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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 02-15-2018, 8:14 AM
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Default Ignorant on the new ammo shipping law

A friend of mine ordered ammo from a mom and pop shop out in the Midwest. My friend and the store owner were not well versed on the latest ammo sale laws in Kalifornia. The shipment got stopped at FedEx for improper paperwork. It was an honest mistake on his part, but we all know that ignorance is no excuse. What are the ramifications he can expect?




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Old 02-15-2018, 8:31 AM
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Probably just lost money and time. It needs to be sent to an FFL for the transaction.
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Old 02-15-2018, 8:32 AM
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DOJ, FBI, CIA, NSA, black helicopters, no knock raid, etc, etc. He should run now while has has the chance. South America is a great place to hide.
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Old 02-15-2018, 8:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cire raeb View Post
A friend of mine ordered ammo from a mom and pop shop out in the Midwest. My friend and the store owner were not well versed on the latest ammo sale laws in Kalifornia. The shipment got stopped at FedEx for improper paperwork. It was an honest mistake on his part, but we all know that ignorance is no excuse. What are the ramifications he can expect?
Something seems a little off. What paperwork? How does FedEx know "your friend" doesn't have an FFL03+COE? Since when does FedEx enforce CA law?

What's the rest of the story?
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Old 02-15-2018, 8:43 AM
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Which means your friend is an apathetic gun owner, probably doesn't vote, and like most gun owners in California, has not been paying attention the past few YEARS to the fact that this "new ammo shipping law" was in the works.

With all the rollercoaster lead-up to the legislation, the awareness of it prior to being put up for a vote of Prop 63, information campaigns, then the petition drives and 'Gunmageddon', discussions prior to it going in effect and more... it's a lot more than simple ignorance.

It's wilful apathy, disregard, and negligence. He is contributory to the problem, and the master of his own current dilemma.

No sympathy, and I care not to help; because his 'ignorance' clearly indicates he didn't care to help stop these laws when it was needed from him, otherwise he would have been aware of them.

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Old 02-15-2018, 8:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshill View Post
Something seems a little off. What paperwork? How does FedEx know "your friend" doesn't have an FFL03+COE? Since when does FedEx enforce CA law?



What's the rest of the story?

He said they delayed his shipment for improper ORD paperwork. I assume that is the queue for it to be shipped only to an FFL, which he is not. He was clueless when I mentioned the new law that went into effect to him.


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Old 02-15-2018, 8:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshill View Post
Something seems a little off. What paperwork? How does FedEx know "your friend" doesn't have an FFL03+COE? Since when does FedEx enforce CA law?

What's the rest of the story?
Exactly my first thought, as well. Why does FedEx care whether or not you're eligible to receive ammo? Nothing in CA law requires anyone to furnish special "paperwork" to FedEx for ammo shipments, except perhaps for hazmat... So maybe "your friend's" shipment from the ma-and-pa store was clearly marked as ammo, but they didn't pay the proper hazmat fees or whatever FedEx requires for that.

The net result is that probably the ammo gets sent back to the seller and "your friend" is out the cost of shipping... unless it was indeed a hazmat-type issue, in which case you might be able to persuade the seller to eat the cost of the return shipment themselves.
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Old 02-15-2018, 8:53 AM
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Originally Posted by cire raeb View Post
He said they delayed his shipment for improper ORD paperwork. I assume that is the queue for it to be shipped only to an FFL, which he is not. He was clueless when I mentioned the new law that went into effect to him.
Missing a letter. And no. Wrong. Same could have occurred 10 years ago.

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Old 02-15-2018, 8:53 AM
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Originally Posted by cire raeb View Post
He was clueless when I mentioned the new law that went into effect to him.
That means he probably voted for it, too

Anyways, i have no idea what ORD is an acronym for. Ordnance? In which case yes, it's almost certainly because the proper hazmat papers/fees weren't tendered to Fedex - something that is not related to the new ammo laws. That would definitely be the seller's fault, and they should eat the cost of re-shipping it to you. This time, have it sent to an FFL instead of your house. (check with the FFL in advance)
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  #10  
Old 02-15-2018, 8:57 AM
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Hope he learned his lesson and be active when it comes to 2A.


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Old 02-15-2018, 10:29 AM
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Ammo is shipped ORM-D, not ORD, just like a multitude of things. Must go ground, so if it wasn't declared properly or they tried to ship via Air freight, that is probably the issue, not the ammo law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORM-D
Quote:
ORM-D is a marking for mail or shipping in the United States that identifies other regulated materials for domestic transport only. Packages bearing this mark contain hazardous material in a limited quantity that presents a limited hazard during transportation, due to its form, quantity, and packaging.

Consumer commodity is a hazardous material that is packaged and distributed in a quantity and form intended or suitable for retail sale and designed for consumption by individuals for their personal care or household use purposes. This term can also include certain drugs or medicines.

Examples of items classed ORM-D include:

Aerosol cans
Charcoal
Drain openers[citation needed]
Lighters
Nitromethane fuel[citation needed]
Perfumes
Small arms ammunition[1] (not shipped as Consumer Commodity)[2]
Soldering flux
Some photographic chemicals
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Old 02-15-2018, 2:55 PM
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Package must look like, feel like ammo and not have the proper ORM-D label attached. Shipper probably just slapped label on the factory box.
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Old 02-15-2018, 3:56 PM
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Chill out dude, there are plenty of folks that just aren't that aware. With so much that changes around here so quickly, you can't expect each and every gun owner in California to be 100% up to date on every issue. I know for a fact that my father for example wouldn't have even known about registration unless I mentioned it to him, let alone this ammo law.

"wilful apathy, disregard, and negligence" get off your high horse


Quote:
Originally Posted by CALI-gula View Post
Which means your friend is an apathetic gun owner, probably doesn't vote, and like most gun owners in California, has not been paying attention the past few YEARS to the fact that this "new ammo shipping law" was in the works.

With all the rollercoaster lead-up to the legislation, the awareness of it prior to being put up for a vote of Prop 63, information campaigns, then the petition drives and 'Gunmageddon', discussions prior to it going in effect and more... it's a lot more than simple ignorance.

It's wilful apathy, disregard, and negligence. He is contributory to the problem, and the master of his own current dilemma.

No sympathy, and I care not to help; because his 'ignorance' clearly indicates he didn't care to help stop these laws when it was needed from him, otherwise he would have been aware of them.

.
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Old 02-15-2018, 3:59 PM
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wrong forum off with their heads.
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  #15  
Old 02-15-2018, 9:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Tehjosheh View Post
Chill out dude, there are plenty of folks that just aren't that aware. With so much that changes around here so quickly, you can't expect each and every gun owner in California to be 100% up to date on every issue. I know for a fact that my father for example wouldn't have even known about registration unless I mentioned it to him, let alone this ammo law.

"wilful apathy, disregard, and negligence" get off your high horse
"there are plenty of folks that just aren't that aware"... and THAT IS THE PROBLEM, because there is no lack of information in order to be aware if such people weren't so damned apathetic about their 2nd Amendment rights in the first place, and when they expose that apathy, should be vilified for it.

So no, there is no "chilling out"... dude. ( Are you a teen? )

This was no small "change", that was my point. To have not known about this is ridiculous on several fronts, made aware over the past 2.5 years' time. Regardless, it's not even the issue; sounds like the shipper merely forgot to advise of the hazardous contents and have it slapped with an ORM-D sticker.

I've had enough of 25 years of fighting Anti-2nd Amendment legislation in this state nearly every day, to go soft or passive on those who repeatedly ignore the issues, do nothing, and then find themselves in a pickle at some later date because of their apathy. Or worse, because we all suffer worse, from their apathy.

It's only such a serendipitous pile of fecal mess when they come here to complain about it, and no, I won't let up for one damned minute when they do.

So kindly suck it; but I'll gladly get off my high horse to pull the head out of its arse of such apathetic sots, so we can get moving again and on to bigger and better things; they are holding us back.
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Old 02-16-2018, 5:03 AM
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Fed Ex has local police officers with offices in their hubs and they do check packages. I travel and I will often ship my guns overnight instead of taking them on a plane.

I have had police call me from kalifornia fed ex hubs and tell me that “ my package tested positive for drugs” which is a catch all for you have no fourth amendment rights. They have opened my guns with me on the phone. Be carefull if you ship a high cap....do not include the mags
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Old 02-16-2018, 5:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALI-gula View Post
"there are plenty of folks that just aren't that aware"... and THAT IS THE PROBLEM, because there is no lack of information in order to be aware if such people weren't so damned apathetic about their 2nd Amendment rights in the first place, and when they expose that apathy, should be vilified for it.

So no, there is no "chilling out"... dude. ( Are you a teen? )

This was no small "change", that was my point. To have not known about this is ridiculous on several fronts, made aware over the past 2.5 years' time. Regardless, it's not even the issue; sounds like the shipper merely forgot to advise of the hazardous contents and have it slapped with an ORM-D sticker.

I've had enough of 25 years of fighting Anti-2nd Amendment legislation in this state nearly every day, to go soft or passive on those who repeatedly ignore the issues, do nothing, and then find themselves in a pickle at some later date because of their apathy. Or worse, because we all suffer worse, from their apathy.

It's only such a serendipitous pile of fecal mess when they come here to complain about it, and no, I won't let up for one damned minute when they do.

So kindly suck it; but I'll gladly get off my high horse to pull the head out of its arse of such apathetic sots, so we can get moving again and on to bigger and better things; they are holding us back.
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Old 02-16-2018, 5:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALI-gula View Post
It's only such a serendipitous pile of fecal mess when they come here to complain about it, and no, I won't let up for one damned minute when they do.

So kindly suck it; but I'll gladly get off my high horse to pull the head out of its arse of such apathetic sots, so we can get moving again and on to bigger and better things; they are holding us back.
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Has anyone ever told you you'd be great at recruiting for gun rights groups? You just have such a beautiful way with words!
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Old 02-16-2018, 8:19 AM
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Hey CALI-gula, way to pat yourself on the back while berating others. We are all so enriched by your decision to take time from your day to ***** about gun owners who are less informed than yourself. (slow clap...into face palm) You are such a wonderful supporter of all things 2A, and we as a community are so blessed to have you grace the likes of lesser gun owners with your glorious presence. Furthermore; I liken you to the cleansing product for the female genitalia, good day.
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Old 02-16-2018, 8:36 AM
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I have ammo delivered to my home via Fedex regularly, last week, this week, next week. I am exempt because I have 03FFL + COE.

But Fedex has NO WAY TO KNOW THAT. They just leave it on my porch and drive away.

Fedex is not policing ammo shipments for the new ammo law. Something else went wrong with this package that had nothing to do with the new ammo law.

And ammo does not have to carry a ORM-D label. It can alternately and in fact should use a Limited Quantity label, which is how almost every ammo shipper I know sends them.

ORM-D is being phased out, and can no longer be used after 12/31/2020. https://www.ups.com/us/en/help-cente...uirements.page

Quote:
Effective January 19, 2011, with the publication of the HM-215K final rule, the hazard class of ORM-D is being eliminated. Those materials may still be shipped classified as a limited quantity.
And there are plenty of common materials that need this sticker, including hair spray.

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Old 02-16-2018, 9:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tehjosheh View Post
Has anyone ever told you you'd be great at recruiting for gun rights groups? You just have such a beautiful way with words!
Quote:
Originally Posted by xbxb040 View Post
Hey CALI-gula, way to pat yourself on the back while berating others. We are all so enriched by your decision to take time from your day to ***** about gun owners who are less informed than yourself. (slow clap...into face palm) You are such a wonderful supporter of all things 2A, and we as a community are so blessed to have you grace the likes of lesser gun owners with your glorious presence. Furthermore; I liken you to the cleansing product for the female genitalia, good day.
I don't pat myself on the back; I don't need to. I KNOW I deserve that and more. I work every mother-humping day, and willingly recognize those that work hard alongside me. A lot of people deserve a pat on the back for the never-ending tireless fight for carrying the weight of useless, apathetic losers that do nothing, who can't even get up from the couch to turn off 'Dancing with The Stars' or 'Call of Duty' to go to address the drafts of Anti-2nd Amendment legislation when needed, LET ALONE go to the polls to vote.

Yes, you ARE both blessed to enjoy the blessed nature of my grace, my passion to protect the 2nd Amendment for me and others, and for the grace you are in benefit of others, and that of many other Calgunners, the NRA, CRPA, and more; it's called hard work, effort, paying attention, and never relaxing for a minute. For that reason, as I said, I will NOT give an inch of passivity or remorse for useless fools, for which I will not suffer.

However, unlike you two, I have no wish to return your vacuous insults. I am under the assumption you both do your part, and ARE members of the NRA and/or CRPA... you are, aren't you?

And yet, what do we constantly get here on Calguns? Nearly a 50-percentile of those same idiots showing up on Calguns that do nothing, chiming in who also call the NRA or CRPA, or any working efforts in general to stop Anti-2nd Amendment legislation useless, and often they are neither NRA and/or CRPA members. Or coming around after the fact, sounding off and whining about "Kalifornia" and "these new laws".

It's inexcusable and unacceptable.

We are already suffering the antics of fools, and it's time we expose them when they arise. Get them off the ship, we have places to go, and they are slowing us down.

I'm done coddling and being nice to the likes of those who got us where we are today. Maybe a bit of shame will wake up their sorry butts to pay more attention and take what we are doing here more seriously.

For that matter, when you are so long into this that you can predict nearly to the day when these types of "have you heard about this new law?" posts will start to show up, per link below, then I can listen to your drivel:

From 12/21/2017 on this very topic of carping about the ammo restrictions:

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...1&postcount=26

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...y#post21055571


Quote:
Originally Posted by CALI-gula View Post
If you think this is last minute, wait until February when the real dolts start arriving here on Calguns posting new threads with titles like:

"Have you heard about this new ammo law?" and....

"SG Ammo sucks; they won't ship ammo to CA anymore!" and the obligatory...

"When did this happen?!"




.

From 1/1/2018:

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...0&postcount=66

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...y#post21097800

Quote:
Originally Posted by CALI-gula View Post
The real replies to this thread will start to show up around February and March, maybe not even until February and March NEXT YEAR (2019) with replies of "when did they pass this law" and "have you heard about the 'new' bans on ammo? And "when did this happen?"

.


Suck on that butt plug.


.

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Old 02-16-2018, 9:55 AM
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FedEx stopped the package because ammo is considered a dangerous good and needs to labeled as such. It’s FedEx and most other shippers policy. It had nothing to do with CA’s ammo law.
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Old 02-16-2018, 1:14 PM
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What are the ramifications he can expect?
All I can suggest is run and hide asap, they will come for him with a big ramrod and it's not going to be for the door.
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Old 02-16-2018, 5:15 PM
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Cali-GULA, LMAO.

You are a long-winded, grumpy sum***** aren't you? I take it back, you don't pat yourself on the back, you publicly stroke yourself. As for member of the NRA, I was, but NEVER again. When I found that they supported the 1934 NFA, the 1968 GCA, NICS, the Hughes Amendment, and most recently the effort to ban all firing rate increasing devices(bump stock ban) that was enough for me. You go ahead and give your money to those bastards that sell your rights so they can profit from "trying" to get them back for you. Not for me. GOA is where my dollars go.

You can go ahead and fool yourself into believing that if only every gun owner in CA would do their part we could win. In a state of 40 million people, the true 2nd Amendment supporters are few, and we are severely outnumbered by those who prefer the Govt tit, thinking only uniforms should have guns. Don't misunderstand what I am saying here, that is not an excuse for apathy, but its reality.

I don't understand why you think berating people who are less informed is of any benefit to them, who may very well be green gun owners who have yet to experience the hellish war that is CA gun ownership in its fullness. I have faith that they will come around, as I did. Keep fighting the good fight, but you don't have to be a dick about it.
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Old 02-17-2018, 5:03 AM
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DEFY!!!!!!!!
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Old 02-17-2018, 5:09 AM
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I don't understand why you think berating people who are less informed is of any benefit to them, who may very well be green gun owners who have yet to experience the hellish war that is CA gun ownership in its fullness. I have faith that they will come around, as I did. Keep fighting the good fight, but you don't have to be a dick about it.
Well said xbxb040.. Villifying the average gun owner is misplaced frustration. What about all of the folks who are actively pursuing removing our rights?? Uneducation can always be taught - but not by flamethrowing
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Old 02-17-2018, 5:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Tehjosheh View Post
Chill out dude, there are plenty of folks that just aren't that aware. With so much that changes around here so quickly, you can't expect each and every gun owner in California to be 100% up to date on every issue. I know for a fact that my father for example wouldn't have even known about registration unless I mentioned it to him, let alone this ammo law.

"wilful apathy, disregard, and negligence" get off your high horse
I think the legislators purposely continue to change/add/distort the laws - to keep people confused...

I used to be up on all of them, but since moving I'm only vaguely familiar with the changes... Its literally a full time preoccupation to keep up with it all.

I was never really aware of how convoluted everything is until I didn't have to care anymore - it's nuts to expect resident citizens to keep up with it all... But like a lot of things there, you don't fully realize the insanity until you are out of it.
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Old 02-17-2018, 10:01 AM
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CALI-gula CALI-gula is offline
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Originally Posted by xbxb040 View Post
As for member of the NRA, I was, but NEVER again.
You just proved your worth.... as worthless. Saved for indelible remembrance.

Thank you for confirming. Proceed to politely fall in line to be herded.

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Originally Posted by Tehjosheh View Post
Villifying the average gun owner is misplaced frustration.
Define "average gun owner" because there is no room for apathy in that, whereby such impotence need not apply, and when it does, by default alone, does not make for the average gun owner.

Being nice, and coddling, and extending patience to apathetic gun owners or those who don't join the NRA is no longer working. I've provided that patience that for 25 years, no more. That approach is no longer tenable.

I have total tolerance, acceptance, even support for matters of race, religion (or lack thereof), gender, sexual preference, gender identity, political affiliation, financial status, innocent ignorance, even of those who suffer afflictions that have been brought unto themselves by bad choices so long as none of these are used as excuses or a crutch for entitlement.

However, I have NO PATIENCE for apathy or the ignorance born from it, especially where there has been so much on the table to eschew such ignorance; within that context, it is not innocent ignorance, it is criminal ignorance.

No patience for that, none.

We herd sheep, we drive cattle, we lead people. Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way. - George S. Patton Jr.



.

Last edited by CALI-gula; 02-17-2018 at 11:37 AM..
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  #29  
Old 02-17-2018, 3:25 PM
Battosai1 Battosai1 is offline
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Originally Posted by cire raeb View Post
He said they delayed his shipment for improper ORD paperwork. I assume that is the queue for it to be shipped only to an FFL, which he is not. He was clueless when I mentioned the new law that went into effect to him.


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next time you see your 'friend' tell him a Calgunner told you to tell him, "Your a ****ing idiot."
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  #30  
Old 02-18-2018, 12:04 PM
cire raeb cire raeb is online now
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Originally Posted by Battosai1 View Post
next time you see your 'friend' tell him a Calgunner told you to tell him, "Your a ****ing idiot."


I am going to tell him and I am pretty his replied to you will be “go eat your own d**k.” You must have a lot on your hand to be condescendingly posting comments of no value in this forum.


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