Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > INTERESTS AND ACTIVITIES > Ammo and Reloading
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Ammo and Reloading Factory Ammunition, Reloading, Components, Load Data and more.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 09-09-2018, 4:02 PM
fguffey fguffey is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 711
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Only if the chamber is cut to match that very specific die.
I said you did not have a clue, I do not have a die that is cut to fit the chamber; I also said you do not understand verifying, If you understood verifying you would know the die is designed to return the case to minimum length/full length size.

To verify a sizing die remove the primer punch/neck sizer plug assemble, after removing the assemble place the head space gage into the die and measure case head protrusion. The case head protrusion should be .130" for a 30/06 sizing die. And then there is another way but I doubt anyone on this forum is aware of the other technique.

F. Guffey
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 09-09-2018, 4:19 PM
J-cat J-cat is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Orange County
Posts: 6,210
iTrader: 57 / 100%
Default

The OP described a specific problem: he can’t close the bolt easily. He needs to bump the shoulder more. He doesn’t need to verify the die. He needs to lube the case correctly and adjust the die down more. This way his shoulder will get bumped more and his bolt will close easily. It’s as simple as that.

Poor lubrication leads to increased sizing force which springs the press frame which pulls the die away from the shell holder when the ram is all the way up. Solution: lube the case with Imperial sizing wax and screw the die down more. He’s almost there. No need for trickery.
__________________
Reloading is not for everyone.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 09-09-2018, 6:55 PM
fguffey fguffey is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 711
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
He needs to bump the shoulder more.
I find it impossible to bump the shoulder back with a die that has full body support.

Quote:
He needs to lube the case correctly and adjust the die down more.
He should adjust the die for sizing, a good start would be to adjust the die down to the shell holder and then make an additional 1/4 turn after contact. Some find it necessary to make an additions 1/4 turn; that would be an additional .034" after contact.

If after making the adjustment is made and the reloaders finds the die did not make it to the shell holder there is a chance the case has more resistance to sizing than the press can overcome.

For the toughest and most difficult cases to size I use a no-name lube. Most of the space used on this forum is used by those that have ling chambers and short dies.

F. Guffey
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 09-09-2018, 7:47 PM
J-cat J-cat is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Orange County
Posts: 6,210
iTrader: 57 / 100%
Default

How do you know his die has full support from the shell plate? Maybe, just maybe there is some light shining through?

I find in most of these incidents the case is not lubed correctly. People use home mix concoctions or commercial variants and stick cases in dies they did not season correctly or spring the press until it almost cracks because there is too much resistance in the die.

If this is a new die, season it. If this is spray lube, change it to a wax. If your Dillon die is making full contact with the shell plate with the case inside, and your bolt still closes hard, get a Redding die. But I doubt the die is at fault .
__________________
Reloading is not for everyone.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 09-09-2018, 8:12 PM
smoothy8500's Avatar
smoothy8500 smoothy8500 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,598
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
Most of the space used on this forum is used by those that have long chambers and short dies.

F. Guffey
I have to agree with this one pearl of wisdom here....
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 09-10-2018, 5:02 AM
LynnJr LynnJr is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,047
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
I find it impossible to bump the shoulder back with a die that has full body support.

F. Guffey
I am not at all surprised.

You tend to struggle with simple everyday tasks most reloaders take as second nature.
__________________
Lynn Dragoman, Jr.
Southwest Regional Director
Unlimited Range Shooters Association (URSA)
www.unlimitedrange.org
Not a commercial business.
URSA - Competition starts at 2000 yards!
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 09-13-2018, 6:52 PM
bhilliker@comcast.net bhilliker@comcast.net is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Cameron Park
Posts: 147
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Reading all these post makes me realize how little I know about loading riffle rounds!!
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 09-13-2018, 9:35 PM
smoothy8500's Avatar
smoothy8500 smoothy8500 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,598
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhilliker@comcast.net View Post
Reading all these post makes me realize how little I know about loading riffle rounds!!
Yes, Mr Guffey can be a little esoteric at times...
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 09-14-2018, 1:12 AM
LynnJr LynnJr is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,047
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhilliker@comcast.net View Post
Reading all these post makes me realize how little I know about loading riffle rounds!!
Put Guffey on your ignore list unless you use only factory chambers 70+ years old with antiquated dies.
His advice is like using cod liver oil in a modern engine.
__________________
Lynn Dragoman, Jr.
Southwest Regional Director
Unlimited Range Shooters Association (URSA)
www.unlimitedrange.org
Not a commercial business.
URSA - Competition starts at 2000 yards!
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 09-14-2018, 10:15 PM
TKCastle TKCastle is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 183
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmythebrain View Post
camming over is a thing that the press can or cannot do. Some presses like the Fortser C-Ax, Redding T-7 and Lee Classic Cast O press cannot cam over.
My T-7 has been camming over for years.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 09-18-2018, 6:38 AM
fguffey fguffey is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 711
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
My T-7 has been camming over for years.
I have at least 12 presses that cam over; again, all of my cam over presses are referred to as being bump presses. My bump presses are referred to as being 'bump' presses because the ram bumps the shell holder on the way up and on the way down. AND! I can measure the amount of bump in thousandths.

So I ask how much bump does the T-7 have" I have three RCBS Rock Chucker presses, my Rock Chucker presses do not cam over; my Rock Chuckers lock-up and go into a bind when the linkage jams up. When the linkage locks up the ram is kicked back at the bottom and forward at the top

F. Guffey

Last edited by fguffey; 09-18-2018 at 11:46 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 09-18-2018, 9:52 AM
LynnJr LynnJr is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,047
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Guffey
Reloading isn't for everyone and a man has to know his limitations. Your not helping the original poster solve his issue.
__________________
Lynn Dragoman, Jr.
Southwest Regional Director
Unlimited Range Shooters Association (URSA)
www.unlimitedrange.org
Not a commercial business.
URSA - Competition starts at 2000 yards!
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 09-25-2018, 8:26 AM
Metal God's Avatar
Metal God Metal God is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,485
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Your not helping the original poster solve his issue.
He never does , bad code just a waist of 1's & 0's
__________________
Tolerate
allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.

Anyone else find it sad that those who preach tolerance CAN'T allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that they do not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.

If you have the time check this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04wyGK6k6HE or a picture of Mohamed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VwpwP_fIqY
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 09-25-2018, 9:02 AM
fguffey fguffey is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 711
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
My question is...how much should i cam over?
Helping the OP?

Quote:
He never does , bad code just a waist of 1's & 0's
Again, Reloaders do not have a clue. In the big inning there were two press designs; one press was a bump press and the other was a non-bump press. The difference between the two presses was 'cam over'. The bump press was a cam over press, the non bump press was a non cam over press. Nothing has changed for 69 years, the instructions have remained the same.

80+ years ago a company invented/developed the vise-grip pliers. They did not describe the vise grip pliers as being cam-over pliers they described the design as leaver lock.

Again, I have 3 Rock Chucker presses, 2 of the Rock Chucker presses are attacked to prggy back press attachments. The Piggy Back attachments are auto advance meaning the ram attachments only turn in one directions. I understand that is more than most reloaders can comprehend but if the directions ever reverses the one way clutch is rendered scrap. I also u7nderstand there are reloaders working at RCBS. When I purchased my Piggy back 1 and Piggy back 11 attachments RCBS understood the Rock Chucker could not be allowed to cam over because when it cams over the ram reverses directions. I understand that makes no sense to a reloader on this forum; but if the ram reverses directions the one way clutch will be rendered scarp.

The Rock Chucker does not cam over, it jams up when the linkage foes into a bind. When the press goes into a bind the ram is kicked back at the bottom and forward at the top.

And I understand reloaders do not have a clue because they do not understand the Rock Chucker should not be used without a case in the shell holder. The alignment of the ram in the Rock Chucker depends on a case aligning the die with the ram.

Again, without a case in the shell holder the ram is kicked to the rear at the bottom and forward at the top.

JIC: I have one way clutches for the Piggy Back just in cases one of my clutches is rendered scrap.

F. Guffey
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 09-25-2018, 9:08 AM
fguffey fguffey is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 711
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Quote:
Your not helping the original poster solve his issue.
I am the only reloader that can measure cam over in thousandths. I am the only reloaders that is not a bumper as in "I bump". I am the only reloader that has instructions for bump presses and non bump presses, the instructions for the two presses is different.

And I am the only reloader that has modified a Rock Chucker press to cam over.

F. Guffey
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 09-25-2018, 9:38 AM
J-cat J-cat is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Orange County
Posts: 6,210
iTrader: 57 / 100%
Default

King Kong ain’t got [expletive] on you.
__________________
Reloading is not for everyone.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 09-25-2018, 9:43 AM
fguffey fguffey is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 711
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

To help the OP? The OP must be able to determine if the press he is using is a cam over press or a non cam over press. If he can determine if the press is a cam over press he must be able to determine the amount of cam over.

And then in the middle of all of this is bump. The cam over press bumps when it cams over, it bumps once on the way up and again when the ram changes directions. But we have reloaders that bump everything. Again the non cam over press does not bump; because it is not a bump press.

F. Guffey
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 09-25-2018, 9:50 AM
fguffey fguffey is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 711
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

I have at least 12 cam over presses, The last RCBS cam over press I used was an A2, it had .017" cam over.

F. Guffey
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 09-25-2018, 12:18 PM
fguffey fguffey is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 711
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
I have at least 12 cam over presses, The last RCBS cam over press I used was an A2, it had .017" cam over.
I know; that is too much information for a reloader that belongs in the claims department, reloaders in the claim department claim they are reloaders.

If a press has .017" cam over and the reloader lowers the die an additional 1/4 turn the die will be lowered .034".

F. Guffey
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 09-25-2018, 3:14 PM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 44,309
iTrader: 95 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
I am the only...
LOL.
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 09-25-2018, 3:47 PM
smoothy8500's Avatar
smoothy8500 smoothy8500 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,598
iTrader: 13 / 100%
Default

I think the poor OP got scared off and never came back...
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 09-25-2018, 4:24 PM
fraz fraz is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 157
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default



Most entertaining Mr. Gooffey! Thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 09-26-2018, 6:19 AM
fguffey fguffey is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 711
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy8500 View Post
I think the poor OP got scared off and never came back...
He wanted to know about cam over; I am convened he came to the wrong forum. Most reloaders made the mistake of assuming they knew what he was asking. They make the same mistake when they assume they understand 'bump', case head space, tension and the moving of the shoulder back.

I find it impossible to move the shoulder back with a die that has case body support. Reloaders assume that is what happens when a case is sized; There is only one reloader on this forum that knows his way around the press, die, case and shell holder that understands moving the shoulder back is impossible. But everyday someone in the claims department claims they moved the shoulder back and even funnier when they claim they bump the shoulder back.

And now we have come full circle with bump, again I have bump presses; all of my bump presses are cam over presses. I understand; bump sounds cool.

F. Guffey
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 09-26-2018, 6:59 AM
Metal God's Avatar
Metal God Metal God is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,485
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
I think the poor OP got scared off and never came back...
There's always that one guy that ruins it for the rest of us . I'd like to know if the problem was ever resolved ?
__________________
Tolerate
allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.

Anyone else find it sad that those who preach tolerance CAN'T allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that they do not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.

If you have the time check this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04wyGK6k6HE or a picture of Mohamed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VwpwP_fIqY
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 09-26-2018, 7:18 AM
fguffey fguffey is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 711
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
There's always that one guy that ruins it for the rest of us . I'd like to know if the problem was ever resolved ?
The question was about cam over; to solve a problem and you want to contribute you need to learn to keep your hands to yourself. And it would help if you understood something about reloading. I suggest you start reading and researching in the 50s and 60s.

I have instructions with dated material that goes back to the early 50s about a tool that was developed in the late 30s. The tool is a datum based tool but when the datum concept is used around here members get silly.

F. Guffey
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 09-26-2018, 8:47 AM
J-cat J-cat is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Orange County
Posts: 6,210
iTrader: 57 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
He wanted to know about cam over; I am convened he came to the wrong forum. Most reloaders made the mistake of assuming they knew what he was asking. They make the same mistake when they assume they understand 'bump', case head space, tension and the moving of the shoulder back.

I find it impossible to move the shoulder back with a die that has case body support. Reloaders assume that is what happens when a case is sized; There is only one reloader on this forum that knows his way around the press, die, case and shell holder that understands moving the shoulder back is impossible. But everyday someone in the claims department claims they moved the shoulder back and even funnier when they claim they bump the shoulder back.

And now we have come full circle with bump, again I have bump presses; all of my bump presses are cam over presses. I understand; bump sounds cool.

F. Guffey
The lies you just posed are outrageous.
__________________
Reloading is not for everyone.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 09-26-2018, 9:56 AM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 44,309
iTrader: 95 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-cat View Post
The lies you just posed are outrageous.
He didn't say HE was the one...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
There is only one reloader on this forum that knows his way around the press, die, case and shell holder
I'm pretty sure he's talking about me.

Last edited by ar15barrels; 09-26-2018 at 9:59 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 09-26-2018, 1:13 PM
J-cat J-cat is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Orange County
Posts: 6,210
iTrader: 57 / 100%
Default

OK, you’re right. I’m sorry.
__________________
Reloading is not for everyone.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 09-26-2018, 3:13 PM
ar15barrels's Avatar
ar15barrels ar15barrels is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Van Nuys
Posts: 44,309
iTrader: 95 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-cat View Post
OK, youre right. Im sorry.
It could be you that is THE one too...
It's certainly not him.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 09-26-2018, 4:32 PM
J-cat J-cat is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Orange County
Posts: 6,210
iTrader: 57 / 100%
Default

I do know how to bump a shoulder back the right amount. I do it by sizing a case in a die with a certain height shell holder firmly pressed against the bottom of the die. Interestingly, the case walls are supported by the die and the shoulder is moved back by the amount of my choosing. I have no problem doing it every time I try. Weird.

Maybe the word “extrude” is more appropriate to describe what the die does to the shoulder but the word “bump” has less letters in it.
__________________
Reloading is not for everyone.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 09-26-2018, 9:31 PM
Metal God's Avatar
Metal God Metal God is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,485
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Never mind , deleted
__________________
Tolerate
allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.

Anyone else find it sad that those who preach tolerance CAN'T allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that they do not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.

If you have the time check this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04wyGK6k6HE or a picture of Mohamed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VwpwP_fIqY

Last edited by Metal God; 09-26-2018 at 10:02 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 09-27-2018, 5:32 AM
fguffey fguffey is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 711
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
I do know how to bump a shoulder back the right amount. I do it by sizing a case in a die with a certain height shell holder firmly pressed against the bottom of the die. Interestingly, the case walls are supported by the die and the shoulder is moved back by the amount of my choosing. I have no problem doing it every time I try. Weird.
I have suggested there has to be something about reloading reloaders do not understand. There is nothing I can do about what reloaders assume; it is assumed the shoulder is moved back when the case is sized in a die with case body support. When sizing a case with a die with case body support the shoulder I start with is not the came shoulder I finish with.

I understand reloaders are locked into the forming die and full length sizing die as being two different dies. When I size 30/06 cases to 8MM57 cases the 30/06 shoulder does not move and become the shoulder on the 8MM57 case. The 8MM57 shoulder is formed from the 30/06 case body and shoulder, the neck on the 30/06 becomes part of the case body and shoulder leaving part of the shoulder to become part of the neck.

I understand that is an impossible concept to wrap a mind around but I have scribed the case body/shoulder juncture on 30/06 cases when forming. I have never had one of the scribed junctures move back. My old shoulder is still there but not recognized and the new shoulder is formed from the case body.

F. Guffey
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 09-27-2018, 5:38 AM
fguffey fguffey is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 711
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

And then? Before the Internet I made an attempt to move the shoulder back on cases without case body support. That is something like seating a bullet and over crimping at the same time. Before the Internet Lyman said crimping and seating at the same time could be a bad habit. No one, with one exception, read those old instructions because when the crimp locks the bullet to the neck the neck is shoved down causing the shoulder/case body to bulge, and that brings us back around to the full length sizing die supporting the case body. The seating die does not offer that support.

F. Guffey
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 09-27-2018, 5:56 AM
J-cat J-cat is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Orange County
Posts: 6,210
iTrader: 57 / 100%
Default

I see you don’t understand what I understand. We do understand what we’re doing to the case but we use different terms to describe it. And when we use these terms to describe it everyone with more than half a brain gets it. And the cases chamber and the bolts close. That’s the part you’re missing: the part that we get it. We know. We don’t need you to come in here and mock us with your definitions.
__________________
Reloading is not for everyone.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 09-27-2018, 6:50 AM
fguffey fguffey is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 711
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
We do understand what were doing to the case but we use different terms to describe it.
I certainly do not want to make it any more complicated for you than it already is. To determine if a press cams over it is going to be necessary for a reloader on this forum to push themselves away from the key board. And then there is that other part where I say it is impossible to move the shoulder back with a die that has case body support. There is absolutely no 'two ways' to say I find it impossible to move the shoulder back with a die that has full case body support.



Quote:
We do understand what were doing to the case
If there is any truth to that statement explain to me how you bump and or move the shoulder back? And then there are artifacts, I formed 35 Whelen cases from 30/06 military 43 LC cases. After forming the cases look magnificent but artifacts from the original cases show the cases were blanks before I started forming, before the cases were loaded as blanks they were fired as LC43 cases. During the forming process the cases shortened .035" from the end of the neck to the case head.

F. Guffey
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 09-27-2018, 9:09 AM
J-cat J-cat is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Orange County
Posts: 6,210
iTrader: 57 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fguffey View Post
If there is any truth to that statement explain to me how you bump and or move the shoulder back? And then there are artifacts, I formed 35 Whelen cases from 30/06 military 43 LC cases. After forming the cases look magnificent but artifacts from the original cases show the cases were blanks before I started forming, before the cases were loaded as blanks they were fired as LC43 cases. During the forming process the cases shortened .035" from the end of the neck to the case head.

F. Guffey
By forcing the case into a die whose internal shoulder length is less than that of the case. I understand what you’re getting at, i.e. that the OP’s die is unable to bump the shoulder due to it’s internal dimensions coupled with the shell plate. That the shell plate may be out of spec or the die out of spec, but what I’m suggesting (because I found this to be true) is that proper lubrication will allow the case to slide deeper into the die and expose the case shoulder more for bumping. The OP already said that his bolt is able to close, but with resistance. This tells me his die is doing it’s job but not quite enough, which can be remedied with proper lube.
__________________
Reloading is not for everyone.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 6:39 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.