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  #1  
Old 05-20-2020, 10:07 PM
xsefan xsefan is offline
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Default Colt barrel for xm177 clone

I have been lucky enough to score a 16 inch colt barrel that I was going to cut down and make a xm177 . I have been busy and have not cut this down. Today a new colt 14.5 was dropped off to me!
My question is , which barrel do I cut down? The 16 is fairly common it was serialized to a gun. (No idea who has it). The 16 also keeps a bit of velocity over the 14.5
The 16 is always legal .
The 14.5 is cool I could use it for a clone down the road. I don't really ever like 14.5 guns.
I have all other parts colt other than my old serialized 80% reciever. I bought a 10.5 to do this then realized it's an inch short. I am leaning towards cutting the 14.5
Can anyone give a reason to cut the 16inch?
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Old 05-20-2020, 11:14 PM
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Nah.. Go ahead & cut the 14.5. Unless you specifically want a 14.5 gun.
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  #3  
Old 05-21-2020, 12:07 AM
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What are the barrel profiles for each that you have? Are they both pencil like the xm177?
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Old 05-21-2020, 6:32 AM
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Since when are Colt barrels "serialized" to match any receiver?
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Old 05-21-2020, 7:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redcliff View Post
What are the barrel profiles for each that you have? Are they both pencil like the xm177?
^ This

What are the profiles of each barrel?

That should be your deciding factor.
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Old 05-21-2020, 8:00 AM
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The other question is what fake XM177 moderator are you going to use? If you use a "reverse" thread fake moderator (sometimes referred to as a "slip over") you may be able to just have it pinned and welded to the 14.5 barrel and reach (and probably slightly exceed) the 16" permanent barrel length.

You could also just screw one of those on the end of your 16" barrel and not have to bother with pin and welding at all although your total barrel length (with moderator) will be around 18".

If you use a standard "end threaded" xm177 fake moderator you will have to cut, re-thread and re-crown the 14.5 barrel and then pin-weld it if you want to stay as close to 16" as possible. This would also allow you to be as accurate as possible to a real xm177, but at a considerably higher cost.

I too am interested in the serial number on the barrel as I've not seen any Colt AR15 barrels with them.
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Old 05-21-2020, 9:56 AM
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Originally Posted by SVT-40 View Post
Since when are Colt barrels "serialized" to match any receiver?
A few years ago they stopped putting a c in them now the lazer the serial number or a number on them
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Old 05-21-2020, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by xsefan View Post
A few years ago they stopped putting a c in them now the lazer the serial number or a number on them
That's not a serial number. It's a part number.
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Old 05-21-2020, 10:07 AM
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I will be cutting and and putting a 20° crown on the barrel the threading. I have a shop which is how I end up having cool stuff dropped off. I have a take off tavor. 5 inch flash hider. I will mill flat sides into. I really wanted to put the new brownells xm177 comp on but, the m203 cut would be a problem for making a shoulder for the split washer. I'm kinda winging this one. Any advice would be appreciated. I am cutting on a sheldon lathe. I'm a bit of a bubba. One of my coworkers begged me to not use a hacksaw. I have the brownells facing tool. That's how I will get the 20° crown. I have the 1/2 x28 die. And a die holder for the lathe. I will drill and pin then down to a shop for the weld.
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Old 05-21-2020, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT-40 View Post
That's not a serial number. It's a part number.
Thanks I had no idea.
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  #11  
Old 05-21-2020, 10:24 AM
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Sounds like a fun and ambitious project. While it may not be perfectly accurate its all about what you like personally.

I too do builds that are "retro-ish" sometimes myself and substitute in my favorite items like duckbill flash hiders, straight delta rings and rubber buttpad M16a1 stocks if the mood hits me, or substitute available parts for some that may be unobtanium. I'm working on gathering parts for a 607 project right now that won't be totally correct but should be a fun shooter.

Does you die-cutting of threads work out ok? Typically they would be lathe cut. I'm a super bubba on my small lathe and couldn't pull off properly cutting threads if my life depended on it; I primarily only mess with aluminum and soft materials
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Old 05-21-2020, 10:28 AM
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OP's bbls dont look like "pencil" profile. Just standard M4. Personally, I wouldnt bother using them for a 177 build. And if I did have a real Colt 16" pencil barrel, last thing I'd do is cut it down. I'd just use a flashhider, like they did in the movie "platoon". Or I'd put a fake flashhider style thread protector on it for a featureless build.

See attached pic. Colt LE carbine upper with pencil barrel and slim handguards. Its got a thread protector, fixed stock, and featureless grip. Super light and handy. Mated to an LMT 2000 lower.

Just do a 16" CAR15 clone like this:


From the film Platoon
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  #13  
Old 05-21-2020, 11:59 AM
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To me that looks like a pencil barrel. Look at the taper from muzzle device to barrel.
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  #14  
Old 05-21-2020, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xsefan View Post
A few years ago they stopped putting a c in them now the lazer the serial number or a number on them
That's the cage code for colt. 13629-colt
3S679-FN


In layman terms, when U.S. military wants to order a part by manufacturer. They dont say give me a colt bcg. That say give me a 13629 bcg.

Last edited by pythonfan; 05-21-2020 at 12:09 PM..
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  #15  
Old 05-21-2020, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pythonfan View Post
To me that looks like a pencil barrel. Look at the taper from muzzle device to barrel.
You're talking about the movie pic, right? If so, yes, that is a pencil barrel. OPs, barrels look like standard M4 profile, which are not pencil profile.

From IMFDB:
Quote:
SSG Elias (Willem Dafoe), SSG Robert Barnes (Tom Berenger), and Lieutenant Wolfe (Mark Moses) are armed with*Colt Model 653P*carbines, noted by their rounded forward assist buttons and 14.5" barrels, as the 653Ps were 653 export models sent to the Philippines. They were probably meant to stand in (albeit poorly) for the*XM177E1 or XM177E2 Carbines. It is thus anachronistic to see these in the movie, as they were not used during the Vietnam war.
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  #16  
Old 05-21-2020, 2:31 PM
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Both of those barrels are M4 profile, look at the M203 cuts.
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Old 05-21-2020, 5:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by California_Deplorable View Post
You're talking about the movie pic, right? If so, yes, that is a pencil barrel. OPs, barrels look like standard M4 profile, which are not pencil profile.

From IMFDB:




Copy that. Yes I was. I misread your post. I went back and read closer. xsefan picture of the two barrels are both m4 profile just as you said.

Last edited by pythonfan; 05-21-2020 at 5:52 PM..
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Old 05-21-2020, 6:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT-40 View Post
That's not a serial number. It's a part number.
It's actually their CAGE code
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  #19  
Old 05-21-2020, 6:48 PM
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Default Shoulder

I have cut the new stop for the crush washer and the length and faced with a 20 °cutter! I'm glad the glare wont let you see how crap I am in my lathe harbor freight belt sander to the rescue on the front sight base.
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Old 05-21-2020, 7:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xsefan View Post
A few years ago they stopped putting a c in them now the lazer the serial number or a number on them
NOPE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT-40 View Post
That's not a serial number.
It's a part number.
Also NOPE.

13629 is Colt's CAGE code.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commer...nt_Entity_code
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Old 05-21-2020, 8:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xsefan View Post
I have been lucky enough to score a 16 inch colt barrel that I was going to cut down and make a xm177 . I have been busy and have not cut this down. Today a new colt 14.5 was dropped off to me!
My question is , which barrel do I cut down? The 16 is fairly common it was serialized to a gun. (No idea who has it). The 16 also keeps a bit of velocity over the 14.5
The 16 is always legal .
The 14.5 is cool I could use it for a clone down the road. I don't really ever like 14.5 guns.
I have all other parts colt other than my old serialized 80% reciever. I bought a 10.5 to do this then realized it's an inch short. I am leaning towards cutting the 14.5
Can anyone give a reason to cut the 16inch?
Proper barrel length for an XM177 with a clone moderator is 12.75" to just reach 16".
Also figure on re-contouring either one of those M4 contour barrels for a 0.625" FSB.
The barrel should be 0.570" forward of the FSB but leave a nice little step of 0.620" diameter behind the muzzle threads.
I cut a step behind the threads for the grenade ring.



If you want the upper as realistic as possible, shave the forging line on the rear face of the FSB as well as the bayonet lug before you re-park.




Also chase down a straight handguard lock ring to put it all together with.

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Old 05-28-2020, 8:18 PM
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Default Done

I just need to drill and pin then take it down for s tight spot.
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Old 06-03-2020, 10:32 PM
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I see no reason to cut the 16", you could use it to just make a lightweight AR, if you make something out of the 14.5 your going to have to pin an attachment on it, and a standard A2 attachment is still too short to make it 16", you could pin on a an extended one or something else. I'd cut the 14.5
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Old 06-16-2020, 6:07 AM
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Cut and done. I have it locked in my trunk. My trunk lock failed so next weeks project is to open that up and change the locks again.
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Old 06-16-2020, 8:56 AM
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That will work okay with no change in gas port size?
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Old 06-16-2020, 9:25 AM
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
That will work okay with no change in gas port size?
Depends on the gas port size.
Gas ports vary in size dramatically.
Most will need to be opened up after shortening from 16" to 12.75" but some are already bigger than they need to be.
Some are just right.
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Old 06-16-2020, 12:01 PM
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While a 11.5" barrel XM177 is 10 on a cool factor scale, the effectiveness of the M193 55 grain bullet is based on a minimum velocity of 2600 fps +or- 50 fps. 20 inch barrels are good to 225 +or-, 16 inch for 150 to 175ish, 14.5s to about 125-150, and 11.5s to 60-75 yards. I had a "seized" XM177 for a short time as a LEO trunk weapon (until a SWAT Sgt. grabbed it) and it was an awesome SMG and house clearing weapon, but sucked as a rifle!

As far as port size, when I was in the USAF Security Police reserves (after active Army) we had GAU-5/A/A, which was an XM177 without a forward assit. For reliable running, we opened up the gas port to .100-.108". It was hard on gas rings (especially in full auto), though, and we had to check them.

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Old 06-20-2020, 8:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
If you want the upper as realistic as possible, shave the forging line on the rear face of the FSB as well as the bayonet lug before you re-park.


Is the forging line supposed to be milled down flat? Or did the originals have a curvature to them?
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Old 06-20-2020, 9:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Oldmandan View Post
Is the forging line supposed to be milled down flat?
Or did the originals have a curvature to them?
The originals have curvature in them.
I do mine exactly like the originals.

I had a real XM177 barrel assembly in my hands when I learned about how the forging line was removed.
It even had the sanding line going 1/2 way up the sight blade protector ears like how I do it.
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Old 08-01-2020, 7:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imarangemaster View Post
While a 11.5" barrel XM177 is 10 on a cool factor scale, the effectiveness of the M193 55 grain bullet is based on a minimum velocity of 2600 fps +or- 50 fps. 20 inch barrels are good to 225 +or-, 16 inch for 150 to 175ish, 14.5s to about 125-150, and 11.5s to 60-75 yards. I had a "seized" XM177 for a short time as a LEO trunk weapon (until a SWAT Sgt. grabbed it) and it was an awesome SMG and house clearing weapon, but sucked as a rifle!

As far as port size, when I was in the USAF Security Police reserves (after active Army) we had GAU-5/A/A, which was an XM177 without a forward assit. For reliable running, we opened up the gas port to .100-.108". It was hard on gas rings (especially in full auto), though, and we had to check them.
I'm just wanting a kewl gun! I have a few other ar rifles. Depending on my next boating trip in Bodega Bay. I love building and this was my first lathe experience. It worked but, I clearly need a class. It worked out so good. I had a 12/19 made barrel dropped off to do the same. He has ordered the Brownells muzzle device. So I will need to measure it when its in.
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Old 08-02-2020, 6:36 PM
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Dont cut down the colt barrel. Figure out another way.
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Old 08-02-2020, 8:23 PM
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Originally Posted by major burnout View Post
Dont cut down the colt barrel.
Figure out another way.
The only ways to get a Colt XM177 clone are to get a REAL colt XM177 barrel (effectively unobtainable as they have not been made in 50ish years) or to cut down a colt barrel into an XM177 configuration.
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Old 08-03-2020, 5:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xsefan View Post
I'm just wanting a kewl gun! I have a few other ar rifles. Depending on my next boating trip in Bodega Bay. I love building and this was my first lathe experience. It worked but, I clearly need a class. It worked out so good. I had a 12/19 made barrel dropped off to do the same. He has ordered the Brownells muzzle device. So I will need to measure it when its in.
The brownells muzzle device is 4.4 inches and with the grenade ring it measures 4.6 inches. I'm also working on a 177 clone and just measured my brownells muzzle device.
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Old 08-03-2020, 5:37 PM
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I kind of gave up on one in this state...bummer..
thought about building an XM177E2 in 22lr...with all the goodies left on

either way...a nice retro is always good to have.

once you build one...your hooked.... start saving up for ALL the others you will build too.
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Old 08-03-2020, 8:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
The only ways to get a Colt XM177 clone are to get a REAL colt XM177 barrel (effectively unobtainable as they have not been made in 50ish years) or to cut down a colt barrel into an XM177 configuration.
Brownells has them now
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  #36  
Old 08-04-2020, 8:04 AM
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check out TNTE ...lots of retro's
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  #37  
Old 08-04-2020, 8:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldmandan View Post
Brownells has them now
Not a colt, but not too bad.
It does not have a proper FSB on it.
Still lots of work to be done to make it more historically correct.
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