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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 02-16-2018, 2:02 PM
SmokeTheClay SmokeTheClay is offline
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Default New Forum or list on stats and links to debate anti-gun people

With the mass shootings, I am hearing more and more people at work, friends, colleagues, facebook, etc arguing for anti-gun laws. I think it would be helpful if we had a sub forum or some type of database with data we can cite to debate the arguments. I feel like whenever there is a new shooting (such as Florida) I see posts all over facebook and people talking about gun legislation...but I end up having to google every time for data. It would be nice to have a repository to just grab good data or articles to show people.

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 02-16-2018, 2:59 PM
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While I would appreciate such info to me the first thing is ask them what they would do. And demand specifics.

Taking guns has problems with the 2nd Amendment.

Chasing down every reported threat would require more manpower than anyone could pay for.

Reporting on people has bigger ramifications than just gun threats.

We have no technology like that in Minority Report.

Hindsight is 20-20
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Old 02-16-2018, 3:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marauder2003 View Post
While I would appreciate such info to me the first thing is ask them what they would do. And demand specifics.

Taking guns has problems with the 2nd Amendment.

Chasing down every reported threat would require more manpower than anyone could pay for.

Reporting on people has bigger ramifications than just gun threats.

We have no technology like that in Minority Report.

Hindsight is 20-20
People don't care about the 2nd amendment. And the 2nd amendment only stands as long as Supreme Court Justices rule in its favor. If people vote in presidents that appoint anti-gun Supreme Court justices, then the 2nd amendment will be useless.
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Old 02-16-2018, 3:39 PM
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Many people cannot be convinced by facts.

See also 'More statistics, less persuasion'
Quote:
As they do when they are evaluating empirical evidence of environmental and other types of risks, individuals can be expected to credit or dismiss empirical evidence on "gun control risks" depending on whether it coheres or conflicts with their cultural values.
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There is no value at all complaining or analyzing or reading tea leaves to decide what these bills really mean or actually do; any bill with a chance to pass will be bad for gun owners.

The details only count after the Governor signs the bills.

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Old 02-16-2018, 4:00 PM
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Not only is there the "facts don't matter" mentality among people who feel about gun control, but the mainstream media is outright hostile to any fair representation of the issue. We do know that our side will never get a fair shot at arguing our side and that there is little point in trying to make it happen.

Just remember how Katie Couric outright lied (via editing) in her documentary without any consequences. She edited pause and confusion as "answer" given by the group, when they immediately gave her facts and refuted her argument.

There was also a segment years ago by Barbara Walters where she was concluding that guns cannot be used in self defense by running "an experiment" where a student with no gun experience is placed in a classroom that is then stormed by police officers who know exactly which student has the gun and where he is, so they can run in and "shoot him" before he finishes fumbling with the gun he doesn't know how to draw.

A recent "60 minutes" segment invited activist women gun owners to present their point of view, then they completely cut it pretending that they cancelled. The reason? They made too much sense.

We are way past the point of arguing and trying to please others. We are at the point where we are fighting a very dirty war.
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  #6  
Old 02-16-2018, 7:15 PM
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You might point them to the case law which says that the police have no duty or obligation to protect you as an individual.
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Old 02-16-2018, 7:49 PM
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People are generally jazzed up / triggered because of Trump, this is just the flavor of the month. Most of those people will move on to the next republican thing they hate next month.
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Old 02-17-2018, 7:35 AM
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Guns do not cause mass shootings like cars do not cause drunk driving. Apples and Oranges you retort. Ok, the 2nd Amendment doesn’t apply to cars.
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Old 02-17-2018, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Many people cannot be convinced by facts.

See also 'More statistics, less persuasion'
I'm a little over half way through this. Thus far, its pretty amazing info.

Whether one is hierarchical or egalitarian, individualistic or
solidaristic, also matters more than whether one is Republican or
Democrat, conservative or liberal. According to the regression
analysis, the cultural orientation variables, when combined, have
well over four times as large an impact on gun control attitudes as
does either party identity or political orientation. This finding is important
because it demonstrates that cultural orientations are ultimately
not reducible to conventional political ideologies, which
have been found to be relatively weak predictors of gun control attitudes relative to other variables, including beliefs in the instrumental
efficacy of gun control.


If true, this means it is NOT a waste of time trying to bring liberals/democrats over to vote for Republican pro-gun candidates.

Additionally, by pinpointing how someone thinks (IE: hierarchical or egalitarian, individualistic or solidaristic) it can be estimated if it is worth time discussing the topic. Even more so, citing this stat can be useful in pointing out the reason someone feels the way they do and can be explained to them why they may feel the way they feel.
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  #10  
Old 02-17-2018, 11:45 AM
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I saw a headline recently that read as: "There can be no discussion about guns and gun ownership, until liberals stop lying about guns and gun ownership".

That just about sums it up.

.
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Old 02-17-2018, 11:51 AM
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While I'm sure it will never sway someone that is irrational and illogical these are some of my favorites starting with the newest:

https://allenwest.americanewscentral...ral-narrative/

http://thefederalist.com/2017/06/23/...ifferent-game/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...975_story.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoAFOHbicqE

http://www.guncite.com/
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Old 02-17-2018, 1:42 PM
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Juicy CDC and Obama funded study which the media wants to ignore.
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Old 02-17-2018, 1:59 PM
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Leftists- cannot be convinced by facts.

That's not the way they roll.
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Old 02-17-2018, 4:16 PM
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Just came across this site that has all the statistics you are looking for.

http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control...ncealed-carry/
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Old 02-17-2018, 4:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugly Hombre View Post
Leftists- cannot be convinced by facts.

That's not the way they roll.
How very helpful. OP wants information to help people troubled by tragedies reason thru this stuff without just jumping to the "guns are bad" conclusion. Your solution is apparently to tell them that gun owners are also narrowminded.

OP, the facts game is quite problematic. Both sides have their own sets of facts. Figuring out real truth from that is hard, and making it convincing is even harder.
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Old 02-17-2018, 9:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhyla View Post
How very helpful. OP wants information to help people troubled by tragedies reason thru this stuff without just jumping to the "guns are bad" conclusion. Your solution is apparently to tell them that gun owners are also narrowminded.

OP, the facts game is quite problematic. Both sides have their own sets of facts. Figuring out real truth from that is hard, and making it convincing is even harder.
Gun ownership has been heavily researched, there is objective fact w.r.t guns and gun ownership. For example, gun ownership has no relationship to crime, it's been researched heavily .. However , turn on the TV, you hear "more guns equals more crime" which is false.

There are facts, and almost all the facts are pro gun. The CDC study I quoted is objective fact imo.
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Old 02-17-2018, 9:05 PM
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John Lott’s work has all the studies, stats summary arguments you need:

https://crimeresearch.org

But , as has been remarked , the antis don’t care. They want your guns and will do anything necessary to take them from you. And if you read the commentary from these Leftist media thugs and their supporters on the inter webs after this latest incident, I mean anything.

If ALL of you here can’t finally realize this, and let that realization drive all of your gun ownership related decisions and actions, you are lost.

The time for discussion and arguments is long over. Their pretense has been unmasked for many years now and quit denying it for what it truly is. That’s what our side habitually does wrong: grant them sanction to even have an argument when what they truly desire is to enslave you. The ‘common sense’ compromise they want is to see us all surrender to, or dead and gone from, their Utopian Empire.
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Old 02-17-2018, 10:39 PM
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***"But , as has been remarked , the antis don’t care. They want your guns and will do anything necessary to take them from you. And if you read the commentary from these Leftist media thugs and their supporters on the inter webs after this latest incident, I mean anything.

If ALL of you here can’t finally realize this, and let that realization drive all of your gun ownership related decisions and actions, you are lost.

"The time for discussion and arguments is long over. Their pretense has been unmasked for many years now and quit denying it for what it truly is. That’s what our side habitually does wrong: grant them sanction to even have an argument when what they truly desire is to enslave you. The ‘common sense’ compromise they want is to see us all surrender to, or dead and gone from, their Utopian Empire"***

QFT, They are not interested in stopping crime just control- they do not give a damn about anything but political power.

Period.

"Your solution is apparently to tell them that gun owners are also narrow minded."

What?

The facts are in on guns and crime- as a leftist you know this. Link after link on this thread has cited fact filled sites that debunk the Anti 2nd, New Democrat prog/comm.- view point on guns. If you and your comrades, can't read, study and find out the truth and be convinced by facts- I can't help you.

They are either ruled by emotion and are hoplophobes, not subject to reason.

Or they are invested in disarming the American public for political control

Thanks for making my point so evident.

Last edited by Ugly Hombre; 02-17-2018 at 11:19 PM..
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Old 02-18-2018, 1:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn View Post
John Lott’s work has all the studies, stats summary arguments you need:

https://crimeresearch.org

But , as has been remarked , the antis don’t care. They want your guns and will do anything necessary to take them from you...
Lott was on one of the FOX News shows the other night, set against an anti-gun advocate. The anti-gun advocate was pushing the statistic that there have been 18 school shootings this year alone; even though that stat was thoroughly debunked by The Washington Post.

Lott, who has posted his own piece on that statistic, tried to point out the problems with that statistic and the anti-gun proponent wouldn't let him complete a sentence; almost shouting that Lott's 'evidence,' which he wouldn't even let Lott present, was a "LIE!!!"

Lott just calmly, and a bit resignedly, shook his head.
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Old 02-18-2018, 7:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abinsinia View Post
Gun ownership has been heavily researched, there is objective fact w.r.t guns and gun ownership. For example, gun ownership has no relationship to crime, it's been researched heavily .. However , turn on the TV, you hear "more guns equals more crime" which is false.

There are facts, and almost all the facts are pro gun. The CDC study I quoted is objective fact imo.
The anti-gun crowd will tout with equal confidence studies that support their viewpoint as also objective fact. Nobody is objective around this issue. None of us would see compelling evidence and change our mind. Very few of us are qualified to evaluate and compare statistical studies.

We need to admit our bias is equal to their bias and work a little harder at understanding the other side’s concerns and rationale, instead of writing them off as emotional fools with no factual basis. In other words, grow up.
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Old 02-18-2018, 8:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhyla View Post
The anti-gun crowd will tout with equal confidence studies that support their viewpoint as also objective fact. Nobody is objective around this issue. None of us would see compelling evidence and change our mind. Very few of us are qualified to evaluate and compare statistical studies.
.
It seems you either didn't read the study I linked, or you don't understand what it is or means. The CDC and Obama paid for the study, and the study was conducted by the National Research Council. The NRC advises congress, and it rarely makes a determination because it's so careful in it's findings.

That study shows objective fact, there is no discussion on that point. The fact that you think it doesn't shows your bias against guns.
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Old 02-18-2018, 8:14 AM
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You cannot cure mental illness by banning all firearms. It is not normal human behavior to engage in a mass shooting. The Florida shooter was on psychotropic drugs as reported by Worldnews Daily. Exactly the same as virtually all other mass shooters of schools, church's, etc.
Since big Pharma is a major advertiser on the networks don't hold your breath waiting for them to broadcast this. Furthermore, most of the politicians are being supported by big Pharma.
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Old 02-18-2018, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abinsinia View Post
It seems you either didn't read the study I linked, or you don't understand what it is or means. The CDC and Obama paid for the study, and the study was conducted by the National Research Council. The NRC advises congress, and it rarely makes a determination because it's so careful in it's findings.[/B]
No, I haven’t read the 100 page publication. But it’s on my todo list. I’m always happy to see good evidence in our favor.

You think this is objective fact. And their findings may be both true and compelling. I’m just saying the other side can whip out evidence they find equally true and compelling. It’s just part of being human and having strong feelings about a very complicated issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abinsinia View Post
That study shows objective fact, there is no discussion on that point. The fact that you think it doesn't shows your bias against guns.
I have an awful lot of guns for someone biased against them. Why can’t people disagree around here without accusing the other person of being anti gun? It’s literally the dumbest thing to do on a gun forum.

The reality is even if we would hypothetically be slightly better off without guns we still wouldn’t want to. There’s good (prophylactic against tyrants) and bad (guns are cool) reasons for that. The facts aren’t going to sway us if they aren’t in our favor.

Likewise, some people are super uncomfortable with civilians being armed. Data showing they’re slightly better off if their neighbors are armed won’t convince them, especially when faced with a school shooting.
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Old 02-18-2018, 3:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhyla View Post
Likewise, some people are super uncomfortable with civilians being armed. Data showing they’re slightly better off if their neighbors are armed won’t convince them, especially when faced with a school shooting.
People that are uncomfortable with civilians being armed literally have no idea that there are many people carrying all around them, both legally and illegally. Even data showing that people with concealed carry permits are an order of magnitude less likely to commit violent crimes than members of law enforcement will not convince them. They are projecting their inability to rationally deal with confrontation onto others.
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Old 02-18-2018, 4:30 PM
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I always feel safer and more comfortable in Constitutional carry states.
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Old 02-18-2018, 6:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhyla View Post
The anti-gun crowd will tout with equal confidence studies that support their viewpoint as also objective fact. Nobody is objective around this issue. None of us would see compelling evidence and change our mind. Very few of us are qualified to evaluate and compare statistical studies.

We need to admit our bias is equal to their bias and work a little harder at understanding the other side’s concerns and rationale, instead of writing them off as emotional fools with no factual basis. In other words, grow up.
Can you post links to all of these "Fact Based" studies that support
Gun Control ?


Noble
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Old 02-18-2018, 6:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
Can you post links to all of these "Fact Based" studies that support
Gun Control ?


Noble

Please


X2
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Old 02-20-2018, 9:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Ford8N View Post
Please


X2
*crickets*
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Old 02-20-2018, 9:54 AM
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Look at their claim as to what a so-called a-salt weapon is, that is proof that reality does not apply to them. Then look at their making gun free zones, which kill people, and their trying to ban things because criminals take advantage of what they did and try to ban a version of a semi-auto rifle that functions the same as any other, but it is bad because it does not have a wood stock.
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Old 02-20-2018, 5:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abinsinia View Post
*crickets*
Sorry, I forgot about this thread. I don’t have time to hunt down the more plausible arguments/studies on the other side. I imagine most of them are fairly well debunked in the Gun Facts publication.
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Old 02-20-2018, 9:10 PM
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I copied this out of the comments section of a anti-gun blog post form the 15th, I thought it spelled out the crux of the arguments I hear most often in a very succinct way.

We don’t kill “33,000” people per year. The overwhelming majority of gun deaths in the US are by suicide. The anti-gun staticis dont generally like to point that out though. I’m happy to break it down for you though.

There are 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, and this number is not disputed. The U.S. population is 324,059,091 as of June 22, 2016. Do the math: 0.000000925% of the population dies from gun related actions each year. Statistically speaking, this is insignificant. What is never shown, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths, to put them in perspective as compared to other causes of death:
• 65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws.
• 15% are by law enforcement in the line of duty and justified.
• 17% are through criminal activity, gang and drug related or mentally ill persons – better known as gun violence.
• 3% are accidental discharge deaths. So technically, “gun violence” is not 30,000 annually, but drops to 5,100. Still too many? Now lets look at how those deaths spanned across the nation.
• 480 homicides (9.4%) were in Chicago
• 344 homicides (6.7%) were in Baltimore
• 333 homicides (6.5%) were in Detroit
• 119 homicides (2.3%) were in Washington D.C. (a 54% increase over prior years)

So basically, 25% of all gun crime happens in just 4 cities. All 4 of those cities have strict gun laws, so it is not the lack of law that is the root cause.

This basically leaves 3,825 for the entire rest of the nation, or about 75 deaths per state. That is an average because some States have much higher rates than others. For example, California had 1,169 and Alabama had 1.
Now, who has the strictest gun laws by far? California, of course, but understand, it is not guns causing this. It is a crime rate spawned by the number of criminal persons residing in those cities and states. So if all cities and states are not created equal, then there must be something other than the tool causing the gun deaths.

Are 5,100 deaths per year horrific? How about in comparison to other deaths? All death is sad and especially so when it is in the commission of a crime but that is the nature of crime. Robbery, death, rape, assault are all done by criminals. It is ludicrous to think that criminals will obey laws. That is why they are called criminals.

What about other deaths each year?
• 40,000+ die from a drug overdose–THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THAT!
• 36,000 people die per year from the flu, far exceeding the criminal gun deaths.
• 34,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities(exceeding gun deaths even if you include suicide).
• 200,000+ people die each year (and growing) from preventable medical errors. You are safer walking in the worst areas of Chicago than you are when you are in a hospital!
• 710,000 people die per year from heart disease.

In a nut shell, US gun violence is overwhelmingly limited to a few select areas of the country, and to a certain segment of those areas, and even then it’s not as bad as some would have you believe. Sure, occasionally you get a mass shooting tragedy that is horrible and pulls on the emotions of the entire country to the point that all anyone can do is scream for a ban on something, but you’re more likely to be struck and killed by lightning than be caught up in a mass shooting, and unless you hang out with seedy people or in seedy parts, you’ll probably go your entire life without ever having a gun pointed at you.
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Old 02-20-2018, 9:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zhyla View Post
Sorry, I forgot about this thread. I don’t have time to hunt down the more plausible arguments/studies on the other side. I imagine most of them are fairly well debunked in the Gun Facts publication.
Well, Imagine my surprise, you've got nothing.

So Now your saying they don't exist, or you can't find them, after telling us
to "grow up", and Blindly accept the other sides arguments,
when the "other sides" arguments consists of half-truths, cherry picking,
out of context comparisons, and outright lies ?

And you expect US to "Grow Up" ?

I am willing to listen to the other sides arguments, but that doesn't mean
I give up my right criticize or debunk their incorrect statements.


Having read hundreds, if not thousands of articles / studies on Gun Control,
I have yet to read one Advocating for Gun Control that was Honest.


Noble
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Old 02-20-2018, 9:46 PM
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Originally Posted by DMJ View Post
I copied this out of the comments section of a anti-gun blog post form the 15th, I thought it spelled out the crux of the arguments I hear most often in a very succinct way.

We don’t kill “33,000” people per year. The overwhelming majority of gun deaths in the US are by suicide. The anti-gun staticis dont generally like to point that out though. I’m happy to break it down for you though.

There are 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, and this number is not disputed. The U.S. population is 324,059,091 as of June 22, 2016. Do the math: 0.000000925% of the population dies from gun related actions each year. Statistically speaking, this is insignificant. What is never shown, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths, to put them in perspective as compared to other causes of death:
• 65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws.
• 15% are by law enforcement in the line of duty and justified.
• 17% are through criminal activity, gang and drug related or mentally ill persons – better known as gun violence.
• 3% are accidental discharge deaths. So technically, “gun violence” is not 30,000 annually, but drops to 5,100. Still too many? Now lets look at how those deaths spanned across the nation.
• 480 homicides (9.4%) were in Chicago
• 344 homicides (6.7%) were in Baltimore
• 333 homicides (6.5%) were in Detroit
• 119 homicides (2.3%) were in Washington D.C. (a 54% increase over prior years)

So basically, 25% of all gun crime happens in just 4 cities. All 4 of those cities have strict gun laws, so it is not the lack of law that is the root cause.

This basically leaves 3,825 for the entire rest of the nation, or about 75 deaths per state. That is an average because some States have much higher rates than others. For example, California had 1,169 and Alabama had 1.
Now, who has the strictest gun laws by far? California, of course, but understand, it is not guns causing this. It is a crime rate spawned by the number of criminal persons residing in those cities and states. So if all cities and states are not created equal, then there must be something other than the tool causing the gun deaths.

Are 5,100 deaths per year horrific? How about in comparison to other deaths? All death is sad and especially so when it is in the commission of a crime but that is the nature of crime. Robbery, death, rape, assault are all done by criminals. It is ludicrous to think that criminals will obey laws. That is why they are called criminals.

What about other deaths each year?
• 40,000+ die from a drug overdose–THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THAT!
• 36,000 people die per year from the flu, far exceeding the criminal gun deaths.
• 34,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities(exceeding gun deaths even if you include suicide).
• 200,000+ people die each year (and growing) from preventable medical errors. You are safer walking in the worst areas of Chicago than you are when you are in a hospital!
• 710,000 people die per year from heart disease.

In a nut shell, US gun violence is overwhelmingly limited to a few select areas of the country, and to a certain segment of those areas, and even then it’s not as bad as some would have you believe. Sure, occasionally you get a mass shooting tragedy that is horrible and pulls on the emotions of the entire country to the point that all anyone can do is scream for a ban on something, but you’re more likely to be struck and killed by lightning than be caught up in a mass shooting, and unless you hang out with seedy people or in seedy parts, you’ll probably go your entire life without ever having a gun pointed at you.
Be careful of random info on the internet.

In the section "Do the Math" the answer is wrong, should be .00925757

Could just be a typo, but still accuracy is a must.

It does not detract from the point that statistically it is not a significant
number, especially when compared to others. Don't have time to review
the other numbers tonight.


Noble
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  #34  
Old 02-21-2018, 4:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMJ View Post
I copied this out of the comments section of a anti-gun blog post form the 15th, I thought it spelled out the crux of the arguments I hear most often in a very succinct way.

We don’t kill “33,000” people per year. The overwhelming majority of gun deaths in the US are by suicide. The anti-gun staticis dont generally like to point that out though. I’m happy to break it down for you though.

There are 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, and this number is not disputed. The U.S. population is 324,059,091 as of June 22, 2016. Do the math: 0.000000925% of the population dies from gun related actions each year. Statistically speaking, this is insignificant. What is never shown, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths, to put them in perspective as compared to other causes of death:
• 65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws.
• 15% are by law enforcement in the line of duty and justified.
• 17% are through criminal activity, gang and drug related or mentally ill persons – better known as gun violence.
• 3% are accidental discharge deaths. So technically, “gun violence” is not 30,000 annually, but drops to 5,100. Still too many? Now lets look at how those deaths spanned across the nation.
• 480 homicides (9.4%) were in Chicago
• 344 homicides (6.7%) were in Baltimore
• 333 homicides (6.5%) were in Detroit
• 119 homicides (2.3%) were in Washington D.C. (a 54% increase over prior years)

So basically, 25% of all gun crime happens in just 4 cities. All 4 of those cities have strict gun laws, so it is not the lack of law that is the root cause.

This basically leaves 3,825 for the entire rest of the nation, or about 75 deaths per state. That is an average because some States have much higher rates than others. For example, California had 1,169 and Alabama had 1.
Now, who has the strictest gun laws by far? California, of course, but understand, it is not guns causing this. It is a crime rate spawned by the number of criminal persons residing in those cities and states. So if all cities and states are not created equal, then there must be something other than the tool causing the gun deaths.

Are 5,100 deaths per year horrific? How about in comparison to other deaths? All death is sad and especially so when it is in the commission of a crime but that is the nature of crime. Robbery, death, rape, assault are all done by criminals. It is ludicrous to think that criminals will obey laws. That is why they are called criminals.

What about other deaths each year?
• 40,000+ die from a drug overdose–THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THAT!
• 36,000 people die per year from the flu, far exceeding the criminal gun deaths.
• 34,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities(exceeding gun deaths even if you include suicide).
• 200,000+ people die each year (and growing) from preventable medical errors. You are safer walking in the worst areas of Chicago than you are when you are in a hospital!
• 710,000 people die per year from heart disease.

In a nut shell, US gun violence is overwhelmingly limited to a few select areas of the country, and to a certain segment of those areas, and even then it’s not as bad as some would have you believe. Sure, occasionally you get a mass shooting tragedy that is horrible and pulls on the emotions of the entire country to the point that all anyone can do is scream for a ban on something, but you’re more likely to be struck and killed by lightning than be caught up in a mass shooting, and unless you hang out with seedy people or in seedy parts, you’ll probably go your entire life without ever having a gun pointed at you.

Thanks for the quick run down. This should always be posted on Facebook every time the "30,000 annual gun deaths" is used as a reason for gun control. But I can already see someone scream "racist!" as a response...
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Old 02-21-2018, 5:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMJ View Post
• 15% are by law enforcement in the line of duty and justified.
I wonder a about this part .. I have seen reference to this before, but I've never been able to corroborate this. I believe the FBI statistics put these types of deaths in a different category.
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Old 02-21-2018, 6:54 AM
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Why would you have a discussion of gun control with people with zero moral authority to even make the argument?

Most of the anti gun left, democrats, commies are overwhelmingly PRO ABORTION absolutists. Why would any pro fredom person Even dignify the views of persons who would slaughter the most defenseless?

Rights are G*D given and not up for discussion.

Sooo.........F**k Off!
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  #37  
Old 02-21-2018, 6:56 AM
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PS......the “problem” has never been “assault” weapons.....it’s asshats with weapons
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Old 02-21-2018, 9:55 AM
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Let them vent if it makes them feel better. In another month we will all be back to discussing Russia.
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Old 02-21-2018, 1:07 PM
Ugly Hombre Ugly Hombre is offline
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"Sorry, I forgot about this thread. I don’t have time to hunt down the more plausible arguments/studies on the other side. I imagine most of them are fairly well debunked in the Gun Facts publication."

LOL

Of course they are "debunked" all the left has is lies.

If you don't have the "facts" from the left that you kept saying we had to understand WTH is your point Baby-san?

Last edited by Ugly Hombre; 02-21-2018 at 1:12 PM..
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Old 02-21-2018, 8:51 PM
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No seriously guys, been busing CNC engraving lowers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble Cause View Post
So Now your saying ... Blindly accept the other sides arguments,
Nothing of the sort. I only said that we shouldn't expect that our data will convince people of the other persuasion any more than their data convinces us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugly Hombre View Post
If you don't have the "facts" from the left that you kept saying we had to understand WTH is your point Baby-san?
See above. Man you guys get spun up easy.
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