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  #1  
Old 10-08-2018, 4:02 PM
bug_eyedmonster bug_eyedmonster is offline
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Default Cleavers... educate me.

I have been looking for a new kitchen cleaver. The current one I have has a slight roundness to the cutting edge, meaning it's not flat across. I have seen them both ways, and wanted to see if there was a difference or benefit to one over the other. I currently use the cleaver for everything from chopping up larger amounts of veggies to prepping some meat cuts (aside from slicing large cuts into fillets or steaks). The problem I have with my current one is it's stainless, including the handle/grip. It's usually fine with the vegetables, but when cutting/chopping meats, it gets slippery. It also does not hold an edge well, so when doing larger amounts of work, such as cubing frozen pork belly into 1/4" cubes, at least one stop to the honing rod is required.

Thoughts? Recommendations?

Jerry
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  #2  
Old 10-09-2018, 10:49 AM
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Change the edge geometry
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  #3  
Old 10-09-2018, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffrice6 View Post
Change the edge geometry
Are you referring to the current cleaver I have? I think the bigger concern for me is the grip and lack of control I have with it more than the cutting edge. I'm asking for the next one, if I should be looking for one with a flat edge or one with curve. Thanks.

Jerry
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Old 10-09-2018, 3:08 PM
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I've got a 4# cleaver that belonged to my Dad (a professional sous chef back in the day) that I spent hrs putting a razor's edge on that will literally chop thru ANYTHING.
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  #5  
Old 10-09-2018, 3:57 PM
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Chinese cleavers are meant to be sort of a 'do-all' kitchen knife (comparable to a western chef knife), but aren't meant for hard butchering duties like cutting frozen chops.

Western cleavers generally don't have the edge geometry to get and stay really sharp. The tend towards being thicker behind the edge.

I'd say pick up a chef's knife. My personal favorite is a 10 inch K Sabatier au carbone. NOS is nice, but new is just fine. I think you'll find the steel too soft though.

If you really want to keep using a cleaver for everything, why not run over to Williams Sonoma or some place and handle a few? Is your current one made by Global (I ask because i don't care for their steel handles either).
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Old 10-09-2018, 4:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
Chinese cleavers are meant to be sort of a 'do-all' kitchen knife (comparable to a western chef knife), but aren't meant for hard butchering duties like cutting frozen chops.

Western cleavers generally don't have the edge geometry to get and stay really sharp. The tend towards being thicker behind the edge.

I'd say pick up a chef's knife. My personal favorite is a 10 inch K Sabatier au carbone. NOS is nice, but new is just fine. I think you'll find the steel too soft though.

If you really want to keep using a cleaver for everything, why not run over to Williams Sonoma or some place and handle a few? Is your current one made by Global (I ask because i don't care for their steel handles either).
I have a knife set that I also use frequently with a chef's knife, and it works great, but sometimes, when I'm in the groove, I just grab the cleaver and go to town. I like using the cleaver when I'm feeling lazy, since i know it will handle frozen meat, smaller bone, and I can easily dice and mince stuff like onions, shallots, garlic, etc.

I think what I might end up doing is just replacing the current cleaver with two new ones since I can't figure out what I want.


Jerry
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Old 10-09-2018, 5:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NapalmCheese View Post
Chinese cleavers are meant to be sort of a 'do-all' kitchen knife (comparable to a western chef knife), but aren't meant for hard butchering duties like cutting frozen chops.
There isn't just 1 kind of Chinese cleaver.

I've got about a dozen Chinese cleavers which fall into at least 3 basic types: 1) big, thick & heavy for chopping thru bones, 2) medium in size, weight & thickness for general food prep including chopping (but not bones) and slicing and 3) small, thin light weight for slicing & fine food prep only.

You need at least 1 of each type for Chinese food prep.
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Old 10-09-2018, 5:54 PM
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what youre describing is a vegetable cleaver, not a meat cleaver. meat cleavers are heavier and sharpened at a much broader angle so they can power through bones and connective tissue.

the cleaver your describing is more asian. for chopping cabbage and other large greens.

meat cleaver:


veg cleaver:


25 degree with meat vs 15 or so for vegetables.
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Old 10-09-2018, 5:58 PM
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Here you go!

https://www.knifemerchant.com/produc...SABEgJfAfD_BwE

Lol

I have a wusthof cleaver that came in a set, but can't comment on it as I've never used it.
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  #10  
Old 10-09-2018, 6:04 PM
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Consider a Japanese Deba.

https://www.amazon.com/Yoshihiro-Shi...rch&th=1&psc=1
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Old 10-10-2018, 9:45 AM
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Originally Posted by jeffrice6 View Post
Here you go!

https://www.knifemerchant.com/produc...SABEgJfAfD_BwE

Lol

I have a wusthof cleaver that came in a set, but can't comment on it as I've never used it.
If I had even a hint of need for this, I would buy it based on name and looks alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYT View Post
what youre describing is a vegetable cleaver, not a meat cleaver. meat cleavers are heavier and sharpened at a much broader angle so they can power through bones and connective tissue.

the cleaver your describing is more asian. for chopping cabbage and other large greens.

meat cleaver:


veg cleaver:


25 degree with meat vs 15 or so for vegetables.
Thank you for clearing that up. I think I'll end up with both types.

Jerry
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  #12  
Old 10-10-2018, 10:01 AM
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For vegetables I like a light flat edge knife.

Light weight gives you speed and I don’t need the mass to chop vegis.

I have a meat cleaver and you want the mass to give you momentum (M*V) to chop through bone.
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  #13  
Old 10-10-2018, 10:34 AM
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From left to right.

The Beaver, June, Wally, and Ward Cleaver




FTR I use a cutco Butcher knife on everything except dicing and slicing veggies
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
For vegetables I like a light flat edge knife.

Light weight gives you speed and I don’t need the mass to chop vegis.

I have a meat cleaver and you want the mass to give you momentum (M*V) to chop through bone.
veg cleavers arent heavy like meat cleavers. they only offer height.

a light, short knife will not cut large veggies well and keep the cutting board neat. you need that height. chopping cabbage or lettuce for example.

messy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaiwBj5BUfY

neat:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7HWq4Mu5DU

it also reduced the risk of slicing your fingers. i am a fan of that.

Last edited by NYT; 10-10-2018 at 10:47 AM..
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  #15  
Old 10-10-2018, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by bug_eyedmonster View Post
If I had even a hint of need for this, I would buy it based on name and looks alone.



Thank you for clearing that up. I think I'll end up with both types.

Jerry
im a knife whore, meat cleaver and veg cleaver and nakiri. if anyone can tell me the reason i need a nakiri and not just a veg cleaver, i would appreciate it. i bought both because i couldnt find the straight answer.
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:52 AM
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im a knife whore, meat cleaver and veg cleaver and nakiri. if anyone can tell me the reason i need a nakiri and not just a veg cleaver, i would appreciate it. i bought both because i couldnt find the straight answer.
My aunt in Taiwan has a knife like the one attached, and I'd like to find something similar. Anyone know anything about this? I nabbed it from the googling device, but cannot make out info on it.

I have a nakiri that came with my knife set, and I use it, but not very much for the very reason you mentioned. It's not tall enough for when I get into a chopping frenzy, and I get nervous about trimming my knuckles.

Jerry
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File Type: jpg veggie cleaver.jpg (33.2 KB, 18 views)
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Old 10-10-2018, 1:55 PM
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Originally Posted by bug_eyedmonster View Post
My aunt in Taiwan has a knife like the one attached, and I'd like to find something similar. Anyone know anything about this? I nabbed it from the googling device, but cannot make out info on it.

I have a nakiri that came with my knife set, and I use it, but not very much for the very reason you mentioned. It's not tall enough for when I get into a chopping frenzy, and I get nervous about trimming my knuckles.

Jerry
thats like a sumo santoku. i think the thais use them predominately. others use them as multi purpose camp cleavers. shun makes one but not as large as that.

japanese knives are more angular in their raindrop pattern.
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Old 10-10-2018, 2:02 PM
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CCK Rhino cleaver


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Old 10-10-2018, 2:17 PM
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CCK Rhino cleaver


dude, that knife is 2 pounds! thats heavier than my meat cleaver.
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Old 10-10-2018, 2:52 PM
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dude, that knife is 2 pounds! thats heavier than my meat cleaver.

Yup, haha! It's designed to cleave bone. It's comical looking.
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Old 10-10-2018, 3:41 PM
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That thing looks both comical and not very useful hahaha.

Jerry
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Old 10-10-2018, 3:58 PM
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Wonder if the wife would notice?
https://www.ebay.com/p/1672521176?tr...79502824&rt=nc
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Old 10-10-2018, 4:05 PM
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CCK Rhino cleaver


Better have a real sturdy butcher block and strong wrists When using that chunk of steel
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Old 10-11-2018, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
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im a knife whore, meat cleaver and veg cleaver and nakiri. if anyone can tell me the reason i need a nakiri and not just a veg cleaver, i would appreciate it. i bought both because i couldnt find the straight answer.


Well the Japanese don’t really traditionally have a veggie cleaver like the Chinese do. They would normally use a Nakiri or usuba or if carving, a mukimono. So that’s why you cannot find a clear answer to your question.


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Old 10-11-2018, 9:12 PM
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The world is your oyster...
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/cckcleavers.html

OP, really consider the Chinese cleaver to suit your kitchen needs. Be advised not to be hacking with it through bone I use the CCK 1303 for prepping any stir fry dishes.
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Old 10-13-2018, 10:43 AM
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A good crossover between a thin Chinese cleaver and a traditional heavy meat cleaver is the Victorinox/Forschner 7” cleaver with their Fibrox handle, #40590, it’s not too heavy, has a good balance and the Fibrox handle is very comfortable for chopping and it stays tactile even when working with chicken. I use to sell the chicken processors Victorinox knives with the Fibrox handle almost exclusively because the handle stays tactile but it’s not soft nor rubbery and the material doesn’t get impacted with food waste.

I have this cleaver in my knife drawer, it works great on vegetables and poultry


I also have a heavy 8” Russell/Foster Brothers #238 for beef and pork, this one belonged to my wife’s grandfather who was a German trained butcher and sausage maker in the Fresno area before the 1970’s


MM
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  #27  
Old 10-15-2018, 10:21 AM
bug_eyedmonster bug_eyedmonster is offline
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Thanks to all that have given input. I think I'll end up buying a couple of options, one meat/bone cleaver, and a veggie/Chinese style. My wife and I plan to visit Taiwan, and if it's next yer, I may just go there to see what I can find. There are some nice cutlery shops there that sell many Japanese made knives.

Jerry
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