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  #1  
Old 09-23-2017, 4:55 PM
marvzz marvzz is offline
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Default Question about buying handgun without magazine

Hey everyone. Just signed up to try to get an answer to a question.

Short version:
Are there any issues with purchasing a gun without magazines?

Longer version:
I'm looking at picking up a Glock 19 (Gen 3 of course). I was able to find a dealer out of state that could give me a pretty good deal on it. Unfortunately, said dealer doesn't have any Glocks in stock with 10 round magazines so he was just going to send it without magazines. I could possibly be saving enough on this to still beat any local prices even with buying magazines separately. Talking to my FFL, he mentioned it might not even be possible to DROS to me (civilian) because it didn't come from the factory with 10 round magazines.

And to add some detail, my savings would be from a lower price and I think tax exemption since its a transfer and not from an online retailer. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: Thanks for all the input everyone. I'll probably end up buying local.

TIA

Last edited by marvzz; 09-23-2017 at 8:29 PM.. Reason: Update:
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  #2  
Old 09-23-2017, 4:58 PM
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The only issue you MIGHT run into is that FFL wanting to do a safe handling demonstration with your gun. I have purchased guns from FFLs that don't do this. I have also purchased where they DO make you go through it, but it was with a different gun (not the one I'm purchasing).

The FFL you're going to SHOULD have a spare Glock magazine to perform the safe handling demo ... if that's how they roll.
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  #3  
Old 09-23-2017, 5:07 PM
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You will need a magazine for the safe handling demo, unless you are exempt.

Your transfer is NOT tax exempt, your FFL is required to collect tax on the purchase price.

Are you aware that your FFL will charge a transfer fee of their choosing in addition to the $25 DROS fee? This is where most lose the savings of finding a lower price online. Expect $50-$75, some are as low as $25, but rarely.

Don't expect your FFL to change their policy based on a forum post either, their house: their rules.

Where are you located? We can recommend an FFL with a low transfer fee.

Or more importantly, how much are you paying for the glock? Over $400, and you're not going to save any money.
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  #4  
Old 09-23-2017, 5:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse View Post
The only issue you MIGHT run into is that FFL wanting to do a safe handling demonstration with your gun. I have purchased guns from FFLs that don't do this. I have also purchased where they DO make you go through it, but it was with a different gun (not the one I'm purchasing).

The FFL you're going to SHOULD have a spare Glock magazine to perform the safe handling demo ... if that's how they roll.
Ok. So I shouldn't have any issues with it not coming with 10 rd mags? Any suggestions for good places to order some?

I'm sure they'd let me use one of theirs to do the safe handling demo. I'm not too worried about that.
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  #5  
Old 09-23-2017, 5:11 PM
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You'll still pay tax so there's no savings there. Also factor in shipping cost & the receiving FFLs transfer fee, which is typically $30-75 but some shops charge $100 or more. Plus about $20 for the mags you'll need to buy.

Realistically unless the selling price is around $300 you won't get any savings vs a $500 local purchase.
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Old 09-23-2017, 5:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnichols View Post
You will need a magazine for the safe handling demo, unless you are exempt.

Your transfer is NOT tax exempt, your FFL is required to collect tax on the purchase price.

Are you aware that your FFL will charge a transfer fee of their choosing in addition to the $25 DROS fee? This is where most lose the savings of finding a lower price online. Expect $50-$75, some are as low as $25, but rarely.

Don't expect your FFL to change their policy based on a forum post either, their house: their rules.

Where are you located? We can recommend an FFL with a low transfer fee.

Or more importantly, how much are you paying for the glock? Over $400, and you're not going to save any money.
Ok. It think this was the answer I was looking for. Tax savings goes out the door and that was my main reason on whether to try to deal with this or just get one online.

I am aware the transfer fee is separate from the DROS. I'm going through Primo Tactical in Walnut Creek.

Pricing for both Glocks were over $400, under $500 and about a $50 difference between sources. All the Glock 19s i've seen locally were over $500, and I haven't seen anything under $400. I'd love to be know where to get one under $400 if I could go that route.
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Old 09-23-2017, 5:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcheung2 View Post
You'll still pay tax so there's no savings there. Also factor in shipping cost & the receiving FFLs transfer fee, which is typically $30-75 but some shops charge $100 or more. Plus about $20 for the mags you'll need to buy.

Realistically unless the selling price is around $300 you won't get any savings vs a $500 local purchase.
I gotcha. Yea, I realize the savings are minimal, but every little bit counts. This would be my first purchase so I've still got to get a safe, ammo, cleaning kit.

Are shops willing to negotiate price at all? I'm not thinking like a car dealer, but if one shop has a price lower than the one you're at or would like to support, how open are they in general to that?
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  #8  
Old 09-23-2017, 5:34 PM
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Join Glock sport shooting foundation (GSSF) If you sign up for a 2 year membership, which is about $60, they will send you a coupon for a blue label Glock right now, and a second coupon a year from now. A blue label Glock 17 or 19 is just over $400 and comes with three mags. Only caveat is that you need to find a blue label dealer. There is a list of dealers on the GSSF website.
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  #9  
Old 09-23-2017, 5:37 PM
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No way, no how do you buy a G19G3 out of state and save money. Especially one without mags. This has money loser written all over it.

And should you decide to test the theory, you better make sure it is an Austrian Glock, because the USA Gen 3 Glocks are not on the roster. You also better be sure the out of state dealer enrolls in and uses the CA DOJ CFLC website to get shipping approval.

Good luck

Quote:
Originally Posted by marvzz View Post
Are shops willing to negotiate price at all? I'm not thinking like a car dealer, but if one shop has a price lower than the one you're at or would like to support, how open are they in general to that?
Some local gun stores will price match other local stores. But $499 is usually the bottom for the gun you are looking at. Sometimes you will find them $479 net, such as when the dealer offers to pay tax. Glock enforces a minimum price and that seems to be $499 unless you get a blue label price via GSSF.
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Last edited by SkyHawk; 09-23-2017 at 5:42 PM..
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Old 09-23-2017, 5:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
No way, no how do you buy a G19G3 out of state and save money. This has money loser written all over it.
Agreed. It would need to be under $400 to even begin making sense vs a regular price Glock from a local retailer. And under $350 if it doesn't come with mags.
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Old 09-23-2017, 5:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boopiejones View Post
Agreed. It would need to be under $400 to even begin making sense vs a regular price Glock from a local retailer. And under $350 if it doesn't come with mags.
You are right, and that sort of price in itself would raise all sorts of red flags since Glock has MAP. At that point, you start asking yourself what is wrong with the gun. Refurb, mixmaster serial, used, QC reject etc.

http://www11.davidsonsinc.com/ManufM...MAP-policy.pdf

Quote:
GLOCK, Inc. (“GLOCK”) has in place a Distributor/Dealer minimum advertised price policy (“MAP Policy”) which shall apply to all Distributors/Dealers, including catalogs and internet retailers (“Resellers”) or anyone to whom the Distributor sells or otherwise transfers GLOCK products, e.g., licensed firearms retail dealers (“Dealers”).
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Last edited by SkyHawk; 09-23-2017 at 5:47 PM..
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  #12  
Old 09-23-2017, 6:33 PM
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Look at the big picture. How much do you spend on a tank of gas, a cart of groceries, or anything else? Is trying to save a couple bucks for an out of state transfer for a common gun really worth the hassle? If you can't afford it this month, why not wait another month to save what you need? After all, you have gone this long in life without a gun and have been fine. Then you can have the convenience of buying locally AND get all the parts that are supposed to come with the gun? Is saving $25-100 really worth the extra hassle? Buy what you can afford.

My time is money. Wasting time with extra hassles adds up pretty quick, making a more expensive "complete" deal more worth it than a discounted out-of-state transaction that comes with incomplete parts, transfer fees, etc. not worth it at all. Save up what you need and buy when you are ready, don't compromise just to try to save a few bucks. It will probably cost you more in the long run if you compromise.

Last edited by jdg30; 09-23-2017 at 6:38 PM..
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  #13  
Old 09-23-2017, 6:49 PM
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Bay area glock prices are way too high.
But you gotta figure they have to pay their employees more and office space costs more out there.
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Old 09-23-2017, 7:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marvzz View Post
I gotcha. Yea, I realize the savings are minimal, but every little bit counts. This would be my first purchase so I've still got to get a safe, ammo, cleaning kit.

Are shops willing to negotiate price at all? I'm not thinking like a car dealer, but if one shop has a price lower than the one you're at or would like to support, how open are they in general to that?
For people in the Sacramento area, River City has LEO trade-ins for a reasonable price. The G17 is $420 with 1 mag, and G22/G23s are $370-$400. They usually have a few in the back, so don't just pick the display one. The ones I've bought have been in pristine condition and were about 6-8 years old.

The cons are that after adding the 2nd mag to equal a new purchase, the price difference is only $55 for a gun with unknown round count & definite holster wear. The pros are that police guns are generally shot very little, well maintained, and still have usable night sights.

Ideally you should have a safe but depending on your living situation it may not be necessary. And a cleaning kit can be an old toothbrush, an old tshirt, and a dab of motor oil. It's a Glock after all, not a custom 1911.

Also, have you thought about other guns? New Springfield XDs are in the low $400s, and Sig 2022 is about $450.
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Old 09-23-2017, 8:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdg30 View Post
Look at the big picture. How much do you spend on a tank of gas, a cart of groceries, or anything else? Is trying to save a couple bucks for an out of state transfer for a common gun really worth the hassle? If you can't afford it this month, why not wait another month to save what you need? After all, you have gone this long in life without a gun and have been fine. Then you can have the convenience of buying locally AND get all the parts that are supposed to come with the gun? Is saving $25-100 really worth the extra hassle? Buy what you can afford.

My time is money. Wasting time with extra hassles adds up pretty quick, making a more expensive "complete" deal more worth it than a discounted out-of-state transaction that comes with incomplete parts, transfer fees, etc. not worth it at all. Save up what you need and buy when you are ready, don't compromise just to try to save a few bucks. It will probably cost you more in the long run if you compromise.
I value my time too. I haven't invested much besides a few phone calls and texts. It's not that I can't afford it, just looking for the best deal. Seems like prices pretty much the same all over.
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Old 09-23-2017, 8:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcheung2 View Post
For people in the Sacramento area, River City has LEO trade-ins for a reasonable price. The G17 is $420 with 1 mag, and G22/G23s are $370-$400. They usually have a few in the back, so don't just pick the display one. The ones I've bought have been in pristine condition and were about 6-8 years old.

The cons are that after adding the 2nd mag to equal a new purchase, the price difference is only $55 for a gun with unknown round count & definite holster wear. The pros are that police guns are generally shot very little, well maintained, and still have usable night sights.

Ideally you should have a safe but depending on your living situation it may not be necessary. And a cleaning kit can be an old toothbrush, an old tshirt, and a dab of motor oil. It's a Glock after all, not a custom 1911.

Also, have you thought about other guns? New Springfield XDs are in the low $400s, and Sig 2022 is about $450.
I have thought about other guns. But realistically the one I get will probably only one I get so I figured I'd just get the one I want.
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Old 09-23-2017, 9:18 PM
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I'm assuming the glock your purchasing is about $450, factor in the 2 magazines that your not getting, thats about $50. Let's say you find a good price for an FFL Transfer, $50 at your local gun shop.

Now your at $550, sure you might've saved $20-$50 or you might end up paying around the same price or even more than what Glocks go for at your local gun shop.

Then the seller has to ship it which is going to cost you another $20 or so, and you have to wait a couple days for it to arrive at your local gun shop with the chances of something going wrong with the shipment or the handgun not being in the condition you expect it to be. All that just to save a few bucks when you could walk into your local gunshop, BS with the guys, check out a few different guns and buy your glock right then and there to support them.

Support your local gun shop whenever you can, especially if there are good guys working there. If your saving like a $100 I get it, that's a lot of money to some people, but if your only saving $30 or so, why not support the good gun shops around your area especially at times like these.
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Old 09-23-2017, 11:13 PM
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This is a textbook example of ..... "Penny wise and dollar dumb!!!"
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Old 09-24-2017, 6:21 AM
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Around here (Central Coast), FFLs all charge $125.00 for out of state transfers, and they collect tax. Add shipping costs, and there goes your savings.
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Old 09-24-2017, 7:06 AM
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Very little if any savings.Plus dealing with an out of state Ffl if something is wrong with your Glock very unlikely it is a Glock . We are not talking about a hard to get item here or something very expensive and saving hundreds of dollars . Go down to you local Ffl and Purchase the same Gun new .Knowing that its your Pistol and you are first person to shoot it . Make Friends and enjoy.the experience.
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Old 09-24-2017, 7:58 AM
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I think you are making a fine choice for your first handgun; I've had my G19 for many years and it's a great gun. Also glad to see you are going to buy locally, good move there. Only mistake I see is you thinking it will be your only hand gun. It won't be, trust me!
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Old 09-24-2017, 2:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marvzz View Post
Short version:
Are there any issues with purchasing a gun without magazines?
The only legal issue would be...

The mandatory safe handling demonstration [PC 26850(a)] requires a functional magazine [PC 26853].
^Some CA FFL dealers will provide a magazine for the demo and some do not & they require the transferee to provide a magazine for the demo.

Only persons exempt from the safe handling demonstration are persons who are exempt from needing a FSC. [PC 26850(h)]



Penal Code 26850
(a) Except as authorized by the department, no firearms dealer may deliver a handgun unless the recipient performs a safe handling demonstration with that handgun.
(b) The safe handling demonstration shall commence with the handgun unloaded and locked with the firearm safety device with which it is required to be delivered, if applicable. While maintaining muzzle awareness, that is, the firearm is pointed in a safe direction, preferably down at the ground, and trigger discipline, that is, the trigger finger is outside of the trigger guard and along side of the handgun frame, at all times, the handgun recipient shall correctly and safely perform the following:
(1) If the handgun is a semiautomatic pistol, the steps listed in Section 26853.
(2) If the handgun is a double-action revolver, the steps listed in Section 26856.
(3) If the handgun is a single-action revolver, the steps listed in Section 26859.
(c) The recipient shall receive instruction regarding how to render that handgun safe in the event of a jam.
(d) The firearms dealer shall sign and date an affidavit stating that the requirements of subdivisions (a) and (b) have been met. The firearms dealer shall additionally obtain the signature of the handgun purchaser on the same affidavit. The firearms dealer shall retain the original affidavit as proof of compliance with this requirement.
(e) The recipient shall perform the safe handling demonstration for a department-certified instructor.
(f) No demonstration shall be required if the dealer is returning the handgun to the owner of the handgun.
(g) Department-certified instructors who may administer the safe handling demonstration shall meet the requirements set forth in subdivision (b) of Section 31635.
(h) The persons who are exempt from the requirements of subdivision (a) of Section 31615, pursuant to Section 31700, are also exempt from performing the safe handling demonstration.

Penal Code 26853
To comply with Section 26850, a safe handling demonstration for a semiautomatic pistol shall include all of the following steps:
(a) Remove the magazine.
(b) Lock the slide back. If the model of firearm does not allow the slide to be locked back, pull the slide back, visually and physically check the chamber to ensure that it is clear.
(c) Visually and physically inspect the chamber, to ensure that the handgun is unloaded.
(d) Remove the firearm safety device, if applicable. If the firearm safety device prevents any of the previous steps, remove the firearm safety device during the appropriate step.
(e) Load one bright orange, red, or other readily identifiable dummy round into the magazine. If no readily identifiable dummy round is available, an empty cartridge casing with an empty primer pocket may be used.
(f) Insert the magazine into the magazine well of the firearm.
(g) Manipulate the slide release or pull back and release the slide.
(h) Remove the magazine.
(i) Visually inspect the chamber to reveal that a round can be chambered with the magazine removed.
(j) Lock the slide back to eject the bright orange, red, or other readily identifiable dummy round. If the handgun is of a model that does not allow the slide to be locked back, pull the slide back and physically check the chamber to ensure that the chamber is clear. If no readily identifiable dummy round is available, an empty cartridge casing with an empty primer pocket may be used.
(k) Apply the safety, if applicable.
(l) Apply the firearm safety device, if applicable. This requirement shall not apply to an Olympic competition pistol if no firearm safety device, other than a cable lock that the department has determined would damage the barrel of the pistol, has been approved for the pistol, and the pistol is either listed in subdivision (b) of Section 32105 or is subject to subdivision (c) of Section 32105.
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Old 09-24-2017, 4:48 PM
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Look at Davidson's Gallery of Guns and get an "Instant Quote" from FFLs near you. This will give you a price including taxes and fees. If nothing else it gives you an idea of what you can get a Glock 19 for from your local FFL.
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Old 09-24-2017, 7:32 PM
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I was just in the same boat as you looking to score a good deal on a G17, I would search the marketplace here day in and day out and when I thought I had a good deal lined up($480 with only 1 mag) I factored in the FFL fee’s, my time spent driving to meet the seller and the time/gas spent 10 days later to pick it up that it no longer appealed to me. Ended up purchasing a brand new G17 from Angeles Armory for $590 OTD including DROS and got a free range day coupon ($20)
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Old 09-25-2017, 4:01 PM
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Another suggestion would be to ask your local dealer if they can find you a nice used one from one of their wholesale distributors. That's how I found a nice G23 a couple years ago. $390 (and it had 3 mags). I forgot the name, but a place in Kansas? seems to obtain a LOT of used Glocks from L.E.
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Old 09-25-2017, 4:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse View Post
The only issue you MIGHT run into is that FFL wanting to do a safe handling demonstration with your gun. I have purchased guns from FFLs that don't do this. I have also purchased where they DO make you go through it, but it was with a different gun (not the one I'm purchasing).

The FFL you're going to SHOULD have a spare Glock magazine to perform the safe handling demo ... if that's how they roll.
Or just buy a magazine, and bring it with you when you pick up the gun. You gotta buy magazines, anyways, might as well get them now.
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Old 09-25-2017, 5:08 PM
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I would find out what your local FFL's charge for PPT/dealer transfers
Legally FLL are not allowed to charge more than $10 + DROS.
But some of them make up some type charge/fee to make money, since they aren't making any money on the transfer.

Unless the deal is THAT much better than buying new, used local just pony up the extra cash and do it local.

I believe I read somewhere on here about joining GSST, and receiving the "blue label" disco. So, there's another option.
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Old 09-25-2017, 5:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dribear View Post
I would find out what your local FFL's charge for PPT/dealer transfers
Legally FLL are not allowed to charge more than $10 + DROS.
But some of them make up some type charge/fee to make money, since they aren't making any money on the transfer.

Unless the deal is THAT much better than buying new, used local just pony up the extra cash and do it local.

I believe I read somewhere on here about joining GSST, and receiving the "blue label" disco. So, there's another option.
Under CA laws/regulations...

When buying from dealer inventory = $25 DROS fee

When doing a PPT = $25 DROS fee + $10 dealer fee

When doing a non-PPT = $25 DROS fee + whatever the dealer feels like charging (can be $20 to $250, there is no legal limit)

PPT = face-to-face transfer between two CA residents.
^If one of the parties involved is a non-resident of CA, then it's not a PPT.
^If the firearm is shipped, then it's not a PPT.
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  #29  
Old 09-25-2017, 5:28 PM
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JS41989 JS41989 is offline
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In my opinion... Shipping in the gun, transfer fees, taxes, etc. usually aren't worth finding a better deal online. Especially on something that's already as affordable as a Glock 19.
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Old 09-25-2017, 5:38 PM
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cockedandglocked cockedandglocked is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JS41989 View Post
In my opinion... Shipping in the gun, transfer fees, taxes, etc. usually aren't worth finding a better deal online. Especially on something that's already as affordable as a Glock 19.
...that you have to buy $25 magazines for because it came with none
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