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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 03-11-2010, 11:32 PM
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Default Remington 700 Varmint .308 as beginner rifle?

If I want a basic intro rifle, what about the Remington 700 Varmint in .308 caliber? Never shot a bolt action gun before and want to take a precision rifle class in the next few months. (The caliber I believe is the most reasonably priced).

ALSO: would the Primary Arms 4.5-14X Iluminated Mil Dot Scope be a good entry level scope for my beginner needs?

Thanks for any guidance you may have!
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  #2  
Old 03-12-2010, 1:33 AM
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check out the remington 700 SPS tactical i think its a more accurate rifle... i just did a few hours of searching online....

here is the Tactical...... http://www.snipercentral.com/spstactical.htm

and here is the Varmint... http://www.snipercentral.com/remspsv.htm
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  #3  
Old 03-12-2010, 6:27 AM
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I have a sps varmint and I would highly recomend it. I've shot both he varmint and tactical side by side and the tactical has more muzzle flip. I'm a newb too, but I think it's a great gun to start on.
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Old 03-12-2010, 8:42 AM
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Either will be a great rifle to start with. Just do a search on here and you'll find countless threads on the subject. Save up for a better scope if you can. If you spend $120 on a scope, your going to get $100 performance out of it. If your looking for a good, cheap entry scope to make sure you like the rifle setup, look at a bushnell 3500 series. If you can afford it, spend more money on your scope than your rifle. If you cant see, you can't hit!
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  #5  
Old 03-12-2010, 9:55 AM
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That was my first bolt action rifle. I love it and between my handgun, AR, or Bolt action, I have he most fun with the SPS Varmint. I put a Vortex Optics Diamondback 4-12x40mm scope on it, spending $189 on it. I can see every target clearly at my local range, 300 yrds out.
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Old 03-12-2010, 5:59 PM
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Thanks for the input. Placed my deposit today! Already bought 600 rounds of ammo too! Thanks again!
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  #7  
Old 03-12-2010, 6:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skkeeter View Post
Either will be a great rifle to start with. Just do a search on here and you'll find countless threads on the subject. Save up for a better scope if you can. If you spend $120 on a scope, your going to get $100 performance out of it. If your looking for a good, cheap entry scope to make sure you like the rifle setup, look at a bushnell 3500 series. If you can afford it, spend more money on your scope than your rifle. If you cant see, you can't hit!
+1 3500 is cool but I like the Nikon Buckmaster better
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  #8  
Old 03-12-2010, 6:33 PM
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Jump down to the percision shooters club sub-forum, they break everything down, which rifle/cal, which scope and how to use it propperly, as well as a ton of usefull tips and tricks. But to give you the short answer the remington 700 in .308 is the ONLY option to beginners. It has a huge after market support and the most quality ammo options. Once you burn the barrel out and learn what you are doing then it's suggested you start looking into some serious rifles/cal. Besides if you realize you hate long range shooting selling a remington 700 in .308 is like trying to sell crack, it sells it's self.
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  #9  
Old 03-12-2010, 6:53 PM
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Can't go wrong with either IMO. Another vote for the Bushnell 3200. If you can afford $300 the Super Sniper is another quality optic for for its price.
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  #10  
Old 03-12-2010, 7:31 PM
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Remington 700 SPS Varmint was my first gun and I couldn't be happier with it. There is also tons of aftermarket products out there, you certainly wont be disappointed. 308 is a great cartridge to start out with as well.

Check out this thread and you'll learn a lot about getting into precision bolt gun shooting and a lot about setting up your rifle in a way that balances the quality of all the parts. A general rule of thumb is to try to spend at least as much money on your scope as you did on the rest of your rifle. Also, when your considering your scope, think about it as a whole package including rings and base. Your scope isn't going to hold zero in cheap junky rings, so go for a decent picatinny one piece base and some nice rings.

Its a money trap, but you'll have more fun than you can possibly imagine.
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  #11  
Old 03-12-2010, 8:09 PM
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varmint>tactical

You'll want the length (velocity) for reaching out to 1000m if you're serious about long range precision shooting.

The stock will need to be upgraded. If you're tight on cash, find a take-off from a 700P or similar (HS Precision stock).
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  #12  
Old 03-12-2010, 8:22 PM
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Just an alternative thought based on my shooting experience..

If I were a true beginner (I don't know how much experience you have) I would start with a bolt action in .243 winchester and blast away. (Actually I would start with a .22 but I think you want a larger caliber)

The .308 is a great round but after a box of ammo at the range through a bolt action your shoulder will be telling you "no mas!" and you are gonna develop a serious flinch.

Then your enthusiam level is gonna drop a bunch. I think starting with a small caliber with negligible recoild is the best way to develop all your marksmanship skills. Once you are money with the .243 (or .22) then move up. You can always pass the smaller caliber down to your kids when you get older and you would be surprised how nice it is to shoot a low recoil gun after getting beat up for a few hours.

I shot a whole box of .270 WSM last weekend up at Angeles and by the end it was a labor of love...

Just a thought, have fun.

PS - the problem with many "varmint" or "tactical" mass marketed bolt actions is they are too light. .308 in a 6-7 pound rifle is not fun. Military can shoot .308 bolt action all day in a M40A3 because is weights 14.5 pounds. Yeah, its a heavy son of a *****. But it knocks the recoild down to .243 levels. Peace

Last edited by Retzius; 03-12-2010 at 8:26 PM.. Reason: forgot something
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  #13  
Old 03-12-2010, 9:54 PM
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For the scope check out the fixed 10x Bushnell. You can pick up one on ebay in the low $200 range. Seeing the target can be done through the little 4x scope on my air rifle. But holding up to recoil and the confidence in the turrets returning to zero and back are gonna be key.
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  #14  
Old 03-12-2010, 11:13 PM
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Thanks to this thread, I'm looking into the 700 Tactical, I like the shorter 20" barrel.
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  #15  
Old 03-13-2010, 12:15 AM
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zeiss conquest scopes are excellent at fair price
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  #16  
Old 03-13-2010, 1:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRpink View Post
Thanks to this thread, I'm looking into the 700 Tactical, I like the shorter 20" barrel.
some people say that 20" barrel is to short for longer range but you can always shoot lighter bullets like the 150 or the 155 to maintain some good 1000 yard velocity. plus i heard from a few people that the 150/155 go a little flater than the 175 and are the new thing for shooting 1000 yards.
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Old 03-13-2010, 3:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retzius View Post
Just an alternative thought based on my shooting experience..

If I were a true beginner (I don't know how much experience you have) I would start with a bolt action in .243 winchester and blast away. (Actually I would start with a .22 but I think you want a larger caliber)
.243win barrel life is less than half (actually more like 1/3) the accurate life of a 308win. assuming the OP could learn to shoot in, say 2000 rds (i'm getting close to that number and still leave the 1k yd line scratching my head sometimes) it would be time to rebarrel the rifle.... low recoil is nice, but not at that price for me....
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  #18  
Old 03-13-2010, 3:47 AM
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+1 for the sps tactical

you can also consider the savage 10FP. the issue with savages is depending on year, stock bolt patterns (measurements) are different if you wanted to upgrade the stock later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by winxp_man View Post
check out the remington 700 SPS tactical i think its a more accurate rifle... i just did a few hours of searching online....

here is the Tactical...... http://www.snipercentral.com/spstactical.htm

and here is the Varmint... http://www.snipercentral.com/remspsv.htm
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  #19  
Old 03-13-2010, 3:51 AM
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Bolt action .308, my shoulder hurts just thinking about it.
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Old 03-13-2010, 4:36 AM
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Originally Posted by 77bawls View Post
Bolt action .308, my shoulder hurts just thinking about it.
You guys are weak sauce
I just ran 40 rounds down the pipe of my .308 Varmint and didn't even notice the recoil. I actually thought it was a a soft kicker. YMMV
The SPS Varmint has to weigh in at 10-15 pounds
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Old 03-13-2010, 10:21 AM
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I've never shot a .308 but I did shoot a pump action 30-06 and that thing kicked like a mofo. From what I understand is the recoil is comparable.
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Old 03-13-2010, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by 77bawls View Post
I've never shot a .308 but I did shoot a pump action 30-06 and that thing kicked like a mofo. From what I understand is the recoil is comparable.
the 30-06 has 12mm more case behind it.
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Old 03-13-2010, 11:07 AM
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It's not as fat tho.
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Old 03-13-2010, 11:12 AM
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shoot the .308 and worry about the pain later

plus its a fun gun to shoot.......
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Old 03-13-2010, 3:50 PM
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It's not as fat tho.
? Are you saying that the 30-06 is not as "fat" or large in diameter as the 308? They are nearly identical just that the 30-06 case is longer allowing more powder
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Old 03-13-2010, 5:35 PM
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The SPS varmint would be a great choice to learn precision/long range riflery. Just be prepared to spend and appropriate amount for glass. The lowest I'd go would be a Bushnell 3200 10x or a Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14 mildot. And be prepared to spend on match ammo, or learn to reload. You can't expect much from blasting fodder.
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Old 03-13-2010, 5:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pontiacpratt View Post
You guys are weak sauce
I just ran 40 rounds down the pipe of my .308 Varmint and didn't even notice the recoil. I actually thought it was a a soft kicker. YMMV
The SPS Varmint has to weigh in at 10-15 pounds
I concur. I don't understand the guys complaining about recoil. With the proper shooting technique, recoil is not an issue with a bolt action .308, especially with one as heavy as the SPS Varmint. I have an SPS Varmint in .308 and shoot 100 rounds when I go to the range and my shoulder is perfectly fine afterward. Those who have shore shoulders after shooting one are doing something wrong. In my opinion, recoil is not an issue until you get to the Magnum cartridges.
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Old 03-13-2010, 5:44 PM
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no such thing as a beginner rifle.....if you want a rifle that isn't going to be too complicated for a beginner to use, that's one thing. But even the simplest rifle deserves the respect of the most complicated one....that being said, you can't go wrong with a Remy 700. SPS or Varmint models are both good. I'm saving for a LTR (just a slight upgrade from the SPS tactical)
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  #29  
Old 03-13-2010, 9:28 PM
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I think some people are kind of missing the point..

Beginner rifle and long range marksmanship dont even belong in the same sentence.

If you cant put 3 rounds in a quarter at a 100 yards, then you cant put three rounds in a quarter at 300 yards etc.

In all my years of hunting everywhere from the northeast to the southwest I have never taken an animal at further than 200 yards and 95% were easily within 100 yards.

In all my years in the military I never took a shot further than 300 yards and 95% were within 50 yards.

I know many peeps have sniper fantasies but its silly and unrealistic.

If you are a true beginner get a .22 and start at 50 yards. Learn to shoot from standing, prone, offhand, and kneeling position. Don't just sit at a shaded bench with your Diet Pepsi shooting a metal plate at 400 yards and pretending you are learning anything. Go out to the desert and learn to run and gun with your heart rate up.

When you have mastered the .22 (which you wont any time soon) go and get a .223 or .308.

The marksmanship skills you will have learned at a smaller caliber will pay enormous dividends.
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Old 03-13-2010, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retzius View Post
I think some people are kind of missing the point..

Beginner rifle and long range marksmanship dont even belong in the same sentence.

If you cant put 3 rounds in a quarter at a 100 yards, then you cant put three rounds in a quarter at 300 yards etc.

In all my years of hunting everywhere from the northeast to the southwest I have never taken an animal at further than 200 yards and 95% were easily within 100 yards.

In all my years in the military I never took a shot further than 300 yards and 95% were within 50 yards.

I know many peeps have sniper fantasies but its silly and unrealistic.

If you are a true beginner get a .22 and start at 50 yards. Learn to shoot from standing, prone, offhand, and kneeling position. Don't just sit at a shaded bench with your Diet Pepsi shooting a metal plate at 400 yards and pretending you are learning anything. Go out to the desert and learn to run and gun with your heart rate up.

When you have mastered the .22 (which you wont any time soon) go and get a .223 or .308.

The marksmanship skills you will have learned at a smaller caliber will pay enormous dividends.
nicely said +1 to all of this
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Old 03-17-2010, 2:30 PM
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get the tactical, and install a muzzle break. better rifle of the bunch
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  #32  
Old 03-17-2010, 4:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retzius View Post
I think some people are kind of missing the point..

Beginner rifle and long range marksmanship dont even belong in the same sentence.

If you cant put 3 rounds in a quarter at a 100 yards, then you cant put three rounds in a quarter at 300 yards etc.

In all my years of hunting everywhere from the northeast to the southwest I have never taken an animal at further than 200 yards and 95% were easily within 100 yards.

In all my years in the military I never took a shot further than 300 yards and 95% were within 50 yards.

I know many peeps have sniper fantasies but its silly and unrealistic.

If you are a true beginner get a .22 and start at 50 yards. Learn to shoot from standing, prone, offhand, and kneeling position. Don't just sit at a shaded bench with your Diet Pepsi shooting a metal plate at 400 yards and pretending you are learning anything. Go out to the desert and learn to run and gun with your heart rate up.

When you have mastered the .22 (which you wont any time soon) go and get a .223 or .308.

The marksmanship skills you will have learned at a smaller caliber will pay enormous dividends.
While I understand where you are coming from why learn to run and gun when the majority of shooting with a bolt action .308 target rifle will be from a bench with a Pepsi? If you are hunting I hope you aren't trying to take a running shot on a deer so why not learn to shoot from a rest?
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Old 03-17-2010, 7:24 PM
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While I understand where you are coming from why learn to run and gun when the majority of shooting with a bolt action .308 target rifle will be from a bench with a Pepsi? If you are hunting I hope you aren't trying to take a running shot on a deer so why not learn to shoot from a rest?
maybe cuz to shoot from a bench is being a mall ninja
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Old 03-17-2010, 7:39 PM
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maybe cuz to shoot from a bench is being a mall ninja
I must be on the wrong forum because I don't do any black ops type stuff.
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Old 03-17-2010, 8:13 PM
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There are things that can be learned for run and gunning that are applicable to precision shooting and there are things from precision shooting that can be taken into run and gunning.

On a side note mall ninjas are like puberty, everyone goes through that phase, it takes other longer to get there or to stop, but it wont last forever.
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Old 03-17-2010, 9:12 PM
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I must be on the wrong forum because I don't do any black ops type stuff.
Sorry, I was generalizing it seems like any action that isn't hard core training or getting ready for the SHTF you are a mall ninja or an armchair commando. My comment was sarcasm to support your point.
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Old 03-17-2010, 9:52 PM
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Per Randall...

We see these threads all the time "I only have XXXX money to spend on a rifle, what should I get?"
It's always different for each person, but there are some common things you will see throughout the good recommendations.
In precision rifle competition, the most important things are reliability, repeatability and stability.
The rifle needs to work every time.
It needs to work the same every time.
It needs to be stable both mechanically and physically so you can shoot it well.

We often get too hung up on just the actual gun and scope.
We need to step back and think about the whole system.
In order to shoot matches, you need a reliable system.
This includes the support equipment such as the bipod, sling and rear bag.

This thread should be able to give you some recommendations of gear that's a "known good". The actual gear ranges from very inexpensive to very expensive.
ANY of the rifle packages recommended here are capable of winning matches in the hands of a good shooter.
The added quality and extra features of the more expensive gear just make them a little easier to shoot well.

In addition to one of the rifle packages below, you will want to gather up the other equipment that supports it:
First, you need quality ammo. You can't shoot tight groups without it. Match ammo is expensive. Most people choose to reload for several reasons, the most important being that you get to custom tune the ammo to your rifle and secondly that it's considerably cheaper to reload than to shoot factory ammo.
Top quality reloading gear will pay for itself in savings over factory ammo within less than 500 rounds.
Next, you need good records. That means a log book. It can be as simple as a notebook that you write down everything about shooting conditions and bullet performance observed throughout each shooting session. This will allow you to later recall what you saw in the past when you find yourself in similar conditions.
Then you need good tools. My shooting tools include a laser rangefinder, Kestrel handheld weather station and a spotting scope. These allow me to measure the weather conditions, measure the range to target and my spotter to read the mirage and watch my impacts.
Lastly, you need support gear and a way to carry everything. My shooting pack contains things such as ammo, mags, a shooting mat, a spare scope, an extra bipod that's taller than the one normally on my rifle, a hydration bladder with water for the day, a first aid kit, various small tools to make repairs and adjustments to the rifle and scope in the field, elbow/knee pads and a bandana or scarf to protect my neck as well as allow me to shade myself if I am shooting into the sun.

With all the accessories behind us, lets get to the real hardware.
The following Excel document contains a list of known-good equipment with a proven track record:
www.ar15barrels.com/data/builder.xls
The Excel document allows you to choose a rifle and add on a variety of different scopes, mounts and accessories to figure out a total price.
We would like for this excel sheet to be a living document. Many of the prices listed are below the minimum advertised price of the manufacturers so if you can't find the prices shown, ask around the CaPRC subforum and we will point you to the good-guy price vendors.
Likewise, if you find better prices than the sources listed, post them here and I will try to keep the excel sheet updated.

There are obviously other companies making good gear as well, but we have chosen these specific pieces for their value, quality of construction and most importantly for their consistency of quality. We have specifically avoided items that don't meet the general needs of precision rifle competition. For this reason, you won't see scopes with un-reasonably small internal elevation travel or 1/8moa clicks as these are not desireable in our sport. We have also chosen items based on their upgradeability. For this reason we have settled on the Remington 700 platform as the mainstay of the packages. Other platforms may be fully capable of the accuracy, but none share the aftermarket support so we can not recommend them. If you don't see something listed here, it's because it did not stick-out to us as a particularly valuable or desireable enough to make the list.
There are obviously lots of other quality gear that we could list here, but in many cases, we chose the most commonly available brands, simply because they would be easier to actually buy when you want them.

For those without Excel, here is a sample of some recommended configurations, ranging from very inexpensive to very expensive.

Remington 700 sps varmint
bushnell 321040M 10x
Egw aluminum base
Burris 1" aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$1,043

Remington 700P
bushnell 321040M 10x
Egw aluminum base
Burris 1" aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$1,293

Remington 700 5r
bushnell 321040M 10x
Egw aluminum base
Burris 1" aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$1,643

Remington 700 sps varmint
Sightron S2 4-16x42
Egw aluminum base
Burris 1" aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$1,253

Remington 700P
Sightron S2 4-16x42
Egw aluminum base
Burris 1" aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$1,503

Remington 700 5r
Sightron S2 4-16x42
Egw aluminum base
Burris 1" aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$1,853

Remington 700P
bushnell 652164T 2.5-16
Seekins aluminum base
TPS 30mm aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$1,941

Remington 700 5r
bushnell 652164T 2.5-16
Seekins aluminum base
TPS 30mm aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$2,291

Remington 700 sps varmint
AICS
bushnell 652164T 2.5-16
Seekins aluminum base
TPS 30mm aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$2,491

Remington 700 5r
nightforce 5-15 NP-R1
Seekins aluminum base
Seekins 30mm aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$3,063

Remington 700 5r
AICS
bushnell 652164T 2.5-16
Seekins aluminum base
TPS 30mm aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$3,091

Remington 700 sps varmint
AICS
nightforce 5-15 NP-R1
Seekins aluminum base
Seekins 30mm aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$3,263

Remington 700 sps varmint
McMillan A5
Badger M5
nightforce 5-15 NP-R1
Seekins aluminum base
Seekins 30mm aluminum rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$3,513

Remington 700 5r
McMillan A5
Badger M5
premiere heritage
Seekins aluminum base
Badger 34mm steel rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$4,683

Gap base custom rifle
Badger M5
premiere heritage
Badger steel base
Badger 34mm steel rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Sling
$5,583

Gap crusader
schmidt & bender
Badger steel base
Badger 34mm steel rings
Harris S-BRM bipod
KMW Pod-Loc
Triad rear bag
Tab sling
$7,068

These packages were selected in a manner to attempt to balance the quality of the rifle with the quality of the optics at a specific price level. Therefore, you will see fancier scopes sitting in more expensive mounts/rings on more expensive stocks. For the same reason, you won't see the most expensive scopes used on the lower cost packages as you should budget your money in such a way as to raise the total packages quality, not just a single item within the package.
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  #38  
Old 03-18-2010, 6:24 AM
sonnyt650 sonnyt650 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidRSA View Post
basic intro rifle
I assume you have the evil black gun covered? AR ownership is dead simple with Chevy-like availability for parts and lots of sources for maintenance info. Just about everything that can be maintained is assembled via pins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidRSA View Post
Remington 700 Varmint in .308 caliber
I really like mine, but I don't know how to disassemble and clean out the bolt and firing pin assembly, and I don't even know if I have to . On the other hand AFAIK there is zero troubleshooting with loading failures which plagued my AR early on.

As for .308, for me reloading component (bullet/powder/primer) costs alone are around $.35/round versus .223 at $.20/round. If you don't reload you're looking at maybe twice the cost for a quality .308 versus .223. The Varmint rifles themselves cost the same but after purchase they are fed differently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidRSA View Post
precision rifle class
If you've never owned a bolt-action or an incredibly accurate AR, I'd say walk before you run. I just recently started the reloading thing, and found out that different bullet weights have the biggest impact on my AR's grouping. I know I won't be trickling up to the number of grains any time, and I won't buy the $400 RCBS automatic powder dispenser preparing for that day.
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  #39  
Old 03-18-2010, 7:51 AM
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Bhobbs Bhobbs is offline
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Location: Chino CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pontiacpratt View Post
Sorry, I was generalizing it seems like any action that isn't hard core training or getting ready for the SHTF you are a mall ninja or an armchair commando. My comment was sarcasm to support your point.
I have seen guys at the range with their tacticool ARs, tacticool vests and accessories that couldn't hit the ground if they fell off a chair. I spend most of my time shooting 300 yards with my WW2 rifles.
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  #40  
Old 03-18-2010, 1:19 PM
DavidRSA DavidRSA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnyt650 View Post
I assume you have the evil black gun covered? AR ownership is dead simple with Chevy-like availability for parts and lots of sources for maintenance info. Just about everything that can be maintained is assembled via pins.
Yes got the AR side covered! I love it! Just want to try out some longer range precision shoooting!

Last edited by DavidRSA; 03-18-2010 at 2:51 PM..
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