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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here. |
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#41
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ZT, you are more gracious than I.... and appreciate you taking the time to entertain Paul's hating.
I know a lot of guys with "cool t-shirt" backgrounds that suck as instructors. You'll note that most don't enter the instructor field, despite the tons of people eager to say they trained with someone with Tier 1 Experience. I also know a lot of guys with no background who are great instructors. *** Paul, you are very confused about a lot of things. Your hate has made you drift a bit.... your post is inaccurate and baiting and I don't have time for either this evening. If you have anything to ask about the home study course, feel free to ask. **** Ram, You've got my answers. CFS class is a pre-requisite. It is so for both safety and efficiency. -RJP |
#42
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Unfortunately, the Fundamentals of Combat Focus Shooting course is not offered in SoCal in 2013 prior to the APH in Los Angeles in August 2013. I don't see Jeff Varner or much of anything from 10X Defense any more.
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Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills. - Historian Josephus (AD 37-101) on the Roman military |
#43
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Rob Pincus should be allowed to market his wares just like anyone else no matter if you agree with him or not. Larry Vickers said it best on M4C:
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Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills. - Historian Josephus (AD 37-101) on the Roman military |
#44
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The 20 student thing is an obvious attempt. Paul merely returned accurate and effective fire. Quote:
http://www.vikingcombatives.com/Pers...alifornia.html --edit-- oh wow I guess it was a 2011 schedule, didn't see that. Nevermind! Last edited by GM_77; 12-18-2012 at 8:29 AM.. |
#45
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They currently have no CFS Intro or Fundamentals classes scheduled for SoCal in 2013: http://combatfocusshooting.com/calen...n/3/California Also, that Jeff Varner guy is no longer an active CFS instructor: http://combatfocusshooting.com/instructors
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Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills. - Historian Josephus (AD 37-101) on the Roman military |
#46
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But it's an open question as to which of them are SMEs for the types of self-defense situations most likely to be encountered by civilians, lacking team support or combat load-outs. Certainly that's not a pejorative question or observation, or is it? It's kind of drag-racing vs. F1 vs. NASCAR, isn't it? It doesn't make sense to say that someone who is a respected NASCAR figure can't teach NASCAR, because they never won a drag race. Like it or not, Pincus does indeed have the respect of many important and established authorities in the self-defense training field. If you consider the opinions of people like Mike Seeklander, Mas Ayoob, Claude Werner, etc. to be "worthless", then I leave you to your rarefied sensibilities. What it means in any specific case is open to interpretation. I don't consider myself to be a "defender" of Rob Pincus.I absolutely disagree with some of what he teaches. That's a subject for conversation, research and further study. Rational people don't start feuds over such things. In that respect, you have to admire the professional bearing of someone like LAV concerning these kinds of questions. Nobody is the "all seeing, all knowing" guru on these matters ... not even guys with Tier One military experience. I take issue with baseless bashing and unnecessary drama, however. Maybe a little more mutual (even if grudging) respect and "staying in your own damned lane" is called for.
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| I don't pretend to be an "authority." I'm just a guy who trains a lot, shoots a lot and has a perspective. Check the ZombieTactics Channel on YouTube for all sorts of gun-related goodness CLICK HERE Last edited by ZombieTactics; 12-18-2012 at 11:06 AM.. |
#47
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You don’t have to be the sharpest tool in the shed to realize these skills correlate directly to civilian training classes; covert/concealed carry = civilian concealed carry, diplomatic security = personal defense/defense of family, Low Vis Operations = civilian concealed carry, CQB = Home Defense, etc, etc. Not to forget their adherence to very high accuracy standards in classes verses “Fighting” = “Good Enough” accuracy. If you are forced to defend your home with your family in the next room or forced to defend yourself in a crowded mall do you want to have been trained by one of the world’s finest handgun shooters or a guy who shoots into a berm to avoid showing you he has boringly average weapon skills? Hint #1: The topic of this thread isn’t about a standard how to shoot Handgun or Carbine class. It’s about “Counter-Ambush”. A rather specialized topic if you ask me. Hint #2: I only got involved because I noticed the names being thrown around are friends & business associates of mine. Rest assured they will not be used to sell somebody else’s classes. Hint #3: My statements were spot on. Trust me. I am done with this conversation.
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Paul A. Hotaling Alias Training & Security Services, LLC Paul@aliastraining.com 757-985-9586 www.aliastraining.com Last edited by va_dinger; 12-19-2012 at 11:43 AM.. |
#48
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I believe its a question of credibility. Can an firearm instructor teach without ever seeing combat? Sure of course he can. Could be a good one too. But if that instructor invents or adopts out of the norm techniques or tactics or creates a program that is beyond his knowledge base than anyone has a right to question it. That is fair. I'd rather learn about business from Warren Buffet than the local community college business professor who's never run a business.
As for ZT's coach analogy, I can say Freddy Roach was a lousy boxer and he has trained many a champion, David Ledbetter (to my knowledge) never amounted to much as a golfer but he (at least when I was following golf over a decade ago) was one of the most sought after coaches in golf. All the top players including Tiger (when he was unstoppable) seeked him out. The difference between sport coaches and firearm instructors is night and day. If Tiger or Pac-Man receive poor training or some new invented technique what happens? They lose a large purse, metal, belt, ranking and so on. Ultimately its not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. If one receives poor instructor of some unproven technique in firefight, that is something entirely different. That can cost you or someone around you their life. At minimum it could cost you your financial livelihood or freedom. Therein lies the difference so I don't think the analogy is a good one. Again its credibility, those listed on the this post (Lamb/ defoor/ LAV etc) have it. They have it because of the teams they were on and the combat experience the have under their belt. Does being on a team make a good instructor? Of course not. But link me one bad AAR to this thread on any of those instructors mentioned. I doubt there are many. Also many of those listed have teaching experience whether it was because the wore a green beret (which is one of their main duties teaching guerilla armies) or were a senior instructor on their team or because Tigerswan or Blackwater hired them. I could be wrong but Hackathorn has no combat experience, but I'd train with him. Why? Because he has credibility and as such is endorsed by the likes of LAV and Howe among others. As for pricing, Pincus can demand anything he wants. My comment earlier was mentioned because its out of whack with the marketplace. Imagine if someone was looking to buy a high end car in the $100K range. What would people look at? Benz S class, BMW 7 series, Audi, Lexus, and so on. What if while looking at those cars some one mentioned that KIA had a new luxury car that was $120K. You'd do a double take and say WTF? As for the question whether military combat equates to self defense instruction. that's a legit question. I say yes. Those with military combat experience can teach us civies a thing or two. Obviously, most if not all of us will never take on a guy with a RPG, or have to take cover from a mortar attack. But one thing these guys can tell us is mindset (its the same whether taking on a bunch of drugged out somalies or a whacko breaking into your house). They can tell you what its like to fight through the fear and overcome it. They can tell you about how you'll get tunnel vision and your eyes will poop out of your socket when you get shot at or someone is pointing a gun at you. It goes on. I'm not sure why this question is even asked. Does one actually believe one is getting the "Delta" or "SEAL" or "SF" way when taking a course from these guys? Of course not. The tactics even in an advance course is really not much. Its basic stuff still- how to approach a corner, which knee to take, how to enter a room, etc. Pretty basic stuff for an assaulter. You don't learn about stacking up or flank an enemy's position etc. At least I haven't seen it. When I took a class with Howe he made mention in one instance this is a military scenario, now you can't do that if you're LEO or civie so this is what you have to do if you're those.... Everyone is different and is free to use their money as they see fit but for me I only have so much time and money I can spend on training. I want vetted, combat tested techniques so in the unlikely event I need to use them I will at least be confident I have a good chance of surviving. I do not need any theoretical untested fluff invented by someone who never even tried it in a competition let alone a fight. I don't have Ram's training budget nor he's incredibly impressive ammo budget to just go see for myself. I'll have to rely on reputation and the various AAR throughout the web to see who gets my money. Back to credibility, I'll let these videos speak for themselves: |
#49
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You are welcome to your opinion, and it will be considered as such. When you back it up with something aside from insults, character assassination and unsupported-assertions-presented-as-fact. they will be considered as such in that case also. Perhaps in your role as a promoter it might do you well to first note the difference. Paul, as far as I know you are a good guy running a successful business. I have no idea why you've chosen to insert yourself into a side issue having almost nothing to to do with the nature of your business, or the very excellent people you represent. The vitriol and nastiness is unnecessary and unprovoked. It's enough that you do good work, nothing else is necessary.
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| I don't pretend to be an "authority." I'm just a guy who trains a lot, shoots a lot and has a perspective. Check the ZombieTactics Channel on YouTube for all sorts of gun-related goodness CLICK HERE Last edited by ZombieTactics; 12-18-2012 at 6:10 PM.. |
#50
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So, my full CAT package will take a little longer to get to me due to my Post Office box versus UPS delivery (part of my personal counter ambush if you will to not have physical addresses as much as possible).
I did review Rob's introductory video on his CAT material as far as how it's about concepts, perceptions and awareness plus geared towards teaching you the how and why for CAT. Good explanation and best to watch before purchasing. Quote:
The skeptic in me is having a hard time justifying the $268.61 I paid on Nov. 27th but I'll judge it after completing the course.
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Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills. - Historian Josephus (AD 37-101) on the Roman military |
#51
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Still looking forward to your complete review, Ramin. It will form a big part of my yes/no purchase decision.
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| I don't pretend to be an "authority." I'm just a guy who trains a lot, shoots a lot and has a perspective. Check the ZombieTactics Channel on YouTube for all sorts of gun-related goodness CLICK HERE |
#52
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Paul Hotaling, are you always so obnoxious? What are YOUR qualifications, to be so judgmental about instructors? What military experience or law enforcement experience do you have? From what I can find, you don't have any. You are just a middle man for actual instructors who do have such experience. So please don't attempt to evaluate the abilities of instructors.
I'm sorry, I just couldn't read any more of Paul's rants without dropping the hammer on him. |
#55
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Paul is a good guy, just passionate about his cadre of instructors. You can't fault a person for that. While I don''t ascribe to the "military experience = awesome civilian instructor" credo, (or the notion that only tier one military types are well qualified to teach) you cannot deny that Alias represents excellent instructors.
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| I don't pretend to be an "authority." I'm just a guy who trains a lot, shoots a lot and has a perspective. Check the ZombieTactics Channel on YouTube for all sorts of gun-related goodness CLICK HERE Last edited by ZombieTactics; 12-31-2012 at 9:48 AM.. |
#57
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Sorry dude but I have not. Got the full CA kit over the holidays and then forgot. Thanks for the reminder. I'll get to it this month and will post a review here.
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Their drills are bloodless battles, and their battles bloody drills. - Historian Josephus (AD 37-101) on the Roman military |
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