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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:47 PM
DonaldBabbett DonaldBabbett is online now
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Lightbulb More armed citizen national news reports, please.

I wish the media would represent the silent majority: the million or more law-abiding Americans who use guns every year to thwart criminal attacks.

The use of guns by mass shooters is rather rare nationally still and "ordinary" criminal activity with guns is far less than legitimate gun uses, thankfully.

For every "mass shooting" reported on CNN, there are probably a million or more legitimate uses of guns against criminals.

I would like to see many many more news accounts whereby guns are used by law-abiding American citizens to stop bad people.

The use of a gun by George Zimmerman in Florida against a thug was just one account of such gun use in recent history. That case should have never even gone to trial in the first place.

I should never face a murder charge for shooting some thug who is beating me up.

Last edited by DonaldBabbett; 10-12-2017 at 10:49 PM..
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  #2  
Old 10-13-2017, 12:16 AM
50BMGBOB 50BMGBOB is offline
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The problem is a lot off stories are kept quiet. My son is a photographer and works with a lot if news people. There have been several times this year where the police would not publicly confirm the use of a legally carried weapon in self defense so it never made the news. One was person stopping a stabbing and holding the perp until the police got there which was even caught on video. The other was a robbery where the victim was shot but was able to shoot the perp. Both cases the good guy had a CCW and was not an LEO.
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  #3  
Old 10-13-2017, 1:47 AM
DonaldBabbett DonaldBabbett is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 50BMGBOB View Post
The problem is a lot off stories are kept quiet. My son is a photographer and works with a lot if news people. There have been several times this year where the police would not publicly confirm the use of a legally carried weapon in self defense so it never made the news. One was person stopping a stabbing and holding the perp until the police got there which was even caught on video. The other was a robbery where the victim was shot but was able to shoot the perp. Both cases the good guy had a CCW and was not an LEO.
yes, the mainstream media is not particularly gun-rights-friendly

they will only report stories that "support" the arguments made by the anti-gunners

The Left wants to divide, disarm and CONQUER you.
The Left is the single greatest enemy of Liberty and the American Way.

We don't need the police to confirm anything themselves to news cameras: witnesses can speak to the
press about incidents involving using guns against bad guys without the cops' approval.

Last edited by DonaldBabbett; 10-13-2017 at 2:06 AM..
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  #4  
Old 10-13-2017, 9:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaldBabbett View Post
I wish the media would represent the silent majority: the million or more law-abiding Americans who use guns every year to thwart criminal attacks.

The use of guns by mass shooters is rather rare nationally still and "ordinary" criminal activity with guns is far less than legitimate gun uses, thankfully.

For every "mass shooting" reported on CNN, there are probably a million or more legitimate uses of guns against criminals.

I would like to see many many more news accounts whereby guns are used by law-abiding American citizens to stop bad people.
For decades the NRA has had a column in their various magazines titled "Armed Citizen" which gave 1 paragraph descriptions of lawful armed self-defense incidents from around the country. They now have it online: https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen/



Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaldBabbett View Post
The use of a gun by George Zimmerman in Florida against a thug was just one account of such gun use in recent history. That case should have never even gone to trial in the first place.

I should never face a murder charge for shooting some thug who is beating me up.
It went to trial for murder because of the races involved and "community" outcry. So much for "White Privilege"....
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Last edited by Paladin; 10-13-2017 at 10:02 AM..
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  #5  
Old 10-13-2017, 10:13 AM
DonaldBabbett DonaldBabbett is online now
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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
For decades the NRA has had a column in their various magazines titled "Armed Citizen" which gave 1 paragraph descriptions of lawful armed self-defense incidents from around the country. They now have it online: https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen/



It went to trial for murder because of the races involved and "community" outcry. So much for "White Privilege"....

I am aware of the NRA's Armed Citizen and Gun Owners of America reports uses of guns to thwart bad guys also in its newsletters.

I want the American People at large to see all the good armed citizens do everyday on major networks as Fox News and CNN as well as via local TV and radio and news stations. Social media and newspapers could also be an instrument of this as well. The majority of Americans do not belong to pro-gun groups and wouldn't even have the chance to read the various pro-gun organizations' membership publications.

At least conservative talk radio supports legitimate gun use and self-defense by citizens.

The key to achieving lasting victory for gun rights and inalienable human self-defense rights is widespread awareness.
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Last edited by DonaldBabbett; 10-13-2017 at 10:21 AM..
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  #6  
Old 10-13-2017, 3:08 PM
rplaw rplaw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
It went to trial for murder because of the races involved and "community" outcry. So much for "White Privilege"....
NO.

Zimmerman was tried because the use of deadly force falls into 3 categories.

1. Clearly lawful. Unassailable self defense or defense of another.
2. Clearly unlawful. Criminal use of a firearm.
3. The gray area between 1 and 2 above where it is not clear whether the use of deadly force is justified.

#3 is where the FACTS of the Martin/Zimmerman shooting came into play. It required a jury to sort out whether the use of deadly force was justified or not. The State of Fl declined to do this on the basis that their investigation showed the use of force was lawful. However, the facts weren't so clear and the public outcry allowed the Feds to step in and proceed. Had the facts been absolutely clear, not even the public outcry could have resulted in a trial.
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  #7  
Old 10-14-2017, 9:22 AM
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Originally Posted by rplaw View Post
NO.

Zimmerman was tried because the use of deadly force falls into 3 categories.

1. Clearly lawful. Unassailable self defense or defense of another.
2. Clearly unlawful. Criminal use of a firearm.
3. The gray area between 1 and 2 above where it is not clear whether the use of deadly force is justified.

#3 is where the FACTS of the Martin/Zimmerman shooting came into play. It required a jury to sort out whether the use of deadly force was justified or not. The State of Fl declined to do this on the basis that their investigation showed the use of force was lawful. However, the facts weren't so clear and the public outcry allowed the Feds to step in and proceed. Had the facts been absolutely clear, not even the public outcry could have resulted in a trial.
That would be a really good reply if I wrote,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
It went to trial because of the races involved and "community" outcry. So much for "White Privilege"....
But I didn't.

Rather, I wrote,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
It went to trial for murder because of the races involved and "community" outcry. So much for "White Privilege"....
The charging for murder was the result of "the races involved and 'community' outcry."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooti...sis_of_charges

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_...n#Jury_verdict

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_...ublic_response
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Last edited by Paladin; 10-14-2017 at 9:34 AM..
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  #8  
Old 10-14-2017, 3:00 PM
rplaw rplaw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
That would be a really good reply if I wrote,



But I didn't.

Rather, I wrote,



The charging for murder was the result of "the races involved and 'community' outcry."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooti...sis_of_charges

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_...n#Jury_verdict

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_...ublic_response
You can believe what you wish. However, the facts were sufficiently cloudy that had Martin not been black, or if Zimmerman HAD BEEN black, there would likely have been no outcry yet there still may have been a trial.

The trial came about the way it did because there was no contradictory evidence and the evidence they had wasn't sufficient to prove it was a legitimate use of deadly force. There could be another explanation which is just as reasonable as the one Zimmerman gave. Thus, the Gov made him prove his defense.

At trial, Martin submitted his medical injuries, his viewpoint, and his testimony alleging he was attacked. There was no counter viewpoint or evidence to contravene any of the defense because the ONLY other witness to the events was dead. The only evidence the Gov had was the 911 tapes and expert testimony regarding the extent of Z's injuries plus Martin's girlfriend's rather inconsistent testimony.

Had there been a prosecution witness that may have been enough to tip the scale and convict. Without Martin or another eye witness, it was insufficient BUT it required a jury to sort it out. Not because of the public outcry, but because the FACTS weren't sufficiently clear until it was all laid out together without the emotional overtones.

He said he was attacked and defended himself. The gov and everyone else said he was the attacker and the 911 tapes could be viewed as supporting the allegation. That is a legitimate disagreement of the facts. The trial was to prove which version was the truth.

Believe what you wish but that is the way our legal system works.
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Some random thoughts:

Evil doesn't only come in black.

Life is like a discount bakery. Usually everything is just what you ordered. But, occasionally you come face to face with an unexpected fruitcake. Surprise!

There is no "I" in Team; no "Me" in sports; no "You" in life. However, there's a ton of "Wheeeeee!" on roller coasters.
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  #9  
Old 10-14-2017, 9:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rplaw View Post
You can believe what you wish. However, the facts were sufficiently cloudy that had Martin not been black, or if Zimmerman HAD BEEN black, there would likely have been no outcry yet there still may have been a trial.

The trial came about the way it did because there was no contradictory evidence and the evidence they had wasn't sufficient to prove it was a legitimate use of deadly force. There could be another explanation which is just as reasonable as the one Zimmerman gave. Thus, the Gov made him prove his defense.

At trial, Martin submitted his medical injuries, his viewpoint, and his testimony alleging he was attacked. There was no counter viewpoint or evidence to contravene any of the defense because the ONLY other witness to the events was dead. The only evidence the Gov had was the 911 tapes and expert testimony regarding the extent of Z's injuries plus Martin's girlfriend's rather inconsistent testimony.

Had there been a prosecution witness that may have been enough to tip the scale and convict. Without Martin or another eye witness, it was insufficient BUT it required a jury to sort it out. Not because of the public outcry, but because the FACTS weren't sufficiently clear until it was all laid out together without the emotional overtones.

He said he was attacked and defended himself. The gov and everyone else said he was the attacker and the 911 tapes could be viewed as supporting the allegation. That is a legitimate disagreement of the facts. The trial was to prove which version was the truth.

Believe what you wish but that is the way our legal system works.


You obviously did not get the point of my previous post. The point was that the charge of murder was due to outcry from the community, not that a trial on lesser charge/s would not be justified.

Believe whatever you want, but I continue to believe that the charge of murder was not supported by the evidence beyond a reasonable doubt for a unanimous jury verdict necessary for a conviction in our legal system. The jury believed that too and we're in some pretty good company ...

Quote:
Some legal scholars, including Charles Rose of Stetson University and Jonathan Turley of George Washington University, were not surprised by the verdict and said the prosecution had tactically erred by charging Zimmerman with second-degree murder, which, given Florida's laws on self-defense, made it almost impossible for the prosecution to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt with the evidence at their disposal.[385][386][387]
From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooti...rtin#Aftermath

I believe what they and the jury believed.
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Last edited by Paladin; 10-14-2017 at 9:07 PM..
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  #10  
Old 10-14-2017, 9:09 PM
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Old 10-14-2017, 10:23 PM
Dago Red Dago Red is offline
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Re: Zimmerman, anybody think maybe the prosecution didn't make a mistake in the charge? If you were forced to take a case to trial by bowing to political or media pressure and knew that by making it more difficult to prove.......

I believe that obviously media is not letting all the stories get their fair and equal time, I also wonder though how many encounters there are that never even get reported. I dated a lady once that didn't have a CCW but carried anyways. Somebody tried to car jack her in Palo Alto but ran off when she shoved the gun in their face. Obviously she didn't tell LE about it.

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