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  #1  
Old 05-06-2017, 11:21 AM
3S16 3S16 is online now
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Default Pensioned LEOs and Social Security

I've ranted here in the past about losing two thirds of my Social Security benefits due a clause called "Government Pension Offset and Windfall Elimination" provision. In a nutshell, If you have a pension from a Govt. entity , but you also have put in your 40 quarters paying into Social Security from other jobs, you lose around 2/3 of the SSI you are entitled to when you reach 62/65. (mine went from $900 to $310), because, as the lady behind the bullet proof glass at the social security office told me, "There are other people who need it more!" This was just before the security guard escorted me out.
Now there is a glimmer of hope on the horizon. This past February, Rep. Rodney Davis (Ill.) introduced H.R. 1205, "Social Security Fairness act of 2017", a bill to do away with the above. It is co-sponsored by 120 others in the house, including 34 from Calif. The vast majority of these co-sponsors are Democrats, but there is bi-partisan support. The bill was sent to the sub committee on Social Security in March.
I'm encouraged by the fact that it was introduced so early in the year.
So, If you envision yourself in a similar situation, call or write your Congress person.
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  #2  
Old 05-06-2017, 3:44 PM
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Why can I not get what I put in for and what I am entitled? That is absurd...

I received the statement that said I will get maybe $365 per month when I reach 67.
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  #3  
Old 05-06-2017, 3:46 PM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is offline
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My uncle retired from Inglewood pd after 25 years and has an army pension and they take most of his social security
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Old 05-06-2017, 3:53 PM
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I've heard this from friends that work for the govt. Complete b.s.! The govt collects your money, holds on to it for 40-50 years and gives a fraction of what you've paid in return.

Complete scam.
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  #5  
Old 05-06-2017, 4:01 PM
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Not Leo here but understand the frustration, I paid in nearly 20 years into SS and now that I'm in a gov position they tell me I'll only get around 40% unless I work at least 30 years paying SS which then makes you exempt from the Windfall elimination plan. Especially with PEPRA a lot of gov workers are going to have to work until 67 to get enough to live on.

Yes I understand that 3% at 50 is highly unsustainable but not every gov worker is on that. My work is 1.6 at 62 now for new hires.
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  #6  
Old 05-06-2017, 5:03 PM
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This is encouraging news. The windfall elimination plan applies to me and I always thought it was unfair. I paid into social security for many years and now I don't get to have that money back? Why? Because I motivated myself to get a better job? I'm not getting a federal pension anyway. So why are the feds so worried about my state pension? It's not fair for federal pension employees either; but, at least I might be able to understand the feds' position about federal pension employees getting the [federal] social security benefits. Dumb. It's not like I had to ability to opt-out of social security back then. If I could have, I would have invested that money for my retirement and kept it all for myself!
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  #7  
Old 05-06-2017, 5:10 PM
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Originally Posted by NATEWA View Post
I've heard this from friends that work for the govt. Complete b.s.! The govt collects your money, holds on to it for 40-50 years and gives a fraction of what you've paid in return.

Complete scam.
That's because Leftist Politicos need YOUR money to buy votes with from people who never contributed to start with.
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  #8  
Old 05-06-2017, 5:20 PM
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I'll be contacting my reps to hopefully get this passed. I took my SS last July when I turned 66 just so I'd get a couple years at max before I retire on my city pension and they screw me. I haven't paid in for 35 years but what's mine is mine. I don't consider it an entitlement or that "others" need it more than I do/will.
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Old 05-06-2017, 8:24 PM
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I'm in the same boat. I get about $400, instead of the $1000 or so if I had retired from another line of work.
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Old 05-06-2017, 9:05 PM
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A bill needs to be introduced to cease paying S/S to those who didn't pay into it.

Frankly, it (SSI) is just another form of welfare for illegal immigrants and slackers. Those that have been paying into are being left out in the cold.



BTW, I've been paying into the S/S system since I was 13...close to 40 years. And I honestly don't expect S/S to be around when I finally retire. And no, I don't have a 401k or govt pension to fall back on. Just the house I live in (which will eventually be sold, when I move to a free state...hopefully for a lot of money).
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  #11  
Old 05-06-2017, 9:53 PM
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This is indeed great news. I've reached my 40 quarters or whatever the "40" is called, several years ago with a side business I used to have. I was made aware long ago that the government steals around 3/4ths of SS benefits when I retire. I paid into it, why don't I get my entitled return on it???
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  #12  
Old 05-07-2017, 7:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3S16 View Post
I've ranted here in the past about losing two thirds of my Social Security benefits due a clause called "Government Pension Offset and Windfall Elimination" provision. In a nutshell, If you have a pension from a Govt. entity , but you also have put in your 40 quarters paying into Social Security from other jobs, you lose around 2/3 of the SSI you are entitled to when you reach 62/65. (mine went from $900 to $310), because, as the lady behind the bullet proof glass at the social security office told me, "There are other people who need it more!" This was just before the security guard escorted me out.
Now there is a glimmer of hope on the horizon. This past February, Rep. Rodney Davis (Ill.) introduced H.R. 1205, "Social Security Fairness act of 2017", a bill to do away with the above. It is co-sponsored by 120 others in the house, including 34 from Calif. The vast majority of these co-sponsors are Democrats, but there is bi-partisan support. The bill was sent to the sub committee on Social Security in March.
I'm encouraged by the fact that it was introduced so early in the year.
So, If you envision yourself in a similar situation, call or write your Congress person.
I have a Gov annuity. SS sent letter before turning 62 saying my monthly would be $1,800. When I took SS at 65 they reduced it to $310. I was furious and talked to many people but of course I lost the battle. I wonder if anything comes of this bill.

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  #13  
Old 05-07-2017, 9:01 AM
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Interestingly, that was the trade-off you all made when you agreed to be Exempt from Social Security in exchange for that great Government pension. Now you want to have your cake and eat it too. Don't get me wrong I do understand but Social Security was never intended to support people who already have a great Government Pension.

Now consider this. Those of us who did not/don't work for the Government have to pay Social Security Tax on every dime of wages we make every day of our lives.

Why should you be entitled to the same Social Security benefit I am when you were able to exclude most of your income from Social Security Tax.

I will agree to give you the same social security benefit as me when you agree I get the same pension as you.
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Americans vs. Democrats
We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross


We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls.


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  #14  
Old 05-07-2017, 9:22 AM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Interestingly, that was the trade-off you all made when you agreed to be Exempt from Social Security in exchange for that great Government pension. Now you want to have your cake and eat it too. Don't get me wrong I do understand but Social Security was never intended to support people who already have a great Government Pension.

Now consider this. Those of us who did not/don't work for the Government have to pay Social Security Tax on every dime of wages we make every day of our lives.

Why should you be entitled to the same Social Security benefit I am when you were able to exclude most of your income from Social Security Tax.

I will agree to give you the same social security benefit as me when you agree I get the same pension as you.
You have completely missed the point. It's not about getting the same as you but getting back what was put in? I don't want the same as people who paid in for their entire working career, but I should be allowed to get the benefit's of what I paid in.

Many of us paid into social security just like you did, and some of us are still paying in, but because we have a separate government pension system we should not be allowed to get the full benefit we paid into?

It's about fairness since private sector pension holder's still qualify for full social security benefit's why shouldn't government pensions? If someone paid into the system shouldn't they be allowed the benefit's for the time they paid in? I guess if social security was reduced for IRA or 401k holder's it would be a different matter entirely.
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Old 05-07-2017, 9:29 AM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Interestingly, that was the trade-off you all made when you agreed to be Exempt from Social Security in exchange for that great Government pension..
Not true the law that takes away from what should be paid was enacted years after I left SS. Also our SS payments are based on having at least 40 quarters and what we paid in so it's not a give away program. Like 90% of all those who paid in I'll never get all my money back (orig payments and interest it's earned). Also my .gov retirement pays better because its deduction is a lot higher than what my SS deduction was.

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  #16  
Old 05-07-2017, 9:33 AM
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You have completely missed the point. It's not about getting the same as you but getting back what was put in? I don't want the same as people who paid in for their entire working career, but I should be allowed to get the benefit's of what I paid in.

Many of us paid into social security just like you did, and some of us are still paying in, but because we have a separate government pension system we should not be allowed to get the full benefit we paid into?

It's about fairness since private sector pension holder's still qualify for full social security benefit's why shouldn't government pensions? If someone paid into the system shouldn't they be allowed the benefit's for the time they paid in? I guess if social security was reduced for IRA or 401k holder's it would be a different matter entirely.
No I didn't. I pay way more in then you ever did. I still pay in even though I can now collect and no matter how much more I pay in I will never get a dime of that back. Meanwhile your union exempted 80%+ of your income from SS tax by being a Govt Employee.

Your Union made a deal, Give us a really great pension and we will exempt out of Social Security. Can't have it both ways. That's why they call it DOUBLE DIPPING.

You think because you payed in 40 quarters you should get back the same amount as someone who payed in 200 quarters.

And more important it is called Social Security Insurance for a reason. It is not a pension it is an insurance policy. Most of the money I payed in goes to support some millennial who fried his brains on Norco and Extacy.
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Originally Posted by epilepticninja View Post
Americans vs. Democrats
We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross


We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls.


What doesn't kill me, better run
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  #17  
Old 05-07-2017, 9:37 AM
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Not true the law that takes away from what should be paid was enacted years after I left SS. Also our SS payments are based on having at least 40 quarters and what we paid in so it's not a give away program. Like 90% of all those who paid in I'll never get all my money back (orig payments and interest it's earned).
False, when you went to work for the Government you elected out of Social Security. You are receiving EXACTLY what someone who paid in 40 quarters and has a Government Pension is supposed to receive. You just think you are entitled to what the guy without the pension gets.

Social Security is not intended to give back what we put in, it is intended as a safety net for other less fortunate people.

Are you paying for someone else??? HELL YES,

just like my tax dollars funded your pension. But I don't get back one cent they took out of my pay to fund YOUR pension.
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Originally Posted by epilepticninja View Post
Americans vs. Democrats
We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross


We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls.


What doesn't kill me, better run
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  #18  
Old 05-07-2017, 9:43 AM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Interestingly, that was the trade-off you all made when you agreed to be Exempt from Social Security in exchange for that great Government pension. Now you want to have your cake and eat it too. Don't get me wrong I do understand but Social Security was never intended to support people who already have a great Government Pension.

Now consider this. Those of us who did not/don't work for the Government have to pay Social Security Tax on every dime of wages we make every day of our lives.

Why should you be entitled to the same Social Security benefit I am when you were able to exclude most of your income from Social Security Tax.

I will agree to give you the same social security benefit as me when you agree I get the same pension as you.
I would normally agree with you but many, if not most government employees have second jobs to make ends meet. I rarely or never hear government employees complaining that they have to have a second job (In which they do pay into SS) because they chose to serve their community or country instead of making those $ix figured $aleries like many in the private sector. It is only FAIR that if they paid into the system (While working that 2nd job) they get back their rightful share. NOT your share or anyone elses, Just their fair share.
MAGA.

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  #19  
Old 05-07-2017, 9:47 AM
rcslotcar rcslotcar is offline
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I would hate to work a job and have 70% of my earned pay not given to me. Or maybe have a savings account that I could only draw out 30% of what I saved.
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Old 05-07-2017, 9:51 AM
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An people bit*h about Government employees having it sooooo good, this is BS, if you pay into it (the law), you should very well be able to tap it later IMHO.
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  #21  
Old 05-07-2017, 9:52 AM
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I would normally agree with you but many, if not most government employees have second jobs to make ends meet. I rarely or never hear government employees complaining that they have to have a second job (In which they do pay into SS) because they chose to serve their community or country instead of making those $ix figured $aleries like many in the private sector. It is only FAIR that if they paid into the system (While working that 2nd job) they get back their rightful share. NOT your share or anyone elses, Just their fair share.
MAGA.

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I pay tons of taxes to fund government programs like your job. When do I get my right full share?

As a small business man I pay taxes into tons of government programs. Disability taxes, unemployment taxes, etc, etc. I have no choice about this. I personally have never collected Unemployment or disability. Should I get back what I paid in?? I guarantee it was more then you paid into Social Security.

Why should you get money back from a Government programs just because you paid into them if I don't. Where is my right full share

Are you special?

By the way those "6 figure $aleries in the private sector" are mostly a lie government employees use to justify their Union Benefits.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epilepticninja View Post
Americans vs. Democrats
We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross


We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls.


What doesn't kill me, better run
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  #22  
Old 05-07-2017, 9:53 AM
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An people bit*h about Government employees having it sooooo good, this is BS, if you pay into it (the law), you should very well be able to tap it later IMHO.
Your right, I paid taxes which funded your pension. I'll stop by your house and tap in this afternoon.

See it all sounds different when it's me who paid in and now want to take your money.


Do you have any idea how many Government programs I am required to by law to pay into as a small business owner that I never see a dime of????????


I'm glad you feel so much more special them me. The Government should be fair to you when they aren't to me??

I've had the governments hand up my ***** and in my wallet for 50 years. But you cry because you have to pay a little and don't get it back.


I paid to fix the potholes 5 times already but California used that money to fund PERS.
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Originally Posted by epilepticninja View Post
Americans vs. Democrats
We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross


We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls.


What doesn't kill me, better run

Last edited by 71MUSTY; 05-07-2017 at 10:00 AM..
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Old 05-07-2017, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
I pay tons of taxes to fund government programs like your job. When do I get my right full share?

As a small business man I pay taxes into tons of government programs. Disability taxes, unemployment taxes, etc, etc. I have no choice about this. I personally have never collected Unemployment or disability. Should I get back what I paid in?? I guarantee it was more then you paid into Social Security.

Why should you get money back from a Government programs just because you paid into them if I don't. Where is my right full share

Are you special?

By the way those "6 figure $aleries in the private sector" are mostly a lie government employees use to justify their Union Benefits.
I obviously hurt your feelings Musty and never made it personal. This thread was talking about retirement. If you want to talk about taxes that's something different. I also pay taxes so I guess I'm paying my own salary. Some of your taxes go to pay for services like Fire, Police, Road Repair, etc.

If your are a businessman, I'm sure you already know this but maybe forgot. If you're not cooking the books (Only you would kow) and paying into SS then you too should get your share.

At the end of the day, I believe what people are saying is "If you contributed, then you should receive something back" unlike those that contributed nothing. BTW....Let it go, Hillary lost and quit your crying.


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Old 05-07-2017, 10:18 AM
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I obviously hurt your feelings Musty and never made it personal. This thread was talking about retirement. If you want to talk about taxes that's something different. I also pay taxes so I guess I'm paying my own salary. Some of your taxes go to pay for services like Fire, Police, Road Repair, etc.

If your are a businessman, I'm sure you already know this but maybe forgot. If you're not cooking the books (Only you would kow) and paying into SS then you too should get your share.

At the end of the day, I believe what people are saying is "If you contributed, then you should receive something back" unlike those that contributed nothing. BTW....Let it go, Hillary lost and quit your crying.


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No you didn't hurt my feelings. Point is YOU are not entitled to more Social Security. You just think you are. We all pay taxes. We all pay for government programs we don't receive benefit from.

Interesting you accuse me of "Cooking my books" and supporting "Hillary" when you are the one complaining because you don't qualify for a Social Program. You know your wrong so out comes the name calling.


I am not talking about other things I am talking about retirement.


Point is you have a Government Pension (that's a good thing). One cost of having a Government Pension is you get reduced SS benefits. It's a trade off you willingly made.

Now you are crying about how unfair it is. I'm just telling you to stop acting all entitled and live with the deal you made.
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Originally Posted by epilepticninja View Post
Americans vs. Democrats
We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross


We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls.


What doesn't kill me, better run

Last edited by 71MUSTY; 05-07-2017 at 10:23 AM..
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Old 05-07-2017, 10:20 AM
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exactly ^
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Old 05-07-2017, 10:38 AM
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I have to agree. It is the deal we made. I am happy with the results. The amount that I would pay into SS would be substantial. Instead I contribute heavily into a 401 and 457. I have a good pension through my job which is held by Calpers but I don't put total faith in anything.

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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
Interestingly, that was the trade-off you all made when you agreed to be Exempt from Social Security in exchange for that great Government pension. Now you want to have your cake and eat it too. Don't get me wrong I do understand but Social Security was never intended to support people who already have a great Government Pension.

Now consider this. Those of us who did not/don't work for the Government have to pay Social Security Tax on every dime of wages we make every day of our lives.

Why should you be entitled to the same Social Security benefit I am when you were able to exclude most of your income from Social Security Tax.

I will agree to give you the same social security benefit as me when you agree I get the same pension as you.
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Old 05-07-2017, 10:56 AM
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Lol, you assume a lot of this that weren't said. The reality is you don't pay for my job. You may want one of my contracts, but you certainly do not pay for my job. You Assume you pay more taxes than others in this thread, I doubt that. You Assume I'm a government employee, you Assume, I belong to PERS (Thank God that I do not) and No one here ever said they are entitled to more than their share. No body accused you of cooking your books (But only you would know). You also Assume all government employees get their pensions paid for....Wrong.

Truth be told I too own a small business, I'm not in the "Union" nor did I make any deals with the government (At least not regarding my pension). I have my own 401k because I can only depend on me for taking care of myself. SS should be distributed equitably based on what someone puts into it. Let it be up to every American to decide if they would like to contribute more or take less than their share to support those that elected not to get educated or find a second, third, or fourth job like so many others.

If I'm wrong for wanting it to be fair for everyone, then so be it. And yes I do have friends that work for the government and they too deserve it if that paid into their own pension and also paid into SS.

What name were you called? A Hillary supporter??? Is that a bad thing? (Only you would know).

Have a wonderful Sunday! MAGA





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  #28  
Old 05-07-2017, 10:57 AM
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How about Social Security just cashes me out what I put into it?
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Old 05-07-2017, 12:22 PM
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Lol, you assume a lot of this that weren't said. The reality is you don't pay for my job. You may want one of my contracts, but you certainly do not pay for my job. You Assume you pay more taxes than others in this thread, I doubt that. You Assume I'm a government employee, you Assume, I belong to PERS (Thank God that I do not) and No one here ever said they are entitled to more than their share. No body accused you of cooking your books (But only you would know). You also Assume all government employees get their pensions paid for....Wrong.

Truth be told I too own a small business, I'm not in the "Union" nor did I make any deals with the government (At least not regarding my pension). I have my own 401k because I can only depend on me for taking care of myself. SS should be distributed equitably based on what someone puts into it. Let it be up to every American to decide if they would like to contribute more or take less than their share to support those that elected not to get educated or find a second, third, or fourth job like so many others.

If I'm wrong for wanting it to be fair for everyone, then so be it. And yes I do have friends that work for the government and they too deserve it if that paid into their own pension and also paid into SS.

What name were you called? A Hillary supporter??? Is that a bad thing? (Only you would know).

Have a wonderful Sunday! MAGA





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Nice try.

If your were not a government employee why are you complaining that SS is reducing your benefit because of your government pension???

I assumed nothing.

You believe your Government wages did not come from tax dollars? Pray tell where you think they came from?

I never said you were part of PERS. You assume I said that.
I don't assume I paid more taxes then you, I know I do because I paid 15% SE tax on every dime I made, you were exempt on your government job. That is fact not assumption.
You assumed I said all Government employees get their pensions paid for. I never said that either.

If you do not have a government pension then your Social Security is not limited by your government pension.


If You agreed to take a government job, and get covered by a lucrative Defined Benefit pension. As part of that deal you agreed to exempt out of Social Security and have the money that would have gone to Social Security go into your lucrative Defined Benefit Pension.

Something no one else gets to do.

In exchange you agreed not to get full Social Security.

All facts. No assumptions.

Now you want the best of both worlds.

You do understand that Only Government employees get to exempt out of social security and put the money they would have paid into social security into a nice defined benefit plan pension?

That is a huge benefit.

That right there is where the unfairness started. That right there is why they don't get to double dip.

So lets be fair.
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Originally Posted by epilepticninja View Post
Americans vs. Democrats
We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross


We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls.


What doesn't kill me, better run
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  #30  
Old 05-07-2017, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank1911 View Post
Lol, you assume a lot of this that weren't said. The reality is you don't pay for my job. You may want one of my contracts, but you certainly do not pay for my job. You Assume you pay more taxes than others in this thread, I doubt that. You Assume I'm a government employee, you Assume, I belong to PERS (Thank God that I do not) and No one here ever said they are entitled to more than their share. No body accused you of cooking your books (But only you would know). You also Assume all government employees get their pensions paid for....Wrong.

Truth be told I too own a small business, I'm not in the "Union" nor did I make any deals with the government (At least not regarding my pension). I have my own 401k because I can only depend on me for taking care of myself. SS should be distributed equitably based on what someone puts into it. Let it be up to every American to decide if they would like to contribute more or take less than their share to support those that elected not to get educated or find a second, third, or fourth job like so many others.

If I'm wrong for wanting it to be fair for everyone, then so be it. And yes I do have friends that work for the government and they too deserve it if that paid into their own pension and also paid into SS.

What name were you called? A Hillary supporter??? Is that a bad thing? (Only you would know).

Have a wonderful Sunday! MAGA





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Nice try.

I assumed nothing.

You believe your Government wages did not come from tax dollars? Pray tell where you think they came from? If you did receive Government wages how did you get a Government pension?

I never said you were part of PERS. You assume I said that.
I don't assume I paid more taxes then you, I know I do because I paid 15% SE tax on every dime I made, you were exempt on your government job. That is fact not assumption.
You assumed I said all Government employees get their pensions paid for. I never said that either.

If you do not have a government pension then your Social Security is not limited by your government pension.


If You agreed to take a government job, and get covered by a lucrative Defined Benefit pension. As part of that deal you agreed to exempt out of Social Security and have the money that would have gone to Social Security go into your lucrative Defined Benefit Pension.

Something no one else gets to do.

In exchange you agreed not to get full Social Security.

All facts. No assumptions.

Now you want the best of both worlds.

You do understand that Only Government employees get to exempt out of social security and put the money they would have paid into social security into a nice defined benefit plan pension?

That is a huge benefit.

That right there is where the unfairness started. That right there is why they don't get to double dip.

So lets be fair.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epilepticninja View Post
Americans vs. Democrats
We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross


We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls.


What doesn't kill me, better run
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  #31  
Old 05-07-2017, 12:55 PM
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Now I think you have Alzheimer's. You my want to read what you wrote . You also *** ume everything. I never complained about what any reduced payment? I'm not retired nor am I currently eligible for any retirement. I already shared with you I'm a business owner and if you only paid 15% you either have a great CPA or business isn't going that we'll for you.

I still have a few more years till retirement (if I decide to sell or hand down my business) but nevertheless I'm not collecting a dime of my SS that I surely will apply for (Because I can). BTW, just about everything comes from our tax dollars.

Just because you're a government employee does not mean you are exempt from paying into SS, and taxes that would be an ignorant statement ( And it was).

I can not speak on any "Lucrative defined pension" but what I do know out of many of my friends that were/are government employees, none of them live high on the hog. They live moderately as most Americans do.

I believe the men & women who agreed to serve their community, from our military to our Waste collection should be treated fairly.

You *** ume too much and most of your rant is without facts. I'm beginning to think you look forward to my response just so you can see the tag line.....

Make America Great Again! "MAGA."

Please respond back with anything if you believe in Making America Great Again. (-;





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  #32  
Old 05-07-2017, 1:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank1911 View Post
Now I think you have Alzheimer's. You my want to read what you wrote . You also *** ume everything. I never complained about what any reduced payment? I'm not retired nor am I currently eligible for any retirement. I already shared with you I'm a business owner and if you only paid 15% you either have a great CPA or business isn't going that we'll for you.

I still have a few more years till retirement (if I decide to sell or hand down my business) but nevertheless I'm not collecting a dime of my SS that I surely will apply for (Because I can). BTW, just about everything comes from our tax dollars.

Just because you're a government employee does not mean you are exempt from paying into SS, and taxes that would be an ignorant statement ( And it was).

I can not speak on any "Lucrative defined pension" but what I do know out of many of my friends that were/are government employees, none of them live high on the hog. They live moderately as most Americans do.

I believe the men & women who agreed to serve their community, from our military to our Waste collection should be treated fairly.

You *** ume too much and most of your rant is without facts. I'm beginning to think you look forward to my response just so you can see the tag line.....

Make America Great Again! "MAGA."

Please respond back with anything if you believe in Making America Great Again. (-;





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So you are not a government employee you just chose to come one here and call me a Hillary supporter and suggest I cooked my books because why??? I didn't realize your attack on me was totally irrelevant I apologize.
We are discussing Government Employees and double dipping here.

Lets talk about their fair share.

My sister paid int SS her whole life. Died at 60 gets zero. Is that FAIR? It not about fair it is about how the system is designed to work.

Legislators decided years ago that someone who got to exempt themselves from Social Security and instead invest the money they would have paid into Social Security to fund a Government backed Defined Benefit Program Program could not double dip.

That is the law and it sounds reasonable to me.

This thread is about people complaining that their being able to put their earnings into a Government Protected Defined Benefit Pension instead of paying into Social Security causes Social Security to limit the amount of Social Security they can receive is unfair.

My point was/is that it is not really unfair they just think it is.

Nobody else can elect out of Social Security and instead contribute into a Government Protected Defined Benefit Pension.

If we could I would agree life is fair. You are attacking me, but were you able to take the money you should have paid in social security taxes and pay them instead into your 401 K? No you were not.

Now if you can stop your name calling we can discuss MAGA too. Altho we should start another thread and then we will likely be in violation of forum rules.

I'll start by saying the whole Social Security Insurance Scheme is a corrupt socialist government overreach which should be repealed.

People who never worked should not be able to collect. Drug addiction should not qualify people for Medicaid/SSD.

See I did all that without ever one calling you names, accusing you of cooking your books, or suggesting you supported Hillary.

And dude you should talk to your CPA because the SE tax IS 15.3%. But we pay that on top of all the other taxes. My actual tax rate is Greater then 50%. But I am an EA so it is understandable you would assume a CPA knows more about taxes then I do.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epilepticninja View Post
Americans vs. Democrats
We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross


We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls.


What doesn't kill me, better run

Last edited by 71MUSTY; 05-07-2017 at 1:24 PM..
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  #33  
Old 05-07-2017, 1:25 PM
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First of all. If you are CALPERS, you and your employer does not pay into SS like regular jobs do. That money goes into your retirement system. Unlike SS, you can draw retirement much earlier than if it were paid into SS. Having said that, if you go out and get another job that requires you and your employer to pay SS you don't get it all when your reach SS retirement. I am with you on this. Below is from the website I have posted, please read it and go to the website, good information.
Government Pension Offset
A second provision, the Government Pension Offset (GPO) has also been misapplied to some CSEA members. This provision affects a portion of Social Security benefits that you might be entitled to on your spouse’s, or ex-spouse’s Social Security record.

For example, Jane Doe is a retired classified employee. She and her husband (of at least 10 years) are both receiving Social Security checks. Jane may be entitled to a portion of her husband’s check while he is still living or upon his death, but because she receives a CalPERS pension, she may also be mistakenly subjected to a reduction.

If Social Security sees a retiree like Jane receiving a CalPERS pension, it may apply the GPO to the portion of her spouse’s amount that she should receive. If this happens, her Social Security check would be reduced by two-thirds of the amount she receives from CalPERS. It can add up to a loss of thousands or tens of thousands of dollars over the years.

http://www.csea.com/web/Benefits/Ret...alPERS-Pension
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Old 05-07-2017, 1:32 PM
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Originally Posted by johnthomas View Post
First of all. If you are CALPERS, you and your employer does not pay into SS like regular jobs do. That money goes into your retirement system. Unlike SS, you can draw retirement much earlier than if it were paid into SS. Having said that, if you go out and get another job that requires you and your employer to pay SS you don't get it all when your reach SS retirement. I am with you on this. Below is from the website I have posted, please read it and go to the website, good information.
Government Pension Offset
A second provision, the Government Pension Offset (GPO) has also been misapplied to some CSEA members. This provision affects a portion of Social Security benefits that you might be entitled to on your spouse’s, or ex-spouse’s Social Security record.

For example, Jane Doe is a retired classified employee. She and her husband (of at least 10 years) are both receiving Social Security checks. Jane may be entitled to a portion of her husband’s check while he is still living or upon his death, but because she receives a CalPERS pension, she may also be mistakenly subjected to a reduction.

If Social Security sees a retiree like Jane receiving a CalPERS pension, it may apply the GPO to the portion of her spouse’s amount that she should receive. If this happens, her Social Security check would be reduced by two-thirds of the amount she receives from CalPERS. It can add up to a loss of thousands or tens of thousands of dollars over the years.

http://www.csea.com/web/Benefits/Ret...alPERS-Pension
Agreed, except it is not a loss. She is going to receive exactly the amount she is entitled too. The fact it is several thousand dollars less then she would have receive if she did not have a government pension is irrelevant.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epilepticninja View Post
Americans vs. Democrats
We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross


We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls.


What doesn't kill me, better run
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  #35  
Old 05-07-2017, 1:41 PM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
So you are not a government employee you just chose to come one here and call me a Hillary supporter and suggest I cooked my books because why??? I didn't realize your attack on me was totally irrelevant I apologize.
We are discussing Government Employees and double dipping here.

Lets talk about their fair share.

My sister paid int SS her whole life. Died at 60 gets zero. Is that FAIR? It not about fair it is about how the system is designed to work.

Legislators decided years ago that someone who got to exempt themselves from Social Security and instead invest the money they would have paid into Social Security to fund a Government backed Defined Benefit Program Program could not double dip.

That is the law and it sounds reasonable to me.

This thread is about people complaining that their being able to put their earnings into a Government Protected Defined Benefit Pension instead of paying into Social Security causes Social Security to limit the amount of Social Security they can receive is unfair.

My point was/is that it is not really unfair they just think it is.

Nobody else can elect out of Social Security and instead contribute into a Government Protected Defined Benefit Pension.

If we could I would agree life is fair. You are attacking me, but were you able to take the money you should have paid in social security taxes and pay them instead into your 401 K? No you were not.

Now if you can stop your name calling we can discuss MAGA too. Altho we should start another thread and then we will likely be in violation of forum rules.

I'll start by saying the whole Social Security Insurance Scheme is a corrupt socialist government overreach which should be repealed.

People who never worked should not be able to collect. Drug addiction should not qualify people for Medicaid/SSD.

See I did all that without ever one calling you names, accusing you of cooking your books, or suggesting you supported Hillary.

And dude you should talk to your CPA because the SE tax IS 15.3%. But we pay that on top of all the other taxes. My actual tax rate is Greater then 50%. But I am an EA so it is understandable you would assume a CPA knows more about taxes then I do.
Well, I'm sorry to hear your sister passed at such a young age. As far as her collecting when she's deceased that doesn't make any sense (fairness has nothing to do with it). We don't tax the deceased (Wait a minute I forgot about the inheritance tax) oh yeah, that's for the living. If she had children under 18 or a spouse then absolutely they should get her retirement money. That's fair.

I don't have to personally or directly be affected to take sides on an issue. As far as taxes are concerned now I see you do pay your fair share if what you're saying is correct.

I don't believe I was name-calling although there was some implying on both sides. Is being a Hillary supporter really a bad thing?

At the end of the day, we probably agree on more than we disagree. I also don't want to violate any rules or start another thread so on this issue I can agree to disagree.



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Old 05-07-2017, 1:48 PM
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Originally Posted by 71MUSTY View Post
False, when you went to work for the Government you elected out of Social Security.

Social Security is not intended to give back what we put in, it is intended as a safety net for other less fortunate people.

just like my tax dollars funded your pension.
The law that reduces my SS payout went into effect after I was out of SS. When I left I was entitled to 100% of my earned payments. Is it fair that it's retroactive? No.

You better go back and read what SS was originally charged to do - be a forced savings account to save you money to have in your old age. The gov has since bastardized it and when JFK put the SS trust into the general fund he bankrupted it forever. Being a safety net for the unfortunate is purely a liberal/entitlement arguement.

ZERO of your tax dollars go into my pension. I work for an independent section of a city that produces it's own revenue from sales of utilities - which by the way are sold at a cheaper rate than other SoCal utilities. Our Department also kicks over $70 million a year into the city coffers which is income they don't have to generate by increasing your fees and taxes.
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  #37  
Old 05-07-2017, 2:01 PM
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The law that reduces my SS payout went into effect after I was out of SS. When I left I was entitled to 100% of my earned payments. Is it fair that it's retroactive? No.

You better go back and read what SS was originally charged to do - be a forced savings account to save you money to have in your old age. The gov has since bastardized it and when JFK put the SS trust into the general fund he bankrupted it forever. Being a safety net for the unfortunate is purely a liberal/entitlement arguement.

ZERO of your tax dollars go into my pension. I work for an independent section of a city that produces it's own revenue from sales of utilities - which by the way are sold at a cheaper rate than other SoCal utilities. Our Department also kicks over $70 million a year into the city coffers which is income they don't have to generate by increasing your fees and taxes.
No what changed your benefit was your going to work for the government and electing out of Social Security. The law was passed while you were exempted out of Social Security. Now you are applying to collect Social Security and must comply with current laws.

When I started paying into Social Security the Benefits were not taxable. By your logic should I get my SS tax free?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epilepticninja View Post
Americans vs. Democrats
We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross


We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls.


What doesn't kill me, better run
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  #38  
Old 05-07-2017, 2:11 PM
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I wonder what those who are just starting out think about the f***ed up deal they will get. 20 trillion in current debt, close to 100 trillion in future obligations (false promises) today. Watching public "servants" b**** and moan about the bad deal they are getting while most of them will have to funded their own retirements from their own pay checks must be frosting their a**es.
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Old 05-07-2017, 5:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 3S16 View Post
I've ranted here in the past about losing two thirds of my Social Security benefits due a clause called "Government Pension Offset and Windfall Elimination" provision ...
OP, thanks for the heads up.
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Old 05-07-2017, 5:20 PM
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Originally Posted by P5Ret View Post
You have completely missed the point. It's not about getting the same as you but getting back what was put in? I don't want the same as people who paid in for their entire working career, but I should be allowed to get the benefit's of what I paid in.

Many of us paid into social security just like you did, and some of us are still paying in, but because we have a separate government pension system we should not be allowed to get the full benefit we paid into?

It's about fairness since private sector pension holder's still qualify for full social security benefit's why shouldn't government pensions? If someone paid into the system shouldn't they be allowed the benefit's for the time they paid in? I guess if social security was reduced for IRA or 401k holder's it would be a different matter entirely.
I just want to get what I was entitled. Not at the reduced rate because I have another pension. I put in so much, and I want to get what I was supposed to get whether I get another pension or not.
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