duck 12gauge- #1222xxx
__________________
MY AR Profile #1
Reply With Quote
  #518  
Old 07-08-2013, 7:49 AM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Calguns Addict
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 5,520
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rukus View Post
Winchester model 12 heavy duck 12gauge- #1222xxx
Made early in 1949, with 62,180 made that year.
Reply With Quote
  #519  
Old 07-29-2013, 6:55 AM
bruceflinch's Avatar
bruceflinch bruceflinch is offline
I need a LIFE!!
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Gun Point, KA
Posts: 40,110
iTrader: 67 / 100%
Default

Just picked up a Winchester 37, w/ no serial #..
Single shot, 16 ga, no safety. Just load, cock & shoot. I'm renovating it...
__________________
Actually I only started collecting Milsurps 3 years ago. I think I might own about 24...They're cheaper than guns that will most likely never get the opportunity to kill somebody...

I belong to the group that uses firearms, and knows which bathroom to use.

Tis better to have Trolled & lost, Than to never have Trolled, at all.

Secret Club Member?.
Reply With Quote
  #520  
Old 07-29-2013, 7:52 PM
TRAP55's Avatar
TRAP55 TRAP55 is offline
Calguns Addict
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dixon,CA
Posts: 5,520
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Not serial numbered, made from 1936 to 1963, with 1,015,554 Model 37's produced.
Bruce, are we going to see some "before" and "after" pics?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 7:18 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy