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  #2281  
Old 01-26-2016, 9:19 PM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Pi ssed him off too, he thought she was applying for a county job cuz he didn't know what CCW was.
LOL!
My boss knew I was applying, but I guess he had forgotten (or honestly thought I was BSing him) when I told him that I needed the morning off for the interview with the county.
His response was "Hey, before you leave, can you please print out the job description?"

I printed out the application and instructions and handed it to him.
The look of relief and huge laugh was what finally drilled into my head that he thought I was leaving.

But seriously, your wife's boss?
That's crazy.
Assuming mine went to HR, as my boss never heard word-one about it.
If my wife were to apply, if they sent one to my actual boss, okay... he's met her a few times, but doesn't know her.
If it went to HR? They'd return it saying that they have no idea who she is!
The public works director has met her once, no more than a 15 second introduction.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.

Last edited by Cokebottle; 01-26-2016 at 9:26 PM..
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  #2282  
Old 01-26-2016, 9:22 PM
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I was a street racer back in the day. I got at least 2 fix it tickets every weekend and sometimes 3 moving violations a month. Different era. DMV printouts had holes down the sides.
My printouts came on rolls....

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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.

Last edited by Cokebottle; 01-26-2016 at 9:25 PM..
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  #2283  
Old 01-27-2016, 6:25 AM
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Just to clear things up the best I can, I mentioned the "11 denied, mostly due to residency issues" in an earlier post. I go that info from Johnny Mac himself in the first post in this thread and I think he said that was 2013.

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  #2284  
Old 01-27-2016, 6:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Except that these are taking place during the 90 day wait for Sacramento to clear your livescan.

Claiming that this is causing a problem of bloat at the county level is the same as saying that your wife was wasting time playing Candy Crush while waiting for the dealer to change her oil.
There's nothing the county can do to speed the process along between the time of the interview and assignment to a class.
But they are being delayed because of things like employee checks, sometimes very long after the 90 day live-scan. It happened to me (nearly doubled the time). Why do you keep ignoring what others are saying? The truth is that these things are causing delays, discouraging some people from applying, and wasting resources. There is anecdotal evidence about it yet you keep saying that it's not an issue because in a perfect world that wouldn't happen.

Last edited by Nopal; 01-27-2016 at 6:40 AM..
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  #2285  
Old 01-27-2016, 6:38 AM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Unemployed, self employed, employed. Should not matter. I am self employed so they didn't send me a letter about me. They did send one to my wife's boss though. Pi ssed him off too, he thought she was applying for a county job cuz he didn't know what CCW was.

I totally agree the employer letter is a total waste of time.
Not only is it a waste of time. Some folks here have said they don't apply because of it. It is actually something to consider if you have anti-bosses.

Last edited by Nopal; 01-27-2016 at 7:42 AM..
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  #2286  
Old 01-27-2016, 7:43 AM
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Not only is it a waste of time. Some folks here have said they don't apply because of it. It is actually something to consider if you have anti-bosses. I didn't apply for over a year for that reason alone.
Everyone has to weigh how much having a CCW means to them and what they are willing to do to get it. If keeping a job working for an Anti boss is more important that is a choice. There will always be choices involved with CCW.

I wish they would drop the letter to the employer or at least phrase it like a security clearance. But I also see many people grabbing any excuse they find not to apply.

I have been bugging a friend to apply for 2 years and he keeps putting if off. I've heard every excuse. If he really wanted it he would have it already.

The day I found out SBSD had issued a CCW to a normal Joe like my I printed an application. Got an interview date the next day. I found out and climbed the hurdles as they came along.

All I can say to people is If having a CCW in San Bernardino County is important to you Apply. Sooner the better. Quit talking yourself out of it. Quit making here's why. I would have rather gone thru the whole process and been refused then not apply. The odds are greatly in your favor only time stands in your way.

If you don't apply because you have an anti boss or because you are afraid of your neighbors then

They have already won.
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  #2287  
Old 01-27-2016, 7:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Four were for residency issues in 2013
If you've got the 2015 numbers, I'm sure Brandon would like to see them as well as the 2014 numbers, because Kamala still hasn't released them.
At least one of the 2015 denials involved a Calguns member, and it was for GMC, not residency.

The neighborhood check is just as much about GMC as it is residence.
A lot of people have clean legal records, but are pot-smoking belligerent drunks causing problems with their neighbors.
The employment check is 100% about GMC.

It is not acceptable but is not a significant source of delay. Can you get into a Riverside or OC class on less than 2-4 weeks notice?
And how many folks have been denied because of GMC? According to the latest (a bit dated) numbers, most folks are denied because of residency issues, and that's a very small number in itself. So, is it worth the trouble and expense in resources? How about random checks or something that is more efficient but does give the sheriff peace of mind? (because that is what this seems to be more about).

Last edited by Nopal; 01-27-2016 at 8:07 AM..
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  #2288  
Old 01-27-2016, 8:03 AM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Everyone has to weigh how much having a CCW means to them and what they are willing to do to get it. If keeping a job working for an Anti boss is more important that is a choice. There will always be choices involved with CCW.

I wish they would drop the letter to the employer or at least phrase it like a security clearance. But I also see many people grabbing any excuse they find not to apply.

I have been bugging a friend to apply for 2 years and he keeps putting if off. I've heard every excuse. If he really wanted it he would have it already.

The day I found out SBSD had issued a CCW to a normal Joe like my I printed an application. Got an interview date the next day. I found out and climbed the hurdles as they came along.

All I can say to people is If having a CCW in San Bernardino County is important to you Apply. Sooner the better. Quit talking yourself out of it. Quit making here's why. I would have rather gone thru the whole process and been refused then not apply. The odds are greatly in your favor only time stands in your way.

If you don't apply because you have an anti boss or because you are afraid of your neighbors then

They have already won.
True, which is why I finally did apply.

It is, however, something that the SBSD chooses to impose that is not necessary, and though not illegal, it's extra-legal. If SBSD is the pro-2A bastion it's supposed to be, why make things more difficult for those applying? It may not be a big deal to some of us, for some of us folks that may have jobs where they could be more easily replaced or that are highly political, it may be a huge deal. Seeing as though they hardly ever deny someone for anything, let alone employment check (I've yet to hear a denial because of an Employer check), why put such a burden on the applicant?

Wouldn't you think they'd want to make it simpler to exercise your 2A, not harder?
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  #2289  
Old 01-27-2016, 8:39 AM
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i think the employer letter is their way of deterring folks from applying without openly contradicting their pro ccw stance. knowing that there will be folks that won't apply because of it.
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  #2290  
Old 01-27-2016, 11:11 AM
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It happened to me (nearly doubled the time).
Would have been nice to have had that information.

The only employment check related delay posted in the last 6-8 months that I recall was also around the holiday delays and was only a week or two.

So yours resulted in it taking over 9 months from application to issue?
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #2291  
Old 01-27-2016, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Nopal View Post
And how many folks have been denied because of GMC? According to the latest (a bit dated) numbers, most folks are denied because of residency issues, and that's a very small number in itself. So, is it worth the trouble and expense in resources? How about random checks or something that is more efficient but does give the sheriff peace of mind? (because that is what this seems to be more about).
Random checks open up the possibility of claims of profiling unless those "randomly selected" are restricted to white middle-aged males (sooner or later we're going to grow the huevos to complain too).

Everyone needs to play by the same rules, and everyone needs to go through the same process.

Yes, it is a small number of denials, but there ARE denials.
While the county is indemnified, they are still not free from pressure from Sacramento.
State law says Good Cause and Good Moral Character, and 4-16 hours of training.
The county is already running the minimum requirements for Good Cause, split the difference at 8 hours of training.
If they were to simply gloss over GMC completely and effectively go "shall issue", and there were an incident with a carrier who had a long history of arrests (but no convictions) or problems with their employer or neighbors, as well as an MMJ card and a couple of ounces of weed, there would be a LOT of pressure on the county to either tighten up requirements, perhaps under threat of funding cuts.

Likewise for residency.
Residency of the county didn't used to be a requirement. Some of the central California counties were issuing to LA residents like Arizona, so the state imposed the county residency requirement.

Same situation... LA resident who owns a cabin that he rents in Big Bear gets into an incident... The LA prosecutor starts hammering SBSD about why they issued to an LA resident.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #2292  
Old 01-27-2016, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
I have property tax bills in three counties. Which one proves to you where I reside the majority of the time??
None. One property tax bill may show which one was your primary residence on January 1st (homeowner's exemption), but none will identify what your primary residence was for the other 182 days.

Utility bills also don't prove any residence; they just show that the bill was sent to you and what usage there was at the property.

Last edited by herdafer; 01-27-2016 at 12:10 PM..
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  #2293  
Old 01-27-2016, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Random checks open up the possibility of claims of profiling unless those "randomly selected" are restricted to white middle-aged males (sooner or later we're going to grow the huevos to complain too).

Everyone needs to play by the same rules, and everyone needs to go through the same process.

Yes, it is a small number of denials, but there ARE denials.
While the county is indemnified, they are still not free from pressure from Sacramento.
State law says Good Cause and Good Moral Character, and 4-16 hours of training.
The county is already running the minimum requirements for Good Cause, split the difference at 8 hours of training.
If they were to simply gloss over GMC completely and effectively go "shall issue", and there were an incident with a carrier who had a long history of arrests (but no convictions) or problems with their employer or neighbors, as well as an MMJ card and a couple of ounces of weed, there would be a LOT of pressure on the county to either tighten up requirements, perhaps under threat of funding cuts.

Likewise for residency.
Residency of the county didn't used to be a requirement. Some of the central California counties were issuing to LA residents like Arizona, so the state imposed the county residency requirement.

Same situation... LA resident who owns a cabin that he rents in Big Bear gets into an incident... The LA prosecutor starts hammering SBSD about why they issued to an LA resident.
I agree. That ultimately is what it's all about: Politics and money (threats of funding cuts whether real or imagined), public image, re-electabilty, etc. It's a sad state of affairs when "what ifs" supercede the supreme law of the land.

Now the real reason for may-issue becomes clear: From the beginning it was meant to be a segregation tool to be used against the Chinese and Mexicans (which were the scapegoats at the time it was passed). Though it is no longer used to attack racial minorities, you've very clearly outlined how that tool works.
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  #2294  
Old 01-27-2016, 12:36 PM
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Off subject but anyone ever qualify with a 25 auto?
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  #2295  
Old 01-27-2016, 1:52 PM
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Your post is more on-subject that mine. My apologies.
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  #2296  
Old 01-27-2016, 2:41 PM
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Originally Posted by herdafer View Post
None. One property tax bill may show which one was your primary residence on January 1st (homeowner's exemption), but none will identify what your primary residence was for the other 182 days.

Utility bills also don't prove any residence; they just show that the bill was sent to you and what usage there was at the property.
Nothing proves anything 100% but there is a good chance if you or paying the utility bills you probably live there because few people pay all the utilities at a place they rent out and when take the utility bills along with the property tax bill that is a general indicator of where you reside. I have lived at the same location for over ten years and still don't know the first and last names of all my neighbors that live three to four houses on either side of me so to me the neighbor check doesn't really do anything for the GMC thing either and as I said before if someone is causing a
significant problem in the neighborhood a background check should reveal such.
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Old 01-27-2016, 2:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Random checks open up the possibility of claims of profiling unless those "randomly selected" are restricted to white middle-aged males (sooner or later we're going to grow the huevos to complain too).

Everyone needs to play by the same rules, and everyone needs to go through the same process.

Yes, it is a small number of denials, but there ARE denials.
While the county is indemnified, they are still not free from pressure from Sacramento.
State law says Good Cause and Good Moral Character, and 4-16 hours of training.
The county is already running the minimum requirements for Good Cause, split the difference at 8 hours of training.
If they were to simply gloss over GMC completely and effectively go "shall issue", and there were an incident with a carrier who had a long history of arrests (but no convictions) or problems with their employer or neighbors, as well as an MMJ card and a couple of ounces of weed, there would be a LOT of pressure on the county to either tighten up requirements, perhaps under threat of funding cuts.

Likewise for residency.
Residency of the county didn't used to be a requirement. Some of the central California counties were issuing to LA residents like Arizona, so the state imposed the county residency requirement.

Same situation... LA resident who owns a cabin that he rents in Big Bear gets into an incident... The LA prosecutor starts hammering SBSD about why they issued to an LA resident.
Proper background checks and proper review of tax and utility should catch both of the examples you cite.
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Old 01-27-2016, 6:14 PM
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Off subject but anyone ever qualify with a 25 auto?
It is permitted.
Literally anything (other than an assault weapon) from .25acp to .45 is permitted.
If you can put 10 rounds into the upper torso from 5 yards, and can keep your finger off the trigger and not muzzle anyone, you'll qualify.

Minimum caliber .25acp, FN 5.7 not accepted. There were a few disparaging comments (from class members, not the instructor) about the efficacy of anything smaller than .380, and the instructor did encourage .380/.38spl as a minimum.
Some exceptions to the .25 minimum have been made for persons with disabilities, but it is absolutely going to be a case-by-case thing that I imagine would need to be discussed with the investigating detective prior to range day.

If the minimum caliber is a problem, let me know and I'll shoot my instructor a note with your contact info.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 01-27-2016, 6:38 PM
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Originally Posted by R Dale View Post
I have lived at the same location for over ten years and still don't know the first and last names of all my neighbors that live three to four houses on either side of me
And that's not a bad thing...
"How long have you known Bob from 10-A?"
"I've seen him around as long as I've lived here but I never knew his name. Never had a reason to be concerned, they pretty much keep to themselves. No parties, rarely have any visitors, some cops talked to them when their neighbor got busted for drugs."

That's all my neighbors would be able to say.

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Originally Posted by R Dale View Post
Proper background checks and proper review of tax and utility should catch both of the examples you cite.
The arrest history, yes, BUT now we get back into the semantics of 2A where NOPAL is expressing an opinion (as far as I can tell) that a simple arrest is not sufficient for denial... it needs to be a prohibiting conviction... effectively applying a Constitutional-Carry standard without respect to limitations that may be placed on other elements of the Bill of Rights.

For residency? No, it's not sufficient.
Tax documents show ownership only, not occupancy. They to not reveal the lack of tax documents or lease agreements from other counties... and what county should the SD check? We are surrounded by counties that don't issue, MIGHT issue, or have a 12-36 month process.
What if I own a cabin in Big Bear, but I rent a condo in LA?

Likewise for utilities... they would work against you if you had the utility bills going to a PO Box in Upland, or LA County, but if you handle them electronically (I haven't had a paper utility bill in over 5 years, my HOA dues are the only thing that I still write a check for) then that is not proof that you are a resident of that location.
I've rented cabins and condos for short terms many times over the years and I've never once paid a utility bill unless I was moving into an actual permanent residence. The utilities were simply a part of the rental agreement.

That's why I specifically mentioned a cabin. There are a lot of them in San Bernardino and Riverside County.
Most that are not owner-occupied are rented for short-term stays. People rent them in the winter to ski, and they rent them in summer when they don't want to deal with camping or the crowds at hotels.

I'm upside down on my condo, and I work 40 miles away. It would not be unreasonable for me to rent the condo out to cover the mortgage until values recover, and move to a place north of Pasadena.

Two options for that... Talk to the neighbors, or put a deputy on the house for 5 days documenting who comes and goes.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 01-27-2016, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
And that's not a bad thing...
"How long have you known Bob from 10-A?"
"I've seen him around as long as I've lived here but I never knew his name. Never had a reason to be concerned, they pretty much keep to themselves. No parties, rarely have any visitors, some cops talked to them when their neighbor got busted for drugs."

That's all my neighbors would be able to say.


The arrest history, yes, BUT now we get back into the semantics of 2A where NOPAL is expressing an opinion (as far as I can tell) that a simple arrest is not sufficient for denial... it needs to be a prohibiting conviction... effectively applying a Constitutional-Carry standard without respect to limitations that may be placed on other elements of the Bill of Rights.

For residency? No, it's not sufficient.
Tax documents show ownership only, not occupancy. They to not reveal the lack of tax documents or lease agreements from other counties... and what county should the SD check? We are surrounded by counties that don't issue, MIGHT issue, or have a 12-36 month process.
What if I own a cabin in Big Bear, but I rent a condo in LA?

Likewise for utilities... they would work against you if you had the utility bills going to a PO Box in Upland, or LA County, but if you handle them electronically (I haven't had a paper utility bill in over 5 years, my HOA dues are the only thing that I still write a check for) then that is not proof that you are a resident of that location.
I've rented cabins and condos for short terms many times over the years and I've never once paid a utility bill unless I was moving into an actual permanent residence. The utilities were simply a part of the rental agreement.

That's why I specifically mentioned a cabin. There are a lot of them in San Bernardino and Riverside County.
Most that are not owner-occupied are rented for short-term stays. People rent them in the winter to ski, and they rent them in summer when they don't want to deal with camping or the crowds at hotels.

I'm upside down on my condo, and I work 40 miles away. It would not be unreasonable for me to rent the condo out to cover the mortgage until values recover, and move to a place north of Pasadena.

Two options for that... Talk to the neighbors, or put a deputy on the house for 5 days documenting who comes and goes
.


It is one thing to talk to the neighbors but they should not be told the reason the inquiry is being made other than its a background check. Also IMO if you can show you rent or own a property in the county and pay utilities at that address that is a pretty good indication that you are at that address some of the time and that be sufficient to get a permit and course you sign a document that you live there with the understanding that if you don't live where you say there will be a penalty.
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Old 01-27-2016, 10:47 PM
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It is one thing to talk to the neighbors but they should not be told the reason the inquiry is being made other than its a background check.
I agree, and this can depend on the investigating deputy.
Some members have reported the deputy said something more along the lines of "Non criminal investigation" or "Background check for a county permit"

In the case of the latter, the neighbor poked around the SD site and figured it out

Also, one of my concerns, that of my drug-dealing neighbor being contacted, it is probably safe to assume that they pre-screen neighbors they intend to speak to and probably won't be talking to the guy who is awaiting arraignment on his 3rd strike. Likewise, such people generally don't open doors for uniformed cops.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 01-28-2016, 9:48 PM
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What's up guys I applied for mine about a week ago and first available date was 10/11 haven't received an email yet.
One thing I am concerned about though, I read through about 50 pages from here back and didn't see the answer, I voluntarily attended a drug rehab program in 2009 and disclosed that on my application, I haven't had a single arrest or ticket or anything from then, but I also have a dui on my record in 2005, I hope the rehab thing or the dui for that matter doesn't disqualify me.
Any input from anyone with similar history would be appreciated, thanks guys.

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Old 01-28-2016, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by matix101 View Post
What's up guys I applied for mine about a week ago and first available date was 10/11 haven't received an email yet.
One thing I am concerned about though, I read through about 50 pages from here back and didn't see the answer, I voluntarily attended a drug rehab program in 2009 and disclosed that on my application, I haven't had a single arrest or ticket or anything from then, but I also have a dui on my record in 2005, I hope the rehab thing or the dui for that matter doesn't disqualify me.
Any input from anyone with similar history would be appreciated, thanks guys.
I don't think the DUI would be a problem.

The voluntary drug rehab may be a big help, especially since it worked and you've been clean for 7 years.
We've heard that the general guideline is any drug use within the last 10 years an an automatic DQ for GMC, but again, the voluntary rehab, AND the fact that you did not attempt to hide it, will certainly work in your favor.
It would certainly have resulted in a denial had you not disclosed it and it been discovered during the investigation. Remember, you're giving them a notarized document giving permission to look into anything and everything available... I'm not positive about HIPA, but medical records may be subject as well.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 01-28-2016, 10:30 PM
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Gotcha ok thanks, fingers crossed!!

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Old 01-29-2016, 9:13 AM
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I don't think the DUI would be a problem.

The voluntary drug rehab may be a big help, especially since it worked and you've been clean for 7 years.
We've heard that the general guideline is any drug use within the last 10 years an an automatic DQ for GMC, but again, the voluntary rehab, AND the fact that you did not attempt to hide it, will certainly work in your favor.
It would certainly have resulted in a denial had you not disclosed it and it been discovered during the investigation. Remember, you're giving them a notarized document giving permission to look into anything and everything available... I'm not positive about HIPA, but medical records may be subject as well.
Do you have a link to those guidelines?
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Old 01-29-2016, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
The voluntary drug rehab may be a big help, especially since it worked and you've been clean for 7 years.
We've heard that the general guideline is any drug use within the last 10 years an an automatic DQ for GMC, but again, the voluntary rehab, AND the fact that you did not attempt to hide it, will certainly work in your favor.
It would certainly have resulted in a denial had you not disclosed it and it been discovered during the investigation. Remember, you're giving them a notarized document giving permission to look into anything and everything available... I'm not positive about HIPA, but medical records may be subject as well.
Do you have a link to those guidelines?
There is nothing published.
This is based from statements made in this thread by applicants, and at least one of the instructors is active.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.

Last edited by Cokebottle; 01-29-2016 at 12:47 PM..
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Old 01-29-2016, 1:00 PM
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May be a dumb question. But I have my appointment for interview at the end of February, is it nessesary for me to make a Live Scan appointment for same day? Is this even possible?
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Old 01-29-2016, 1:07 PM
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There is nothing published.
This is based from statements made in this thread by applicants, and at least one of the instructors is active.
Horray for transparency!
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Old 01-29-2016, 1:08 PM
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May be a dumb question. But I have my appointment for interview at the end of February, is it nessesary for me to make a Live Scan appointment for same day? Is this even possible?
I believe that the Live Scan is taken care of after the interview, on site.
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Old 01-29-2016, 1:41 PM
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I believe that the Live Scan is taken care of after the interview, on site.
Correct.
Interview > Livescan > Photo > return to counter to pick up info packet for class.
No appointment is needed... just make sure to have your separate money orders signed and in order.

I would assume that if the interview does not go well, that you don't move on to Livescan and thus won't pay for it, but I don't now and didn't ask.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 01-29-2016, 7:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Correct.
Interview > Livescan > Photo > return to counter to pick up info packet for class.
No appointment is needed... just make sure to have your separate money orders signed and in order.

I would assume that if the interview does not go well, that you don't move on to Livescan and thus won't pay for it, but I don't now and didn't ask.

Correct. They told me if I was going to be denied they wouldn't even make me fill out the money orders so then I would not have spent any money. Once they asked me to make out the money orders I pretty much knew I was good.
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Old 01-29-2016, 8:37 PM
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Does anyone know if lasers are allowed in your carry weapon? If so can you remove em and add em as you please?
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Old 01-29-2016, 8:41 PM
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We can spend page after page of posts here complaining about their policies but what does it change???

They are what they are. San Bernardino issues to just about everyone who applies and jumps thru their hoops. That has been the case for years and years although they did drop several hoops in the last few years.

I like the guy who says OC is so much better when a few years ago they were basically non issue.

Their hoops are their hoops and if we have the GMC to hop thru them they issue. While not perfect it is better then many.

While we all agree it would be better if they did not tell your boss and neighbors it was for a CCW , but it is their practice. And as long as people try to game the residency requirement they will always have some system in place to at least attempt to prevent it. The proof of residency they except now is easier then it was a few years back.

We are making steady progress in this County and they do listen to us and they have been adjusting/ re-evaluation the requirements making it easier and more streamlined.

But we make the best progress with them when we behave like professionals instead of whining on the internet.
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Old 01-29-2016, 8:55 PM
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I don't think people are whining, I know in my case it's more anxious/nervous so I ask questions so I know what to expect, not whining about the process, I'm actually surprised it's the way it is, carrying a gun is a huge responsibility I wouldn't go as far as privilege, considering it's supposed to be a constitutional right, but I had been debating for a few years on applying and am actually surprised at how easy the process seems especially for commifornia and in today's day and age.
Just my 2c..

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Old 01-29-2016, 10:43 PM
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Does anyone know if lasers are allowed in your carry weapon? If so can you remove em and add em as you please?
No restrictions.
The county does not specifically prohibit any modifications or work.
At the class/range, they are looking for "broken" guns... issues with safeties, loose sights, slide locking back, trigger issues, etc.
Our instructor was even experimenting with a holo-red dot (and didn't seem thrilled)

That said....

Any modifications need to be defensible.
If you are involved in a shooting, your gun will be checked by the crime lab. Anything not within factory specs will be reported to the investigating officer (and become a matter of record that may be used in a civil suit against you even if you are not charged criminally)

Encouraged?
Night sights. Grips. Reliability enhancements including springs and trigger work.
Discouraged?
"Competition" type trigger jobs. Work and parts used should fall into the "service" type. A comment was made to one applicant "A little light?" but he was allowed to qualify with it.
One exact quote from class "Please do not disable any safeties"

Internal work should be performed by a competent smith, not "bubba with a Dremel."

Bottom line, the county is indemnified. It's no skin off their back if we get into trouble.
If it's a clean shoot, it's a clean shoot. If it is not, it's not. Whether or not criminal charges are brought will not depend on modifications you may have made to your gun.

There will likely be a civil suit. People don't like getting shot at. People don't like having relatives killed. Bogey may be a complete waste of protoplasm, but somewhere he has a mother that refuses to recognize that she raised someone who is honestly a bad person.

I don't see how a laser is going to pose any legal or civil issues.
Concealment? Depends on the design how much it impacts concealability.


The biggest issue *I* have with lasers (if you care)?
1 - They train you to rely on the red dot and you do not condition yourself to properly position the gun and focus on the front sight. If that battery fails, you've got a serious tactical problem.
2 - Target identification. Low power red lasers have a visibility problem in daylight. If the room is dark, you MUST be able to clearly identify your target before firing. You simply can not ethically shoot at a shadow in your kitchen, even if you know that your family is upstairs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 01-29-2016, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
they did drop several hoops in the last few years.
Haha... I see what you did there

Quote:
While we all agree it would be better if they did not tell your boss and neighbors it was for a CCW , but it is their practice.
And the main thing is indeed residency.
I, and more than one other, were simply handed business cards and asked to have a couple of neighbors call.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 01-29-2016, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by matix101 View Post
I don't think people are whining, I know in my case it's more anxious/nervous so I ask questions so I know what to expect, not whining about the process, I'm actually surprised it's the way it is, carrying a gun is a huge responsibility I wouldn't go as far as privilege, considering it's supposed to be a constitutional right, but I had been debating for a few years on applying and am actually surprised at how easy the process seems especially for commifornia and in today's day and age.
Just my 2c..
When Rod Hoops was in office, only part of why I did not apply was the written reference *plus* telephone reference requirements.
It was also the consideration of how serious the decision is, and whether or not I felt comfortable accepting that level of responsibility.
That took me some time to work through.

That point hit home a couple of weeks before my interview.
Around Thanksgiving, again, the "reality check" came in as I accepted the fact that this WAS going to happen.

It kinda peaked at the range.
My smartwatch monitors my pulse and feeds it to my phone.
For most of the day, my pulse was in the 75-80 range.
At 3:30, when we were on the line poking holes in paper, it was 120.

A combination of "Wow, this is really cool" and "Wow, this is really serious business"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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Old 01-30-2016, 6:48 AM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
We can spend page after page of posts here complaining about their policies but what does it change???

They are what they are. San Bernardino issues to just about everyone who applies and jumps thru their hoops. That has been the case for years and years although they did drop several hoops in the last few years.

I like the guy who says OC is so much better when a few years ago they were basically non issue.

Their hoops are their hoops and if we have the GMC to hop thru them they issue. While not perfect it is better then many.

While we all agree it would be better if they did not tell your boss and neighbors it was for a CCW , but it is their practice. And as long as people try to game the residency requirement they will always have some system in place to at least attempt to prevent it. The proof of residency they except now is easier then it was a few years back.

We are making steady progress in this County and they do listen to us and they have been adjusting/ re-evaluation the requirements making it easier and more streamlined.

But we make the best progress with them when we behave like professionals instead of whining on the internet.
So if this is whining, the opposite would be what, brown-nosing?

Look, it's true that they've improved things. A little under a year after McMahon took office from Hoops, their denial rate was still around 16% or so (I remember an old post where an insider claimed an 84% approval rate, just don't ask me where anymore). If true that only 11 folks were denied a year or two ago, then that's a vast improvement. A huge Kudos to the SBSD and to McMahon and my hat's off to the folks that have pushed for that change.

Still, some of these complaints are not new. For example, people have been complaining about employer checks for years. I think that part of the problem is that McMahon inherited a convoluted, over-the-top process that had at it's core the then-common but incorrect view of carry as a privilege, not a right (it's a privilege in other states which have an alternative to concealed carry, but this one does not). Instead of just going back to the drawing board on it, McMahon sort of continued with that process to this day while thankfully dropping quite a bit of hoops along the way (I really like that phrase!). Meanwhile, other counties such as OC just started from scratch and, spurred by the then new Peruta decision (which now sits in the quagmire that is the 9th), those counties operated on the correct assumption that concealed carry is indeed the right in this state. In short, the SBSD is slowly sloughing off the remnants of what it inherited. Some of us just wonder, though, why not just re-think the whole thing in the first place?
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Old 02-01-2016, 1:42 PM
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Had my interview today. Went off without a hitch. Didnt even look at my reason for applying other then to make sure I put something there. Interview was mainly going over your application and a form they had you fill out while you were there.

As others have stated, the main time sink is the Live Scan. When I was there, only 1 machine was working and they were taking down and installing more machines (but had no idea when they would be up). The plus side is that in the future, the Live Scan should go much faster.
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Old 02-01-2016, 1:55 PM
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Nice glad to hear you got it, I'm counting down the months.... only 8 more to go, lol

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