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  #241  
Old 06-11-2018, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F&F FIREARMS View Post
I ordered these for you guys as you ordered them...then stripped them.... not very cool to try and stick me with your product... but to each there own I guess.
First let me say that I hope everyone that orders gets theirs before the cut of. And I hope the seller does great on this sale.

To be fair, you took a risk putting this package together without a firm date for shipping. You took a calculated risk knowing that any California buyer would need it by a certain date in order to register it. Purchasers put down money in good faith that they would receive the requested product in a timeline that allowed for registration. If they can not receive the product (as intended to be registered) due to forces outside of their control why should they eat the cost? I mean I can see you being upset if you were already shipping but at this point their is a isn't even a soft date and their is a high likelihood that even if they start shipping by the end of this week it would be hard for many of us to ship it off for engraving and get it back in hand by the deadline.

When this purchase option was first posted I almost went for it immediately. I really wanted to jump all over it. I weighed the possibilities and decided that their was a low likelihood that these would release before the deadline but that if they did I could more then likely find a last minute source. So I opted not to order early on because I didn't want the hassle of requesting a refund if it couldn't be here in time for me to complete it. I keep checking back on this thread because I am hoping to hear good news but as the days tick away I am less hopeful. If they do start shipping in the next week I would still jump on it.
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  #242  
Old 06-11-2018, 1:03 PM
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My family will take the hit on all the PayPal refunds... I wont be doing anymore group buys. I ordered these with the money from your orders. I'm pretty easy going but I'm not the glockstore. Not a million dollar company. Everybody knew it was a preorder so I assumed they would understand. Sorry but the glockstore screwed this up and it's not fair for the customers or me to get stuck out of money.... for all those guys out there that have been awesome and understanding I really appreciate you guys!
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  #243  
Old 06-11-2018, 2:54 PM
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I am keeping my word. I made a deal to purchase an item that is unavailable at this time. I gave seller my money to hold until such time as the product becomes available. I waited almost 2 years for .300 boolits one time. I have patience and am getting ready to purchase a sig p320 kit next. Too each their own, I guess. My word is good as gold...
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  #244  
Old 06-11-2018, 4:03 PM
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And my family appreciates that brother!!
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  #245  
Old 06-19-2018, 3:39 PM
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So I take it we are SOL at this point with no updates?
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  #246  
Old 06-19-2018, 4:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 4EverPouring3WM View Post
So I take it we are SOL at this point with no updates?
If Glockstore has no updates, there are no updates, correct.
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  #247  
Old 06-20-2018, 2:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
If Glockstore has no updates, there are no updates, correct.
Thank you, I know that glockstore is the manufacturer however I do not follow them. I figured that I may get some insight here seeing as this is where our money was donated.
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  #248  
Old 06-20-2018, 3:36 AM
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So, what happens if we get it after the deadline?
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  #249  
Old 06-20-2018, 6:26 AM
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You keep it as a 80% paperweight as it will be illegal to build. And do rhe same with the parts kit or try to sell it to some one.
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So, what happens if we get it after the deadline?
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Last edited by nbk9nbk; 06-20-2018 at 8:07 AM..
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  #250  
Old 06-20-2018, 7:54 AM
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Originally Posted by 4EverPouring3WM View Post
Thank you, I know that glockstore is the manufacturer however I do not follow them. I figured that I may get some insight here seeing as this is where our money was donated.
I think this thread will be updated as soon as any news from Glockstore is provided. Many on this thread are monitoring Glockstore (such as myself).
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  #251  
Old 06-20-2018, 9:03 AM
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Could probably sell to someone in a free state . May take a hit and some time but I'm sure you could find a buyer eventually
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So, what happens if we get it after the deadline?
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  #252  
Old 06-20-2018, 9:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thegovernor[559] View Post
Could probably sell out of state . May take a hit and some time but I'm sure you could find a buyer eventually


That’s my plan. You won’t take a hit with the pricing though. I think if you’re smart you could make money, but there will be time and effort involved.
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  #253  
Old 06-20-2018, 9:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
I think this thread will be updated as soon as any news from Glockstore is provided. Many on this thread are monitoring Glockstore (such as myself).
Every day.

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  #254  
Old 06-20-2018, 10:02 AM
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This sucks for everyone involved..... Still wondering how Lenny would make this right
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  #255  
Old 06-20-2018, 10:22 AM
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I never held glockstore to very high regards
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  #256  
Old 06-20-2018, 1:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 4EverPouring3WM View Post
Thank you, I know that glockstore is the manufacturer however I do not follow them. I figured that I may get some insight here seeing as this is where our money was donated.
Wait. Isn't Polymer80 the manufacturer? Glockstore's just a distributor, right?
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  #257  
Old 06-20-2018, 1:34 PM
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Wait. Isn't Polymer80 the manufacturer? Glockstore's just a distributor, right?
Correct but I think P80 did it under contract for GS as a GS product not a P80 product. If that is correct then all issues with it would go through GS not P80.
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  #258  
Old 06-20-2018, 2:08 PM
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I have 2 questions.
1) The SS80 comes with a metal plate embedded. Is there anything documented to suggest this plate is insufficient? Or are we going off assumptions being made about the weight of this plate?

2) If the plate is insufficient, or even if it's not, couldn't Glockstore make it right by us by assigning serial numbers as the FFL? Or is there some part of this I'm not catching?

11 CCR § 5508

Firearms Not Affected by This Chapter Pursuant to Penal Code Section 29181. The following firearms are not affected by these regulations and do not have to be recorded with the Department:
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(d) A firearm containing a serial number pursuant to Chapter 53 of Title 26 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto. Hence, if the individual's firearm already has a serial number issued to it by a Federal Firearms Licensee, whether it is an already functionally complete firearm or just a receiver or frame by itself, the individual does not have to reapply for a Department-issued unique serial number.


I'm asking honestly, so please don't respond with ridicule or snide remarks. Thanks!
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  #259  
Old 06-20-2018, 3:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ArmedAngel View Post

2) If the plate is insufficient, or even if it's not, couldn't Glockstore make it right by us by assigning serial numbers as the FFL? Or is there some part of this I'm not catching?



They would have to essentially create an online form to process that, process the information, engrave everything, and then ship them out within the next 9 days or so.

Not gonna happen.
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  #260  
Old 06-20-2018, 3:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmedAngel View Post
I have 2 questions.
1) The SS80 comes with a metal plate embedded. Is there anything documented to suggest this plate is insufficient? Or are we going off assumptions being made about the weight of this plate?
I think this begs the question, "How would anyone know the weight of the plate is insufficient?"

Wouldn't they have to destroy your property (i.e., crack open your frame) to rip the plate out to weigh it?
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  #261  
Old 06-20-2018, 3:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmedAngel View Post
I have 2 questions.
1) The SS80 comes with a metal plate embedded. Is there anything documented to suggest this plate is insufficient? Or are we going off assumptions being made about the weight of this plate?

2) If the plate is insufficient, or even if it's not, couldn't Glockstore make it right by us by assigning serial numbers as the FFL? Or is there some part of this I'm not catching?

11 CCR § 5508

Firearms Not Affected by This Chapter Pursuant to Penal Code Section 29181. The following firearms are not affected by these regulations and do not have to be recorded with the Department:
...
(d) A firearm containing a serial number pursuant to Chapter 53 of Title 26 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto. Hence, if the individual's firearm already has a serial number issued to it by a Federal Firearms Licensee, whether it is an already functionally complete firearm or just a receiver or frame by itself, the individual does not have to reapply for a Department-issued unique serial number.


I'm asking honestly, so please don't respond with ridicule or snide remarks. Thanks!
I'll take a shot at #1. Since this is produced by P80 and the GS has not indicated that it has been produced to meet the new CA requirements I would venture to guess that the plate will be similar to the marking plates in the current P80 80% Glock frames. That is just a small tab of metal big enough to put a serial number and name on. Remember that when you get outside of CA these are not requirements and these frames are not produced just for CA. Producing all frames to meet CA rules runs the price up for everyone.

Even it is done by a FFL, wouldn't it have to be on the roster?
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  #262  
Old 06-21-2018, 6:32 AM
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The ss80 is not produced by P80.... its is 100% glockstores product... I will update the forum as soon as I know something...
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  #263  
Old 06-21-2018, 6:51 AM
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Thanks for the correction, it had been put out that P80 had manufactured it several times without any challenge.

100%? That is a lot of effort for one item, is going to fully compete with P80 in the future?
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  #264  
Old 06-21-2018, 7:38 AM
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Thanks for the correction, it had been put out that P80 had manufactured it several times without any challenge.

100%? That is a lot of effort for one item, is going to fully compete with P80 in the future?
In this scenario I don't think the manufacturing is the issue. Glockstore is waiting on ATF approval. Unless you mean that P80 has different contacts at ATF and their approval would be faster than Glockstore then P80 would be in the exact same boat. Waiting for the wheels of gubment to turn.
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  #265  
Old 06-21-2018, 8:31 AM
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I know that it is currently an ATF certification issue.

What I was wondering was if the GS is going to full out compete with P80?
I was an initial P80 customer on the first 80% AR lower, in early on the pre-sale while they were still in Vacaville. That whole process was well documented on CG, it was a very involved process. Molds being made, types of polymers to consider using and the manufacturing QC. They contracted the first ones to be built in China and had initial issues. Those guys worked hard to get through all that. It certainly left me with the impression that there is a big learning process to go through as with any new endeavor.

If the GS has or is going through the learning process then I would expect them to utilize their new experience/skills and develop more polymer 80% products in the future.

As for the possibility P80 having better ATF connections. I don't know, I would hope that the ATF treats all the same. I think instead it may be a case of P80 just having more experience with the 80% certification process.
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  #266  
Old 06-21-2018, 8:44 AM
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I know that it is currently an ATF certification issue.
...
As for the possibility P80 having better ATF connections. I don't know, I would hope that the ATF treats all the same. I think instead it may be a case of P80 just having more experience with the 80% certification process.
Ah that's true. We don't know how much "back-and-forth" GS has had to do for paperwork corrections, or clarifications that P80 likely could have bypassed with their experience.
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  #267  
Old 06-21-2018, 10:33 AM
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Something for those who are thinking of selling it (because of the 7-1 cut-off) to consider doing: If you had asked F&F to engrave it then you should cancel that as it will make it damn near impossible to sell the lower.
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  #268  
Old 06-21-2018, 11:38 AM
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They don't make them in house . A company (not p80 ) makes them for the glock store
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  #269  
Old 06-22-2018, 11:33 AM
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Anyone know what this means:
Quote:
SS80 Update!

Now let's talk about some big news for the GlockStore and for all our customers… and especially for our California customers who have been patiently waiting for the inaugural shipment of the SS80 80% Lower.

We have upgraded our FFL to a Type 7, which classifies us a Manufacturer of Firearms.

This also gives us the ability to legally "serialize" 80% lowers under the provisions of California Assembly Bill #857, aka AB-857 Firearms: Identifying Information.

As this will be an ongoing need in the California firearm community, we will be launching our new 80% Lower Serialization Service in July. We are estimating the cost will be somewhere in the $25 to $50 range, depending on the required parameters.

Now, not to bore you, but a BIG REASON we did this is to allow us to legally engrave serial numbers on the SS80 Lowers for our California customers… and there are a lot of you! More on the that later in this email.

And, of course, this also concerns our many thousands of Polymer80 customers in California, both past and present.

To try and make this somewhat less obtuse than assessing the actual Assembly Bill, we will condense it somewhat… with the caveat that we are NOT lawyers, and this is NOT legal advice. It is only how we understand the bill as currently written.

For this attempt at condensation, let's define three groups of 80% Lower owners.

G-1) People who have already received and completed their 80% Lower.

G-2) People who have received but not yet completed their 80% Lower.

G-3) People who have not yet received their 80% Lower.

Now there are two dates that are significant for California customers, as defined by AB-857. Those dates are July 1st, 2018 and January 1, 2019.

If you are in groups G-1 or G-2, you have until July 1st to finish your build and assign it your own unique serial number. The CA DOJ has yet to release specs on exactly what information needs to be included, as well as the specifications as to the actual engraving, but in reality there is only so much room on the serial ID plate.

There is, however, a requirement that it cannot be a number currently used by any other, previously registered firearm. And that means almost any number you come up with is pretty much hit or miss.

Lenny Magill has suggested using your Drivers License number, as it is certainly unique, i.e. A1234567. Multiple 80% Lowers could contain a suffix designating the different firearms, as in A12345671, A12345672.

If you are in the G-2 group, meaning that you have received, but not completed your 80% Lower by July 1st, 2018, then you must apply to the California DOJ for a serial number within 10 days from completing the build.

Any 80% Lowers purchased and/or completed after July 1st — the G-3 group — must apply for a CA DOJ issued serial number and have it engraved within 10 days after completion.

On January 1, 2019, the law states that if you completed your 80% Lower before July 1st, but HAVE NOT yet added your own, unique serial number, then that option is no longer available to you. You must then apply for a serial number from the CA DOJ.

Finally, after January 1, 2019, all 80% Lowers built in California must be serialized, with a California issued serial number, within 10 days after completion.

WOW… could it get any more complicated?!?!

Anyway, here are a couple of links that you might need. At least you might need them if you've made it this far into the email and you live in California!

Here is the link to download the current New Serial Number Application and a link to the California Firearms Application Reporting System (CFARS).

The New Serial Number Application may change after July 1st, so you might wait to download it until then.


Now, let's move onto the SS80 and, specifically, our California customers.

Literally, as I was write this, we have finally heard from the Washington DC attorney we hired specifically to petition the ATF as to the SS80 Determination Letter.

It seems that our long-delayed SS80 Determination Letter is actually being reviewed in the UPPER ECHELONS of the ATF.

Now we'd like to think that it is just the SS80 that has garnered such attention, being such an advanced version of the concept. But it seems the entire 80% Lower concept, and what it entails, is also being reviewed.

It seems there are a number of aspects under discussion. Just as an example, we may end up delivering the actual lower, the jig, and the tools required to finish it in separate shipments.

We were told that there will be a decision on various aspects of 80% Lowers, including the SS80 Designation, within three weeks… hopefully sometime in mid-July.

At that time, we fully expect to receive the 80% Lower designation on the SS80. But since the California law states an 80% Lower must be completed before July 1st to utilize owner generated serial numbers, our California SS80 Customers will need to apply for a California DOJ serial number and have it engraved on their SS80s to be compliant.

Because of this, Lenny has decided we will engrave ALL California SS80 Pre-Orders for FREE!

In fact, if you are one of our California SS80 Pre-Order customers… you should order your serial number now as we are looking into ways to serialize your SS80 80% Lower BEFORE it ships! Subject, of course, to California guidelines, once they become finalized.
I thought the problem was that it wasn't enough metal post 7/1/2018?
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  #270  
Old 06-22-2018, 11:36 AM
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How does the handgun roster requirements play into this??
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  #271  
Old 06-22-2018, 11:41 AM
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I believe this is what I was referring to in my #2 question!

While we won't have our own chosen number, we'll be able to have it legally registered. The weight requirement wouldn't apply.

11 CCR § 5508

Firearms Not Affected by This Chapter Pursuant to Penal Code Section 29181. The following firearms are not affected by these regulations and do not have to be recorded with the Department:
...
(d) A firearm containing a serial number pursuant to Chapter 53 of Title 26 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto. Hence, if the individual's firearm already has a serial number issued to it by a Federal Firearms Licensee, whether it is an already functionally complete firearm or just a receiver or frame by itself, the individual does not have to reapply for a Department-issued unique serial number.
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Old 06-22-2018, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ArmedAngel View Post
I believe this is what I was referring to in my #2 question!

While we won't have our own chosen number, we'll be able to have it legally registered. The weight requirement wouldn't apply.

11 CCR § 5508

Firearms Not Affected by This Chapter Pursuant to Penal Code Section 29181. The following firearms are not affected by these regulations and do not have to be recorded with the Department:
...
(d) A firearm containing a serial number pursuant to Chapter 53 of Title 26 of the United States Code and regulations issued pursuant thereto. Hence, if the individual's firearm already has a serial number issued to it by a Federal Firearms Licensee, whether it is an already functionally complete firearm or just a receiver or frame by itself, the individual does not have to reapply for a Department-issued unique serial number.
You might want to check the definition of "Firearm" as it pertains to Chapter 53 of Title 26...
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5845
Quote:
Originally Posted by 26 U.S. Code § 5845 - Definitions
(a) Firearm
The term “firearm” means (1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (5) any other weapon, as defined in subsection (e); (6) a machinegun; (7) any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and (8) a destructive device. The term “firearm” shall not include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machinegun or destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the Secretary finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector’s item and is not likely to be used as a weapon.
I think I know what you are getting at, but you probably meant the exemption under PC 29181 (a), and it sorta makes sense, BUT it's a huge stretch. Unless they are actually assigning the serial number, I don't see how we would get away with trying to claim that exemption.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=29181.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PC 29181
Section 29180 does not apply to or affect any of the following:
(a) A firearm that has a serial number assigned to it pursuant to either Section 23910 or Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Part 1 of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/478.92
Quote:
Originally Posted by 27 CFR § 478.92
(a)
(1)Firearms. You, as a licensed manufacturer or licensed importer of firearms, must legibly identify each firearm manufactured or imported as follows:
Not to mention, that if they are engraving a unfinished lower/frame, that would not classify the item being engraved as a firearm, otherwise we would not be able to purchase them without going through an FFL

The only benefit I see of them having an FFL 07 is that you would be able to send them a completed lower/frame for engraving.
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Old 06-22-2018, 12:56 PM
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This is officially a cluster____. Why would Lenny use this attorney? Jason Davis does almost ALL of the ATF 80% determinations, I can't help but think this would have been over with if Lenny had hired Jason for this. Now the whole country might have new restrictions on 80% builds.

Second, this is clearly a misleading announcement in regards to California customers. I can only imagine he's trying to preserve the orders he has on the books in California (especially from the folks who purchased slides and parts kits and will want refunds). He could have consulted an attorney instead of writing up a useless "action plan" where he doesn't even label each scenario correctly. "I'm not a lawyer, but you should definitely keep the stuff you ordered from me, don't worry"

The fact we will all have to accept is that it will be much more complicated to legally build these frames after July 1st and don't let Lenny tell you it will all be better if he engraves it for you.
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Old 06-22-2018, 1:02 PM
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Was there an announcement today?
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Old 06-22-2018, 1:13 PM
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Was there an announcement today?
I got that announcement in email minutes before I posted it.
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Old 06-22-2018, 1:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajb78 View Post
You might want to check the definition of "Firearm" as it pertains to Chapter 53 of Title 26...
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5845


I think I know what you are getting at, but you probably meant the exemption under PC 29181 (a), and it sorta makes sense, BUT it's a huge stretch. Unless they are actually assigning the serial number, I don't see how we would get away with trying to claim that exemption.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=29181.


https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/478.92


Not to mention, that if they are engraving a unfinished lower/frame, that would not classify the item being engraved as a firearm, otherwise we would not be able to purchase them without going through an FFL

The only benefit I see of them having an FFL 07 is that you would be able to send them a completed lower/frame for engraving.
I agree with all of this. Not sure why he is proclaiming that "upgrading" his FFL (which you can't do) will save the day. You don't need that to engrave a non-firearm.

They probably applied for their 07 paperwork some time ago and now they got it. Not sure how it helps us though. They might have longer term plans on building custom glocks (like Zev) which is likely why they got their 07.
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Old 06-22-2018, 3:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ugimports View Post
I agree with all of this. Not sure why he is proclaiming that "upgrading" his FFL (which you can't do) will save the day. You don't need that to engrave a non-firearm.

They probably applied for their 07 paperwork some time ago and now they got it. Not sure how it helps us though. They might have longer term plans on building custom glocks (like Zev) which is likely why they got their 07.
Seems like a distraction to me....look, squirrel



Quote:
Originally Posted by SS80 UPDATE
There is, however, a requirement that it cannot be a number currently used by any other, previously registered firearm. And that means almost any number you come up with is pretty much hit or miss.
Isn't this is completely false as well? Just can't be the same serial, from the same manufacturer, correct?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS80 UPDATE
Lenny Magill has suggested using your Drivers License number, as it is certainly unique, i.e. A1234567. Multiple 80% Lowers could contain a suffix designating the different firearms, as in A12345671, A12345672.
Sure Lenny, let me engrave my Social Security number and ATM PIN number on there as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS80 UPDATE
On January 1, 2019, the law states that if you completed your 80% Lower before July 1st, but HAVE NOT yet added your own, unique serial number, then that option is no longer available to you. You must then apply for a serial number from the CA DOJ.
Wrong, for a unserialized, self-manufactured, firearm, that was completed prior to July 1st, 2018 and is not recorded in the centralized database, one must apply for the CA DOJ issued serial number prior to January 1, 2019. After January 1, 2019 you would be in violation of the law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS80 UPDATE
WOW… could it get any more complicated?!?!
Yes, keep speading
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS80 UPDATE
Here is the link to download the current New Serial Number Application and a link to the California Firearms Application Reporting System (CFARS).

The New Serial Number Application may change after July 1st, so you might wait to download it until then.
CA DOJ has said that the serial number form for AB857 issued serials will be different, not may be different, and the AB857 regulations say that the process will be online.
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Old 06-22-2018, 4:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajb78 View Post
You might want to check the definition of "Firearm" as it pertains to Chapter 53 of Title 26...
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5845


I think I know what you are getting at, but you probably meant the exemption under PC 29181 (a), and it sorta makes sense, BUT it's a huge stretch. Unless they are actually assigning the serial number, I don't see how we would get away with trying to claim that exemption.

Thanks for the linked reference.
Since I was referencing the California Code of Regulations, I was going off the definition provided earlier in the section.


16520. (a) As used in this part, “firearm” means a device, designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled through a barrel, a projectile by the force of an explosion or other form of combustion.
(b) As used in the following provisions, “firearm” includes the frame or receiver of the weapon:
(13) Section 29180


https://govt.westlaw.com/calregs/Doc...ta=(sc.Default)


However, I still am not presuming to have the legal or political background and knowledge to predict the interpretation of these statements.
That interpretation, and subsequent application, of the CCR is at the whim of the state & seems to change course daily, if not more frequently.

Last edited by ArmedAngel; 06-22-2018 at 4:32 PM..
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  #279  
Old 06-22-2018, 4:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmedAngel View Post
Since I was referencing the California Code of Regulations, I was going off the definition provided earlier in the section.


16520. (a) As used in this part, “firearm” means a device, designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled through a barrel, a projectile by the force of an explosion or other form of combustion.
(b) As used in the following provisions, “firearm” includes the frame or receiver of the weapon:
(13) Section 29180


https://govt.westlaw.com/calregs/Doc...ta=(sc.Default)


However, I still am not presuming to have the legal or political background and knowledge to predict the interpretation of these statements.
The interpretation, and subsequent application, of the CCR is at the whim of the state & seems to change course daily, if not more frequently.
I don't think you can apply the CA definition of "firearm" to Federal regulations.

So even if it qualifies as a "firearm" for the CCR, it would not qualify to have a serial number pursuant to the federal regulations, because in the relevant CFR, it is not a "firearm".
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Old 06-22-2018, 4:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmedAngel View Post
Thanks for the linked reference.
Since I was referencing the California Code of Regulations, I was going off the definition provided earlier in the section.


16520. (a) As used in this part, “firearm” means a device, designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled through a barrel, a projectile by the force of an explosion or other form of combustion.
(b) As used in the following provisions, “firearm” includes the frame or receiver of the weapon:

(13) Section 29180


https://govt.westlaw.com/calregs/Doc...ta=(sc.Default)


However, I still am not presuming to have the legal or political background and knowledge to predict the interpretation of these statements.
That interpretation, and subsequent application, of the CCR is at the whim of the state & seems to change course daily, if not more frequently.
An "80%" doesn't meet the definition of that until it's complete. Before it's complete it's just a part.
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