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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles. |
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#1
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a new precision rifle? or 6.8spc/grendel upper
Looking for a long range rifle for simple range shooting. I love the type of shooting for long range (<200yards). I am not sure whether i can enjoy the experience more with a whole new rifle? (savage or remington etc.)...or just buy a 6.8 SPC or Grendel (or any other high power round for that matter) Upper for my current AR15. Need suggestions/hints/ personal ideas. Thanks!
Last edited by NYY; 05-09-2011 at 8:05 PM.. |
#2
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FYI: 200 yards is not considered long range.
It has long been known that 6.5 Grendel is FAR FAR FAR FAR superior to the 6.8 in every imaginable way. 6.8 proponents like to state (while flailing their arms wildly. Because they are crazy), "well, if its close range, the 6.8 is better then the 6.5 because thats what it was made for!!" No. Its just not true. 6.5 has about equal ft pounds energy out of the muzzle, but every 100 yards it maintains its energy while the 6.8 rapidly bleeds off. After 300 yards it has left that 6.8 brick in the proverbial dust. Here is a real world comparison for you: "The 6.8 SPC 115gr leaves the muzzle at 2700 fps, and drops to 2417 at 100 meters and 1903 at 300 meters. Energy is 1861 at the barrel, 1492 at 100 meters, and 925 at 300 meters. The 6.5 Grendel 123 leaves the muzzle at 2600 fps and drops to 2426 at 100 and 2098 at 300. Energy starts at 1846 and drops to 1607 at 100 and 1202 at 300. At longer ranges, it's still all Grendel, as expected. At 500 meters, the Grendel retains 1797fps and 882 ft-lbs energy, compared to 1470 and 552 for the 6.8 SPC. The difference becomes more pronounced out to 1000 yards." |
#3
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200 -500 yard pick your poison (6.5,6.8,.223). 500+ go with the grendel. Of course for the price of a Grendel upper you can pick up a nice 700 in 308 with money left over.
I have the 6.5 grendel upper and I love it. http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CF0Q8wIwAA# http://www.google.com/search?aq=f&so...w=1280&bih=685
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Pr. 22:3 The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and pay the penalty. Don't Listen to me, I had bad grades in high school.... Last edited by hammerhands32; 05-09-2011 at 8:56 PM.. |
#4
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For 200+ I would stay with .223. I believe you can load the 77 grain bullets to mag length and get good performance but I don't have much experience with .223 loading. There are very few if any match grade high BC bullets in 6.8 and 6.5 is more expensive than .223.
Last edited by Bhobbs; 05-09-2011 at 9:00 PM.. |
#5
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Most of my shooting/hunting is under 250 yards - I went with the 6.8 SPC II for two reasons:
1) Choices of ammo 2) Cost of ammo 6.8 packs plenty of punch in close - Much more than the .223 If I really wanted more power after 400 yards - I'd just build an AR10 - Or maybe a .338 Laupa on the AR15 platform. Until then - The 6.8 suits me just fine... |
#6
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Exactly what RR said. Also take into consideration that the 6.5 round is hard to come by an unless your Reloading, not too good on the wallet. I am a big fan of AR's. But with that said, unless you want to shell out for a 308 AR, I would stick with a bolt action .308. Low cost to start, if your not Reloading, lots of quality ammo avail.
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#8
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Quote:
I figured if I was paying around $.75 to 1.50 a shot I might as well have all the benefits of 6.5.
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Pr. 22:3 The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and pay the penalty. Don't Listen to me, I had bad grades in high school.... Last edited by hammerhands32; 05-09-2011 at 9:08 PM.. |
#9
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A real precision rifle should throw a heavier bullet at least as accurately as an AR.
Grendle might have an accuracy advantage but all the Grendle fan boys quote 6.8 SPC data from 3-4 years ago when they all used a bad chamber design and barrels with too much twist. A good 6.8 barrel shoots much higher velocity at lower pressure, they have some advantages over the Grendle at shorter ranges and shorter barrels. 6.8 SPC has better magazines too. If you want to try to take a head shot at 700 yards, Grendle has an edge. If you want to hit a 12" target at 500 yards, the difference is not enough to worry about. The biggest difference between SPC and Grendle shooters that I can tell is that Grendle shooters show off the nice group they shot on paper while SPC shooters show off the deer or hog they got, one shot, dead right there at 300 yards.
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Last edited by wash; 05-09-2011 at 9:12 PM.. |
#10
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Quote:
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Pr. 22:3 The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and pay the penalty. Don't Listen to me, I had bad grades in high school.... Last edited by hammerhands32; 05-09-2011 at 9:16 PM.. |
#11
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That's right, your rifle ain't all that.
The 6.8 ain't all that either. Grendle trades a lot of case capacity got a long high B.C. bullet, 6.8 goes the other way. There are some very accurate Grendles out there but I've seen 5" groups shot by a 6.8 SPC at 500 yards. You can also find lots of pictures of beautifully mushroomed 6.8 bullets pulled out of game. It just works. I am actually building a rifle for 700 yard head shots and it is a 6.5, it's just a 6.5*47, not a Grendle. |
#12
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Quote:
Actually the biggest advantage the 6.5 Grendel has over the 6.8 SPC II is the bullet selection. The 6.5mm bullet are in all ways superior to what is currentlty available for the 6mm.
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Internet Talk is Cheap Man Up, Show Up, or Shut the @#$! Up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C74HgbjSCLM |
#13
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awesome i understand everything here and have taken it all into consideration! I appreciate all your inputs very largely. Helps me make a choice! I feel like I am now between the SPC or just a bolt action rifle(.308 or .338 Lapua). I dont have the need to reach out past 500 yards, and i would prefer the stopping power for anything >700yds.(hunting which i may peruse)
Last edited by NYY; 05-09-2011 at 9:35 PM.. |
#14
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Examples
http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/...chart-2010.pdf http://www.alexanderarms.com/grendel_ballistics.pdf I had a 6.8 and I sold it. Why, because of what I read on the internet lol. I actually figured "why have two uppers in different calibers, with very similar ballistics, that are expensive to shoot". Can't really go wrong with either. As for hunting photos, I hope to have some of those for you next month.
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Pr. 22:3 The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and pay the penalty. Don't Listen to me, I had bad grades in high school.... |
#17
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LG MARINE, If I had to do it over again I would go with the 700 in .308. Lighter rifle, ammo everywhere and cheaper also.
If your really into target accuracy, hit one of the local competitions and see what everybody else is shooting. I would bet you won't see many 6.8 or Grendels out there.
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Pr. 22:3 The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and pay the penalty. Don't Listen to me, I had bad grades in high school.... |
#18
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thanks hammerhands. Yeah im more interested in having a separate rifle ONLY for long range shooting like a Savage or Remington. period. whether its .308 or .338, Thats the way i think im choosing to go. Thanks so much!
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#20
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Shouldn't you be sleeping or preparing for the big match on 14th/15th.
Since you're here, have you ever seen anyone be competetive with a Grendel?
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Pr. 22:3 The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and pay the penalty. Don't Listen to me, I had bad grades in high school.... |
#21
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That's why I'm not fooling around with a Grendle and I'm building a 6.5*47. You get heavier, higher B.C. bullets, more velocity and better magazines (LR .308 Pmag).
If you want a small rifle that hits hard up close it doesn't get much better than a 6.8. If you want a rifle to be very accurate at long range, Grendle isn't the best you can do by a long shot. It's just one of the more accurate chamberings that will fit an AR15. |
#22
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If you want laser stuff build yourself a nice Savage in .243. Same thing in .308 with really nice match ammunition for not too much money, just not quite as flat shooting, but more recoil and longer barrel life. Want to do something different? Build it in 6.5 Creedmoor. One of those cartridges that just work. Hornady makes some really nice match ammunition for the same price as .308 with less recoil. Easy to reload too. 7-08 is under-rated by a lot of people. Maybe find a nice mil-surp based match rifle in 6.5X55. Match ammunition a little harder to find off the shelf, but decent stuff will outshoot the majority of shooters.
I once had a chance to buy a 40XB in .308 w/scope for $200 many years ago. Regret.....
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There are some people that it's just not worth engaging. It's a muzzle BRAKE, not a muzzle break. Or is your muzzle tired? |
#23
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I see u posted 338 lapua LOL lgmarine go 308 in a bolt action.. Have 700 in 308 and ar30 in 338 lapua the lapua only gets shot when took a long range class.. Not to mention ammo price of lapua.. Or the fact u said 0-700 yards.. Lapua would be a waste to 700 yrds 308 or a grendal will suit u just fine
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#24
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I built a Grendel and like it. Don’t love it just like it. It’s accurate and a blast to shoot. When I started with it I had a lot of issues with reloads. After banging my head against my reloading bench I worked them out and now it’s more fun to shoot.
It is very hard to find factory ammo for it. Brass is expensive; there are a ton of bullets out there for it and a decent selection of powder. I plan to use it to shoot pig late this year or early next. I built it to have a semi auto rifle for hunting that was a bigger round than the .223 and to have some fun at the range. Have shoot steel off hand out to just under 300 yards with it. So far it fits the nitch in my safe I built it for. All in All I would do it again. |
#25
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Remington 700 in 308 is the most practical. If you want I think I know someone with a nice one (PSS in bell carlson stock, proven good shooter) for 800ish.
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#26
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Quote:
If you want a laser in an AR15, 6*41 (necked down 6.8 case) will shoot higher B.C. bullets than a Grendle with velocity almost as high as a .243 (95 grain at ~2950 fps). There are a couple other faster, flatter AR chamberings but I don't know of one that really fits a standard AR magazine. I didn't want a wildcat and I didn't want a space gun match rifle so I chose the SPC. But different strokes for different folks, Grendle does some things better than 6.8, I just don't shoot 600 yard matches. |
#27
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Grendel case have the same head dimensions as the 7.62x39? Imagine an AK in 6.5....
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Sugarcoating a piece of s**t does not change the fact that it is still a piece of s**t.- James P. Smith |
#28
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People are trying to do that and it makes a hell of a lot more sense than trying to make a 6.8 SPC AK.
I think a Grendle version of a mini30 might be cool too. A Grendle SKS would be really neat. |
#30
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i see i see. Yeah i went by a local gunshop and held some remington/winchester .308's and .270's. I love the bolt action feeling on both. Having an AR in .223 is fine enough. My "want" is no longer apart of a semi automatic rifle. Bolt action will be the way i will go for sure. Thanks guys for all the help and for helping me make my decision. appreciate it a lot!
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#31
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6.8 is weaksauce all around and I will be happy to see the day when that round finally fades away. 6.8 and precision do not belong in the same category on any form. The 6.8 was developed as an inbetween for the 5.56 and .308 for knockdown power. But then again anything that can be taken down with a 6.8 can be had with most 6.5mm or larger bullets with similar bullet performance. The whole thing is your getting a bigger round out of an AR platform but thats about it.
But then to each there own I guess right?
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Ahhhhhhhhhhh! Man that was some great Kool-Aid.......... hmmmmmm theres a hint of something metallic. Oh well guess I will get on with the voting. |
#32
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After all this Wash has me looking at a .260 Rem, 6.5x47, or a 6.5 Creedmoor. What a jerk.
__________________
Pr. 22:3 The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and pay the penalty. Don't Listen to me, I had bad grades in high school.... |
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