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  #81  
Old 04-04-2018, 8:24 AM
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Can you please specify how the mags are being blocked? Are there no 10rd factory mags available?
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  #82  
Old 04-04-2018, 8:25 AM
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I'm a little worried about this. I've built a few 80's both pistol and rifle. I would like a 320 but the cost to build is coming in at a high premium over the MSRP of a complete one from SIG. Next worry which ties into the first is the jig. I'm not on evil Facebook so I can't see his video, so I'm a little short on the method info. How do you drill precise holes without a jig? And, unless something has changed (I hope it has) the ATF frowns on loaning and renting jigs which is what stopped the 80% build parties for the AK and AR. If that is true then we all will need a jig @$150.00.

I know the P80 builds I've done cost more than buying a G17 but part of that reason was that there are so many after market Glock parts that a P80 comes out as a custom gun and the 320 will be a stock SIG at a higher price than a factory SIG. Stock or not, I'm sure the 320 will be a very nice pistol.

So to me the question comes down to "Do I want to build a 320 at a large premium in order to have one in California?". I also have to wonder if SIG has any plans to put it on the rooster in CA?
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  #83  
Old 04-04-2018, 8:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrassCase View Post
I'm a little worried about this. I've built a few 80's both pistol and rifle. I would like a 320 but the cost to build is coming in at a high premium over the MSRP of a complete one from SIG. Next worry which ties into the first is the jig. I'm not on evil Facebook so I can't see his video, so I'm a little short on the method info. How do you drill precise holes without a jig? And, unless something has changed (I hope it has) the ATF frowns on loaning and renting jigs which is what stopped the 80% build parties for the AK and AR. If that is true then we all will need a jig @$150.00.

I know the P80 builds I've done cost more than buying a G17 but part of that reason was that there are so many after market Glock parts that a P80 comes out as a custom gun and the 320 will be a stock SIG at a higher price than a factory SIG. Stock or not, I'm sure the 320 will be a very nice pistol.

So to me the question comes down to "Do I want to build a 320 at a large premium in order to have one in California?". I also have to wonder if SIG has any plans to put it on the rooster in CA?
The Sig P320 isn't on Roster is it?? If not it will never make it due to micro stamping requirement...so factor in the premium for an off roster pistol...

People usually build 80s for pleasure and/or for under the radar.... Not to save money

I thought build parties were prohibitted because people were paying to push a button and use CNC machines to finish their 80s...if you rented a CNC and set everything up yourself, this wouldn't be a problem. And people buy jigs, use them, and then sell them all the time. Nothing illegal about it. As long as the owner puts in the effort and energy to finish it all by himself, the ATF is okay with it.

Last edited by Paperchasin; 04-04-2018 at 8:46 AM..
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  #84  
Old 04-04-2018, 8:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrassCase View Post
I'm a little worried about this. I've built a few 80's both pistol and rifle. I would like a 320 but the cost to build is coming in at a high premium over the MSRP of a complete one from SIG. Next worry which ties into the first is the jig. I'm not on evil Facebook so I can't see his video, so I'm a little short on the method info. How do you drill precise holes without a jig? And, unless something has changed (I hope it has) the ATF frowns on loaning and renting jigs which is what stopped the 80% build parties for the AK and AR. If that is true then we all will need a jig @$150.00.

I know the P80 builds I've done cost more than buying a G17 but part of that reason was that there are so many after market Glock parts that a P80 comes out as a custom gun and the 320 will be a stock SIG at a higher price than a factory SIG. Stock or not, I'm sure the 320 will be a very nice pistol.

So to me the question comes down to "Do I want to build a 320 at a large premium in order to have one in California?". I also have to wonder if SIG has any plans to put it on the rooster in CA?
Since 2015, haven't any additions to the roster required the much lauded by Democrats yet entirely fictional microstamping "functionality?" It's my understanding that no new firearms can ever be added to the roster at this point. Which is one reason why it is a farce, pretending to save us from our own stupidity and demanding us to use guns deemed "safe" by the state, while actually banning newly designed guns with legitimate safety features.
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  #85  
Old 04-04-2018, 8:45 AM
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No button to push at an AK build party. I think the microstamping is going away because the technology doesn't support it. Part of the AR party was renting the mill and jig. They gave a class first on how to but those got shut down as well. Notice that you can't even rent a jig to do an 80% AR.
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  #86  
Old 04-04-2018, 8:46 AM
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I also have to wonder if SIG has any plans to put it on the rooster in CA?
There isnít a chance for sig to put it on the CA Roster. The requirements are too strict for gun manufacturers to comply (microstamping etc). Since the roster parameters were updated a while back, not a single semi-auto pistol has been added to the roster (that wasnít on previously/grandfathered)

About your second concern of price. You are right. You are paying a premium. You can probably find this deal for a bit less if you took your time searching and purchasing parts yourself, waiting for sales, and using coupons. The 80% and the jig are exclusive (or semi-exclusive), but none of the other sig parts are. You can find them and combine them with sales and coupons on many websites. Youíre paying a premium to skip that process and expedite all the parts going to your house. All the parts except for the jig.... and yes people are paying a premium bc this gun is off roster and we want nice things here in Cali too
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  #87  
Old 04-04-2018, 8:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paperchasin View Post
The Sig P320 isn't on Roster is it?? If not it will never make it due to micro stamping requirement...so factor in the premium for an off roster pistol...

People usually build 80s for pleasure and/or for under the radar.... Not to save money

I thought build parties were prohibitted because people were paying to push a button and use CNC machines to finish their 80s...
Like many of the rules and regulations regarding firearms, the ATF's position seems intentionally vague when it comes to sharing equipment necessary to "manufacture" firearms.
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  #88  
Old 04-04-2018, 8:50 AM
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Like many of the rules and regulations regarding firearms, the ATF's position seems intentionally vague when it comes to sharing equipment necessary to "manufacture" firearms.
Don't over think this... Just fork out the $150 for the jig... Use it.. then sell it. Consider the small.loss a rental fee. Done! I would personally rather do this then use a free jig that's been previously used 25 times. As long as you're not a part of some massive build where people are cranking out numerous firearms in one sitting I wouldn't worry too much...

Last edited by Paperchasin; 04-04-2018 at 8:53 AM..
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  #89  
Old 04-04-2018, 8:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrassCase View Post
I'm a little worried about this. I've built a few 80's both pistol and rifle. I would like a 320 but the cost to build is coming in at a high premium over the MSRP of a complete one from SIG. Next worry which ties into the first is the jig. I'm not on evil Facebook so I can't see his video, so I'm a little short on the method info. How do you drill precise holes without a jig? And, unless something has changed (I hope it has) the ATF frowns on loaning and renting jigs which is what stopped the 80% build parties for the AK and AR. If that is true then we all will need a jig @$150.00.



I know the P80 builds I've done cost more than buying a G17 but part of that reason was that there are so many after market Glock parts that a P80 comes out as a custom gun and the 320 will be a stock SIG at a higher price than a factory SIG. Stock or not, I'm sure the 320 will be a very nice pistol.



So to me the question comes down to "Do I want to build a 320 at a large premium in order to have one in California?". I also have to wonder if SIG has any plans to put it on the rooster in CA?

I donít know that itís a large premium in this case. At $650 all in, you are at list price in free states. Letís break it down a different way. Letís say budís has the 320 listed for $499 and you could buy it in CA. You would pay an FFL $50-60 + dros and sales tax to bring it in. So all in youíre around $630 OTD for a factory one which as we all know we canít get here. So yes you are paying a premium vs free state pricing, but I wouldnít call t a large premium.

If the jig concerns you, you can buy it and then sell it for $30-40 less than you bought it for.


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  #90  
Old 04-04-2018, 9:07 AM
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So it sounds like Chris got his hands on some of the 320 X-Carry that could ship out in a week and a half if anyone is interested in those. This is a smaller version of the X5.

Last edited by nubrun; 04-04-2018 at 9:42 AM..
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  #91  
Old 04-04-2018, 9:28 AM
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Interested in jumping on this
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  #92  
Old 04-04-2018, 9:30 AM
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Sooo tempted. the only question left is to X5 or not. It seems like the X5 is a much better deal. gonna buy extra mags and a flat trigger anyway, so that's already at least $100. So basically, $180 for a milled slide, bull barrel...
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  #93  
Old 04-04-2018, 9:41 AM
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Selling the jig after use is the right way.
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  #94  
Old 04-04-2018, 9:52 AM
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Deadline for this deal?
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  #95  
Old 04-04-2018, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by F&F FIREARMS View Post
Your 80% glock is fine to build. Just have it engraved with your info
Just engraving doesn't make it legal, correct? It would have to be built as a single shot first, as I understand it.
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  #96  
Old 04-04-2018, 10:39 AM
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Just engraving doesn't make it legal, correct? It would have to be built as a single shot first, as I understand it.
Correct, everyone here is building it as a single shot first in order to comply. As noted above in order to be ab857 compliant we also need to serialize the frames.
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  #97  
Old 04-04-2018, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by nubrun View Post
Correct, everyone here is building it as a single shot first in order to comply. As noted above in order to be ab857 compliant we also need to serialize the frames.


If there is a shared jig, it would be nice to have a zero capacity magazine to go with it. Correct me if Iím wrong on this.


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  #98  
Old 04-04-2018, 10:51 AM
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If there is a shared jig, it would be nice to have a zero capacity magazine to go with it. Correct me if Iím wrong on this.


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People will need to handle a zero cap mag and single shot configurations on their own. There are too many variations to handle it communally.


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  #99  
Old 04-04-2018, 11:49 AM
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People will need to handle a zero cap mag and single shot configurations on their own. There are too many variations to handle it communally.
If you disassemble the mag, remove the spring and floor plate, would that make a zero round mag? Or to be safer, put a wooden dowel in as a spacer and replace the floor plate?
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  #100  
Old 04-04-2018, 11:55 AM
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Correct, everyone here is building it as a single shot first in order to comply. As noted above in order to be ab857 compliant we also need to serialize the frames.
I'm coming into this a little cold and late (regarding 80%'s) but to clarify, for AB857 I need to single shot first then apply MY OWN serial number? I understand there is something in the text regarding July 1, 2018 and I've heard the phrase volreg before; can someone clarify what serial number would need to be engraved and if this would change once July 1, 2018 has passed?
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Old 04-04-2018, 11:58 AM
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The fcu has to be engraved to comply. The window only shows serial number but the name and city is also engraved
So engraving the FCU is enough to comply with SB808? We don't need to embed the 307oz of steel in the frame itself?

(Sorry if I'm being overly cautious, I love the idea of buying this kit but I want to make sure I dont end up with another plastic paperweight like my old p80 frame haha!)
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  #102  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:00 PM
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So engraving the FCU is enough to comply with SB808? We don't need to embed the 307oz of steel in the frame itself?



(Sorry if I'm being overly cautious, I love the idea of buying this kit but I want to make sure I dont end up with another plastic paperweight like my old p80 frame haha!)


That is correct. The FCU is the firearm in this case.


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  #103  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:05 PM
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Regarding AB 857, here is a good write up:
ďPer federal law, an individual building a firearm for personal use is not required to mark it with a serial number.

Some states may have more restrictive regulations. The following is for California residents ONLY: In July 2016, California passed AB 857 which requires all completed firearms to have a serial number applied by Jan 1, 2019. An 80% lower is not a firearm, so a serial number would only be required once the 80% lower is completed. Unfinished 80% lower receivers do not need a serial number.

You may engrave a serial number of your choosing into your completed 80% lower prior to Jul 1, 2018. In other words, you can make up any serial number you want (as long as it meets ATF's definition of a serial number), engrave it on your receiver, and this will satisfy Californiaís legal requirement.

After July, 2018, the law changes for the worse. If you build an 80% lower after July 1, 2018, you must FIRST apply to the California DOJ for a serial number, pay a fee, and they will then assign a serial number that you must apply to your firearm. In this case, you canít choose your own serial number.

If you build an 80% lower and use your own ďunregistered" serial number after July 2018, it would be a misdemeanor.Ē
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  #104  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:53 PM
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Drilling the holes with the jig is straight forward, but how do we bend the rails? Is there an extra tool that I will need, or is the metal malleable enough to be bent by hand?
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  #105  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:56 PM
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Default $649 Sig P320 80% Build Kit Group Buy

The jig is two parts. You out the frame in the bottom portion and then then is an upper part that you press down inside of the bottom jig and frame which forces the rail tabs to bend. We are working in getting the video to post up here.





Last edited by nubrun; 04-04-2018 at 12:59 PM..
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  #106  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:57 PM
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Drilling the holes with the jig is straight forward, but how do we bend the rails? Is there an extra tool that I will need, or is the metal malleable enough to be bent by hand?
There's a jig. I saw a video of someone placing the jig over the tabs and hammered the jig to bend the tabs. I assume a press would be better.
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  #107  
Old 04-04-2018, 1:00 PM
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There's a jig. I saw a video of someone placing the jig over the tabs and hammered the jig to bend the tabs. I assume a press would be better.


Lol- thatís not the best video, but it does show how simple the process is and how primitive the tools can be. A press would definitely be simpler.
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  #108  
Old 04-04-2018, 1:35 PM
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Lol- thatís not the best video, but it does show how simple the process is and how primitive the tools can be. A press would definitely be simpler.
Thanks for the better pics. I'm so close to pulling the trigger. Trying to justify the extra $ for the X5.
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  #109  
Old 04-04-2018, 1:36 PM
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There is the RX models too which are in between. I have the compact RX and it feels great.


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  #110  
Old 04-04-2018, 1:59 PM
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There is the RX models too which are in between. I have the compact RX and it feels great.


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I assume the difference in size between the RX and X5 is like Glock 19 vs 17?
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  #111  
Old 04-04-2018, 2:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jingerale View Post
I assume the difference in size between the RX and X5 is like Glock 19 vs 17?
The full size models are similar to a glock 17, I believe they have a 4.7Ē barrel. The compacts are similar to the 19ís with a 3.9Ē barrel. And then there is the carry model which is a full size grip and compact slide.

The X5 is the Competition ready full size gun:


Full size 320:


Full size RX:


Compact:


Compact RX:
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  #112  
Old 04-04-2018, 2:26 PM
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Originally Posted by nubrun View Post
Regarding AB 857, here is a good write up:
ďPer federal law, an individual building a firearm for personal use is not required to mark it with a serial number.

Some states may have more restrictive regulations. The following is for California residents ONLY: In July 2016, California passed AB 857 which requires all completed firearms to have a serial number applied by Jan 1, 2019. An 80% lower is not a firearm, so a serial number would only be required once the 80% lower is completed. Unfinished 80% lower receivers do not need a serial number.

You may engrave a serial number of your choosing into your completed 80% lower prior to Jul 1, 2018. In other words, you can make up any serial number you want (as long as it meets ATF's definition of a serial number), engrave it on your receiver, and this will satisfy Californiaís legal requirement.

After July, 2018, the law changes for the worse. If you build an 80% lower after July 1, 2018, you must FIRST apply to the California DOJ for a serial number, pay a fee, and they will then assign a serial number that you must apply to your firearm. In this case, you canít choose your own serial number.

If you build an 80% lower and use your own ďunregistered" serial number after July 2018, it would be a misdemeanor.Ē

Thanks for the explanation. In that case, I am way way interested!
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  #113  
Old 04-04-2018, 2:51 PM
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Originally Posted by nubrun View Post
So it sounds like Chris got his hands on some of the 320 X-Carry that could ship out in a week and a half if anyone is interested in those. This is a smaller version of the X5.
I'm interested in the X-Carry and X5. Is there pricing yet for the X-Carry?
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Old 04-04-2018, 2:57 PM
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munkeeboi munkeeboi is offline
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I'm interested in the X-Carry and X5. Is there pricing yet for the X-Carry?
I would contact Chris directly. He can tell you price as well as anything else you need to know
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Old 04-04-2018, 3:11 PM
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nubrun nubrun is offline
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Originally Posted by 3xX View Post
I'm interested in the X-Carry and X5. Is there pricing yet for the X-Carry?
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Originally Posted by munkeeboi View Post
I would contact Chris directly. He can tell you price as well as anything else you need to know
I suggest contacting Chris directly, fnffirearms@gmail.com or call/text at (714) 293-2273. Last I heard the X5 and X-carry were priced the same. I know he has another X-carry, but the X5 is a few people deep now, so the wait could be a few weeks.
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Old 04-04-2018, 3:15 PM
jingerale jingerale is offline
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Just talked to Chris, nice guy. The RX is $30 more than the X5, due to the red dot.

So $960 for the RX.

oh boy, decisions decisions.
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Old 04-04-2018, 3:19 PM
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Just talked to Chris, nice guy. The RX is $30 more than the X5, due to the red dot.

So $960 for the RX.

oh boy, decisions decisions.
Or buy the X5 and add a Romeo 1 as funds allow. The slide is already milled to accept it. Or you can buy an RX kit later and you would already have the sweet X5 trigger when you swap the RX kit on.
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  #118  
Old 04-04-2018, 3:23 PM
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So the "RX" models have the cutout on the slide for the Sig red dot? Is there any other difference between the RX and normal Sig? Sorry for the dumb question.

Also, I will be ordering 2 tomorrow and probably also a jig.
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Old 04-04-2018, 3:25 PM
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So the "RX" models have the cutout on the slide for the Sig red dot? Is there any other difference between the RX and normal Sig? Sorry for the dumb question.

Also, I will be ordering 2 tomorrow and probably also a jig.
The RX comes with the red dot and supressor height sights installed and ready to go just like the picture above.

The regular full size has standard sights and is not cut for a red dot. The X5 is a competition ready full size version that has fiber optic fronts and adjustable rear sights, but has the slide cut to add a red dot in the future.
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Old 04-04-2018, 3:27 PM
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The RX comes with the red dot and supressor height sights installed and ready to go just like the picture above.

The regular full size has standard sights and is not cut for a red dot. The X5 is a competition ready full size version that has fiber optic fronts and adjustable rear sights, but has the slide cut to add a red dot in the future.
Awesome thank you!
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