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Competition, Action Shooting And Training. Competition, Three gun, IPSC, IDPA , and Training discussion here.

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  #1  
Old 10-09-2016, 4:35 PM
ap3572001 ap3572001 is offline
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Default Accurizing a Glock 17

If You got a brand new GEN4 G17 and wanted to maximize its mechanical accuracy, where would You start?

I am talking making it able to shoot the smallest possible groups at 25 yards + with PREMIUM FACTORY ammo from a rest.

This is my next project and first one with a Glock.
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  #2  
Old 10-09-2016, 5:52 PM
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I would start by seeing how accurate it is now before doing anything else.

If you wanted to go nuts then get Bar Sto to match fit a barrel, $440.
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  #3  
Old 10-09-2016, 6:52 PM
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Send it to Taran Tactical Innovations. www.tarantacticalinnovations.com . You will get the most accurate and reliable Glock possible.
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  #4  
Old 10-09-2016, 8:39 PM
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I'd be interested in hearing how your project goes as I've been looking into this for Gen3 and Gen4's for awhile. Hoping you will benchmark accuracy with several different factory loads before you start, or even better, work up a hand load.
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Old 10-09-2016, 11:03 PM
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ive tried bar sto, lone wolf, Efk, Kkm and factory barrels, barsto is great, Kkm is also good and I've had a lot of good luck with them, perhaps drop a new connector and spring kit into it, I've also has good luck with zevs "competition" package, and it's like $30.
IMO it's not worth sending out to companies for $550+for a stipple job, some polishing/connector and spring work, and some laser engraving. That doesn't exactly make it more accurate, or reliable. It's not like these things are known for their out of box unreliability
It's a glock...
As far as accuracy, they're not bad out of the box..
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  #6  
Old 10-10-2016, 12:42 AM
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Aren't you asking a lot? Glocks are mainly self defense type designed pistols. Not really made for precision shooting. Maybe get a good set of aftermarket sights and a ***** load of ammo to start before spending your coin.
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Old 10-10-2016, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iMigraine View Post
Aren't you asking a lot? Glocks are mainly self defense type designed pistols. Not really made for precision shooting. Maybe get a good set of aftermarket sights and a ***** load of ammo to start before spending your coin.
I think I get where he's coming from. On a good day, with plenty of light, I can keep 10 rounds standing/freestyle in the black of a B-8 target (5.54") at 25-yards with a stock-barrel G17 Gen3. I'm told that a good Gen4 sample is capable of a smaller group, maybe 50% smaller, so I'd like a smaller group.

There are three reasons I want a smaller group and am willing to spend to get one as long as reliability does not measurably fall off: (1) Active shooter scenarios are becoming more common and a distance shot is more of a possibility. If I'm at one end of a movie theatre when rounds start flying, I don't want my only option to be "close the distance". I expect and train to be able to shoot to the limits of my gun (2) The crowd I train with shoot "standards" to train against and to measure progress. Most of those standards include accuracy at distance. I'm competitive, my friends are competitive, so....within the paradigm of "combat reliable" I also want as accurate a pistol as possible, and finally (3) I'm obsessive and shooting smaller groups with a Glock feeds that.
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  #8  
Old 10-10-2016, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumpfenhammer View Post
....

There are three reasons I want a smaller group and am willing to spend to get one as long as reliability does not measurably fall off: (1) Active shooter scenarios are becoming more common and a distance shot is more of a possibility. If I'm at one end of a movie theatre when rounds start flying, I don't want my only option to be "close the distance". I expect and train to be able to shoot to the limits of my gun (2) The crowd I train with shoot "standards" to train against and to measure progress. Most of those standards include accuracy at distance. I'm competitive, my friends are competitive, so....within the paradigm of "combat reliable" I also want as accurate a pistol as possible, and finally (3) I'm obsessive and shooting smaller groups with a Glock feeds that.
#2 & #3 are fine and make good/useful range time with friends.

If #1 is actually a reason, you should be training with a Glock 26 or your preferred carry gun and should only consider mods that are 110% reliable. A large % of mods decrease reliability. Realistically, very few people would CCW a highly modified/accurized G17 in a movie theater.

Perfectly fine to do everything you're doing. Just gotta be a little realistic about your active shooter scenarios.
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  #9  
Old 10-10-2016, 1:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElDub1950 View Post
#2 & #3 are fine and make good/useful range time with friends.

If #1 is actually a reason, you should be training with a Glock 26 or your preferred carry gun and should only consider mods that are 110% reliable. A large % of mods decrease reliability. Realistically, very few people would CCW a highly modified/accurized G17 in a movie theater.

Perfectly fine to do everything you're doing. Just gotta be a little realistic about your active shooter scenarios.
I've been rotating carry of a G26, G19 and M&P 340 for years. The G26 just got replaced with a Shield and I'm thinking about retiring the J-frame and adding a G17. Among other things, I've attended two 40-hour scenario-based LE Active Shooter Response schools, so I think I've got a somewhat realistic understanding of the concept.

"I expect and train to be able to shoot to the limits of my gun."
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  #10  
Old 10-10-2016, 3:14 PM
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Your stock g17 will hit a man size target at 120 yards with bulk ammo.

The gun isn't going to be the reason you missed.

If anything, throw in a - connector, polish job, and better sights (some will say FO/black rear, I vote for tritium, either work better than stock).

Save your money for other gear, training or ammo.
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  #11  
Old 10-11-2016, 11:39 AM
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In my experience, my Gen 4 Glocks didn't get as big of an accuracy improvement as my Gen 3's did with KKM drop ins. But there is a noticeable improvement shooting off hand but its slight.

Although I understand the logic behind your reasoning, I'd caution you on modifying your gun to chase a few inches at 25y at the expense of reliability as everything is a trade off.

Personally I'd participate in some IDPA or USPSA matches and when you can shoot 3" groups on all targets in all stages, you can start worrying about increasing the mechanical accuracy.
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Old 10-11-2016, 1:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
In my experience, my Gen 4 Glocks didn't get as big of an accuracy improvement as my Gen 3's did with KKM drop ins. But there is a noticeable improvement shooting off hand but its slight.
I just bought a Gen4 G17 so later this month I'll give it the side-by-side 25-yard test. I hope you are wrong, otherwise I'll be kicking myself for not just getting a KKM for my Gen3 I'm going to try the KKM on a G19 though.
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  #13  
Old 10-11-2016, 2:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumpfenhammer View Post
I just bought a Gen4 G17 so later this month I'll give it the side-by-side 25-yard test. I hope you are wrong, otherwise I'll be kicking myself for not just getting a KKM for my Gen3 I'm going to try the KKM on a G19 though.


I should have also added, to make it more clear, every Gen 4 I've shot has been more accurate than the equivalent Gen 3.
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  #14  
Old 10-11-2016, 7:30 PM
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Trigger job and learn to shoot it to its mechanical capability.

Trigger jobs come in all shapes and sizes. If you want to go for pure accuracy then go as light as possible while maintaining reliability. For a Glock, I believe this is 3-3.5 lbs.

I'm not sure I follow-up your logic behind tight group accuracy bench rest with a Glock 17. Doesn't make sense to me but to each his own.
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  #15  
Old 10-11-2016, 7:38 PM
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Dry practice. Devote more time and less money.
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Old 10-11-2016, 8:50 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFwi...1u0Buw&index=5

Look at about 27:10. Taran talks about the factory barrel accuracy. I shoot USPSA and GSSF just use the factory barrel. I run moly coated bullets too.

Last edited by oddjob; 10-11-2016 at 8:55 PM..
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  #17  
Old 10-12-2016, 8:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oddjob View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFwi...1u0Buw&index=5

Look at about 27:10. Taran talks about the factory barrel accuracy. I shoot USPSA and GSSF just use the factory barrel. I run moly coated bullets too.
Good info, thank you. I think he is referring to a Gen4 Glock though, when he discusses how they shoot as well as his "old" Glock that has a Barstow barrel.

So if you have a Gen3 -- a KKM, Barstow or Wilson seem like the path to smaller groups.

I have a G17 Gen3 and I'm waiting for a G17 Gen4 to come out of jail, so I'll compare them side-by-side to see if that's how it is.
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Old 10-16-2016, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap3572001 View Post
If You got a brand new GEN4 G17 and wanted to maximize its mechanical accuracy, where would You start?

I am talking making it able to shoot the smallest possible groups at 25 yards + with PREMIUM FACTORY ammo from a rest.

This is my next project and first one with a Glock.
It's the Indian not the bow
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Old 10-17-2016, 12:34 AM
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It's the Indian not the bow
That didn't work out so well for the Indians.
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Old 10-19-2016, 7:26 AM
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That didn't work out so well for the Indians.


There weren't enough Indians, but they could sure shoot an arrow
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Old 10-19-2016, 1:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packy14 View Post
It's the Indian not the bow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumpfenhammer View Post
That didn't work out so well for the Indians.
Or the French at the Battle of Agincourt.
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  #22  
Old 10-20-2016, 4:35 PM
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Sights. Barsto gunsmith fit barrel.
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Old 10-20-2016, 6:34 PM
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I have a gen4 Glock17. I am not a competition shooter, just a range guy who is developing his skills. I have been fortunate to try multiple customs, but the two changes that increased my accuracy, other than ammo and practice, is a better trigger (went with a Kinet-tec) and a longer sight radius (G34). Other accuracy improvements, based on other Glocks, did not seem to help me, because the user (me) could not maximize the benefits.Everything else for me was for functional reliability or operational ease.
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Old 07-06-2018, 11:48 AM
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I have shot many aftermarket barrels.
Consistently, the BarSTo barrels have shot the best for pistols - jacketed and lead.

Specifically the G17/and G19 - the groups were 1/2 the size of factory and other aftermarket.

So from a purely mechanical sense, somehow Irv Stone, III has figured out how to reproduce his family's legendary performance.

Detroit
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Old 07-06-2018, 1:07 PM
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or you could buy a 1911....
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Old 07-06-2018, 1:42 PM
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Put a RMR on it OP.

I recommend ATEi.

https://ateiguns.com
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Old 07-06-2018, 1:51 PM
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If the glock is in spec it will shoot very very accurate. I have glocks that are as accurate as my cz's. Put good sights on it and get a trigger you can adjust the overtravel out if it. All thats really needed.
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Old 07-06-2018, 9:16 PM
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Old thread but IMO it's not practical to try to "accurize"a Glock because there's no way to lock in the barrel as you can w/a 1911.

I own 6 Glocks and one vintage custom 1911 previously owned and used by a IPSC champion shooter. I can shoot the G17, G20 and 1911 all in the black at 25 yds using factory ammo but my 1911 can shoot sub 1" groups in a Ransom rest or benche on a sandbag at that range. The best I can usually do w/it is a 2" group shooting two handed at 25 yds but I use to belong to a club where guys could shoot 1" groups w/their custom 45s SINGLE HANDED bullseye style and just shoot at air after they shot out the center of the target.

So, ultimately, the accuracy of a gun IMO is far more dependent on the skill of the shooter than the mechanical precision of the gun itself.
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  #29  
Old 07-09-2018, 3:14 PM
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I think you guys are conflating two things.

Gun accuracy and shooter accuracy.

Both can have an equal effect on overall accuracy but increasing shooter accuracy is easier than increasing gun/ammo accuracy. And most guns are way more accurate than their shooters.

But there comes a point in this scale that a shooters accuracy can surpass that of their gun, especially when talking about a mass produced gun like a Glock. Most casual and even serious shooters never get to this point.

Cliffs - Dry fire (especially if you own a Glock).
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Old 07-29-2018, 5:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyxcom View Post
I think you guys are conflating two things.

Gun accuracy and shooter accuracy.

Cliffs - Dry fire (especially if you own a Glock).
Yup. BTW: The Gen 4 G17 I bought shot about 20% tighter groups at 25 yards that my Gen 3. Dropped a KKM in the Gen 3 and now the same or a hair more accurate than the Gen 4. That said, I have a buddy in the gun biz who is also a USPSA Grand Master. He say's Gen 3 and Gen 4 are equally accurate, it just depends on the individual gun (manufacturing variances). Having seen some off-center OEM Glock barrels, and knowing that my little test is statistically insignificant -- I no longer care. My buddy recommends Barstow if you want to mess with it.

Dry fire, dry fire, dry fire.
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Old 07-29-2018, 5:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumpfenhammer View Post
... (1) Active shooter scenarios are becoming more common and a distance shot is more of a possibility. If I'm at one end of a movie theatre when rounds start flying, I don't want my only option to be "close the distance"....
Well, if you are at the other end of the theater I think your other option is to bail while keeping others between you and the shooter.
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Old 08-02-2018, 3:45 PM
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Well, if you are at the other end of the theater I think your other option is to bail while keeping others between you and the shooter.
Of course Tanks, that's the real plan, but it doesn't sound nearly as good online
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Old 09-03-2018, 6:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElDub1950 View Post
#2 & #3 are fine and make good/useful range time with friends.

If #1 is actually a reason, you should be training with a Glock 26 or your preferred carry gun and should only consider mods that are 110% reliable. A large % of mods decrease reliability. Realistically, very few people would CCW a highly modified/accurized G17 in a movie theater.

Perfectly fine to do everything you're doing. Just gotta be a little realistic about your active shooter scenarios.
I carry a G17 or a G19 about 50% of the time now, with a SureFire XC1 attached. I'm full-size so a full size pistol works when I'm not wearing a t-shirt. The Wilson barrels in my 19 and 17 have had no effect on reliability over a few thousand rounds.
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  #34  
Old 09-03-2018, 6:29 PM
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Thread died 2 years ago, was brought back shortly before dying 2 months ago and then after being dead 1 month, its brought back again. This is basically a zombie thread without talk about zombies... weird.

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Old 12-07-2018, 12:09 PM
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Curious what SFO Op's did. He asks for a lot of input but we hardly ever hear what he ends up doing ...

DD
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:13 PM
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Barsto match target..


It works incredibly well...groups shrank immensely but poi shifted at 10 yards but at 50 yards its poi poa the same.

This was 10 shots at 50 yards on my g17 gen 3..with barsto match target fitted.



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Old 12-08-2018, 9:37 AM
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That didn't work out so well for the Indians.
Because the bow & arrow isn't very effective against the diseses carried by the Europeans.
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Old 12-10-2018, 3:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap3572001 View Post
If You got a brand new GEN4 G17 and wanted to maximize its mechanical accuracy, where would You start?

I am talking making it able to shoot the smallest possible groups at 25 yards + with PREMIUM FACTORY ammo from a rest.

This is my next project and first one with a Glock.
get a 1911 sorry just had too
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  #39  
Old 12-10-2018, 4:21 PM
barca101 barca101 is offline
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The person I would contact is Johnny Glock, he is a guru in the glock world. He has YouTube videos explaining how the glock operates and where the fixes are to get more performance from your glock. Whats good about it is he does his work with OEM parts. I’ve shot a few and they shorted the pretravel and reset. Like I said, watch his videos.
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