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  #121  
Old 11-02-2017, 2:21 PM
MajorCaliber MajorCaliber is offline
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I guess I'll believe a significant change has occurred when I see people posting on Calguns that they got approved under circumstances that apply to most of us, or after a previous GC denial, without a change in circumstances. Until then, I'm highly skeptical.
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  #122  
Old 11-02-2017, 2:54 PM
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^^^ Same here. If "self defense" doesn't become good cause for uncle bill-its just election year posturing.
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  #123  
Old 11-02-2017, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
I was the one that saved his $ and didn't spend any of it on this futile exercise.


Once again, you make no sense. If you're referring to submitting an application to the SD SO using SD = GC, pending finalization of Peruta, when we ultimately lost it you would just contact SD SO and tell them you're withdrawing your application they're holding and they'd return the check you enclosed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
Gore runs this county, I live in it. You do not. Come on down and check it out for yourself. Nothing has changed here no matter what Gore "says". He does not issue no matter what he says.
In case you missed it the first time, I'll repeat what I said before:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
The bottom line is SDCGOPAC knows what they're talking about. They've been in recent discussions with Sheriff Gore (himself).

Have you?
It does not matter where I live. SDCGOPAC is the one behind this, not me. They are in San Diego. They have been in contact with Sheriff Gore recently. Have you??? Are you even a member of SDCGOPAC? Teddy Roosevelt perfectly described you: a do nothing critic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
I've been around long enough to know you go by what someone does, not by what they say they will do. Results matter, not promises.
Well, duh! That's why SDCGOPAC is suggesting willing applicants apply now to see if Gore has actually improved the process as well as liberalized issuance.

But, as I found out earlier in this very thread, talking with you is a waste of time (post #74 and following, but esp at #89 and following).

Do what you want.
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Last edited by Paladin; 11-02-2017 at 11:45 PM..
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  #124  
Old 11-02-2017, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorCaliber View Post
I guess I'll believe a significant change has occurred when I see people posting on Calguns that they got approved under circumstances that apply to most of us, or after a previous GC denial, without a change in circumstances. Until then, I'm highly skeptical.
Yeah... So? Do you think I believe mere words from a politician?

I guess you missed my earlier post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
UNLESS Gore changes his stance and says he'll accept SD = GC AND actually starts issuing for SD = GC (unlike Myers, Gore can prove his word since he's in office now and can start issuing for SD = GC right now), I'd "hold my nose" (because I'm a pro-Trump Christian conservative) and donate & volunteer for Myers. The sooner Myers gets support, the stronger challenger he'll be and as we all know, challenging an incumbent sheriff is a rarely won fight. How much do you want a CA CCW? What do you have to lose???
FWIW back in the 2014 sheriffs campaign, the incumbent in San Joaquin (Sheriff Steve Moore) was facing a viable challenger (like SD Co this year). He said he'd liberalize issuance. Our side said do it now, (I think this was, like now, more than 6 months before the election), and actually issue CCWs for SD = GC, or we'll throw our support behind the challenger. He did, they supported him and he's still issuing CCWs with SD as GC.

"Personal protection or self-defense is sufficient to establish good cause." From: https://www.sjgov.org/sheriff/ccwreq.html

Something similar MIGHT be happening here. But we'll never know if people in SD Co who really want a CCW do NOT get in touch with SDCGOPAC and then actually apply and let them know how it went. Contact info for SDCGOPAC is at: http://sandiegocountygunowners.com/contact/

Again, do not forget, Gore stopped fighting against Peruta after we won the 3-judge panel. After that, AG Kamala Harris stepped in to keep fighting us, not Gore. If the CA SC hadn't allowed her to play games to intercede, we would have SD = GC for the entire 9th Circuit right now.
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  #125  
Old 11-02-2017, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sofbak View Post
^^^ Same here. If "self defense" doesn't become good cause for uncle bill-its just election year posturing.
Unfortunately, Gore can easily "liberalize" issuance of CCWs without going all the way to where we want, where SD = GC. There are a number of counties ("light green" in the CA CCW GC map), that readily issue, but require more than just PP/SD, and quite often, evidence to support your GC.

But again, this is all just speculating and SDCGOPAC wants to know, not speculate. Thus, once again, if you can afford to waste the time, money and effort involved with applying and possibly getting denied (and possibly getting approved), get in touch with them to see if you can help.

Either way, all you folks in SD Co should seriously consider joining SDCGOPAC. Not only are the in discussions with the sheriffs candidates, trying to decide whom to support (if anyone), they've also been working on SD Co city PDs to get Chiefs to issue. IOW, they're knee deep in the fight for your RKBA in SD Co.
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  #126  
Old 11-03-2017, 9:57 AM
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Just because a local guy is talking to Sheriff Gore doesn't mean anything has changed here. So he talks, so what? Actions have not changed here. Some here after Peruta was filed invested a lot of cash for applications, training etc, but got nothing.

Why don't you call Gore's office and find out for yourself? Yes, it's a toll call from NorCal. Ask them if they are issuing for "Good Cause" and ask how many have been issued this year? Then ask them what their definition of "Good Cause" is.

Falsly pinning hopes that a private citizen or group here alone can change the qualifing determination here is just that. If you believe that will happen here you need to come down and talk to people.
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  #127  
Old 11-07-2017, 12:15 PM
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Well, here you go. Mr. Myers has put his CCW policy and procedures in writing (courtesy of SDCGO PAC):

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1396829

And self defense is clearly identified as "good cause".

If it "sticks" through to election, day I won't be wasting any time, or my vote for uncle bill or his wordsmithing shenanigans to protect his re-election...... Myers FTW.
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  #128  
Old 11-07-2017, 1:55 PM
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Let's hope there is a debate and the question is asked.
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  #129  
Old 11-07-2017, 2:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
Let's hope there is a debate and the question is asked.
Since you are super cautious about your vote, i'd be nice if you could make it so you can hear it from the horses mouth.
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  #130  
Old 11-07-2017, 5:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devilmonkey89 View Post
Since you are super cautious about your vote, i'd be nice if you could make it so you can hear it from the horses mouth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
Let's hope there is a debate and the question is asked.
From the horses mouth?

Debate?

Again,

From this link:

https://sdrostra.com/san-diego-count...sheriffs-race/

found in post #18 in this thread-you can hear it from "the horses mouth", in a "debate" with Mr. Scwartz.......
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  #131  
Old 11-07-2017, 7:38 PM
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Did y'all see the article in Sunday's paper about Gore and CCW?

This issue is taking heat and Gore is wanting to keep his job.
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  #132  
Old 11-08-2017, 9:05 AM
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Originally Posted by baranski View Post
Did y'all see the article in Sunday's paper about Gore and CCW?

This issue is taking heat and Gore is wanting to keep his job.
I did a quick google news search and didn't see anything in the past week. They must have ran the article in print only and not online.

Can you give a little more details from the article? Thanks.
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  #133  
Old 11-08-2017, 10:57 AM
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Casting a vote for any democrat here is really testing me. I know the CA democrap party is full on the Australia gun confiscation platform. Polititians lie and change positions like the weather here.

I might just sit this one out. I can't vote for a California democrat. It's against my better nature. I might miss making things better here at the larger risk of making things here worse. I still feel the guilt for other bad votes I've cast. I might stop voting just to clear my head out from all this crap. So far voting hasn't done me any good here.
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  #134  
Old 11-13-2017, 4:55 PM
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At the end of this article you will see why you don't want to vote for David Myers for CCW reasons.

http://newsblaze.com/business/legal/...d-carry_89489/

The Democrats at the State level will make it incredibly difficult to obtain a CCW let alone they can make the whole state "May Issue" so they can have uniformity throughout the state.

Wake up people we don't need another Democrat in office!

In addition, I have seen that the Deputy Sheriff Association is behind Gore and not Myers. They know more about him than the average person.
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  #135  
Old 11-14-2017, 8:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PTLaro View Post
At the end of this article you will see why you don't want to vote for David Myers for CCW reasons.

http://newsblaze.com/business/legal/...d-carry_89489/

The Democrats at the State level will make it incredibly difficult to obtain a CCW let alone they can make the whole state "May Issue" so they can have uniformity throughout the state.

Wake up people we don't need another Democrat in office!

In addition, I have seen that the Deputy Sheriff Association is behind Gore and not Myers. They know more about him than the average person.
While the Sheriff Association may be endorsing Gore, i have spoken to plenty of deputies that support Myers. In the end, the association will support who feels works in their best interest and not necessarily in the best interest of the public and the deputies.
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  #136  
Old 11-16-2017, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baranski View Post
Did y'all see the article in Sunday's paper about Gore and CCW?

This issue is taking heat and Gore is wanting to keep his job.
Quotes & link?
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  #137  
Old 11-16-2017, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PTLaro View Post
At the end of this article you will see why you don't want to vote for David Myers for CCW reasons.

http://newsblaze.com/business/legal/...d-carry_89489/

The Democrats at the State level will make it incredibly difficult to obtain a CCW let alone they can make the whole state "May Issue" so they can have uniformity throughout the state.

Wake up people we don't need another Democrat in office!


First off, what does the sheriff in San Diego -- or any sheriff -- have to do with what Dems in Sacto pass or don't pass re. CCWs? Testify? That's it. Sheriffs aren't members of the CA Assembly or Senate, so they can't vote on it, and they're not the governor, so they can't veto or sign off on it.

Sacto Dems will do what they want -- and pass what they want -- regardless of who is sheriff in San Diego. The fundamental issue is: do you want a CCW or not? Unless Gore quickly makes a clear pro-CCW statement and follows it up by liberally issuing CCWs, your only choice is to vote for Myers. How much is your life worth vs how much would a Dem sheriffs other policies affect you (and yours)?

Second off, look at Gore's CCW issuance practice. Remember he fought us up to the 3-judge panel's decision. Do you think he'd testify in favor of "Shall Issue" or whole state restrictive "May Issue"? He fought against "virtual" Shall Issue (SD = GC) in the courts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PTLaro View Post
In addition, I have seen that the Deputy Sheriff Association is behind Gore and not Myers. They know more about him than the average person.
Please provide a link of where the Deputy Sheriffs Association has come out for "Shall Issue" CCWs. Until then, I don't give a flying ... heck what they say or do! IMO, they just care about their member deputies' interests: working conditions, work load, hours, pay, benefits, retirement...

ETA: Here's some help for you. Here's their website. I was unable to find any pro-residential (aka "civilian") CCW policy statement. Please post a link to where they advocate a lower GC requirement for civilian CCWs. http://www.dsasd.org/ Note well: they do have a webpage devoted to CCWs for retired LEOs, so they're willing to address the issue for themselves, but not for "mere" civilians/American citizens/"serfs"! http://www.dsasd.org/ccw

That's why SD gun owners need (and have!) an organization that cares about their interests: San Diego County Gun Owners PAC!
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Last edited by Paladin; 11-16-2017 at 3:19 PM..
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  #138  
Old 11-18-2017, 3:22 PM
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Quote:
The 47-year law enforcement veteran also said he has not issued or received a request to debate his lone rival — sheriff’s Cmdr. Dave Myers — ahead of the June 2018 primary.

“It would be problematic” to debate his Democratic Party-endorsed employee, he said. “It’s like [fighting] with one armed tied behind my back because of all the laws … [limiting expression of] my opinion of why he shouldn’t be sheriff.”

Contacted via Facebook, Myers campaign manager Johnathan Parker said: “Tentatively, we’d like to issue a debate challenge in late February for an event that would (hypothetically) take place shortly before the first ballots go out by mail.”

Parker elaborated: “When I say ‘hypothetically,’ I say it because I know Gore’s never going to accept the challenge.”

And Myers issued a statement: “I’d be very interested to hear Gore’s explanation of why it’s ‘problematic.’ I think that’s an excuse and he knows it’s not in his best interest to debate.
From: https://timesofsandiego.com/politics...-diego-county/
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  #139  
Old 11-18-2017, 7:40 PM
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Are some of you more willing to go with the devil you know rather than the one you don't? If you're a single issue voter then it doesn't make any sense to continue voting for Gore. If you aren't, then continued voting for him might make some sense.

I, for one, won't be voting for him. It's part of my anti-incumbent voting I settled on last year. If there is a (Incumbent) under their name on the ballot I won't be voting for them. The fastest way to change the government is for people to vote out the incumbents. If everyone did that that government would change and no term limits would be needed.
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  #140  
Old 11-18-2017, 8:17 PM
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The best argument for electing Dave Myers that I've seen is Sheriff Gore's ideas of what it means to liberalize his CCW GC standard. Go to: http://sandiegocountygunowners.com/ccw/

Watch the 4 min video. Read the SDCGOPAC response and be sure to read Gore's ideas at: http://sandiegocountygunowners.com/w...y-9-6-2017.pdf



Gore just doesn't get it. He "sees no reason to change" SD's CCW policy. If I lived in SD Co., I'd tell him "I see a reason for you to change your policy: so I can get a CCW to defend myself. I'm sure there's lots of folks here tonight who also want to get a CCW so they can defend themselves and see it as a reason you should change your policy. If you disagree with that, you don't represent our interests and we'll elect someone who will issue CCWs to us!"
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Last edited by Paladin; 11-18-2017 at 9:08 PM..
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  #141  
Old 11-19-2017, 11:47 PM
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We are fighting the CCW issue on many fronts and not putting all our eggs in any one basket.
1. We are working with cities to issue through their police chief.
2. We are working with cities who do not have a police chief to pass official statements asking Gore to change his policy.
3. We are putting pressure on Gore to issue by stopping past supporters from giving him endorsements and donations. (Example: The San Diego Republican Party and The New Majority both endorsed him last time and have not this season which is due to our efforts.)
4. We are working with Dave Myers to flesh out his policy (published) and we will discuss endorsing him in January.
5. We are testing Gore's "new" good cause policy. If you notice, he added 7 bullet points on his website. (seen here: https://www.sdsheriff.net/licensing/ccw.html) That is the best we could get after talks with Gore and his staff. We are asking people to apply so we can either see just how much he has changed or we can prove he has not. In the process we hope to get a few people permits.
Here is a video we made that is a step-by-step process on applying. Help us out and consider applying and then sending us feedback.
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PpXUIEZY4M&t=266s


I also just submitted a response to this really bad article. The author reached out to me for a response. As soon as it is posted, I will be sure to link here.

My apologies for not being on Calguns more often. We are doing a lot and it keeps me very busy. Please consider joining us at our many events. The next is at Alesmith Brewery on December 12th starting at 6pm. It's our annual Christmas Party. Last year we gave away a ton of stuff and had over 400 people attend.
More info on our Christmas Party can be found on our homepage: www.sdcgo.org

We are working hard. Sometimes we win. Sometimes we lose. But we are always working hard. We could use your help.
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  #142  
Old 01-14-2018, 7:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD County Gun Owners PAC View Post
We are fighting the CCW issue on many fronts and not putting all our eggs in any one basket.
...

5. We are testing Gore's "new" good cause policy. If you notice, he added 7 bullet points on his website. (seen here: https://www.sdsheriff.net/licensing/ccw.html) That is the best we could get after talks with Gore and his staff. We are asking people to apply so we can either see just how much he has changed or we can prove he has not. In the process we hope to get a few people permits.
Here is a video we made that is a step-by-step process on applying. Help us out and consider applying and then sending us feedback.
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PpXUIEZY4M&t=266s
A suggestion for the next revision/update of your CCW application video: state how much applicants must pay (what fees? psych eval fee? Livescan fee? training fee?), prior to their GC determination. IOW, how much they'll lose if they're denied a CCW.
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  #143  
Old 01-14-2018, 8:00 PM
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A good question to ask both Myers and Gore is where they stand on the national concealed carry reciprocity bill in Congress that will allow out-of-state visitors to CA to carry in CA if they can legally carry in their home state. The Republicans passed it in the House. President Trump has said he will sign it if it lands on his desk. The Republicans in the Senate will need several Dems to cross the isle to support it to pass the Senate.

Bloomberg and Feinstein and the gun control groups have come out against it. The NRA has said it is their top legislative priority.

Asking Myers this will show how pro-RKBA he really is.

Asking Gore this will show if he's really a Repub or just a RINO. If he's against it and sides with Bloomberg and Feinstein rather than the NRA, that will KILL his support among Repubs, esp activists/donors in SD county.

If Gore supports it, the question then is why he's for out-of-state people who got their CCWs under a Shall Issue system carry in CA when he won't issue CCWs with "self defense" as Good Cause for residents of his own county?
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  #144  
Old 01-14-2018, 8:42 PM
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I guess I'm more cynical than you, or perhaps I did not understand your point.

In my view, we have to pay attention to what Meyers says because since he has control over nothing, his words are the only data point we have. Gore is the exact opposite. What he has to "say" about any of this, ESPECIALLY something as amorphous and action-free as "supporting a bill", is completely irrelevant in the face of how he acts on an issue that he has absolute personal control over.

At all times, the policy is exactly what he wants it to be and if he wanted it any different he could change it at 9:01 A.M. tomorrow with a one sentence text, email, or phone call. That is the only data point that matters.

"Effective immediately, accept the words 'self-defense' as good cause on all current and backlogged CCW applications."
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  #145  
Old 01-14-2018, 9:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MajorCaliber View Post
I guess I'm more cynical than you, or perhaps I did not understand your point.

In my view, we have to pay attention to what Meyers says because since he has control over nothing, his words are the only data point we have. Gore is the exact opposite. What he has to "say" about any of this, ESPECIALLY something as amorphous and action-free as "supporting a bill", is completely irrelevant in the face of how he acts on an issue that he has absolute personal control over.
Leftist big city chiefs and county sheriffs from anti locales around the nation have taken a stand against national reciprocity. Asking Gore about the issue -- since it could flood his county with out-of-state CCWers -- is relevant to his job and his candidacy. Same with Myers.

But both of these candidates have weaknesses: Gore is a Repub who is anti Shall Issue. Myers is a Dem who is pro-Shall Issue. Gunnies question if Gore is really going to liberalize CCWs and keep it that way if he wins. They also question Myers if he'll keep his promise if he wins. Their position on this related issue is another "data point" to figure out if they are sincere.

Will Gore publicly say he opposes national reciprocity and stands with Bloomberg and Feinstein against the NRA? Like I said, that will tank his support among GOP activists/donors, but I doubt he'll gain any Dems from Myer's camp.

Will Myers publicly say he is for national reciprocity and stands with the NRA against Feinstein and Bloomberg? That will hurt him among Dem activists/donors but may help him strip away supporters/donors from Gore (assuming Gore comes out against nat'l recip).

If Gore says he's for it, the question becomes why he's in favor of out-of-staters carrying w/o Good Cause (i.e., from Shall Issue states), when he requires burdensome Good Cause for San Diego residents? (versus OC, also ~3M, also lots of urban and suburban areas, yet they've got >12,000 CCWs issued)

If HR 38 become law, local sheriffs and chiefs in CA can't stop us from carrying with non-resident CCW. HR 38 is a more important issue than whether Gore or Myers gets elected, whether whoever wins readily issues CCWs or not!
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  #146  
Old 01-14-2018, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Leftist big city chiefs and county sheriffs from anti locales around the nation have taken a stand against national reciprocity. Asking Gore about the issue -- since it could flood his county with out-of-state CCWers -- is relevant to his job and his candidacy. Same with Myers.
It seem just the opposite to me, since as you say, they wont be able to stop out of state CCW's from carrying. Even if you could determine their actual opinion on the issue, I don't see how that matters since their actions are constrained.

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Gunnies question if Gore is really going to liberalize CCWs and keep it that way if he wins...Their position on this related issue is another "data point" to figure out if they are sincere...If Gore says he's for it, the question becomes why he's in favor of out-of-staters carrying w/o Good Cause (i.e., from Shall Issue states), when he requires burdensome Good Cause for San Diego residents?
This is where I respectfully disagree. I hope you think I have condensed your words fairly. Focusing on Gore here, gunnies should have no question whatsoever about what Gore would do regarding issuing CCW's regardless of what he says. He will not. If he wanted to, he could start tomorrow. The fact that the policy is what it is far outweighs anything Gore may say on any subject at all. What he says is not a data point on whether he is sincere, only his actions are. When you say that the question becomes "why he's in favor..." That implies that you can infer what he thinks from what he says. Given his policy, I think the only conclusion you can draw from what he says is that it represents what he thinks would do him the most good.

I have always maintained that there are three kinds of people where you should never equate what they say with what they think, a politician, a lawyer with a client, and a professional PR person or spokesperson. I think this is a classic example.
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Old 01-15-2018, 7:51 AM
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Sounds like a troll
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  #148  
Old 01-15-2018, 9:36 AM
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Gore is a lying POS. I don't believe anything out of his mouth, only actions count and there arn't any here yet. He will tell us what we want to hear and then do what he wants to do.

Same applies to Myers. Too much of a gamble to sell my vote off to. I will sit this one out as there isn't a viable choice to be made here.
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  #149  
Old 01-15-2018, 9:41 AM
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It seem just the opposite to me, since as you say, they wont be able to stop out of state CCW's from carrying. Even if you could determine their actual opinion on the issue, I don't see how that matters since their actions are constrained.
That's true of everyone except US Senators, right? Then why are governors, AGs, big city mayors and CoPs all taking public stands and making official statements either in support of or opposed to national reciprocity?

Do not confuse a lack of authority with a lack of influence and assume the power to influence is no power.

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Originally Posted by MajorCaliber View Post
This is where I respectfully disagree. I hope you think I have condensed your words fairly. Focusing on Gore here, gunnies should have no question whatsoever about what Gore would do regarding issuing CCW's regardless of what he says. He will not. If he wanted to, he could start tomorrow.
CCW issuance is not binary, black or white, either No Issue or SD = GC. EVERY county issues. The question is how difficult is their GC requirement? That's a matter of degree, not of kind, so it is not a binary question. That's why the CA CCW GC map uses 5 colors, not just black or white.

Gore already has liberalized CCW issuance in the past several months. If you talk with SDCGOPAC they'll tell you that. If you go to the various SD related threads in other forums on CGN, you read posters say that. The question is, by how much? He's publicly said that "self defense" = GC is an "extreme" position that he does not support. So, going by the colors of the CA CCW GC map, he's not taking SD to "dark green." The question is has he taken it to yellow? to light green? That SDCGOPAC can only find out by people with various strengths of GC applying and letting them know if they get approved or denied.

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Originally Posted by MajorCaliber View Post
The fact that the policy is what it is far outweighs anything Gore may say on any subject at all. What he says is not a data point on whether he is sincere, only his actions are.
And his own actions that matter are whether he signs off on a particular GC statement or not. But that is all decided and done in private. That's why SDCGOPAC needs people to apply and share with them info about their GC statement and whether it passed.

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Originally Posted by MajorCaliber View Post
When you say that the question becomes "why he's in favor..." That implies that you can infer what he thinks from what he says. Given his policy, I think the only conclusion you can draw from what he says is that it represents what he thinks would do him the most good.
And that begs the question, doesn't it.

What you don't see is that my question traps him on the horns of a dilemma: either he has to publicly take a stand, in front of a room full of GOP activists/donors, supporting Feinstein and Bloomberg and opposing the NRA or he has to take a stand against Shall Issue CCWs for SD residents but for non-CA residents with SI CCW carrying in CA.

If you still don't get it, I guess we'll just agree to disagree.
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  #150  
Old 01-15-2018, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
Gore is a lying POS. I don't believe anything out of his mouth, only actions count and there arn't any here yet.
From 10/28/17:
Quote:
Originally Posted by baranski View Post
From San Diego County Gun Owners PAC

Throw out everything you think you know about CCWs and San Diego. We are receiving feedback that SDCGO's efforts to highlight Gore's block of your right to bear arms is working. His internal standards have been loosened and the amount of paperwork required has been lessened. We think.

So what does this mean? Well, we aren't sure because Sheriff Gore's policy is poorly written, subjective, and purposely vague.

We are asking you to help us figure it out and maybe get your CCW in the process.

Here's how...
And since then, CGN is getting posts of people being issued!

From 12/12/17:
Quote:
Originally Posted by grantar2 View Post
Del Mar Gun Show this past weekend. Despite a very small and slow show, mostly due to conflict with the Reno show, and the local fires, we did have a number of people stop by to talk to us that had received their permit approval from the San Diego Sheriff's office. None had the usual circumstances, lawyer, restraining order.

I can't say for certain, but I heard repeatedly from these and the San Diego gun advocacy group that they are seeing movement. Not sure yet why the change of heart. We will be following up with the San Diego Sheriff's office, but would like to see if anyone here in queue has had positive response.
From 12/13/17:
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Originally Posted by kiettyyyy View Post
I went in 11/2 and received my approval letter 12/8 (dated 12/6). I'm a business owner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiettyyyy View Post
Listed my business activities that put me at additional risk. The process was very pleasant. I think I spent a total of 30 minutes in the office on the initial interview. Since I had all the required documents on the first interview, the clerk was able to handle my "second interview" the same day.
From 12/25/17:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flintlock Tom View Post
My son and daughter-in-law are visiting for Christmas. She (DiL) mentioned that her sister works in the SD Sheriff's office in the department that processes CCW applications. She (DiL) claims that her sister says that requirements are "much" looser now and permits are easier to get.
From 1/5/18:

Michael Schwartz, the head of the SDCGOPAC, says things have improved, but they don't know by how much (see 35 sec to 1:10 and Jena at 6:45 to 7:30)


From 1/8/18:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nippondaito View Post
Gore has been feeling the pressure and actually started issuing. Two of my friends have gotten theirs lately, but one is a women with past Domestic Violence against her and she works late and makes killer money. The other is female realtor but I hear others are starting to get them issued. Also, a couple of cities like Vista and El Cajon are talking about issuing through their city and going around the Sheriff.
From 1/13/18:
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcusrn View Post
I applied today and paid the $. I must say it was the nicest incounter in the 24 yrs and 7 applications that I have dealt with them. I was especially happy when the girl said that " you may not hear till the end of February as so many people are applying and it's taking time for the prints to clear". She did indicate that it is getting easier. The old manager Blanca Pelowitz has recently retired and new manager Donna Burns gets praise from staff and trainers. Time will tell.
Section II question 5 of form asked "Have you been or are you a part of any law suit". I wrote that I have been co plaintiff in "Peruta vs SD Sheriff" from circa 2010 until 2016 ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
Same applies to Myers. Too much of a gamble to sell my vote off to. I will sit this one out as there isn't a viable choice to be made here.
For someone who doesn't plan to vote, you sure do spend a lot of time on these threads.....
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  #151  
Old 01-15-2018, 7:22 PM
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I will sit this one out as there isn't a viable choice to be made here.

At least apply for your permit, what do you have to lose?
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  #152  
Old 01-15-2018, 8:34 PM
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At least apply for your permit, what do you have to lose?
That reminds me: something I noticed but did not mention in my previous post full of quotes from others who said they've recently gotten issued or know people who did, is NO ONE said they've been recently denied or that they recently had a bad experience with staff in the CCW unit, that they were discouraged rather than encouraged to apply.

So there has been a major shift by Sheriff Gore and it is showing in both how they treat applicants (friendly, inviting vs unfriendly, discouraging), and in SD Co people actually getting CCW issued. How much has Gore liberalized acceptable GC? We know from his own statements that SD = GC is highly unlikely to be accepted.

How about "avid shooter who regularly goes to the range with several handguns and long guns and hundreds of rounds of ammunition and occasionally enters local matches" and here's receipts of entry fees and membership dues, photos of participation and other evidence supporting it? If he accepts that, SD should be light green on the CA CCW GC map.

Frankly, IMO, we can at a minimum say SD Co is now "yellow" (no longer "light red") on the map. As more CGNers apply and get issued or denied and post about their GC and experience, that will give us a better idea of Gore's actual policy and practices.
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  #153  
Old 01-16-2018, 9:34 AM
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At least apply for your permit, what do you have to lose?
Application fees and time wasted. I'm not of the protected class. No big $ business, no ex wives chasing me down, not a famous guy. Chances would be between slim and none.

"A man's got to know his limitations" ~ Dirty Harry
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  #154  
Old 01-16-2018, 4:44 PM
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At least apply for your permit, what do you have to lose?
You do raise a good question. How much will one have to pay to apply and get denied? IIRC, by law the IA can no longer require you to pay for training before making a decision on your GC, so that's at least $100 saved. What about paying for the Livescan background check? What's the most you can be on the hook for if you're denied?

SDCGOPAC should add that information to their CCW application instructional video.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
Application fees and time wasted. I'm not of the protected class. No big $ business, no ex wives chasing me down, not a famous guy. Chances would be between slim and none.

"A man's got to know his limitations" ~ Dirty Harry
Jimi Jah doesn't plan to vote and won't apply.

It really makes me wonder why he spends so much time and effort making posts re. San Diego Co sheriff and CCWs. It's ... strange.

Maybe it's just me, but if I was that short on money, I'd work for Uber or Lyft for a few weeks, save up $1,000 and apply for a CCW. That way, in case I got approved, I'd have plenty of money to pay for Livescan and training and holsters and practice ammo. But that's just me: I want a CA CCW!
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  #155  
Old 01-17-2018, 9:35 AM
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Maybe move down to San Diego County from the gay bay and apply yourself? Would a rejection convince you? Why so much interest in a county so far away and not one you live in?

Come on down, we need more gun friendly folks here. Then you can apply yourself and lobby Gore personally.
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Old 01-17-2018, 11:08 AM
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Maybe move down to San Diego County from ...
I have no intention of moving somewhere that I have to "Press 2 for English" and will be annexed by Mexico if Trump doesn't keep his promises.

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Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
Why so much interest in a county so far away and not one you live in?
Like my list of, currently, >225 incidents of CCWers saving lives linked in my sig line, fighting for the RKBA by Good Guys against Bad Guys is both emotionally fulfilling and entertaining. (Yes, I look forward to the reboot of Death Wish with Bruce Willis. )
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  #157  
Old 01-17-2018, 9:26 PM
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If the quotes and video on Paladin's post on 1-15-18 are correct then maybe we are heading in the right direction.

I am a CRPA member and receive emails about how they are out to defeat the Los Angeles County Sheriff Jim McDonnell in the next election but not much about Sheriff Gore.

I wonder why?
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  #158  
Old 01-17-2018, 9:58 PM
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I am a CRPA member and receive emails
Do you regularly attend a Members Council? If so, have you heard them talk/email about any sheriffs races and CCWs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PTLaro View Post
about how they are out to defeat the Los Angeles County Sheriff Jim McDonnell in the next election
Did they say who they support to replace him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PTLaro View Post
but not much about Sheriff Gore.

I wonder why?
Maybe they weren't involved in this reform effort? SD county has 2 NRA Members Councils. Does anyone know if either/both of them were also involved in this San Diego county CCW effort?
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Old 01-17-2018, 11:48 PM
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That's true of everyone except US Senators, right? Then why are governors, AGs, big city mayors and CoPs all taking public stands and making official statements either in support of or opposed to national reciprocity?

Do not confuse a lack of authority with a lack of influence and assume the power to influence is no power.

CCW issuance is not binary, black or white, either No Issue or SD = GC. EVERY county issues. The question is how difficult is their GC requirement? That's a matter of degree, not of kind, so it is not a binary question. That's why the CA CCW GC map uses 5 colors, not just black or white.

Gore already has liberalized CCW issuance in the past several months. If you talk with SDCGOPAC they'll tell you that. If you go to the various SD related threads in other forums on CGN, you read posters say that. The question is, by how much? He's publicly said that "self defense" = GC is an "extreme" position that he does not support. So, going by the colors of the CA CCW GC map, he's not taking SD to "dark green." The question is has he taken it to yellow? to light green? That SDCGOPAC can only find out by people with various strengths of GC applying and letting them know if they get approved or denied.

And his own actions that matter are whether he signs off on a particular GC statement or not. But that is all decided and done in private. That's why SDCGOPAC needs people to apply and share with them info about their GC statement and whether it passed.

And that begs the question, doesn't it.

What you don't see is that my question traps him on the horns of a dilemma: either he has to publicly take a stand, in front of a room full of GOP activists/donors, supporting Feinstein and Bloomberg and opposing the NRA or he has to take a stand against Shall Issue CCWs for SD residents but for non-CA residents with SI CCW carrying in CA.

If you still don't get it, I guess we'll just agree to disagree.
I know this is from a few days ago. Let me disagree with two minor points first. While I grant you that, in theory, Gore's support of national reciprocity might influence the actions of somebody somewhere, as a practical matter, I can't believe that that there is ANYTHING he could say that would cause the two relevant people--Feinstein, and Harris, to vote for the bill.

You say your question traps him on the horns of a dilemma, suggesting either answer to the question presents a problem for him. Since his actual non-issuance policy (at least until recently), which should be far more relevant than statements about a national bill, have not represented a sufficient problem for him to get re-elected in the past, I can't imagine that it would now by simply saying he is against the bill. The answer that he is for it and the resulting inconsistency might have caused a problem for a candidate in the past, I think we are far past the point where that matters any more. Politicians from both parties abandon their principles and engage in blatant hypocrisy any time they think there is an advantage to them or their party. This no longer serves to restrain anyone's behavior as it might have in the past. There is no longer any shame in such hypocrisy.

Now I'm going to agree with you on the more important point. You were right, I was looking at it as a binary choice, that no SD=GC means effectively non-issue and this is not fair. Perhaps there has been a change. Perhaps doing this without any announced clear change in policy is his way of having his cake and eating it too. To the gunnies he can say he is issuing more and to the antis he can say that his written policy has not changed. That may be the reason the policy is still so vaguely worded. Of course, this also gives him the freedom to stop issuing right after the election without any public reversal. I'd love to know what the real reason is. Is it just a political calculation, or has he actually changed his mind, and if so, based on what? Of course his position that SD=GC is an extreme position is absurd. That is the only reasonable reading of Heller IMHO, but calling a position "extreme" is the one of the new liberal techniques to avoid having to deal with it logically or factually.

So I'm going to follow your advice, I'm going to research the new situation here in San Diego, and I just might end up agreeing with you that now is indeed the time to apply.
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  #160  
Old 01-18-2018, 9:22 AM
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I have no intention of moving somewhere that I have to "Press 2 for English" and will be annexed by Mexico if Trump doesn't keep his promises.
You already live in a "press 2 for English" county. That's why the New California movement has your county in the blue with SD county in the red.
Why not apply in your county or move if you want a CCW permit so badly?
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