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  #1  
Old 09-15-2016, 6:29 PM
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Exclamation PLEASE READ -- students with Smith & Wesson MP15-22 rifles

(15th September, 2016) As directed by our national office, effective immediately, Project Appleseed will not be allowing S&W MP15-22 rifles on the line at any of its events until further notice. This follows an unusual number of out-of-battery discharge incidents at our events involving this model.

We cannot be certain of the actual cause and we are in close contact with the manufacturer to investigate this issue. However, while we wait for guidance from the manufacturer, we would be remiss in not taking preventative action, as safety of our students and instructors and their families is paramount.

If this poses a problem for any of our students, please contact us. We can usually arrange a loaner rifle, free of charge. If this is unacceptable or impossible, we will be glad to transfer or refund your registration.

We will keep you updated on this issue as it develops. Please feel free to contact us for clarification.

ETA: Loaners are no longer available effective 2017 due to new California laws. Bring spares if you have 'em. Luckily, .22 rifles are cheap!
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Last edited by as_rocketman; 09-05-2017 at 12:49 AM.. Reason: As marked
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  #2  
Old 09-15-2016, 9:30 PM
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Wow. I was just about to buy this as a 22lr plinking rifle. I guess it's to be avoided?
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  #3  
Old 09-15-2016, 9:42 PM
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Wouldn't go that far. This could turn out to be nothing, or at worst, there could be a fix in the future. We just don't know yet.
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  #4  
Old 09-15-2016, 9:46 PM
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hmm, What kinda of numbers are we talking about, For out of battery discharge with this rifle?
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  #5  
Old 09-15-2016, 9:52 PM
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I don't have the statistics, but there have been several, indeed the majority of OOB incidents in recent months. This is a popular rifle on our lines, though, so it could turn out to be coincidence. We'll have to see what S&W can find out.
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  #6  
Old 09-15-2016, 9:54 PM
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Popular or not, Sounds like a problem. Thank's.
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Old 09-16-2016, 10:36 AM
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Is there a "correctative action" also? Then you must mean "preventive action". That pesky extra "a"!

Dictated to/typed by my trained monkey.
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  #8  
Old 09-16-2016, 7:37 PM
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While less popular, "Preventative" is also accepted in both historical and current usage. See here if you're sceptical.

I suspect that I find it more personally euphonic due to my training in the classics, but I never thought about it before.
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  #9  
Old 09-16-2016, 8:59 PM
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The MP-15 22 had a recall on it a few years ago with an issue that caused an out of battery
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Old 09-16-2016, 9:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennys dad View Post
The MP-15 22 had a recall on it a few years ago with an issue that caused an out of battery
Any chance you have a link to the recall notice?

I wan't able to find anything off an quick google search that identified serial numbers.

FTR: I've had a great experience with my mp15-22, but if there's a recall I missed (had mine for a 5+ years now?)I would like to get it prophylactically fixed.
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  #11  
Old 09-16-2016, 9:31 PM
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Thanks for sharing. We've seen quite a few malfunctions with these rifles but never seen an oob.
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Old 09-18-2016, 9:36 PM
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http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-w...hread-fte.html
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Old 11-06-2016, 3:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by as_rocketman View Post
(15th September, 2016) As directed by our national office, effective immediately, Project Appleseed will not be allowing S&W MP15-22 rifles on the line at any of its events until further notice. This follows an unusual number of out-of-battery discharge incidents at our events involving this model.
I've had one for years but have avoided shooting it because I had precisely this sort of AD with it once while attempting to clear a jam. It was pointed downrange of course, but boy does that wake you up when a rifle fires when you don't have your finger near the trigger.

Naturally, I was working with a n00b kid at the time, but far from being unhappy I thought it was a great lesson about why we always keep the rifle pointed in a safe direction. No one was hurt.
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Old 11-06-2016, 6:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by as_rocketman View Post
While less popular, "Preventative" is also accepted in both historical and current usage. See here if you're sceptical.

I suspect that I find it more personally euphonic due to my training in the classics, but I never thought about it before.
Just pointing out the disconnect. If there is no "Correctative " in general usage then "Preventative" is incorrect due to the correct spellings being used in conjunction so often in technical publications, MIL-STDs, MIL-STDs and such. Just because some number of editors missed it or let it go doesn't make it less incorrect.

Dictated to/typed by my trained monkey.
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  #15  
Old 08-31-2017, 10:12 PM
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I was wondering if the S&W M&P 15-22 issue was ever resolved or if this particular rifle is still not allowed at Project Appleseed events.
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  #16  
Old 09-01-2017, 7:55 PM
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As far as I know, the ban is still in effect.
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  #17  
Old 09-04-2017, 8:32 PM
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Correct, still unresolved. There's an active thread on the RWVA forum about this. From the way it's going I do not expect it ever to be resolved.

I have no dog in this fight. Personally I haven't experienced an M&P 15-22 failure on my line. However, if I want to keep my accreditation and my insurance, I've got to go with the guidance I get from National. Sorry, guys.
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  #18  
Old 09-04-2017, 11:28 PM
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Thanks for the verification. I appreciate your position on this matter.

It is a pity that there appear to be so many variables that cloud this matter - use of certain brands of ammo, untrackable user rifle mods, possible but unclear design issues, etc.

I hope to attend an AS event in the future but will need to rethink my rifle of choice.
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  #19  
Old 09-04-2017, 11:39 PM
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The real pity is that Appleseed is supposed to be almost completely gear agnostic. For the most part, it is -- I've seen all kinds of rifles on the line, from National Match AR-15's to lever-action .30-30's. And then we get this one oddball exception...

You shouldn't feel like you have to overthink your gear choice. I got my patch using a $99 Marlin 70, "modified" with Tech Sights and an Uncle Mike's M1907-style sling, firing CCI Blazer HV .22 LRN ammo. It's enough.

Knowing what I know now, I'd go straight for an M1 GI sling and never look back, but otherwise, the point stands.
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  #20  
Old 09-04-2017, 11:45 PM
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I've had mine for ever. I got it when they first came out. I've never had a problem with it. Any malfunctions were attributed to ammo.

I've shot thousands of rounds thru it over the years. My grandkids easily have a couple thousand rounds thru theirs without any problems.
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  #21  
Old 09-04-2017, 11:48 PM
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Purchased one recently with updated m-lock handguard so Im assuming it is after the recall. Had few failures to feed where the case would be stuck half way in at an angle but that was it. 600 rounds through already and no other problems.
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  #22  
Old 09-05-2017, 5:33 AM
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Agreed, ive been wanting to attend but i only have a 15-22.. i do understand that safety is #1 - just would like to see a path to resolution =/
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  #23  
Old 09-05-2017, 6:55 AM
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Thanks for the bump. Just checked my 15-22 gen1. I need to tighten the barrel nut. The barrel wiggles 1/4 inch!
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Old 09-05-2017, 2:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by as_rocketman View Post
The real pity is that Appleseed is supposed to be almost completely gear agnostic. For the most part, it is -- I've seen all kinds of rifles on the line, from National Match AR-15's to lever-action .30-30's. And then we get this one oddball exception...

You shouldn't feel like you have to overthink your gear choice. I got my patch using a $99 Marlin 70, "modified" with Tech Sights and an Uncle Mike's M1907-style sling, firing CCI Blazer HV .22 LRN ammo. It's enough.

Knowing what I know now, I'd go straight for an M1 GI sling and never look back, but otherwise, the point stands.

And here I thought bringing/using a S'G' M1 carbine with IP parts might be over kill
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  #25  
Old 09-05-2017, 7:52 PM
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Go right ahead...

I've never made a 210 with my M1 Carbine, though. Best I've got is about 200. Accuracy is just not quite there on Stage IV, although I have cleaned a Redcoat... so if I try enough times...
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  #26  
Old 09-05-2017, 8:12 PM
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Why are loaners no longer possible in CA? I understand it as a new CA law but I wasn't aware of any law where you couldn't let someone shoot your rifle at the range.
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Old 09-05-2017, 9:32 PM
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The CRPA handles the new lending law in a presentation archived here.

Bottom line is if you jump through enough hoops -- owner is present, adult, non-prohibited student and the range have documented permission to do so... then technically you can...

... but since we have no way whatsoever to verify who is or isn't "prohibited" -- and many students may not know themselves -- then it's awfully shaky. Our lawyers think it's a trap and our instructions are to ask people to bring their own rifles.

You should have your own rifle anyway. They're historically cheap right now. Where it hurts is if rifles malfunction, then I can't just let you borrow my LTR to finish out the day. I'm not happy about these laws but I won't let it stop the mission.
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  #28  
Old 10-21-2017, 11:24 PM
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You talking about the old or new model. I was gonna buy 1 tomorrow until I seen this post.

New model - Smith & Wesson M+P15 22 Sport M-LOKô 22LR 16.5" Barrel
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