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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
View Poll Results: How much would you pay for Law Enforcement Credentials | |||
$0 I don't want them at any price | 398 | 15.56% | |
$100 | 316 | 12.35% | |
$500 | 748 | 29.24% | |
$1000 | 530 | 20.72% | |
$1500 | 103 | 4.03% | |
$2000 | 211 | 8.25% | |
$5000 | 133 | 5.20% | |
$10000 | 50 | 1.95% | |
$Whatever it takes I'll take out a second mortgage | 69 | 2.70% | |
Voters: 2558. You may not vote on this poll |
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#2401
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There is nothing preventing certification of someone who lives in another state, especially if they visit Montana once in a while. If I were writing this law, I would require in-person application and renewal (with instant issuance of credential), and some basic level of training including the Bounds of Authority for this new class of LEO (which might be simply "You have NO authority") and a written exam (to be given only in Montana). This would, if nothing else, be a way to bring a few tourist dollars into the state! Thus, someone wanting this could take the training online, fly to Montana for the weekend, take the exam, file application, get photo shot and credential issued on the spot. This would put up a money hurdle (airfare, lodging and food) on top of the state fees. An additional fee could apply to the online training course. |
#2402
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". . .that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the standards established by the agency for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm;" All that is necessary is that the officer or retired officer MEET THE STANDARD of the agency from which they retired OR the state where they reside, for their particular class of LEO and weapon. States determine their own qualification standards. If the Montana agency only requires "proven ability to pay annual renewal fees," that satisfies LEOSA. |
#2403
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__________________
John -- bitter gun owner. All opinions expressed here are my own unless I say otherwise. I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. |
#2404
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#2405
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The preferred situation is Constitutional Carry, not finding new methods of legitimizing "Mother May I" schemes. |
#2406
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Federal law trumps state determinations, and good luck on that 2nd part in CA. Have any other fantasies you'd like to discuss?
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#2407
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I have met some extremely uneducated LEO from small towns in several states....we are talking over the top hillbilly didnt finish high school and joined the PD at 18. Even this LEO's credential CAN NOT BE DISCOUNTED in other States. |
#2409
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Hmmm... well, since the organizer's web site hasn't been updated in quite a while, and I don't see this bill listed at all on the calendar for the next session of the MT legislature, and I haven't heard mention of a sponsor in the MT legislature, *my* guess is somewhat different.
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== The price of freedom is eternal litigation. == |
#2411
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Personally, I think it's an interesting idea, and would like to see how it plays out, but would not want to be the test case. |
#2412
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One guy started an initiative petition drive for Constitutional Carry. A couple of months later, the Legislature passed a CCW permit law, and in less than 20 years had Constitutional Carry. Consider this food for thought . . . |
#2413
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#2414
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I agree, but what are you supposed to do in the meantime?
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#2415
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I hope whoever is drafting this is also thinking ahead on how it will be rationalized (outside of strict legal definitions). I can already hear the chorus of "that's not what the law intended". |
#2416
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The MAJORITY of people who want this are trained just as well as most police whether you like that fact or not. They have a desire to protect themselves and others. they have a sense of duty and honor. They will be just as reliable as any Police Officer on the street RIGHT NOW. Will there be bad apples...you bet. Are there Police out there right now who are bad apples...you bet... Here's 4 minutes that will make you laugh...Jump to 3:50 to skip the BS... DELETED VIDEO,,,FORGOT THE OFFICER DROPS ABOUT 10 F BOMBS... SEARCH YOUTUBE "COP GOES INSANE ON DRIVER" Last edited by dieselpower; 10-01-2012 at 8:59 PM.. |
#2417
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Diesel, I'm not knocking the idea, in fact I like it, I'm just trying to look at this from a judge's perspective: "Please explain to me what your officer's duties are, and how they can accomplish them when they live thousands of miles away". I think that this is a valid question seeing as the 2A clearly state that "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" yet plenty of legislation that infringes on this right is ruled constitutional. Clear phrasing in law is not a guarentee for interpretation and we should be prepared for this possibility.
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#2418
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this is, most simply described, as a reserve officer's position. and the way LEOSA is written, there is no requirement that you be in your jurisdiction to carry.
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Life SAF Member Life GOA Member EFF Member x7 |
#2419
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#2420
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Just checking for any updates here?
Thought I would post this for future reference: Montana Legislature |
#2421
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This question isn't about the concealed carry portion of the credentials and may be buried in this thread somewhere...
In the event there is a new assault weapons ban...Would a credential such as this create some exception? Maybe that depends on individual state laws and how the AWB would be written? Any thoughts?
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Proud Member of the NRA, Crossbow Nation, Buckeye Firearms Association, Ohio Freedom Alliance "It is the duty of every patriot to protect his country from its government." Thomas Paine |
#2422
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been thought of earlier in thread... thoughts/consensus was it would provide some exceptions, not including full-auto.
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Life SAF Member Life GOA Member EFF Member x7 |
#2424
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Yeah, but don't get too eager.
It may take a month or two before this issue is actually up for consideration. It may not pass. And if it does pass, then implementation of the program might take quite a few months. I personally doubt that you could be signed up in this program before some time in 2014. But what might come earlier is the ability to go to Montana and buy Kalifornia legal (but non-rostered) firearms and bring them back to Kalifornia quite legally. That might not take long at all! But I'm not sure all the bugs have been worked out or that passage is assured.
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CGN's token life-long teetotaling vegetarian. Don't consider anything I post as advice or as anything more than opinion (if even that). |
#2425
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I'm not interested in the concealed carry part of this for the most part. I already have my Ohio CHL and I am also an Instructor for it. The part that interests me are all of the other exceptions that may come with such credentials.
For an example... It is illegal to own a switch blade knife in Ohio but LEO's are exempt. Full auto is not a problem either. We can own machine guns here if you comply with the federal regulations. We have no state law against them. Same goes for suppressors. Thinking forward about an assault weapons ban however makes me interested in what these credentials would do.
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Proud Member of the NRA, Crossbow Nation, Buckeye Firearms Association, Ohio Freedom Alliance "It is the duty of every patriot to protect his country from its government." Thomas Paine |
#2427
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I too like this thinking out of the box. And Think it could be done legally .. I know a town for sale.. The town of Rice... Our family has always talked about buying it and making it a speed trap / rest stop / Oasis in the desert. Never thought about the Gun side of things...
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#2429
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Smile of the Week!
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"The most hated initials in America today ... TSA." Said by yours truly to an audience of nodding IRS employees. |
#2432
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So your thought is Montana is going to give you the authority to carry an gun, and not make you qualify with it on some type of regular bases. Do you really think the Montana Legislature is that stupid!!! I can understand what you are trying to accomplish, but it seams you want the authority without the responsibility. I think I called it in about the first dozen or so pages of this thread. But time will tell. |
#2433
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A mail in qualification target sent in with renewal fees is about as much as most places require for LTC, which is more or less what this is set up to be. |
#2434
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What authority are you referring to?
__________________
Guns, dogs and home alarms. Opponents are all of a sudden advocates once their personal space is violated. "Those who cannot remember the posts are condemned to repeat them" I wish I had a dollar for every time someone used a cliché Why is it all the funny stuff happens to comedians? |
#2435
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Dont feed the unknowledgeable. Let him re-read all 61 pages of posts until it sinks in that what Montana is doing is nothing more than what this country guaranteed to its citizens 236 years ago. They are saving peoples lives.
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#2436
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No offense to Stoner, but he/she doesn't get what is going on.
And actually, passage is not assured. So this venture may prove to be a bust in Montana and it may be that another venue must be tried - or this one re-tried in two years. Understand, we are talking about starting a whole new bureaucracy and a profit is not assured. So it could be very reasonable for the Montana legislature to say that they really don't want to mess with hiring the staff, setting up administrative space, and messing with lawsuits brought by Eric Holder or his follow-on. So who knows? But if it happens it'll be slick!
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CGN's token life-long teetotaling vegetarian. Don't consider anything I post as advice or as anything more than opinion (if even that). |
#2437
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Otherwise, this would be no different than carrying within a shall issue state using a license issued by that state. If any legitimate person in MT is good enough to carry, why wouldn't an equivalent person from CA be good enough? Seems like proper equality to me.
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NRA Benefactor Member |
#2438
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I have no problem with people having to qualify. What's the big deal? Anyone who carries should be able to qualify. I carry, and would have no issue with it.
Funny how it's ok to buy Leo credentials but all of the sudden it's not ok to make someone be able to hit a paper target from 10'. Last edited by skyscraper; 11-17-2012 at 8:11 PM.. |
#2439
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As best I understand it, it's rarely about "having to qualify" but rather about "what will qualifying entail"
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Life SAF Member Life GOA Member EFF Member x7 |
#2440
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Be kind, I think he may have BGOS.
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May all your enemies be on full-auto Jeff Cooper
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