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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #361  
Old 06-16-2017, 6:00 AM
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Of course you can take your rifle apart. You can strip it down to every individual part if you want. However, CADOJ requires you to split the action in order to remove the magazine.

In the case of a jam, you would drop the floor plate to remove unexpeneed ammunition and then clear the rest from there. Yes it is a PITA. Driving home with an unexpected cartridge in the rifle would not be legally acceptable or safe. I don't think there is any reason to do so.
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  #362  
Old 06-16-2017, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by protohyp View Post
sure I can agree with that. but as I mention in my last post because of those stipulations I will not be able to take my rifle apart at home for any reason?
If the upper is removed from the lower, then there is no problem with then removing the magazine catch.

The problem is, if it is reasonably possible (the courts will decide what "reasonably" means, my opinion is "without damage") to remove the magazine attachment without opening the upper, then it is not compliant.

The BB spacer would be compliant only if it were sealed in using epoxy so removal would require drilling out the part, similar to this:
https://www.meanarms.com/products/detail/ma-lock
While not epoxied into place, the head shears off, leaving no way to remove the threaded shank. While it may only meet the DOJ definition of "fixed" magazine, that's pretty "permanent" IMHO.

If I recall your original proposal correctly, your response to these concerns were similar to the response of the owner of ARMaglock in his video covering how to handle a malfunction.
This made sense at the time, but at the time of your proposal (and his video) the DOJ regs had not been released and it was not defined that a missing magazine catch resulted in an AW.
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  #363  
Old 06-16-2017, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
If the upper is removed from the lower, then there is no problem with then removing the magazine catch.

The problem is, if it is reasonably possible (the courts will decide what "reasonably" means, my opinion is "without damage") to remove the magazine attachment without opening the upper, then it is not compliant.

The BB spacer would be compliant only if it were sealed in using epoxy so removal would require drilling out the part, similar to this:
https://www.meanarms.com/products/detail/ma-lock
While not epoxied into place, the head shears off, leaving no way to remove the threaded shank. While it may only meet the DOJ definition of "fixed" magazine, that's pretty "permanent" IMHO.

If I recall your original proposal correctly, your response to these concerns were similar to the response of the owner of ARMaglock in his video covering how to handle a malfunction.
This made sense at the time, but at the time of your proposal (and his video) the DOJ regs had not been released and it was not defined that a missing magazine catch resulted in an AW.

yes...I agree with your position and the timing of the posts and release of regulations.

at the same time it is my position and probably only mine that safety trumps all laws. for me if I am unable to clear this malfunction safely i will do as I see fit even if it isn't within the 'written' law.

As a matter of fact i encountered this exact situation at Burro Canyon last week testing products and with several Law enforcement hovering and even watching what I was doing (subsequently smirking at the crap that I had to go through) I removed the catch and cleared my malfunction. I didn't ask their permission and while it may be an unusual situation i would have no issue doing it again if it meant being safe above all.

for most it is a tough situation to be in and rifle owners can choose which method to clear malfunction they want. i'm just stating my preferred method and why I choose this method.
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  #364  
Old 06-16-2017, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by protohyp View Post
at the same time it is my position and probably only mine that safety trumps all laws. for me if I am unable to clear this malfunction safely i will do as I see fit even if it isn't within the 'written' law.
I don't disagree with you, but the law and the courts will.
The problem is, in most cases, laws are intended to, and occasionally are successful at improving safety. Vehicle crash protection, smoke detectors, etc....

Firearms laws are not and never have been about safety... they are about making it more difficult to possess firearms, and to ensnare the unsuspecting as felons to make them prohibited persons.

How is a magazine disconnect more safe? If I'm in a defensive situation, have a round chambered, but the magazine is not fully seated OR is dropped in a struggle, the gun will not fire and I'm screwed.
It's not about safety, it's about control and disarmamant.

Quote:
As a matter of fact i encountered this exact situation at Burro Canyon last week testing products and with several Law enforcement hovering and even watching what I was doing (subsequently smirking at the crap that I had to go through) I removed the catch and cleared my malfunction. I didn't ask their permission and while it may be an unusual situation i would have no issue doing it again if it meant being safe above all.
And since the BBAW registration window is still open, no violation would have occurred even if you had been using a standard BB.
Yes, the law itself has kicked in which defines a 2016-compliant build as an AW, but as long as you are following all laws that apply to RAW with respect to transport and use, having a not-yet-registered 2016-compliant rifle at the range is not yet illegal.

Quote:
i'm just stating my preferred method and why I choose this method.
And that's fine as long as you understand the risk, and that doing so DOES create an AW and is a felony violation of the law.

It's cool for you to decide to do that yourself, but to suggest it as a solution to others without full disclosure of the legal pitfalls is a problem, and borders on a TOS violation of the forum (promoting illegal activity)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just gov't will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just gov't. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #365  
Old 06-16-2017, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
I don't disagree with you, but the law and the courts will.
The problem is, in most cases, laws are intended to, and occasionally are successful at improving safety. Vehicle crash protection, smoke detectors, etc....

Firearms laws are not and never have been about safety... they are about making it more difficult to possess firearms, and to ensnare the unsuspecting as felons to make them prohibited persons.

How is a magazine disconnect more safe? If I'm in a defensive situation, have a round chambered, but the magazine is not fully seated OR is dropped in a struggle, the gun will not fire and I'm screwed.
It's not about safety, it's about control and disarmamant.


And since the BBAW registration window is still open, no violation would have occurred even if you had been using a standard BB.
Yes, the law itself has kicked in which defines a 2016-compliant build as an AW, but as long as you are following all laws that apply to RAW with respect to transport and use, having a not-yet-registered 2016-compliant rifle at the range is not yet illegal.


And that's fine as long as you understand the risk, and that doing so DOES create an AW and is a felony violation of the law.

It's cool for you to decide to do that yourself, but to suggest it as a solution to others without full disclosure of the legal pitfalls is a problem, and borders on a TOS violation of the forum (promoting illegal activity)


Good points on everything above. I appreciate your input.


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  #366  
Old 06-16-2017, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklinarmory View Post
Not at this time, but we do have a special package. If you purchase a DFM 5 pack, we will throw in a DFM bolt catch for free.

It probably doesn't hurt to mention that $2 of every DFM sale will go to the CRPA Foundation for litigation funding.
So if I make 5 different purchases 1 mag/purchase does $10 get donated and I get a free DFM bolt catch?

I am only joking and I will order today.
Thank you.
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  #367  
Old 06-26-2017, 4:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip_Dog View Post
So if I make 5 different purchases 1 mag/purchase does $10 get donated and I get a free DFM bolt catch?

I am only joking and I will order today.
Thank you.
We actually donate $2 for every DFM item, so on the package deal, that equates to $12 to CRPA foundation earmarked for litigation. Each quarter, this adds up to real money to actually tackle the issues!
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  #368  
Old 03-19-2018, 9:40 AM
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If the bolt catch is left unmodified, is it at all possible to remove the magazine? Or is it locked in there until you remove the bolt catch?
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  #369  
Old 03-19-2018, 9:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Hoooper View Post
If the bolt catch is left unmodified, is it at all possible to remove the magazine? Or is it locked in there until you remove the bolt catch?
Depends on what you're willing to do.

The magazine has two retaining tabs that keep it from falling free of the magwell. Since those tabs are just sheet metal, yanking hard enough *might* deform them enough to let the mag come out. If you split the upper and the lower, you could probably bend the tabs out of the way with a pair of pliers, or use a set of flush cutters to remove them. Then the magazine would drop free.
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  #370  
Old 03-19-2018, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by edwardm View Post
Depends on what you're willing to do.

The magazine has two retaining tabs that keep it from falling free of the magwell. Since those tabs are just sheet metal, yanking hard enough *might* deform them enough to let the mag come out. If you split the upper and the lower, you could probably bend the tabs out of the way with a pair of pliers, or use a set of flush cutters to remove them. Then the magazine would drop free.
My hope is that its NOT removable without damaging the magazine or removing the bolt catch. Personally I think the "stripper clip" ejection port reloaders look like the most convenient compliance method available, but you need a fixed mag to go with those and Id rather not use the ones that bolt the mag in permanently or require adding a bunch of levers and crap to the outside. With a drop in mag as long as the bolt catch is going to hold it in everything else can be free state friendly.
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  #371  
Old 03-19-2018, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardm View Post
Depends on what you're willing to do.

The magazine has two retaining tabs that keep it from falling free of the magwell. Since those tabs are just sheet metal, yanking hard enough *might* deform them enough to let the mag come out. If you split the upper and the lower, you could probably bend the tabs out of the way with a pair of pliers, or use a set of flush cutters to remove them. Then the magazine would drop free.
Those are hardened stainless steel tabs. They won't just bend out of the way by pulling. It is possible to grind them off whence it is out of the lower, but I don't think that is what Hoooper was asking.

Hoooper, you would need to remove the bolt catch in order to remove the magazine if that was what you wanted to do. If you want to be able to switch magazines for out of state use, then you would probably want to use a DFM bolt catch as well. However, given how smooth the BFD and Mean stripper clips work, you might be just as well off to leave the Drop-in Mixed Magazine permanently installed.
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  #372  
Old 03-19-2018, 11:41 AM
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Do you have any plans to make a version for Ak variants?
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  #373  
Old 03-19-2018, 4:59 PM
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Do you have any plans to make a version for Ak variants?
We looked at the AK, and if I remember right, it did not appear that it would be as effective.
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