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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #81  
Old 02-06-2007, 8:12 PM
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Default Pwa

Is PWA on or off list? All I see being on the list is Colt AR-15, so where is the Listed Lowers. Post link that works and not PDF File. B2B
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  #82  
Old 02-06-2007, 9:08 PM
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i think pwa is on list.one of my buddys has one on his registered aw.
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  #83  
Old 02-07-2007, 8:27 AM
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I was wondering how PWA was on the list as they never made complete rifles as far as I know only receivers, so how could they be a AW, with out barrels stocks pistol grips etc. never could have been is the answer. If they are on the list it is because they were Pre Ban (R&R) ban, but as far as I know only colts were (R&R) listed. So where it the ON. list? I can seem to find it...B2B
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  #84  
Old 02-07-2007, 9:00 AM
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Have you tried looking at the list....? it clearly says: PWA- "all models."

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/kaslist.pdf
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  #85  
Old 02-07-2007, 9:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stator
Okay, check it out and here are some:

Manufacturer: Bushmaster
Model: XM15-E2S
What is listed: Bushmaster XM15 (all)
Okay, will someone who has a better handle on this than I do please opine on whether a Bushmaster XM15-E2S is or is not an OLL? Does the "all" meet the requirements under the case law to make it a listed lower, or is the "all" too vague for it to be considered listed, or was it enough for Bushmaster to add the E2S designation to the lower to make it an OLL?

I've been considering building a Bushmaster DCM for high power in the service rifle category, since it seems my Stag-15 lefty is probably only legal as a match rifle, and instead of just getting a righty DCM upper from Bushmaster to put on my Stag-15 lower for high power matches, my anal retentive nature would like it to be a complete Bushmaster build, upper and lower.

On the other hand, I might just go the White Oak route and mix and match that with my Stag-15 lower. Haven't made up my mind yet. Maybe both???

Still, I'd like to know if an XM15-E2S is even a legal option for the PRK.

Opinions, please??

Thanks!
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  #86  
Old 02-07-2007, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paratus et Vigilans
Okay, will someone who has a better handle on this than I do please opine on whether a Bushmaster XM15-E2S is or is not an OLL? Does the "all" meet the requirements under the case law to make it a listed lower, or is the "all" too vague for it to be considered listed, or was it enough for Bushmaster to add the E2S designation to the lower to make it an OLL?

I've been considering building a Bushmaster DCM for high power in the service rifle category, since it seems my Stag-15 lefty is probably only legal as a match rifle, and instead of just getting a righty DCM upper from Bushmaster to put on my Stag-15 lower for high power matches, my anal retentive nature would like it to be a complete Bushmaster build, upper and lower.

On the other hand, I might just go the White Oak route and mix and match that with my Stag-15 lower. Haven't made up my mind yet. Maybe both???

Still, I'd like to know if an XM15-E2S is even a legal option for the PRK.

Opinions, please??

Thanks!
Only the Carbon models are ok here. Anything with a XM15 in the model # is no go.

White Oak makes twice the rifle anyhow.
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  #87  
Old 02-07-2007, 1:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6172crew
Only the Carbon models are ok here. Anything with a XM15 in the model # is no go.

White Oak makes twice the rifle anyhow.
Thanks, Crew! That's pretty much what I expected on the XM-15 issue, and from what I've read about White Oak's work I'm probably ahead of the game going with a WOA upper anyway.

This board is such an incredible resource!
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  #88  
Old 04-17-2007, 3:16 PM
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Default This one too..

Don't forget the Sendra Corp. XM15E2.
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  #89  
Old 04-17-2007, 4:01 PM
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Paratus,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paratus et Vigilans View Post
Okay, will someone who has a better handle on this than I do please opine on whether a Bushmaster XM15-E2S is or is not an OLL?
The actual rifle is XM15-E2S, but the receiver will just be marked "Bushmaster XM-15", which is a listed/named gun on Kasler list.

The Roberti-Roos lists and Kasler lists are very inconsistent with gun makes and models. The people who drew up these lists sometimes invented nonexistent guns. I don't think we have any case law past Harrott about further naming issues, and what really is named or not.

BTW a case could be made that items like "Widget (all)" are nonspecific enough that it just moves the "series" uncertainty discussed in Harrott down one level. An argument could probably be proferred for the converse, as well - it's too grey, and there are so many well-nigh-identical lowers, why even bother?

We probably have the good, though on various Colt rifles for defense against named possession though. While Roberti-Roos list bans the Colt AR15, and the Kasler list lists the Colt Sporter, Match Target, etc., these are all essentially 'series' terms in and of themselves, as there are a variety of rifles under each of these colloquial terms. While the receivers have these marks, they are also referred to and ordered by their actual Colt model numbers - R6601, MT6700, Model 601, ST6000, etc. Ordering a Colt AR15 or a Sporter Target from a distributor will be met by a puzzled question: which one of a over a dozen types do you want? This is further complicated by the Evan's Gunsmithing fiasco where they may not be considering certain Colt models as listed because they're gonna consider them as "MT6000" instead of "Match Target".

Also many Colt Match Target receivers are marked something like "Colt Match Target HBar Competition Tactical Nuclear Ninja" or whatever, which is a distinction and a difference from banned "Match Target" (though 'Match Target (all)' is the Kasler-banned entity). But these are not models, they are marketing monikers, and the Colt catalog entry for model # will be MT6400 or MT6700.



Anyway if you want a Bushy DCM rifle, just take a Stag lower and stuff it with Bushy DCM parts and DCM upper. Problem solved.
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  #90  
Old 06-04-2007, 4:10 PM
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Awesome. Thanks everyone.
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  #91  
Old 06-04-2007, 6:51 PM
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Originally Posted by knight_dive View Post
CAVALRY ARMS
MKII
xenophobe[/size]

Are you sure about the Cav Arms Mk II since the pg is integral to the molding? If anyone has dros'ed one let me know, and please let me know where you can get a Cav Arms MKII receiver with a fixed mag. These are incredible recievers. They're now marketed through Eagle Arms (div. of Armalite) as the Poly-15 also.
how about the eagle arms ar-10...or is that a grey area?
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  #92  
Old 06-04-2007, 7:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paratus et Vigilans View Post
Okay, will someone who has a better handle on this than I do please opine on whether a Bushmaster XM15-E2S is or is not an OLL? Does the "all" meet the requirements under the case law to make it a listed lower, or is the "all" too vague for it to be considered listed, or was it enough for Bushmaster to add the E2S designation to the lower to make it an OLL?

I've been considering building a Bushmaster DCM for high power in the service rifle category, since it seems my Stag-15 lefty is probably only legal as a match rifle, and instead of just getting a righty DCM upper from Bushmaster to put on my Stag-15 lower for high power matches, my anal retentive nature would like it to be a complete Bushmaster build, upper and lower.

On the other hand, I might just go the White Oak route and mix and match that with my Stag-15 lower. Haven't made up my mind yet. Maybe both???

Still, I'd like to know if an XM15-E2S is even a legal option for the PRK.

Opinions, please??

Thanks!
Your 'anal retentive nature' aside, very few if anyone at a match will check the maker label on the other guy's AR. I personally have never done that because the rifle itself is so ubiquitous. If, however, itís a match rifle - and it shots well - you may very well be asked who made it.
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  #93  
Old 06-04-2007, 7:47 PM
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His Anal Retentive nature may keep him out of a court room and eventually Jail/Prison.

I would tend to be very careful and since that model is listed in Roberti-Roos and most likely Kasler as well.

Its a AW plain and simple

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankee Clipper View Post
Your 'anal retentive nature' aside, very few if anyone at a match will check the maker label on the other guy's AR. I personally have never done that because the rifle itself is so ubiquitous. If, however, itís a match rifle - and it shots well - you may very well be asked who made it.
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  #94  
Old 09-13-2007, 10:26 PM
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I'm late to the party, but how did the .50 Bouwolf get on there? Since it's a 50 cliber isn't therefor banned? Or am I missing somthing?
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  #95  
Old 09-13-2007, 10:28 PM
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Only .50BMG was banned.

-Gene
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  #96  
Old 09-13-2007, 10:29 PM
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Only rifles chambering 50 BMG are banned. That list refers to make and models (most) that are banned by name.
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  #97  
Old 09-14-2007, 9:35 AM
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Ah thanks for the clarification.
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  #98  
Old 09-14-2007, 11:45 AM
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I didn't see the Calguns OLL (SB23 Series), POF 308 or Fulton FAR 308 on the list so I turned mine in to the local PD. They said it was a good thing I didn't get caught with these guns and that I did the right thing. They sure seemed happy.
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  #99  
Old 09-14-2007, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKman View Post
I didn't see the Calguns OLL (SB23 Series), POF 308 or Fulton FAR 308 on the list so I turned mine in to the local PD. They said it was a good thing I didn't get caught with these guns and that I did the right thing. They sure seemed happy.
hopefully this is sarcasm..

Xeno is lazy and hasn't updated the list.
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  #100  
Old 09-14-2007, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Tweak338 View Post
hopefully this is sarcasm..

Xeno is lazy and hasn't updated the list.
Yes it is. I noticed that there are a lot of OLLs that haven't made the list yet. I go by the BOF list of what I can't have. The only things I avoid are OLLs that are just too close to the BOF list like some of the RRA models.
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  #101  
Old 09-14-2007, 12:43 PM
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There is about 11 OLL not yet listed on this thread. Happy hunting.
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  #102  
Old 02-03-2008, 2:37 AM
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Red face AR-15 build question

Alright I could use some help on this one (new to CA gun rules). I've looked up every rule and regulation I could find, and just finished building a match AR with the following parts:

LAR Mfg/Gunsmoke Enterprises logo LAR-15 lower
RRA upper w/ Satern stainless barrel (crowned, no FH or compensator)
JP Match Trigger
10rd mag fixed w/Prince50

Can any of the law pros here let me know if I'm running a risk of having a legal problem with this rifle?

Thanks and Cheers,
Tom
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  #103  
Old 02-03-2008, 2:46 AM
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Let me preface this by saying the ownership of any firearm is not without risk.

That being said, assuming the barrel is longer than 16" and the OAL is over 30", that configuration has no issues; you're GTG.

I'd suggest getting a Bullet Button over the standard Prince50. Dropping magazines with a tool for loading is much more convenient than top-loading.

You can also add a compensator, flash hider or anything else that are features, since you're building a fixed magazine rifle.

You should look over this thread to understand why it is legal. It might be of help should you have any interactions with someone who is skeptical.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=56818



Quote:
Originally Posted by Godaminski View Post
Alright I could use some help on this one (new to CA gun rules). I've looked up every rule and regulation I could find, and just finished building a match AR with the following parts:

LAR Mfg/Gunsmoke Enterprises logo LAR-15 lower
RRA upper w/ Satern stainless barrel (crowned, no FH or compensator)
JP Match Trigger
10rd mag fixed w/Prince50

Can any of the law pros here let me know if I'm running a risk of having a legal problem with this rifle?

Thanks and Cheers,
Tom
Semper Paratus, Semper Vigilans

Last edited by aplinker; 02-03-2008 at 2:50 AM..
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  #104  
Old 02-05-2008, 3:13 PM
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ok fine and dandy listing whose recivers we can buy.

is there a store that stocks these lowers here in ca?

seeing as how some of the dealers/manf, do not want to deal with any person or dealer here in ca.
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  #105  
Old 02-05-2008, 8:49 PM
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Really really good list, so I REALLY REALLY hate to say this (and you can call me paranoid), but now the bad guys have the complete list that they probably wouldn't have been able to generate themselves.
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  #106  
Old 02-05-2008, 9:12 PM
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Umm, so what. They can't do anything with it anyway.
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  #107  
Old 02-05-2008, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptoguy2002 View Post
Really really good list, so I REALLY REALLY hate to say this (and you can call me paranoid), but now the bad guys have the complete list that they probably wouldn't have been able to generate themselves.
I hate to be the one to break this to you, the BAD GUYS are the one's who made the REAL LIST, the one that makes these the OFF LIST LOWERS. Without THE ON LIST, we don got no stinking OFF LIST!
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  #108  
Old 02-05-2008, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godaminski View Post
Blah blah blah blah blah.
HOLY THREAD RESURRECTION, BATMAN!
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  #109  
Old 02-06-2008, 5:27 AM
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HOLY THREAD RESURRECTION, BATMAN!
You should feel honored.
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  #110  
Old 02-06-2008, 10:23 AM
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Awesome, so I can order the ST-15 punisher OLL from 10% soon.
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  #111  
Old 02-20-2008, 6:25 AM
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ok so fine and dandy, there are a bunch of recivers on the good list we can buy, but is there a ffl in northern ca that will stock of even sell one?




.
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  #112  
Old 02-20-2008, 6:35 AM
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Originally Posted by packnrat View Post
ok so fine and dandy, there are a bunch of recivers on the good list we can buy, but is there a ffl in northern ca that will stock of even sell one?
.
Have you bothered too look here? http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=63050
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  #113  
Old 02-20-2008, 11:55 AM
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I would update the list... but what's the point.... anything that is not listed under Roberti-Roos or Kasler is fine as long as it's in a legal configuration. Besides... I haven't even tied my shoes yet today.

Last edited by xenophobe; 02-20-2008 at 12:22 PM..
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  #114  
Old 02-20-2008, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post
I would update the list... but what's the point.... anything that is not listed under Roberti-Roos or Kasler is fine as long as it's in a legal configuration.
Seriously, too many people need 'approval'......most of us were satisfied with the DOJ acknowledged Harrot case. That is all the 'approval' necessary to stay legal.

1. Find roster of listed AWs
2. Google ar-15 or ak-47 receivers
3. Scrub the two lists
4. Purchase legal lower not found on list from step #1
5. Study SB-23
6. Follow instructions
7. Build compliant rifle
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  #115  
Old 02-20-2008, 1:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Hopi View Post
Seriously, too many people need 'approval'......most of us were satisfied with the DOJ acknowledged Harrot case. That is all the 'approval' necessary to stay legal.

1. Find roster of listed AWs
2. Google ar-15 or ak-47 receivers
3. Scrub the two lists
4. Purchase legal lower not found on list from step #1
5. Study SB-23
6. Follow instructions
7. Build compliant rifle
Exactly, besides there are too many one-off's and new "manufacturers" popping up every minute that I can't possibly keep track of all the variants.
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  #116  
Old 02-20-2008, 2:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenophobe View Post
Exactly, besides there are too many one-off's and new "manufacturers" popping up every minute that I can't possibly keep track of all the variants.
Too true. I like finding those little hidden gems.....there is even a lower built by a company that is titled with my last name.....that is my next OLL purchase, now if I can just decide what else i want to bundle on that DROS.....how sweet would it be to have " _________ Gunworks" (insert your last name here)....
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  #117  
Old 02-21-2008, 11:05 PM
OnTargetShooter OnTargetShooter is offline
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Hello Calgunners, I met someone from Burros the other day who spoke of this great website. And got me interested in CA legal ARs.
I've just read the OLL faq. And my understanding is that, if I could have these receivers sent from out of state dealer to local CA FFL. I can purchase them as long as they are shipped w/o evil features ? I'm interested in these items:

1. SMITH AND WESSON, M&P-15T
2. DPMS, LR-308
3. Robinson Armament, VEPR


Please let me know, since I've been dying to get one since I was in servies
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  #118  
Old 02-22-2008, 6:47 AM
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C.G. C.G. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTargetShooter View Post
Hello Calgunners, I met someone from Burros the other day who spoke of this great website. And got me interested in CA legal ARs.
I've just read the OLL faq. And my understanding is that, if I could have these receivers sent from out of state dealer to local CA FFL. I can purchase them as long as they are shipped w/o evil features ? I'm interested in these items:

1. SMITH AND WESSON, M&P-15T
2. DPMS, LR-308
3. Robinson Armament, VEPR


Please let me know, since I've been dying to get one since I was in servies
DPMS LR-308 is a no go, it is listed. You would have to get a POF or a Fulton lower instead.
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  #119  
Old 02-22-2008, 8:30 AM
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thmpr thmpr is offline
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If you want a DPMS brand AR lower, go with a Fulton lower and build it from there. Or the next best thing is the JP LR07 Rifle which is only sold as a complete rifle at this time.
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  #120  
Old 02-22-2008, 9:43 AM
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Originally Posted by C.G. View Post
DPMS LR-308 is a no go, it is listed. You would have to get a POF or a Fulton lower instead.
DPMS LR-308 is NOT listed. Not by make & model at least. The LR-308 was manufactured 2 years AFTER the list. However, it does read DPMS (all). That damn (all) is grey area that few would like to venture into. Especially not when there are other clearly legal options.
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