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Rimfire Firearms .22, .17 and other Rimfire Handguns and Rifles

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  #1  
Old 03-08-2019, 3:39 PM
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Default S&W M&P 15-22 product alert

I saw this posted over on Rim Fire Central, thought the word should be spread. Apparently some 15-22 bolts are shallow in the bolt recess, possibly causing a slam-fire situation. Here's the link to the S&W site:

https://www.smith-wesson.com/mp15-22...r-safety-alert

I have 1,000's of rounds through mine, so not all will be affected, worth checking though.
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Old 03-08-2019, 4:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'ol shooter View Post
I saw this posted over on Rim Fire Central, thought the word should be spread. Apparently some 15-22 bolts are shallow in the bolt recess, possibly causing a slam-fire situation. Here's the link to the S&W site:



https://www.smith-wesson.com/mp15-22...r-safety-alert



I have 1,000's of rounds through mine, so not all will be affected, worth checking though.
Havent had any problems with mine I would assume it would have shown by now? Could be wrong

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  #3  
Old 03-08-2019, 10:14 PM
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Thanks for the heads up 'ol shooter.

Read through the materials and ordered a free S&W M&P 15-22 bolt inspection gauge at:

https://store.smith-wesson.com/m-p-1...spection-gauge

Haven't had any problems personally but will see....

I wonder if this is the same occurrence (out of battery discharge) that caused the probibition at Appleseed about 9/2016?
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Old 03-08-2019, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARFrog View Post
Thanks for the heads up 'ol shooter.

Read through the materials and ordered a free S&W M&P 15-22 bolt inspection gauge at:

https://store.smith-wesson.com/m-p-1...spection-gauge

Haven't had any problems personally but will see....

I wonder if this is the same occurrence (out of battery discharge) that caused the probibition at Appleseed about 9/2016?
Thanks ordered one too. Hopefully they give instructions on what and how to check.

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  #5  
Old 03-08-2019, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chomorro View Post
Thanks ordered one too. Hopefully they give instructions on what and how to check.

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Regarding instructions, go to the original post for the consumer alert in post #1 above. Towards the bottom of the linked page there is a "download inspection manual" link and a "view inspection video" link. It appears the gauge is placed on the end of the bolt when removed from the rifle upper to see if it rests high or low, which determines if there is a problem requiring the bolt to be returned to S&W M&P.
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Old 03-09-2019, 6:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARFrog View Post
....
I wonder if this is the same occurrence (out of battery discharge) that caused the probibition at Appleseed about 9/2016?
That is one of the problems that led to the ban. Others being firing with safeties on, firing on trigger reset, extractors flying out, hammer and trigger pins walking out, and going full auto without touching the trigger.

https://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=50312.0
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Old 03-09-2019, 6:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lomshek
I got a question about the M&P 15-22 still being banned at Appleseed. The timing was fortuitous as I’d just been digging deeper on it and found some additional info on why that probably won’t change.

While other .22’s have had their share of random issues the M&P 15-22 has had a lot of verified serious safety issues that convinced the Appleseed Oversight Committee (AOC) to take the action they did to ban it.

Here’s a quick rundown of the problems…
1- Out of battery discharges. Lots of .22 rifles can fire out of battery if circumstances are just right but the M&P 15-22 has an excessively large number of occasions of this happening at Appleseeds. That large number of occurrences suggests an issue that goes beyond the usual problems of a blowback .22LR action’s vulnerabilities.

In one incident a participant was injured when the M&P 15-22 beside her fired out of battery and fragments of the case penetrated deeply enough into her arm to require minor surgery to remove it.
(Safety concerns are one reason I’m a fan of rotating firing lines vs. packing the lines with people inches from each other.)

Here’s a YouTube video where a person shows it will fire when the bolt is a dime’s thickness out of battery. Most .22 designs prevent the hammer from hitting the firing pin when the bolt moves back that far.
https://youtu.be/gRi_J0BP35w

Here are a number of other videos Appleseed has compiled of occasions that made their way to YouTube about M&P 15-22s firing out of battery.
https://youtu.be/rVfNN4dzx6k
https://youtu.be/szAz5RVNXPw
https://youtu.be/KwM6AxFthcY

2- Firing with the safety on safe. A number of cases of the rifle firing with the safety on in unmodified rifles (all factory OEM parts) suggests a lot of out of spec parts or improper fire control group hole spacing.
https://youtu.be/QvTFlNPEPso

3- Hammer and trigger pins walking out. The AR-15 trigger and hammer pins are designed to be retained by a J spring in the middle of the hammer (hammer pin) and the legs of the hammer spring (trigger pin). The springs engage grooves machined in the pins so that both pins are trapped by spring tension.

There have been multiple reports of runaway M&P 15-22s where they fire full auto without the finger touching the trigger. The cause has been traced back to hammer or trigger pins walking out of their holes in the receiver. That allows the hammer or trigger to tip and move freely without the trigger or disconnector stopping it.

This would suggest that the M&P 15-22 pins and springs are not engaging properly creating an extremely unsafe condition. You can imagine the fun of a rifle emptying it’s 30 round magazine when you chamber a round in whatever direction the barrel happens to be pointing at that moment.
https://youtu.be/iJ50bNgFntg

As you know anecdotal stories is not the same thing as data but enough individual events begin to tell a story of a serious problem with the M&P 15-22. After reading all these stories and watching the videos I'm convinced Appleseed did the right thing.

Based on S&W’s ducking of the issue the ban is expected to remain in place. As long as their attitude is “Problem? What problem?” no progress can be made. If that changes Appleseed will let us know.
https://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index....seen#msg364637
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  #8  
Old 03-09-2019, 7:37 AM
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Thanks for posting this OP.
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Old 03-09-2019, 11:03 AM
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glad I built an AR15 with a 22lr upper instead now
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Old 03-09-2019, 12:09 PM
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Thanks for the heads-up.
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  #11  
Old 03-10-2019, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARFrog View Post
Thanks for the heads up 'ol shooter.

Read through the materials and ordered a free S&W M&P 15-22 bolt inspection gauge at:

https://store.smith-wesson.com/m-p-1...spection-gauge
Thanks for posting that. I just ordered one, have two 15-22s that have never exhibited symptoms, but I'll check anyway. Worth every dime at that price!
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  #12  
Old 03-10-2019, 1:48 PM
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Default M&P 15-22 Safety Alert

In case someone hasn't seen this Safety Alert yet. I didn't see this posted, if it has been posted mods can delete. I didn't know about this Safety Alert until I seen it on the internet and I have one of these. I already ordered the gauge to check my bolt.

I see I wasn't the first to post this. Thanks mods for moving it.

http://concealednation.org/2019/03/s...-mp15-22-line/

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Last edited by CaliTrav; 03-10-2019 at 4:35 PM..
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Old 03-12-2019, 4:05 PM
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I got one coming Thanks for posting this. I don't remember this happening while dropping the bolt but my son says it did slam fire once while shooting in between shots. He said it happened with Grandpa lol. I wonder why they just don't tell you what the depth should measure? I know not everyone has the tools but I do and can save them the expense. We will see what they say, regardless good on them for offering the free gauge to check.
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  #14  
Old 03-15-2019, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'ol shooter View Post
I saw this posted over on Rim Fire Central, thought the word should be spread. Apparently some 15-22 bolts are shallow in the bolt recess, possibly causing a slam-fire situation...
Thank you, 'ol shooter. You've done a good deed. Gauge ordered.
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Old 03-15-2019, 4:46 PM
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I have experienced this on my first gen, early model 15-22. I bought mine in early 2010 I think. When they very first came out.
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Old 03-21-2019, 9:18 AM
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Just ordered my gauge. Have had the rifle for about a year and have yet to shoot it.
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Old 03-22-2019, 5:24 PM
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Here's what they send you

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  #18  
Old 03-22-2019, 9:04 PM
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Got my free bolt gauge from S&W today - about 14 days from order to receipt.

The ledge that the bolt gauge sits on is not large so it is a rather inexact science to put it in place and keep it level. Additionally, it appears that my gauge reads slightly high with the labeled/stamped side up and slightly less high on the non labeled side.

image.jpg

Either way I guess I will be contacting S&W to see about sending them the bolt even though I have had no previous issues.
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Old 03-22-2019, 9:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teachu2 View Post
Thanks for posting that. I just ordered one, have two 15-22s that have never exhibited symptoms, but I'll check anyway. Worth every dime at that price!
Showed up in today's mail. Will try it out tomorrow.
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