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  #1  
Old 08-29-2018, 11:22 AM
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Default 1911 EMP

I just bought a brand new EMP from a local gun store.

This past Monday was the first time I had to put rounds into it.

First two magazines ran without issue.

After the 3 rd magazine, the first round keeps failing to feed on all 3 factory magazines. By failure, the slide stops 1/4 of an inch short of chamber ing the round completely.

I tried different brands and types of ammo ( both JHP, FMJ) in Winchester, federal, Barns and seller and Bellot.

After the first 100 rounds through the firearm with this issues, I broke it down cleaned it throughly the relubed and reassembled.

The second 100 rounds were no different.

A couple things of note :

1) If the magazines are loaded with no more then 4 rounds, it will chamber normally with no issue ( tried 6 times).

2) upon the first 100 rounds, I found a wear spot on the left front rail on the reciever side. It wore through the black powder coat(?) to the metal...and only on this rail..the other 3 rails on the reciever did not have this wear.

3) this happened with all three factory mags.


Springfield had me ship it back to them today for inspection and repair...but I am trying to retrace my steps to think I'd there is anything I missed or should have tried?

What do you all think?
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  #2  
Old 08-29-2018, 11:31 AM
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Interested to hear what happens I am considering an EMP and have heard about troubles.
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  #3  
Old 08-29-2018, 11:37 AM
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Lightsider, i head of all the issues too and still bought It. Maybe I'm dumb, but each person I have read about has said that Springfield took care of them and it ended up being flawless.

I hope it ends up the same way.
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  #4  
Old 08-29-2018, 12:24 PM
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Love my EMP but had similar trouble with certain ammo. Problem cleared up after about 500 rounds except it still doesn't like Hornady. When it is back at the Mother Ship ask them to look at your ejector. Many come loose and have to be drilled and pinned. They have great customer service and from the day I shipped it off to the day I got it back was 15 days.

It's a great gun and well worth working the bugs out.
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  #5  
Old 08-29-2018, 12:32 PM
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Default 1911 EMP

Letís start with why the first round is the problem versus why only 4 rounds in the magazine will feed.

If you load 1 round in a 1911 magazine it is supported by the follower, 2 rounds the second round is supported by the first round and NOT the follower. Each round after that tends to have less and less support by the round underneath it creating a large gap at the front of the round between it and the round under it. Donít believe me, go load your magazines and see for yourself. When you then push on the round from the back as if the slide was stripping the round from the magazine the round will nose dive. This is due to lack of support. The 8th round loaded in the magazine will do it far more extreme than the 4th round. When it nose dives like this it has to hit the ramp to be corrected. The steeper the nose dive the more likely itíll hang up.

Now letís talk about the ramp on an EMP. The ramp on an EMP is very steep because of the compact design of the gun. Actually steeper than whatís considered correct, this is common on compacts and smaller guns. Then you have the standard ramp to chamber hard break over edge in factory guns. This can help induce 3 point binds. A 3 point bind is when the round nose hangs up on the top of the chamber, middle bottom hangs up on the break over edge and back top of the case rim on the breach face. This happens because the round canít make the turn into the chamber. It stops the slide from fully closing usually with a round 2/3s of the way into the chamber.

It is caused in these guns because of the combination of break over edge, steep ramp and lack of support in from the magazine and a poorly tuned extractor can also play a partial role.

It does not happen in all guns or all EMPs but it does occur in some guns and if itís common like youíre describing the gun will not break itself in itíll need some work to get it right.

Quick edit: Springfield stopped pinning ejectors to save money. It was a bad idea. So anytime you send your Springfield in have them pin your ejector also. Itís a warranty item and they wonít charge you. Ejectors should be pinned in.


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  #6  
Old 08-29-2018, 12:33 PM
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It's just a tight chamber combined with a steep feed ramp

I'm sure they'll be able to rectify it and return it to you
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  #7  
Old 08-29-2018, 1:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CifaldiPrecision View Post
Letís start with why the first round is the problem versus why only 4 rounds in the magazine will feed.

If you load 1 round in a 1911 magazine it is supported by the follower, 2 rounds the second round is supported by the first round and NOT the follower. Each round after that tends to have less and less support by the round underneath it creating a large gap at the front of the round between it and the round under it. Donít believe me, go load your magazines and see for yourself. When you then push on the round from the back as if the slide was stripping the round from the magazine the round will nose dive. This is due to lack of support. The 8th round loaded in the magazine will do it far more extreme than the 4th round. When it nose dives like this it has to hit the ramp to be corrected. The steeper the nose dive the more likely itíll hang up.

Now letís talk about the ramp on an EMP. The ramp on an EMP is very steep because of the compact design of the gun. Actually steeper than whatís considered correct, this is common on compacts and smaller guns. Then you have the standard ramp to chamber hard break over edge in factory guns. This can help induce 3 point binds. A 3 point bind is when the round nose hangs up on the top of the chamber, middle bottom hangs up on the break over edge and back top of the case rim on the breach face. This happens because the round canít make the turn into the chamber. It stops the slide from fully closing usually with a round 2/3s of the way into the chamber.

It is caused in these guns because of the combination of break over edge, steep ramp and lack of support in from the magazine and a poorly tuned extractor can also play a partial role.

It does not happen in all guns or all EMPs but it does occur in some guns and if itís common like youíre describing the gun will not break itself in itíll need some work to get it right.

Quick edit: Springfield stopped pinning ejectors to save money. It was a bad idea. So anytime you send your Springfield in have them pin your ejector also. Itís a warranty item and they wonít charge you. Ejectors should be pinned in.


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Thank you for that detailed information on this. Everything I had read previously was all about JHP ammo. I was not expecting this hang up to occur with FMJ.

That all said, it makes sense. And like others hve mentioned here and in other forums, it seems Springfield will make it right.

I just emailed Angie at Customer Service and asked them to pin the ejector as well. They should receive it by tomorrow as long as there are no fed ex delays.

Thank you to everyone who has posted thus far. I'll post up the findings and results here when she returns.

The end goal is to make this my primary CCW with my G19 as my back up.
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  #8  
Old 08-29-2018, 2:32 PM
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Is this a 4”or 3” EMP, do they even still make the three inch guns.

My buddy just got the Four inch, shot it a few times no issues. I’m sure SA will make it right and getting your ejector pinned is worth the trip back to them anyway.
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  #9  
Old 08-29-2018, 2:34 PM
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Springfield has very good customer service. Obviously I am a 1911 gun Smith and make my living working on these guns however I always say go to the manufacturer first let them do everything they can and they usually make it right. I think youíll be very happy with the results. Everyone once in awhile the manufacturer cannot figure it out and if thatís the case feel free to give me a call but it always helps to know whatís going on with your gun so you can recognize the problem and describe it better to the manufacturer.


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  #10  
Old 08-29-2018, 3:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormvet View Post
Is this a 4Ēor 3Ē EMP, do they even still make the three inch guns.

My buddy just got the Four inch, shot it a few times no issues. Iím sure SA will make it right and getting your ejector pinned is worth the trip back to them anyway.
It's the 3 inch sir. They still readily make them for sale in CA. I'd hve liked the 4 inch but it was not on roster and I didn't want to shop for one at a higher price.
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Old 08-29-2018, 3:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CifaldiPrecision View Post
Springfield has very good customer service. Obviously I am a 1911 gun Smith and make my living working on these guns however I always say go to the manufacturer first let them do everything they can and they usually make it right. I think youíll be very happy with the results. Everyone once in awhile the manufacturer cannot figure it out and if thatís the case feel free to give me a call but it always helps to know whatís going on with your gun so you can recognize the problem and describe it better to the manufacturer.


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Thank you so much for the offer of assistance. If it becomes an issue where they cannot help will contact you. Much appreciated!
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  #12  
Old 08-29-2018, 3:14 PM
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A question on SA warranty ... do they pay shipping both ways?
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Old 08-29-2018, 3:29 PM
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The only issues I have ever had with mine are.

The rear sight set screw came loose and fell out.

One of the grip screws broke.

Both times SA CS sent me new parts (and extra of each too) without question or fee.

YMMV
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Old 08-29-2018, 3:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lead Waster View Post
A question on SA warranty ... do they pay shipping both ways?
They did for me, including insurance. They email a shipping label and detailed instructions on how to do everything. Very easy. The only thing you need to do is get a box the right size and go to a FedEx office.
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  #15  
Old 08-29-2018, 4:39 PM
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Terrific thread, thank you all. While I don't own an EMP, I do have two Loaded .45s, and the ejector on my Parkerized Loaded came unglued after five years of casual shooting (approx. 5000 rounds). I stripped the frame because I was doing some sear work anyway. I cleaned the area for the ejector and the ejector with brake clean after removing all I could see of the factory glue, then mixed a small dollop of JB Weld and with a toothpick applied as little as I could to re-glue the ejector back in position. I checked the slide-to-frame clearance and the ejector appears to rest in it's original position with no interference to the slide's travel. If it comes loose again, off to Springfield it may go, if it doesn't go to Cifaldi first for a few custom procedures [Edit: non-cosmetic] I have in mind...

I do own a 3" Kimber Ultra CDP II which sees function testing once per season with 25 rounds of Federal HST 230 grain. It is what would be my carry piece could I CCW within L.A. City. Meanwhile it is my belt gun at home. I appreciate the description of the potential problems associated with the very compact design 1911 pattern. I use stainless Kimber compact mags for this gun and have always had reliable function. I change the outer recoil spring annually, but it may be time to replace the inner spring. Again, great thread. Thanks.

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  #16  
Old 08-29-2018, 5:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lead Waster View Post
A question on SA warranty ... do they pay shipping both ways?
Yes they did. They were nice enough to email me a Fed Ex label. I packaged the firearm, boxed it up, then slapped the label on.

Of note: this may be old news, but with fed ex, the firearm hs to be shipped through a fed ex main depot. Fed Ex Kinkos and other franchises will not accept the firearm for delivery.
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Old 08-29-2018, 5:32 PM
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Yes they did. They were nice enough to email me a Fed Ex label. I packaged the firearm, boxed it up, then slapped the label on.



Of note: this may be old news, but with fed ex, the firearm hs to be shipped through a fed ex main depot. Fed Ex Kinkos and other franchises will not accept the firearm for delivery.


You can schedule a pickup with fedex.


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Old 08-29-2018, 5:46 PM
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I had the same issue with mine hey had to fix the feed ramp another issue as well. One being to make sure is that you are not using 115 gr ammo. You have to use 124 and above per Springfield.
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Old 08-29-2018, 7:33 PM
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Default 1911 EMP

Is this ejector pinned?


Last edited by awiner; 08-29-2018 at 7:59 PM..
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Old 08-29-2018, 7:36 PM
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I've had more than one EMP. They both went back to the factory for extraction issues. Both ejectors were pinned wile at the shop. I fixed the extraction issues myself with an over sized firing pin stop. Never had an issue with reliability since for either. Springfield CS is pretty good. The EMP is a great pistol. Very accurate, well designed. When it gets all worked out it may become your favorite gun. Mine run any ammo I feed them. 50 grain Civil Defense to 150 grain HST. My first one had 10K 115 grain reloads through it before I sold it. No issues after it was squared away.

Last edited by Dellinger; 08-29-2018 at 7:49 PM..
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Old 08-29-2018, 7:45 PM
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Quote:
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Is this extractor pinned?

[/IMG]
It doesn't look like it. This is drilled and pinned.

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Old 08-29-2018, 7:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rozwell911 View Post



The end goal is to make this my primary CCW with my G19 as my back up.


Hope you get it back fixed and that it breaks in as expected. A gun with that many issues out the box wouldnít make the cut in my book. Best of luck!
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Old 08-29-2018, 8:07 PM
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It doesn't look like it. This is drilled and pinned.





Thank You. Yes I see where they pin through the slide now. If mine ever had to go in Iíll make sure to ask for it to be pinned too.
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Old 08-29-2018, 8:14 PM
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Hope you get it back and everything works out well for you. The EMP can be a good gun but Springfield has done a lot wrong with it in my opinion, mainly in search of more profit.

Mine went back with less than 100 rounds through it, kept jamming, came back, same issue. Barrel was out of spec so as soon as it got even a little dirt in it - too tight and started jamming / misfeeding.

The ejectors are a known issue, they come loose often. They also break easily, mine broke in under 500 rounds.

Extractors are proprietary and poor quality even though they cost more than Wilson - you guessed it tend to either stretch and loose tension or break.

If you can get all of the problems sorted out and the gun working reliably, its a nice little gun. If you are unlucky enough to get one of the guns from Springfield with multiple issues its a royal pain in the Arse.


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Old 08-30-2018, 4:17 AM
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I bought an Emp and had the same issues, after sending it in it did feed better,however, I would never use this for my CCW. Never risk losing your life with something you know up front doesn't function 99-100% operational. I have a brand new kimbe r custom II on calguns For $600. I guarantee it will feed well right out of the box.
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Old 08-30-2018, 4:37 AM
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Quote:
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Hope you get it back and everything works out well for you. The EMP can be a good gun but Springfield has done a lot wrong with it in my opinion, mainly in search of more profit.

Mine went back with less than 100 rounds through it, kept jamming, came back, same issue. Barrel was out of spec so as soon as it got even a little dirt in it - too tight and started jamming / misfeeding.

The ejectors are a known issue, they come loose often. They also break easily, mine broke in under 500 rounds.

Extractors are proprietary and poor quality even though they cost more than Wilson - you guessed it tend to either stretch and loose tension or break.

If you can get all of the problems sorted out and the gun working reliably, its a nice little gun. If you are unlucky enough to get one of the guns from Springfield with multiple issues its a royal pain in the Arse.


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Even one with multiple issues can easily be fixed to be 100% reliable. Sometimes it just takes more than the manufacturer have the ability to go.


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Old 08-30-2018, 7:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CifaldiPrecision View Post
Even one with multiple issues can easily be fixed to be 100% reliable. Sometimes it just takes more than the manufacturer have the ability to go.


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Exactly

Mine went to a smith after Springfield was unable to make it 100%


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Old 08-30-2018, 7:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rozwell911 View Post
Yes they did. They were nice enough to email me a Fed Ex label. I packaged the firearm, boxed it up, then slapped the label on.

Of note: this may be old news, but with fed ex, the firearm hs to be shipped through a fed ex main depot. Fed Ex Kinkos and other franchises will not accept the firearm for delivery.
when I sent my 9mm 1911 back to springfield, I dropped it off at a local drop off business....
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Old 08-30-2018, 7:46 AM
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Originally Posted by californiakid View Post
I bought an Emp and had the same issues, after sending it in it did feed better,however, I would never use this for my CCW. Never risk losing your life with something you know up front doesn't function 99-100% operational. I have a brand new kimbe r custom II on calguns For $600. I guarantee it will feed well right out of the box.
I have issues with my EMP (and my 9mm loaded)....

I'm not sure that my EMP is trustworthy enough to be carry gun.... which really sucks since that's exactly what it's supposed to be!
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Old 08-30-2018, 8:02 AM
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My new Springfield 1911 mil spec had a poorly cut sear and it would not lock back. Springfield took care of it and paid for everything. It's been perfect ever since and shoots everything I feed it.
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Old 08-30-2018, 6:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CifaldiPrecision View Post
Even one with multiple issues can easily be fixed to be 100% reliable. Sometimes it just takes more than the manufacturer have the ability to go.


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When I get it back from Springfield, if there are still issues or its not to my liking, I will PM or call you to see what we can do. I still have my glock 19 as a ccw so I can spend a little time away from the EMP if need be.

Even if it comes back perfect, I may still inquire with you what you'd recommend to do that Springfield did not accomplish.
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Old 08-30-2018, 7:37 PM
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When I get it back from Springfield, if there are still issues or its not to my liking, I will PM or call you to see what we can do. I still have my glock 19 as a ccw so I can spend a little time away from the EMP if need be.



Even if it comes back perfect, I may still inquire with you what you'd recommend to do that Springfield did not accomplish.

Sounds good.


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  #33  
Old 08-30-2018, 7:37 PM
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Mine was tight as **** for about the first 1000 rounds. Wouldn't RTB reliably with every mag but just kept shooting it and now it's 100%.
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Old 09-05-2018, 6:49 PM
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So tiny update. Springfield received it on Friday but emailed me Tuesday ( as expected). That said, customer service told me they would pass on the request to pin the ejector to the technician, but will only do it if it is deamed needed....so we will see... If they do not I will see if I can push for it.
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Old 09-18-2018, 11:26 AM
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Springfield just called, firearm is finished and will be shipped tomorrow. Delivery ETA is Friday. Here is the brief run down of what they did:

-Pinned extractor
-re cut and repolished the feed ramp
-retest all magazines, fully loaded, for feed issues, and tested them in 9+1 configuration ( I personally requested this because it was difficult to get the magazines in in that configuration)

They did something else but becauae I was at work I couldn't write everything down.

Friday, if it gets here soon enough, I will take it to the rang and give it another quality run through and see if the issues have been resolved. I will post updates as soon as I am completed.
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  #36  
Old 09-18-2018, 11:52 AM
XDJYo XDJYo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rozwell911 View Post
Springfield just called, firearm is finished and will be shipped tomorrow. Delivery ETA is Friday. Here is the brief run down of what they did:

-Pinned extractor
-re cut and repolished the feed ramp
-retest all magazines, fully loaded, for feed issues, and tested them in 9+1 configuration ( I personally requested this because it was difficult to get the magazines in in that configuration)

They did something else but becauae I was at work I couldn't write everything down.

Friday, if it gets here soon enough, I will take it to the rang and give it another quality run through and see if the issues have been resolved. I will post updates as soon as I am completed.


Fantastic! Hopefully youíll have a trouble free gun after this.

I had similar issues with my Les Baer at first. Was weary whether or not LB would truly take care of the issues. So, I sent it off to Rob at Alchemy. Ever since I got it back, itís been 100% reliable with everything from low power to full power 230 grain reloads and factory 230 grain Federal HST jacketed hollow points. 1,300 rounds so far. Will probably burn thru another 200-300 this weekend.

So, hang in there OP.

Happy shooting and be safe.
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Les Baer 1911: Premier II w/1.5" Guarantee, Blued, No FCS, Combat Rear, F/O Front, Checkered MSH & LBC Double Diamond Grips
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  #37  
Old 09-18-2018, 1:21 PM
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CifaldiPrecision CifaldiPrecision is offline
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Glad to hear. Looking forward to follow up.


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  #38  
Old 09-18-2018, 4:43 PM
Rogue2215 Rogue2215 is offline
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Mine was plagued with every known problem you can think of including a stuck mag release. Was really disappointed since this was not a budget piece. My first call to SA they told me to wait at least 300 rounds to break in. Beyond 300 (closer to 400+ rounds) same issues. Sent it back and it came back about 80% better (I asked them to pin the ejector as well which they did). Still working out some kinks at this time. I installed a single sided safety and just a bit lazy to swop back in case SA questions the mod if I were to send it back to them again. Keep in mind that I bought this EMP about 4 years ago. I spent more time on CZ pistols after that so slow in reliability checking the EMP
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  #39  
Old 09-18-2018, 5:07 PM
Dano3467 Dano3467 is offline
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Have one also, sent it back only once 3.5 yrs ago for FTE properly. It also has very slight wear on left rail, but has been completely reliable since coming home. likely 2500 rds now

It never did like Tula brass ammo though (seem a little fat at rim for EMP tight chamber), everything else runs perfect

Don't worry, SA does nice work, you will enjoy it even more when you get her back IMO
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  #40  
Old 09-21-2018, 3:05 PM
rozwell911 rozwell911 is offline
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It was just dropped off! The only bad news is that I do not have time to run to the range today. The closest one to me ( that I frequent and love) is about 40 minutes away in Atwater. With the errands I need to finish ( from waiting all day, I took a day off work) I will have to hit the range tomorrow.

That said I was able to test out a few things at home:

-Magazines load silky smooth now in 9+1 configuration. I never mentioned this part here, but I did to SA, I was having issues loading them like that. Very tough to get the mag to click in. It's fixed no issue.

-all rounds, FMJ and JHP load beautifully. No issues.

-visually confirmed that extractor is pinned. Nice job.

Tomorrow will be rang day. I'd like to put a couple hundred rounds thorough it tomorrow And many more over the court of the next month.

I will provide detailed fees back after range day tomorrow.
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