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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here. |
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#1
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Civilian carbine classes: Bullet-button?
I've heard conflicting view points on this.
Am I really expected to run a carbine course with the bullet-button in CA? This is kind of a sensitive subject so a simple or will be sufficient. |
#3
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There's not much to be confused about. Shooting in competitions or classes does not magically suspend the law of the land, regardless of how ridiculous that law is.
As the above poster says, the only way around the bullet button is to run featureless. The benefit to that is you'll be able to use those regular-capacity magazines you've had since before 2000, instead of the government mandated reduced-capacity magazines.
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Last edited by RazzB7; 09-12-2012 at 2:46 PM.. |
#7
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At the training school where I do all my classes my instructor has the philosophy of "you train with what you have". If you run a " featured" rifle with a BB then you need to be able to manipulate that rifle in a defensive scenario. We had guys with featured and featureless rifles and our instructor does not advocate breaking the law, no matter how dumb they are. If you plan to run a "evil features" rifle in Cali with a BB then you need to learn how to properly manipulate the rifle under stressful/defensive scenarios. Those of us running featured rifles in the Tac Carbine class have gotten pretty good with our BBs. It takes practice. I prefer the Ultimate Bullet Button Tools (http:/ubbt.net)
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NRA, CGF, GSSF, SAF member Certified Glock Armorer 2011, 2016 "Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. -Psalm 144:1 |
#8
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My take:
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| I don't pretend to be an "authority." I'm just a guy who trains a lot, shoots a lot and has a perspective. Check the ZombieTactics Channel on YouTube for all sorts of gun-related goodness CLICK HERE |
#9
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#10
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#11
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You can also build an AR in the featureless configuration.
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#12
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Yes, thank you. I am looking into that as well. Unfortunately, all of my uppers have birdcages on them. I have several stripped lowers so my next build will be a featureless. I've only got one pre-ban 30 rounder, so I still probably wouldn't do well in the class.
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#14
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Also you might find that some of the other students may loan you 20/30 rounders (as long as your rifle is compliant) to use in the course. |
#15
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We enjoy teaching those willing to learn how to use their rifles within the limits of our current statutes...Don't let your rifles configuration keep you off the range or from training.
http://www.gofast1.com/bulletbuttons.php
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Gordon - HONOR ~ Is a way of Life www.gofast1.com "Some situations you may be faced with in life are not black and white. Falling somewhere in between, in the 'Gray' areas." Our mission is to prepare you for those occasions. "We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training." Speed is fine but Accuracy is Final Slow = Smooth & Smooth = Fast, then Slow = Fast Only Hits Count! |
#16
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Yes! It sucks big time and you'll need to change your mag out after every ten rounds. I'd recommend putting your bb tool closer to your chest for quicker change outs. Bring at least 4 mags with you. At least you'll be proficient in you using your rifle in the state of CA.
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#17
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There is a lot to be said for this approach. Becoming better at the non-shooting skills (reloads, movement, transitions, getting in/out of positions) will make you a better overall shooter.
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...because the journey is the worthier part...The Shepherd's Tale |
#18
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Quote:
"When the time to perform arrives, the time to prepare has past"
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Gordon - HONOR ~ Is a way of Life www.gofast1.com "Some situations you may be faced with in life are not black and white. Falling somewhere in between, in the 'Gray' areas." Our mission is to prepare you for those occasions. "We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training." Speed is fine but Accuracy is Final Slow = Smooth & Smooth = Fast, then Slow = Fast Only Hits Count! |
#19
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#20
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Thanks for checking, we do not have any additional classes scheduled for 2012.
We are currently working on our 2013 schedule which I hope to have completed and posted to our web page mid October. With the demand for our Fundamental & Transitional Carbine Courses next year we'll be adding a few more to fill the need. If you have any additional questions, please, don't hesitate to ask.
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Gordon - HONOR ~ Is a way of Life www.gofast1.com "Some situations you may be faced with in life are not black and white. Falling somewhere in between, in the 'Gray' areas." Our mission is to prepare you for those occasions. "We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training." Speed is fine but Accuracy is Final Slow = Smooth & Smooth = Fast, then Slow = Fast Only Hits Count! |
#21
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We have a carbine class scheduled for November. I am the instructor that SA227driver is talking about. PM me if interested on the class details or read about the class listing in training section.
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Darren http://www.5arrowstactical.com/ Follow us on Twitter here. YouTube channel available here. Like us on Facebook here. and on Instagram here. CA DOJ Instructor, NRA Instructor, Multi-State CCW Instructor UT / FL / VA / OR / AZ CCW Instructor Semper Fidelis Ps 144:1 |
#22
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Thanks anyways! |
#23
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If you are ever down this way we would love to have you! Sorry it didn't work out this time.
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Darren http://www.5arrowstactical.com/ Follow us on Twitter here. YouTube channel available here. Like us on Facebook here. and on Instagram here. CA DOJ Instructor, NRA Instructor, Multi-State CCW Instructor UT / FL / VA / OR / AZ CCW Instructor Semper Fidelis Ps 144:1 |
#25
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Gray Ops Firearms Specialty Training 2013 Training Schedule4 (Northern Ca)
We now have our 2013 Schedule Posted thought I'd share it here.
Gray Ops has a unique firearms training philosophy that stands out among all firearms training companies. Our instructors are passionate about making sure every student achieves the required knowledge, skills, and ability to control their immediate surroundings with the use of a firearm. Our objective is for you to obtain or sharpen your already acquired “Skill at Arm’s” and other personal defense skills. Our Combo Handgun Courses now meet Sacramento County's CCW Training Requirements! With the high demand for our Fund/Inter HG & Fund/Trans Carbine classes we've added more classes for 2013 in the hopes to meet and fill your needs. We've also added a new Handgun Skill Builder Course to fill the gap between Intermediate & Advanced. We should have something to fit everyone's needs. If you don't see it ask and we can make it happen! Other training opportunities include Private Lessons, Semi-Private/Small Group Lessons, and if you have a Group of 5+ we can customize training to fit your requirements. January 12 - Fundamental Handgun (Slots Remaining 6) 13 - Intermediate Handgun (Slots Remaining 6) February 2013 2 - Fundamental Carbine (Slots Remaining 10) 3 - Transitional Carbine (Slots Remaining 10) 16 - Defensive Shotgun (Slots Remaining 12) March 2013 2 - Fundamental Handgun (Slots Remaining 12) 3 - Intermediate Handgun (Slots Remaining 12) 16-17 Handgun Skill Builder (Slots Remaining 10) New for 2013! 23-24 Precision Rifle (Slots Remaining 12) April 2013 6 - Fundamental Carbine (Slots Remaining 11) 7 - Transitional Carbine (Slots Remaining 11) 13 - Women's Only Handgun (Slots Remaining 12) 20-21 Carbine Skill Builder (Slots Remaining 12) May 2013 4 - Fundamental Handgun (Slots Remaining 11) 5 - Intermediate Handgun (Slots Remaining 10) June 2013 1 - Fundamental Carbine (Slots Remaining 11) 2 - Transitional Carbine (Slots Remaining 11) 29-30 Advanced Carbine (Slots Remaining 12) July 2013 6 - Fundamental Handgun (Slots Remaining 12) 7 - Intermediate Handgun (Slots Remaining 12) 13-14 Advanced Handgun (Slots Remaining 12) August 2013 3 - Defensive Shotgun (Slots Remaining 12) 10 - Fundamental Carbine (Slots Remaining 12) 11 - Transitional Carbine (Slots Remaining 12) 24-25 Handgun Skill Builder (Slots Remaining 12) New for 2013! September 2013 7 - Fundamental Handgun (Slots Remaining 12) 8 - Intermediate Handgun (Slots Remaining 12) 15 - Women's Only Handgun (Slots Remaining 12) 21-22 Advanced Handgun October 2013 5 - Fundamental Carbine (Slots Remaining 12) 6 - Transitional Carbine (Slots Remaining 12) 19-20 Carbine Skill Builder (Slots Remaining 12) November 2013 2 - Fundamental Handgun (Slots Remaining 12) 3 - Intermediate Handgun (Slots Remaining 12) 16-17 Advanced Carbine (Slots Remaining 12) Our goal is for you to be competent, confident, and comfortable with the weapon of your choice. We have an outstanding success rate due to our willingness to spend the time necessary for you to achieve a level where you are safe and skilled. Gray Ops stresses a personal - but no nonsense – approach. Students learn not only the mechanics of firearm safety and use but the responsibilities gun ownership/use requires. We offer small classes, with a minimum of a 1 to 5 instructor/student ratio to provide the most of our experience. You will not get lost in a crowd. For additional course details visit our web site www.gofast1.com Class Schedule is subject to change without notice, additional classes will most likely be added as we nail down the dates. Thanks for all the support in 2012 we at Gray Ops are here for our students when ever the need arises. We are looking forward to seeing you at one of the classes in 2013!
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Gordon - HONOR ~ Is a way of Life www.gofast1.com "Some situations you may be faced with in life are not black and white. Falling somewhere in between, in the 'Gray' areas." Our mission is to prepare you for those occasions. "We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training." Speed is fine but Accuracy is Final Slow = Smooth & Smooth = Fast, then Slow = Fast Only Hits Count! |
#26
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The following video is of our Rifle 1 class on 11/17...there were 5 rifles with bullet buttons (1 of which was an AK), one featureless and a Mini 14:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT2oqwb3v70 The gentleman running the AK (which has a challenging bullet button) did a great job with emergency reloads using a screwdriver.
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"Find out what works for you...and evolve." "It's not how fast you shoot. It's how you shoot fast." |
#27
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Please visit my firearms training website at http://www.stcrispian.com Last edited by Stan08; 11-21-2012 at 9:26 PM.. |
#28
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Happy Thanksgiving EVERYONE!
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Gordon - HONOR ~ Is a way of Life www.gofast1.com "Some situations you may be faced with in life are not black and white. Falling somewhere in between, in the 'Gray' areas." Our mission is to prepare you for those occasions. "We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training." Speed is fine but Accuracy is Final Slow = Smooth & Smooth = Fast, then Slow = Fast Only Hits Count! |
#29
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For anyone that's attended carbine courses in California with out of state instructors (e.g. Costa, etc.), do the instructors configure their carbines in accordance with California laws? Is there something in the law that excludes them from complying?
Thanks for any help. |
#30
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X2 TO THAT. THE END RESULT A SHOOTER WITH BETTER SITUATIONAL AWARENESS.
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