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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 02-19-2017, 7:46 PM
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Default How can California enforce penalties on those who don't register?

Sorry if this is in the wrong place, redirect as needed.


Something that has been bothering me is that, let's say I have An AR that I legally purchased post 2014. California says I need to register it as an AW, however, I have opted to make it a fixed magazine with the AR maglock.

They know I own an AR, which had a detachable magazine (bullet button) at the time of sale. I've made it compliant, so how can California decide who to throw felonies at? As far as they know (incorrectly) I have an unmodified AR, and I chose not to register it. What's stopping them from throwing a felony at me?
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Old 02-19-2017, 7:54 PM
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What would they charge you with? You're looking for a penal code with a penalty attached to it.
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  #3  
Old 02-19-2017, 7:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipeline1 View Post
Sorry if this is in the wrong place, redirect as needed.


Something that has been bothering me is that, let's say I have An AR that I legally purchased post 2014. California says I need to register it as an AW, however, I have opted to make it a fixed magazine with the AR maglock.

They know I own an AR, which had a detachable magazine (bullet button) at the time of sale. I've made it compliant, so how can California decide who to throw felonies at? As far as they know (incorrectly) I have an unmodified AR, and I chose not to register it. What's stopping them from throwing a felony at me?
The fact that you're not committing a crime.
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Old 02-19-2017, 7:58 PM
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Originally Posted by pipeline1 View Post
Sorry if this is in the wrong place, redirect as needed.





Something that has been bothering me is that, let's say I have An AR that I legally purchased post 2014. California says I need to register it as an AW, however, I have opted to make it a fixed magazine with the AR maglock.



They know I own an AR, which had a detachable magazine (bullet button) at the time of sale. I've made it compliant, so how can California decide who to throw felonies at? As far as they know (incorrectly) I have an unmodified AR, and I chose not to register it. What's stopping them from throwing a felony at me?


Much like when any new law is passed down, the penalty comes when you are *caught* out of compliance. Ownership prior to 2017 is not a crime, and we are given the choice to register OR make featureless.
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Old 02-19-2017, 7:58 PM
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They won't be knocking on doors.

They can't "throw" a felony at you. IF they had the resources, and they don't, to confirm compliance, they would simply send you a letter indicating that records show that you possess a firearm that may not be in compliance, and they will ask for photo-verification of compliance, or evidence that the gun has been removed from the state.

If you decide not to comply, you will be caught if you are:

The subject of a traffic stop when your guns are in your car.
There is a fire at your home.
There is a disturbance call to your home.
A friend of one of your children gets nosey, or one of your children blabs to the wrong anti-2A neighbor/teacher.
If you take it out of state, it could be discovered at an AG checkpoint.

You run the risk of discovery any time you leave home with the gun.
You can never transfer it to another person.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 02-19-2017, 7:59 PM
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It's not how it works. Nobody will come knocking at the door not only because it makes no sense from the law enforcement perspective, but because they would need a search warrant to enter your house.

You are responsible to have either a non-AW (featureless, BB 2.0), or to have an AW that is registered. The trouble happens when you have LEO seeing your rifle, either at a range, or at your home if they are there for unrelated reasons.
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Old 02-19-2017, 8:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
If you decide not to comply, you will be caught if you are:
The OP will comply by installing new maglock.

There is too much confusion about "compliance" vs. "registration." One can comply in several ways without registering.
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  #8  
Old 02-19-2017, 8:09 PM
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The OP will comply by installing new maglock.

There is too much confusion about "compliance" vs. "registration." One can comply in several ways without registering.
Which was the point of my first sentence.

IF they had the resources, they could ask for confirmation of compliance... supposedly like New York has, though I honestly do not believe that those letters that have been posted are legitimate.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 02-19-2017, 8:22 PM
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Originally Posted by pipeline1 View Post
Sorry if this is in the wrong place, redirect as needed.


Something that has been bothering me is that, let's say I have An AR that I legally purchased post 2014. California says I need to register it as an AW, however, I have opted to make it a fixed magazine with the AR maglock.

They know I own an AR, which had a detachable magazine (bullet button) at the time of sale. I've made it compliant, so how can California decide who to throw felonies at? As far as they know (incorrectly) I have an unmodified AR, and I chose not to register it. What's stopping them from throwing a felony at me?


They don't know that you purchased a rifle with a bullet button. Nothing on the dros identifies the rifle as a "bullet buttoned" rifle. You could have bought it as featureless. They have no way to tell.
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Old 02-19-2017, 9:16 PM
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Originally Posted by pipeline1 View Post
Sorry if this is in the wrong place, redirect as needed.


Something that has been bothering me is that, let's say I have An AR that I legally purchased post 2014. California says I need to register it as an AW, however, I have opted to make it a fixed magazine with the AR maglock.

They know I own an AR, which had a detachable magazine (bullet button) at the time of sale. I've made it compliant, so how can California decide who to throw felonies at? As far as they know (incorrectly) I have an unmodified AR, and I chose not to register it. What's stopping them from throwing a felony at me?
PLEASE NO MORE "WHAT IF" THREADS!! IF YOU ARE NOT INFORMED BY NOW, YOU ARE PROBABLY A TROLL! I'M GOING TO LIVE MY LIFE, AND CONTINUE TO SHOOT, NOT WORRIED ABOUT AN LEO AROUND EVERY CORNER.
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  #11  
Old 02-19-2017, 9:22 PM
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Originally Posted by voit View Post
PLEASE NO MORE "WHAT IF" THREADS!! IF YOU ARE NOT INFORMED BY NOW, YOU ARE PROBABLY A TROLL! I'M GOING TO LIVE MY LIFE, AND CONTINUE TO SHOOT, NOT WORRIED ABOUT AN LEO AROUND EVERY CORNER.


BUT WHAT IF I SHOULDER A SIG BRACE?! SHOULD I ASK THE ATF JUST TO BE SURE?
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Old 02-19-2017, 9:34 PM
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WHY IS EVERYBODY YELLING AT EACH OTHER???
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  #13  
Old 02-19-2017, 9:36 PM
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You are welcomed by them not to register.

You'll only be punished for owning it later without modifying IF you happened to be found out.

Again when the withdrawn draft clearly states that even separating upper and lower counts, why do you think they actually want you to register? No they don't. They just want to strip your right to own it unmodified, or to own at all later.
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Old 02-19-2017, 9:37 PM
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Originally Posted by voit View Post
PLEASE NO MORE "WHAT IF" THREADS!! IF YOU ARE NOT INFORMED BY NOW, YOU ARE PROBABLY A TROLL! I'M GOING TO LIVE MY LIFE, AND CONTINUE TO SHOOT, NOT WORRIED ABOUT AN LEO AROUND EVERY CORNER.
Caps lock stuck mate?
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  #15  
Old 02-19-2017, 9:44 PM
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What do you mean "how?"

They can kick down your door, shoot your dog, and terrorize your children. You are on their list. All the state needs is some law or executive order from the governor or mayor to "collect" all AWs.

Now if you have $50k or so, you can hire an effective defense to get you out of jail.
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Old 02-19-2017, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jcwatchdog View Post
They don't know that you purchased a rifle with a bullet button. Nothing on the dros identifies the rifle as a "bullet buttoned" rifle. You could have bought it as featureless. They have no way to tell.
That's a really good point.
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  #17  
Old 02-19-2017, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Cato View Post
What do you mean "how?"

They can kick down your door, shoot your dog, and terrorize your children. You are on their list. All the state needs is some law or executive order from the governor or mayor to "collect" all AWs.

Now if you have $50k or so, you can hire an effective defense to get you out of jail.
Stop spreading alarmist fud-cr*p.

First of all, they'd need to obtain a search warrant signed by a judge with an affidavit supported by probable cause that you have committed a crime justifying a search of your home.

Secondly, not enough manpower to go knocking on doors and do such things.
Impossible. They'd have to use the military. And military probably not be able to manage it due to lack of manpower and resources, and it would probably have to be an emergency.

Third, a confiscation order would be challenged as unconstitutional immediately and they'd seek an injunction against such an unlawful executive order or law.

Even if upheld, the state would have to give reasonable notice for you to remove firearm from the state.

Fourth, they would first rely on surrendering the firearm voluntarily and would probably offer compensation which the state can not afford anyway.

Fifth, I don't want to waste any more time responding to your post, which is ridiculous.

Last edited by ifilef; 02-19-2017 at 10:59 PM..
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Old 02-19-2017, 11:12 PM
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WHY IS EVERYBODY YELLING AT EACH OTHER???






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Old 02-20-2017, 12:45 AM
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WHAT ARE WE YELLING ABOUUUT??
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Old 02-20-2017, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Cato View Post
What do you mean "how?"

They can kick down your door, shoot your dog, and terrorize your children. You are on their list. All the state needs is some law or executive order from the governor or mayor to "collect" all AWs.

Now if you have $50k or so, you can hire an effective defense to get you out of jail.
Hahahhaahhahahahahahahahahahahaahhhahahahhaahahahh ahahahahajahahhahaahahahhahahaahhaahhahahahahahaha

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Old 02-20-2017, 1:43 AM
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As of right now they don't have to break down my door to shoot my dog.
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Old 02-20-2017, 6:27 AM
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As of right now they don't have to break down my door to shoot my dog.
Attachment 583501
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Old 02-20-2017, 8:08 AM
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Of course not. Just P-off at this dang dog peeing all over the house.
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Old 02-20-2017, 8:33 AM
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Originally Posted by voit View Post
PLEASE NO MORE "WHAT IF" THREADS!! IF YOU ARE NOT INFORMED BY NOW, YOU ARE PROBABLY A TROLL! I'M GOING TO LIVE MY LIFE, AND CONTINUE TO SHOOT, NOT WORRIED ABOUT AN LEO AROUND EVERY CORNER.
the "what if's" and "the law says this to comply" are at an ad nauseum level here. We are looking at these laws here at the microscopic level and beyond.

the AG checkpoint is something that is confusing. Because they have no LE powers to search you and most get waved through. Some here think they will be transformed to search you from coming out of state for a shooting class or hunting trip to see if you brought ammo, magazines, or what ever our overlords deem illegal or contraband.
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Old 02-20-2017, 9:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipeline1 View Post
Sorry if this is in the wrong place, redirect as needed.


Something that has been bothering me is that, let's say I have An AR that I legally purchased post 2014. California says I need to register it as an AW, however, I have opted to make it a fixed magazine with the AR maglock.

They know I own an AR, which had a detachable magazine (bullet button) at the time of sale. I've made it compliant, so how can California decide who to throw felonies at? As far as they know (incorrectly) I have an unmodified AR, and I chose not to register it. What's stopping them from throwing a felony at me?
LEO and DA don't have the time or money to investigate compliance with the new registration legistration. Besides complete AW sold at a LGS, just think of the thousands of stripped lowers floating around out there. If you get questioned it will be some unrelated encounter with a LEO. Traffic stop, home burglary, noise complaint, domestic disturbance etc. While your AR is in a featureless configuration, not all LEOs understand all the confusing laws, and they may seize it on a basis of suspicion. He won't spend the time to figure it out. A DA has more time to determine the status of your non-registered AR and most likely not pursue charges if it feature less. The DA needs proof youve committed a felony and they gun is proof you have or have not comitted a felony. You'll have to file paper work and pay your pound on inconvenience to retrieve your AR15.
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  #26  
Old 02-20-2017, 1:25 PM
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Stop spreading alarmist fud-cr*p.
OK, here's some fake news for you:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/inv...robable-cause/


"Probable cause
Pursuing drugs and guns on scant evidence, D.C. police sometimes raid wrong homes — terrifying the innocent."

If a cop "hears" a scream or strange noise from your house, or a neighbor you don't get along with makes a false report, or cops just raid the "wrong" house, you'll have boots on your rugs.

Look at all the guys with standard cap magazines. They were legal, one day, illegal the next. It's not inconceivable that soon LEOs will be out collecting them.
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Old 02-20-2017, 1:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Cato View Post
OK, here's some fake news for you:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/inv...robable-cause/


"Probable cause
Pursuing drugs and guns on scant evidence, D.C. police sometimes raid wrong homes — terrifying the innocent."

If a cop "hears" a scream or strange noise from your house, or a neighbor you don't get along with makes a false report, or cops just raid the "wrong" house, you'll have boots on your rugs.

Look at all the guys with standard cap magazines. They were legal, one day, illegal the next. It's not inconceivable that soon LEOs will be out collecting them.
The law provides remedies for those situations, but people do make errors/mistakes.

Why not just move out to the mountains or desert and become a hermit? No one will likely bother you there.

Best wishes,

Last edited by ifilef; 02-20-2017 at 1:34 PM.. Reason: UNSUBSCRIBED due to paranoid nature of this thread. 1-Star rating.
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Old 02-20-2017, 2:30 PM
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I didn't have an issue with registration. I have had registered AW since 2000. Its been 17 years now and I have not had any issues or notices from the Govt. I take my AW out and shoot them at the local ranges. No one has an issue as long as they see you are a responsible firearms owner. I just keep a copy of my AW registration in the bag with them at all times in case I am asked.
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  #29  
Old 02-20-2017, 3:07 PM
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I didn't have an issue with registration. I have had registered AW since 2000. Its been 17 years now and I have not had any issues or notices from the Govt. I take my AW out and shoot them at the local ranges. No one has an issue as long as they see you are a responsible firearms owner. I just keep a copy of my AW registration in the bag with them at all times in case I am asked.

My issue is more with transportation and willing after I'm gone. Fixed mag seems nice, at least with the speed loader.
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Old 02-20-2017, 3:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ifilef View Post
The law provides remedies for those situations, but people do make errors/mistakes.

Why not just move out to the mountains or desert and become a hermit? No one will likely bother you there.

Best wishes,
The thing is, "sorry" won't make it better. And, I doubt you'll be getting any "sorry, Joe Citizen!" from any cops. I hope you don't have small children, because the raid will leave painful, life long memories.

Now after you get out of jail and explain to your boss that you've been "mistakenly" arrested and had to miss work for a few days, you can file a law suit. That legal remedy will take years, and the law enforcement won't exactly roll over and pay out.

But back to the OP, when confiscation comes, unless you have never been through DROS, it will be a cinch to locate you.


Regarding moving to the mountains or desert, like a lot of guys, I'm working on leaving Kalifornia.

Last edited by Cato; 02-20-2017 at 3:54 PM..
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  #31  
Old 02-20-2017, 3:59 PM
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Caps lock stuck mate?
Nope! Just trying to make a point with all the schizo paranoia going on with Calgun's members. Glad you noticed.
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Old 02-20-2017, 4:01 PM
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My issue is more with transportation and willing after I'm gone. Fixed mag seems nice, at least with the speed loader.
Unless you're on your last legs and expect to die tomorrow, you should be more concerned with the laws they haven't passed but will pass. I expect them to pass a law restricting semi-auto magazine fed long guns at LEAST every other year, and it's even money they will pass a new law EVERY year until they have basically outlawed common possession. The pace has been increasing, the lag between old laws and new laws is smaller. Unless there's a major smackdown, complete gutting and rebuilding of the 9th, etc. then as far as wills, you should be more concerned with keeping up with the likely new yearly onslaught.

I could probably write some legislation right now that would majorly tax the ingenuity even of Franklin armory. I'll PM you if you really like, and while my initial idea probably wouldn't work perfectly, a few rounds of chewing it with someone who knows more than me could probably get it there.
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  #33  
Old 02-20-2017, 5:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Cato View Post
What do you mean "how?"

They can kick down your door, shoot your dog, and terrorize your children. You are on their list. All the state needs is some law or executive order from the governor or mayor to "collect" all AWs.

Now if you have $50k or so, you can hire an effective defense to get you out of jail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cato View Post
OK, here's some fake news for you:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/inv...robable-cause/


"Probable cause
Pursuing drugs and guns on scant evidence, D.C. police sometimes raid wrong homes — terrifying the innocent."

If a cop "hears" a scream or strange noise from your house, or a neighbor you don't get along with makes a false report, or cops just raid the "wrong" house, you'll have boots on your rugs.

Look at all the guys with standard cap magazines. They were legal, one day, illegal the next. It's not inconceivable that soon LEOs will be out collecting them.
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The thing is, "sorry" won't make it better. And, I doubt you'll be getting any "sorry, Joe Citizen!" from any cops. I hope you don't have small children, because the raid will leave painful, life long memories.

Now after you get out of jail and explain to your boss that you've been "mistakenly" arrested and had to miss work for a few days, you can file a law suit. That legal remedy will take years, and the law enforcement won't exactly roll over and pay out.

But back to the OP, when confiscation comes, unless you have never been through DROS, it will be a cinch to locate you.


Regarding moving to the mountains or desert, like a lot of guys, I'm working on leaving Kalifornia.
Great. I already live in constant fear of this very thing happening because I cut the tags off my mattress and pillows. Now I have TWO things to worry about! Thanks California.
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Old 02-20-2017, 5:58 PM
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What do you mean "how?"

They can kick down your door, shoot your dog, and terrorize your children.
That is tyranny and some people would shoot back rather than fight a rigged legal system.

Last edited by bootstrap; 02-20-2017 at 6:04 PM..
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Old 02-20-2017, 6:01 PM
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the AG checkpoint is something that is confusing. Because they have no LE powers to search you and most get waved through. Some here think they will be transformed to search you from coming out of state for a shooting class or hunting trip to see if you brought ammo, magazines, or what ever our overlords deem illegal or contraband.
Explain the CHP officers manning the AG checkpoints and the dozens of vehicles in secondary and tons (literally) of illegal fireworks confiscated every June and December.
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A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 02-20-2017, 6:04 PM
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Explain the CHP officers manning the AG checkpoints and the dozens of vehicles in secondary and tons (literally) of illegal fireworks confiscated every June and December.

Just two words:
Massive Non-compliance.
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Old 02-20-2017, 6:41 PM
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[QUOTE=IVC;19701112]It's not how it works. Nobody will come knocking at the door not only because it makes no sense from the law enforcement perspective, but because they would need a search warrant to enter your house.

http://www.policestateusa.com/2013/m...nition-charge/

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/us...-pull-out.html
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Old 02-20-2017, 6:43 PM
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The law provides remedies for those situations, but people do make errors/mistakes.

Why not just move out to the mountains or desert and become a hermit? No one will likely bother you there.

Best wishes,
Ruby Ridge ring a bell?
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Old 02-20-2017, 7:03 PM
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this is what happens when companies like Supertool USA put out false and misleading statements on the laws.
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Old 02-20-2017, 8:55 PM
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[QUOTE=Holeshotz;19705965]
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Originally Posted by IVC View Post
It's not how it works. Nobody will come knocking at the door not only because it makes no sense from the law enforcement perspective, but because they would need a search warrant to enter your house.

http://www.policestateusa.com/2013/m...nition-charge/

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/us...-pull-out.html
"At around 8:20 p.m. on July 7, 2012, about 30 officers in full tactical gear came banging on the front door of Mark Witaschek, a successful financial adviser, brandishing a search warrant for “firearms and ammunition … gun cleaning equipment, holsters, bullet holders and ammunition receipts,” according to The Washington Times....

or all this trouble, officers seized four items from the home:

one handgun holster
one spent brass casing of .270 caliber ammunition
one box of Knight bullets for muzzle-loading rifles
one live round of 12-gauge shotgun ammunition (which Witaschek claims was an inoperable shell that misfired years earlier, kept as a souvenir)....Even more shocking is the fact that the homeowner could still be put in federal prison, despite the fact that not a single firearm was found in his home."


Now that's DC. Their gun laws are stricter than ours. But as soon as we get another Clinton or Obama in the White House and a few mass shootings by Christians, this could be Anytown, USA.
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