Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > California handguns
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

California handguns Discuss your favorite California handgun technical and related questions here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-14-2017, 11:41 AM
MolonLabe1's Avatar
MolonLabe1 MolonLabe1 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 23
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default 2017 AR pistol thread (master)

SB 880 says...

"This bill would revise this definition of “assault weapon” to mean a semiautomatic centerfire rifle, or a semiautomatic pistol that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of those specified attributes. The bill would also define “fixed magazine” to mean an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm in such a manner that the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action."

If the BB reloaded or the ARMaglock meets the legal definition of "disassembly of the firearm action" as noted on the bill, then having such a device installed disqualifies any weapon with one of these installed from being classified as an assault weapon. Remember, this bill "reclassified" the laws meaning all past laws pertaining to such have been altered. Therefore, this bill stands on itself.

I myself believe the BB reloaded and ARMaglock, if installed, fit the definition of "disassembly of the action" since the hammer is separated from the firing pin and the gun cannot operate during this period. I'm sure as 2017 passes, this will be settled in a court case because some dip***** LEO and liberal prosecutor will try to test it and make a name for themselves. I myself would never make an arrest for such a BS interpretation, but that's me, a constitutional cop.

Now as far as an AR pistol...., you CANNOT make it featureless like the rifle based of SB 880's revised definitions. So your only choices are to register it (if built prior to 12/31/16), or make one yourself from an 80% lower and have the BB reloaded or ARMaglock installed. Once a rifle or PISTOL is classified as a "fixed magazine" under this new law (not the old one-remember "revised law"), then the evil features don't mean anything or come into play at all under the new definition.

So those who have an AR pistol have one year to see what happens in reference to case law affecting the BB Reloaded or ARMaglock that hopefully is rendered this year (I suspect it will).

If these devises become acceptable under case law nullifying the AW classification, then you're all good. If they are not, then you'll have to have it engraved per ATF guidelines and registered prior to 1/1/18 or take it out of Commifornia.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-14-2017, 4:16 PM
BRANCHER BRANCHER is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Danville
Posts: 399
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

When Building not installing a Carrier Key on Carrier?
Yeah hot gases go directly into the action (and not thru carrier).
Guess it could be messy. But it would not be a semi auto.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-14-2017, 9:00 PM
yrs yrs is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Bay Area - East Bay
Posts: 238
iTrader: 22 / 100%
Default

MolonLabel1, thank you for the clear and concise explanation on what our options are for our AR pistols. It's the best one I've seen yet.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-15-2017, 9:43 AM
blindsid73 blindsid73 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 16
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Hello all. I'm new to firearms and would like to build an AR pistol. I'm extremely unsure of all the laws after spending several hours of reading.

My plans:
80% lower
CMMG 4.5 or 9.2" 22lr barrel and bolt
Pistol buffer (if I use a stock is it a SBR?)

To be complaint I'll need an AR maglock and etch serial information to lower.
Does the serial info need to state "pistol" and does it need to be DROs'ed? A local San Diego store suggested.

Do I need to start the build as a single shot and document the build prior to converting to semi auto?

I'll be using it primarily for plinking and home defense. If I posted on the wrong thread or forum, I apologize in advance. Thank you in advance for all the help.


Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-15-2017, 10:08 AM
Oceanbob's Avatar
Oceanbob Oceanbob is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 10,777
iTrader: 91 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blindsid73 View Post
Hello all. I'm new to firearms and would like to build an AR pistol. I'm extremely unsure of all the laws after spending several hours of reading.

My plans:
80% lower
CMMG 4.5 or 9.2" 22lr barrel and bolt
Pistol buffer (if I use a stock is it a SBR?)

To be complaint I'll need an AR maglock and etch serial information to lower.
Does the serial info need to state "pistol" and does it need to be DROs'ed? A local San Diego store suggested.

Do I need to start the build as a single shot and document the build prior to converting to semi auto?

I'll be using it primarily for plinking and home defense. If I posted on the wrong thread or forum, I apologize in advance. Thank you in advance for all the help.


Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
Welcome to Cal Guns

You should probably start a new thread with these questions.

Be well
Bob
__________________
May the Bridges I burn light the way.

Life Is Not About Waiting For The Storm To Pass - Its About Learning To Dance In The Rain.

Fewer people are killed with all rifles each year (323 in 2011) than with shotguns (356), hammers and clubs (496), and hands and feet (728).
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-15-2017, 10:12 AM
blindsid73 blindsid73 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 16
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default New to firearms and would like to build a compliant AR pistol

thanks, will start new thread

Last edited by blindsid73; 01-15-2017 at 10:27 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-15-2017, 10:29 AM
Quiet's Avatar
Quiet Quiet is offline
retired Goon
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Bernardino County
Posts: 22,886
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default Starting 01-01-2017...

First issue... (making a CA legal AR style pistol)

The handgun needs to be made into a dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistol or a dimensionally compliant break-top/open single-shot pistol.

Because the firearm can never had been semi-auto prior to creation, you will most likely need to build your own upper, instead of buying an existing upper and modifying it. This is because existing uppers are typically test fired by the manufacturer as a semi-auto.

In addition to installing a 0 round mag/sled that can not be removed without disassembling the firearm's action or a 0 round mag/sled that is permanently attached to the firearm or a solid magazine, the following must be done depending on the type of upper...

If the AR style pistol normally operates via direct impingement, then:
1. Do not install a gas tube.
2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block.
This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot.

If the AR style pistol normally operates via gas-piston, then:
1. Do not install a gas piston.
2. Do not install a gas block or plug the gas block.
This makes it a straight pull bolt-action single-shot.

If the AR style pistol normally operates via blowback, then:
1. Install a dowel in the buffer tube, which prevents the buffer from moving.
^ For rimfire blowback... install a limiter/black behind the bolt carrier group, in order to prevent it from cycling.
This makes it a break-top/open single-shot.

The upper will also need a minimum 6" barrel length and the handgun will need a minimum 10.5" overall length.


Second issue... (conversion from exempt handgun to unsafe handgun)

Because of definition changes relating to CA's "home built firearm" laws, it may no longer be legal to convert a dimensionally compliant bolt-action single-shot pistol or dimensionally complaint break-top single-shot pistol into a semi-auto pistol.
{wait and see, while lawyers do battle}


Third issue... (required markings)

In order to register it or transfer it, it must be properly engraved/marked.

Markings must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than 1/16 inch.
Markings must use Roman letters (A, B, C, etc.) and Arabic numerals (1, 2, 3, etc).

Markings must include: [all this complies with Federal requirements]
1) Serial Numbers (can not be just a name, must contain numerals)*
2) Model
3) Caliber
4) Manufacturer's name*
5) City & State where the Manufacturer is located

Since you made the receiver, you are the manufacturer.
So, your name (first & last) and city/state needs to be engraved on it.

*The un-finalized CA DOJ regulations have described Firearm Manufactured By Unlicensed Subject (FMBUS) and what is needed for them to be registered.
FMBUS equates to any "home built (80%)" firearm and requires a CA DOJ issued serial number in order to be registered.
{wait and see, while lawyers do battle}

If you do not properly mark/engrave the firearm before 07-01-2018, then you must apply to CA DOJ BOF for the required markings for home built firearms. [PC 29180(b)]

Starting 01-01-2019, possession of a home built firearm without identifying information will be illegal. [PC 29180(f)]
In addition, it will also be illegal to transfer home built firearms, unless it is to surrender them to law enforcement. [PC 29180(d)]
__________________


"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.” - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).

Last edited by Quiet; 01-15-2017 at 10:58 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-15-2017, 10:34 AM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: canoga park, ca
Posts: 10,624
iTrader: 85 / 100%
Default

MOLON LABE AND QUIET NAILED IT. FINISH AN 80% AR PISTOL MAKE IT SINGLE SHOT PER INFO.PRIOR TO 12/31/16 fIX THE MAG AND CONVERT TO SEMI AUTO AND GO SHOOT IT. SERIALIZE NOW BEFORE LAW KICKS IN AND THEY ASSIGN YOU A SERIAL NUMBER.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-15-2017, 10:36 AM
Quiet's Avatar
Quiet Quiet is offline
retired Goon
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Bernardino County
Posts: 22,886
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blindsid73 View Post
Hello all. I'm new to firearms and would like to build an AR pistol. I'm extremely unsure of all the laws after spending several hours of reading.

My plans:
80% lower
CMMG 4.5 or 9.2" 22lr barrel and bolt
Pistol buffer (if I use a stock is it a SBR?)

To be complaint I'll need an AR maglock and etch serial information to lower.
Does the serial info need to state "pistol" and does it need to be DROs'ed? A local San Diego store suggested.

Do I need to start the build as a single shot and document the build prior to converting to semi auto?

I'll be using it primarily for plinking and home defense. If I posted on the wrong thread or forum, I apologize in advance. Thank you in advance for all the help.
Because it is a .22LR and operates via blowback, you will need to install a limiter behind the BCG in order to prevent it from cycling. This will cause it to be considered a break-top single-shot pistol. Barrel length needs to be 6" or greater (but less than 16").

Because it is a .22LR, a buffer tube is not required for it to operate. Therefore, you can just plug/block the rear extension of the receiver.
If you install a stock, it will be considered a SBR.

Markings do not have to state "pistol" on it.

As of 01-01-2017, due to changes in CA laws regarding "home built" firearms, it will need to stay a single-shot pistol. Until this issue is clarified.
__________________


"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.” - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-15-2017, 10:53 AM
Quiet's Avatar
Quiet Quiet is offline
retired Goon
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Bernardino County
Posts: 22,886
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default wait and see mode, while lawyers do battle

Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
MOLON LABE AND QUIET NAILED IT. FINISH AN 80% AR PISTOL MAKE IT SINGLE SHOT PER INFO.PRIOR TO 12/31/16 fIX THE MAG AND CONVERT TO SEMI AUTO AND GO SHOOT IT. SERIALIZE NOW BEFORE LAW KICKS IN AND THEY ASSIGN YOU A SERIAL NUMBER.
It is not legal to make an unsafe pistol. [PC 32000(a)]
It is legal to make an exempt pistol. [PC 32100(b)]

That said, due to CA's "home built (80%)" firearm laws, starting 01-01-2017, it may no longer be legal to make an exempt pistol (dimensionally compliant bolt-action/break-top single-shot pistol) and convert it to semi-auto because it would be considered making an unsafe handgun.

Because "manufacturing" is now legally defined as: [PC 29180(a)]
A. Fabricating or constructing a firearm.
B. Fitting together parts to construct a firearm.

It can now be argued that converting the firearm from single-shot to semi-auto, is making a new firearm.

{wait and see mode, while lawyers do battle}



Penal Code 29180
(a) For purposes of this chapter, “manufacturing” or “assembling” a firearm means to fabricate or construct a firearm, or to fit together the component parts of a firearm to construct a firearm.
__________________


"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.” - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-15-2017, 10:57 AM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: canoga park, ca
Posts: 10,624
iTrader: 85 / 100%
Default

If mfg prior does the new law make my finished 80% now illegal as semi auto. I am not making a new one.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-15-2017, 11:02 AM
Quiet's Avatar
Quiet Quiet is offline
retired Goon
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Bernardino County
Posts: 22,886
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
If mfg prior does the new law make my finished 80% now illegal as semi auto. I am not making a new one.
If it was done under SSE (before 01-01-2015), it is fine.
If it was done under SSE2 (from 01-01-2015 to 12-31-2016), kinda gray depending on who you talk to.

The change happened when new Penal Codes went into effect on 01-01-2017.

It's murky and needs clarification. Wait and see, while lawyers do battle.
__________________


"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.” - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).

Last edited by Quiet; 01-15-2017 at 11:07 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-15-2017, 11:07 AM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: canoga park, ca
Posts: 10,624
iTrader: 85 / 100%
Default

Thanks Quiet I finished it couple years ago and let my swat buddies play with it. It is 6.8 spc and I took it to alaska last year instead of my 44 smith as a bush pistol while fishing rivers. The usfw guy up there said what is it and I told him a .270 pistol. I shoot the bear 18 times then then fattest fisherman close to me and if bear still coming then myself. Got a good laugh on the Kenai.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-15-2017, 5:55 PM
blindsid73 blindsid73 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 16
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Since I completed my lower before the new year I might be able to complete my AR pistol? Or is the requirement to complete the build before the new year? Thank you everyone for the info!

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Last edited by blindsid73; 01-15-2017 at 6:05 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-15-2017, 6:05 PM
geoint's Avatar
geoint geoint is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: In the Mormon homeland
Posts: 5,049
iTrader: 51 / 100%
Default

I would venture that 80% of all AR pistols in CA were illegally configured last year and that thanks to our tireless protectors up in Sacramento its about 98% this year
__________________
Unless we keep the barbarian virtues, gaining the civilized ones will be of little avail. Oversentimentality, oversoftness, washiness, and mushiness are the great dangers of this age and of this people." Teddy Roosevelt

I Hate California.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-15-2017, 6:08 PM
Nor*Cal Nor*Cal is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,499
iTrader: 17 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blindsid73 View Post
Since I completed my lower before the new year I might be able to complete my AR pistol? Or is the requirement to complete the build before the new year? Thank you everyone for the info!

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
It needed to be a functional firearm between 2001 and 2016 to be legally registered as an assault weapon.

You can still complete your build in 2017 but not as an assault weapon.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-16-2017, 7:50 AM
Jimi Jah's Avatar
Jimi Jah Jimi Jah is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North San Diego County
Posts: 12,619
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

I'm converting mine to rimfire. The buffer tube will be removed and replaced with one of my Ceiner conversion bolts and a Spikes buffer plug.

It was made several years ago and it is engraved and anodized. I'm not registering it nor playing cops and robbers with ill informed CA LEO's. I'm not going to wear down my receiver with the fixed mag. I'm removing/modifying all jail bait here. I'm keeping all the parts just in case.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-16-2017, 4:07 PM
9mmContagion's Avatar
9mmContagion 9mmContagion is online now
👀They’re Watching 👀
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: South PRK
Posts: 3,220
iTrader: 118 / 99%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
I'm converting mine to rimfire. The buffer tube will be removed and replaced with one of my Ceiner conversion bolts and a Spikes buffer plug.

It was made several years ago and it is engraved and anodized. I'm not registering it nor playing cops and robbers with ill informed CA LEO's. I'm not going to wear down my receiver with the fixed mag. I'm removing/modifying all jail bait here. I'm keeping all the parts just in case.
You'll also need to remove the handguard as that will be considered a barrel shroud... unless you plan on using a fixed mag solution. You can follow the handgun flow chart in the link at the top of the page
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-17-2017, 7:41 AM
Capybara's Avatar
Capybara Capybara is offline
CGSSA Coordinator
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Ventura County
Posts: 11,309
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MolonLabe1 View Post
...Now as far as an AR pistol...., you CANNOT make it featureless like the rifle based of SB 880's revised definitions. So your only choices are to register it (if built prior to 12/31/16), or make one yourself from an 80% lower and have the BB reloaded or ARMaglock installed. Once a rifle or PISTOL is classified as a "fixed magazine" under this new law (not the old one-remember "revised law"), then the evil features don't mean anything or come into play at all under the new definition.

So those who have an AR pistol have one year to see what happens in reference to case law affecting the BB Reloaded or ARMaglock that hopefully is rendered this year (I suspect it will).
Did you leave out the Franklin Armory DFM on purpose or overlooked it?
__________________
NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor, Shotgun Instructor and Range Safety Officer



Sign up now for the next Ventura County Reloading Workshop!
VC Reloading Club on Facebook
VC Reloading Club on Twitter @VCReloading
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-17-2017, 7:48 AM
MolonLabe1's Avatar
MolonLabe1 MolonLabe1 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 23
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

That would work as well, but reloading that devise is much more time consuming than the two I mentioned. With the two I mentioned, the operator only has to slightly raise the rear of the upper from the lower to drop the mag verses opening up the upper all the way to reload.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-17-2017, 8:01 AM
Jimi Jah's Avatar
Jimi Jah Jimi Jah is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North San Diego County
Posts: 12,619
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldarshay View Post
You'll also need to remove the handguard as that will be considered a barrel shroud... unless you plan on using a fixed mag solution. You can follow the handgun flow chart in the link at the top of the page
It has a Yankee Hill freefloat tube, it's round and unscrews easily. If I take that off it's GTG as a rimfire? I thought rimfire was exempt from all this BS?
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-17-2017, 8:03 AM
MolonLabe1's Avatar
MolonLabe1 MolonLabe1 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 23
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capybara View Post
Did you leave out the Franklin Armory DFM on purpose or overlooked it?


Also.... I'm certain the ARMaglock and BB2 will be challenged in a court case at some point this year because with that devise, I can literally do a mag swap in less time than the original BB... I timed myself with an ARMaglock, and I can swap a new mag in less than 3 seconds. The Franklin will take much longer, and since that is what the Commie legislators were trying to implement, the Franklin may be CA's only choice if the ARMLCK AND BB2 are nullified in a court case. I just can't see it because to drop the mag on these devices, the action is technically disassembled, whereas the hammer is separated from the firing pin. But again..... we need to remember who we are dealing with here in Commifornia headed up by a dope smoking governor named moonbeam who thinks actual criminals will follow any gun law.

GUN CONTROL is not about guns; it's about CONTROL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-17-2017, 8:20 AM
Nor*Cal Nor*Cal is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,499
iTrader: 17 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MolonLabe1 View Post
Also.... I'm certain the ARMaglock and BB2 will be challenged in a court case at some point this year because with that devise, I can literally do a mag swap in less time than the original BB... I timed myself with an ARMaglock, and I can swap a new mag in less than 3 seconds. The Franklin will take much longer, and since that is what the Commie legislators were trying to implement, the Franklin may be CA's only choice if the ARMLCK AND BB2 are nullified in a court case. I just can't see it because to drop the mag on these devices, the action is technically disassembled, whereas the hammer is separated from the firing pin. But again..... we need to remember who we are dealing with here in Commifornia headed up by a dope smoking governor named moonbeam who thinks actual criminals will follow any gun law.

GUN CONTROL is not about guns; it's about CONTROL.
Stop with the paranoia. Who cares how fast you can change mags, that is not how the law is written. Those devices force you to break open the action in order to reload. That's all that matters.

This is the same crap we heard when the original bullet button was invented. And the same crap we heard when SSE was figured out.

Don't do this or you're going to end up in jail.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-17-2017, 8:34 AM
MolonLabe1's Avatar
MolonLabe1 MolonLabe1 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 23
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor*Cal View Post
Stop with the paranoia. Who cares how fast you can change mags, that is not how the law is written. Those devices force you to break open the action in order to reload. That's all that matters.



This is the same crap we heard when the original bullet button was invented. And the same crap we heard when SSE was figured out.



Don't do this or you're going to end up in jail.


Who's paranoid? How am I going to jail? I support the ARMaglock and BB2..., read the posts. I said they will be challenged because of this Commie state. All it takes is some lame LEO and a libtard prosecutor who want to make a name for themselves and try. As a constitutional LEO myself, I interpret the ARMaglock and BB2 as disassembly of the action.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-17-2017, 11:40 AM
9mmContagion's Avatar
9mmContagion 9mmContagion is online now
👀They’re Watching 👀
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: South PRK
Posts: 3,220
iTrader: 118 / 99%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
It has a Yankee Hill freefloat tube, it's round and unscrews easily. If I take that off it's GTG as a rimfire? I thought rimfire was exempt from all this BS?
IIRC, a pistol is a pistol, there are no centerfire/rimfire differences for pistols. Therefore, following the flow chart, once the BB was deemed "NOT a fixed magazine device," you move to not being allowed a shroud or threaded barrel.

Yes, if you remove the handguard, you should be G2G

Last edited by 9mmContagion; 01-17-2017 at 1:38 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-17-2017, 12:20 PM
autoduel's Avatar
autoduel autoduel is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Irvine
Posts: 989
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MolonLabe1 View Post
Who's paranoid? How am I going to jail? I support the ARMaglock and BB2..., read the posts. I said they will be challenged because of this Commie state. All it takes is some lame LEO and a libtard prosecutor who want to make a name for themselves and try. As a constitutional LEO myself, I interpret the ARMaglock and BB2 as disassembly of the action.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They won't challenge them because the devices follow the letter of the law. What will happen is they will change the wording in the next bill to make them non-compliant and around and around we go.
__________________
Ignorance, hate, fear and bigotry. The Four Horsemen of Liberalism.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-17-2017, 1:55 PM
Nor*Cal Nor*Cal is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,499
iTrader: 17 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MolonLabe1 View Post
Who's paranoid? How am I going to jail? I support the ARMaglock and BB2..., read the posts. I said they will be challenged because of this Commie state. All it takes is some lame LEO and a libtard prosecutor who want to make a name for themselves and try. As a constitutional LEO myself, I interpret the ARMaglock and BB2 as disassembly of the action.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I thought it was you that called an AR pistol "jail bait" in this thread but that was another member. Sorry.

And I appreciate you being a constitutional LEO. But I do not agree with your thought that these new devices will be challenged in court. They follow the letter of the law. Were there any arrests and court cases on the original bullet buttons? Or the SSE process for pistols? I'm actually not sure but do not believe there were. And I do not believe there will be any for these new devices either.

I've said it before and will say it again. As a law abiding gun owner, I am not going to live my life in fear of some overzealous LEO interpreting the law in his own manner. If it happens it happens, but I'm going to continue to live my life and continue to legally configure and shoot my guns. I'm also not going to be intimidated by this states unconstitutional politicians and their anti 2A laws.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-17-2017, 2:19 PM
MolonLabe1's Avatar
MolonLabe1 MolonLabe1 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 23
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor*Cal View Post
I thought it was you that called an AR pistol "jail bait" in this thread but that was another member. Sorry.

And I appreciate you being a constitutional LEO. But I do not agree with your thought that these new devices will be challenged in court. They follow the letter of the law. Were there any arrests and court cases on the original bullet buttons? Or the SSE process for pistols? I'm actually not sure but do not believe there were. And I do not believe there will be any for these new devices either.

I've said it before and will say it again. As a law abiding gun owner, I am not going to live my life in fear of some overzealous LEO interpreting the law in his own manner. If it happens it happens, but I'm going to continue to live my life and continue to legally configure and shoot my guns. I'm also not going to be intimidated by this states unconstitutional politicians and their anti 2A laws.


Yeah right on brother, I agree!...

I've done the job for 28 years, and I know first hand what type of LEOs are being hired today (it'd blow your mind). So, that is why my opinion is... I suspect they'll be challenged in court by a millennial LEO and followed up by an over zealous POS DA. My nature, because of the job, lends me to always suspect the worse and hope and pray for the best. 2 more years, and I'm out of this f'ed up nanny sanctuary state. Hopefully Trump can do something about this state, but I doubt it. I also hope I'm out before he just continues the walk up the Ca / Az, Nv, Or, and Wa boarders.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-17-2017, 2:21 PM
MolonLabe1's Avatar
MolonLabe1 MolonLabe1 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 23
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MolonLabe1 View Post
Yeah right on brother, I agree!...

I've done the job for 28 years, and I know first hand what type of LEOs are being hired today (it'd blow your mind). So, that is why my opinion is... I suspect they'll be challenged in court by a millennial LEO and followed up by an over zealous POS DA. My nature, because of the job, lends me to always suspect the worse and hope and pray for the best. 2 more years, and I'm out of this f'ed up nanny sanctuary state. Hopefully Trump can do something about this state, but I doubt it. I also hope I'm out before he just continues the wall up the Ca / Az, Nv, Or, and Wa boarders.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-24-2017, 7:10 AM
Wiz-of-Awd's Avatar
Wiz-of-Awd Wiz-of-Awd is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Where I'm at ;)
Posts: 3,556
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Where do we stand, in case I missed it, on AR pistols that were purchased as "single-shot," and are still single shot?

A.W.D.
__________________
Quote:
Seven. The answer is always seven.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 01-24-2017, 9:18 AM
9mmContagion's Avatar
9mmContagion 9mmContagion is online now
👀They’re Watching 👀
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: South PRK
Posts: 3,220
iTrader: 118 / 99%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiz-of-Awd View Post
Where do we stand, in case I missed it, on AR pistols that were purchased as "single-shot," and are still single shot?

A.W.D.
#11 on the Handgun Flow Chart- Is the firearm a semi-automatic? ---> No ---> LEGAL
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-25-2017, 2:01 AM
marausch marausch is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Murrieta
Posts: 73
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Hey, Quiet, I thought that the SSE went away 1/1/16.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01-25-2017, 7:57 PM
Quiet's Avatar
Quiet Quiet is offline
retired Goon
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Bernardino County
Posts: 22,886
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by marausch View Post
Hey, Quiet, I thought that the SSE went away 1/1/16.
The single-shot pistol exemption was amended and that change went into effect on 01-01-2015.

The original single-shot pistol exemption was given the abbreviation of "SSE" and was allowed from 01-01-2001 to 12-31-2014.

SSE only required the pistol to have a minimum 6" barrel length and a minimum 10.5" overall length and operated via single-shot.

The current single-shot pistol exemption was given the abbreviation of "SSE2" and has been allowed since 01-01-2015.

SSE2 requires the pistol to have a minimum 6" barrel length and a minimum 10.5" overall length and operate via bolt-action or break-top and can never have been semi-auto. [PC 32100(b)]

Because SSE2 can not apply to a "semiautomatic pistol that has been temporarily or permanently altered so that it will not fire in a semiautomatic mode", pistols made to comply with SSE2 can not be made from an existing semi-auto pistol or have a functional semi-auto operating system.

AFAIK...
There were no laws/regulations that prohibited a SSE pistol to be made into a semi-auto pistol.
Because of the non semi-auto part of SSE2, some argue that it may be illegal to convert a SSE2 pistol into a semi-auto pistol.
Because of part of the "home built (80%)" firearm laws going into effect, starting 01-01-2017, it may now be illegal to change a SSE2 into a semi-auto pistol due to new definitions that affect "building" firearms going into effect.
__________________


"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.” - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).

Last edited by Quiet; 01-25-2017 at 8:02 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 01-25-2017, 8:41 PM
IAmTheReaper's Avatar
IAmTheReaper IAmTheReaper is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Francisco bay area
Posts: 279
iTrader: 26 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor*Cal View Post
I've said it before and will say it again. As a law abiding gun owner, I am not going to live my life in fear of some overzealous LEO interpreting the law in his own manner. If it happens it happens, but I'm going to continue to live my life and continue to legally configure and shoot my guns. I'm also not going to be intimidated by this states unconstitutional politicians and their anti 2A laws.
Exactly this.
I'm not going to live paranoid or be fearful or overly suspicious. I'm an equal citizen of this country and state, certainly no less than anyone else.

- In 2016 I legally bought firearms.
- In 2016 I legally bought what will be considered AW firearms.
- In 2016 I legally built 80% firearms that will be considered AW firearms.

I bought these specifically to be in compliance ahead of the 12/31/2016 deadlines. I intend to keep these configured as they are, registering again/serializing the 80%s, paying the additional fees, limiting the transporting, etc. I have dotted every "I" and crossed every "T" so far and will continue to do so. I have not Volreg, called the DOJ, or any other activity to serialize-register the 80%-register the AW firearms because there is no clear path and no published application of new laws. When the state has done their job, I'll make my decisions and proceed from there. I might make a mistake at some point in the process, but I'm trying not to. This is all I can do.
__________________
TEAM P.U.N.I.S.H.E.R.

WTB: AK build tools and jigs
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-25-2017, 9:11 PM
marausch marausch is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Murrieta
Posts: 73
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Thanks for the clarity.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 01-25-2017, 9:17 PM
Cokebottle's Avatar
Cokebottle Cokebottle is offline
Señor Member
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: IE, CA
Posts: 31,433
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldarshay View Post
IIRC, a pistol is a pistol, there are no centerfire/rimfire differences for pistols. Therefore, following the flow chart, once the BB was deemed "NOT a fixed magazine device," you move to not being allowed a shroud or threaded barrel.

Yes, if you remove the handguard, you should be G2G
The detachable magazine outside of the pistol grip is a "feature"

There is some question as to whether the BB is still valid for eliminating this "feature" but I would not want to be the test case.

Until a test case is settled, I maintain that is is not possible to build a featureless AR or AK pistol.

It MUST be fixed magazine or break-top.
__________________
- Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 01-26-2017, 9:54 AM
biglou biglou is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,292
iTrader: 16 / 100%
Default

So let see if I understand this. I have a registeted AR pistol with a bullet button, all I have to do is make it break action open to load it with say the ARmaglock and I'm good ? No need to do the AW registration?
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 01-26-2017, 7:56 PM
Cokebottle's Avatar
Cokebottle Cokebottle is offline
Señor Member
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: IE, CA
Posts: 31,433
iTrader: 14 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by biglou View Post
So let see if I understand this. I have a registeted AR pistol with a bullet button, all I have to do is make it break action open to load it with say the ARmaglock and I'm good ? No need to do the AW registration?
Correct.

But when they ban the ARMaglock next year, you'll still have to register and you'll be stuck with breaking the top open forever.

Register this year and you can continue to drop your mags using the BB.
__________________
- Rich

Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 01-26-2017, 10:24 PM
NPFreedom NPFreedom is offline
Vendor/Retailer
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,354
iTrader: 79 / 100%
Default

Thanks for the write up. Tagged for reference.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 02-01-2017, 8:32 PM
Oc plumber Oc plumber is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: OC
Posts: 265
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

So I built an ar pistol back in 13 with some friends , did the 0 end sled and then ran it and have ever since as a semi , I've never registered or anything like that cause I never thought I needed to until now & we can't even do that right? am I misssing something?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 7:32 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.