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Camping, Hiking and Outdoor Activities Camping, hiking, and other outdoor activities within. |
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Firearms in Forests and Parks
Yes this thread is now unbearably long, but you will most likely find the answers you need right here in the first two posts, which I keep up-to-date.
"Can I possess/carry my handgun/rifle/shotgun openly/loaded/concealed/otherwise when I am hiking/camping/hunting/other in the forest/park/campground/wilderness in California?" First, it is very important to understand that there are many different types of "forests" and "parks" and they are all run by different government agencies with different restrictions. Here is a list of the most common types of parks, forests, and public lands, and their respective firearms restrictions: - National Parks, Federal, National Park Service, US Department of the Interior - firearms now permitted but CA law severely restricts - see *1 - National Forests, Federal, US Forest Service, US Department of Agriculture - firearms and shooting welcomed but CA state law applies - see *2 - BLM Land, Federal, Bureau of Land Management, US Department of the Interior - firearms and shooting permitted but CA state law applies - see *2 - State Parks, State, California Department of Parks and Recreation - firearms prohibited - see *3 - Regional Parks, some are county owned (example), some are city owned - firearms often prohibited per local ordinance findlaw.com municode.com *1 - National Parks Details: - The firearms prohibition in NPs and NWRs was lifted on 2/22/10. See the "Important Notes" about HR 267 in the second post for more details. - UOC of handguns is not legal in NPs effective 1/1/12 as a result of AB144 (PC 26350) and the NP's blanket "no shooting anywhere" policy - LOC, UOC, UCC, and LCC are all legal in one's campsite. (PC 26055, 26383, & 25605) - Since NPs can be near/within urban areas, school zones can be an issue. Unlocked/operable firearms are not allowed within 1000 feet of a K-12 school. - CA CCW permit holders may LCC anywhere in NPs except in federal facilities (buildings with federal employees and no-firearms signs posted). *2 - National Forest and BLM Details: - LOC and UOC are legal everywhere except "prohibited areas" (areas where shooting is prohibited) - LOC, UOC, UCC, and LCC are all legal in one's campsite. (PC 26055, 26383, & 25605) - Shooting is prohibited within 150 yards of any residence, building, campsite, or developed site ("prohibited areas") - Shooting is prohibited on or across roads or bodies of water ("prohibited areas") - common opinion is that UOC of handguns is now illegal in "prohibited areas" of NF/BLM (AB144 / PC 26350) not all agree (PC 26388) - Forest administrators have the authority to prohibit shooting in other areas of the NF but must clearly post this information ("prohibited areas") - IMPORTANT NOTICE - some NFs are now banning shooting almost entirely - see this post - this makes the entire forest a "prohibited area" - BLM administrators may post closures and restrictions regarding firearms use ("prohibited areas") - LCC is legal for licensed hunters/fishermen, while hunting/fishing, but only where shooting is not prohibited (PC 25640) - UCC is legal for licensed hunters/fishermen while hunting/fishing and while traveling to/from hunting/fishing expeditions (PC 25640) - UOC is legal for licensed hunters while hunting and while traveling to/from hunting expeditions (PC 26366) - CA CCW permit holders may disregard most of these restrictions and LCC in NF/BLM *3 - State Parks Details: - LUCC is the only legal way for non CCW permit holders to carry in CA State Parks - firearms permitted in vehicles and temporary lodgings when unloaded and "packed, cased or stored in a manner that will prevent their ready use" - CA CCW permit holders may apparently LCC firearms in California State Parks Acronyms used in this thread: UOC - unloaded open carry LOC - loaded open carry UCC - unloaded concealed carry LCC - loaded concealed carry LUCC - locked unloaded concealed carry (called LCC in this thread which will cause confusion) Additional types of public lands: - Wilderness Areas, Federal, within or part of a National Park - firearms now permitted but CA law severely restricts *1 - Wilderness Areas, Federal, within or part of a National Forest - shooting and/or possession sometimes prohibited, check with local ranger station - National Monuments, Federal, various agencies but usually the NPS - firearms now permitted but CA law severely restricts *1 - National Wildlife Refuges, Federal, US Fish and Wildlife Service, US Department of the Interior - firearms now permitted but CA law severely restricts *1 - US Army Corp of Engineers Recreation Areas (SF, Sac, LA) - firearms prohibited - Update: legal challenge continuing - DFG Wildlife Areas and Reserves, State, California Department of Fish & Game - firearms restrictions vary (usually very prohibitive) - Demonstration State Forests, State, California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection (CDF / CAL Fire) - firearms permitted, some restrictions - (details) - PG&E Recreation Areas - no official restrictions, generally the same as neighboring federal lands, state laws apply (details) - Private lands and privately owned campgrounds - firearms either permitted or restricted by the owner - Open Space Districts (a form of CA Special District) - unknown, TBD - Land Trusts - unknown, TBD This thread's focus is on parks/forests/campgrounds/etc. in California. Not all of the specifics and subtleties of carry, loaded, and transport laws are covered here. So, - For specifics about transporting firearms, see the CGF wiki page on transporting - For details about the definitions of loaded, see Defining loaded in California. See the second post in this thread for summaries and links to all relevant federal and state laws. A printer friendly version of this post is available here. Additional PDF documents that may be useful to carry with you are linked here. A shortened URL for this thread: tinyurl.com/fifap Last edited by MudCamper; 01-10-2023 at 8:04 AM.. |
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Firearms in Forests and Parks - Code Citations
Following are citations of all applicable state and federal laws.
State PC 25400 (formerly 12025) (abridged) Quote:
Note: PC 25400 only applies to hand guns, not rifles or shotguns, which may be concealed. State PC 25640 (formerly 12027(g)) exemption to 25400 Quote:
State PC 25850 (formerly 12031) (abridged) Quote:
State PC 26350 (AB144) (abridged) Quote:
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State CCR Title 14, Div 3, Chap 1, s 4313 (abridged) (CA State Parks) Quote:
State CPRC 5003.1 (abridged) (CA State Parks) Quote:
Federal 36 CFR 261.10 (d) (National Forests) Quote:
Federal 36 CFR 261.58 (abridged) (National Forests) Quote:
Federal 36 CFR 261.57 (abridged) (Wilderness Areas only in NFs) Quote:
Federal 43 CFR 8364 (abridged) (BLM lands) Quote:
Federal 43 CFR 8365 (abridged) (BLM lands) Quote:
Federal 36 CFR 2.4 (a) (National Parks) (Section (i) and (ii) not enforceable unless state laws are also violated) Quote:
H.R.627 s 512 (b): Quote:
Federal 36 CFR 327.13 (Corps of Engineers) Quote:
State Fish and Game Code s 2006 Quote:
State Fish and Game Code s 3004 Quote:
Last edited by MudCamper; 03-30-2016 at 9:28 AM.. |
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Firearms in Forests and Parks - Scenarios
A common source of confusion is assuming that one code exemption applies to all codes. Be careful not to fall into this trap.
For example, it is a common misbelief that it is always legal to possess a loaded firearm in one's campsite. While it is true that 26055 exempts you from 25850 (loaded), and 25605(a) exempts you from 25400 (concealed), it does not prevent your violation and conviction of some other local, state, or federal code. Another common mistake is confusing concealing with loading. These are addressed by two separate laws with two separate penal code sections. Scenario 1: You are in a California State Park, in your campsite, carrying an unloaded handgun. Status: illegal - violation of CCR Title 14, Div 3, Chap 1, s 4313, possessing a firearm in a State Park Scenario 2: You are in a National Forest, or a National Park, or on BLM land, in your campsite, carrying a loaded handgun openly or concealed. Status: legal - 26055 exempts you from 25850 (loaded) and 25605(a) exempts you from 25400 (concealed) Scenario 3: You are in a National Forest, walking from your campsite to a public pit toilet, carrying a loaded handgun openly in a belt holster. Status: illegal - 25850 violation - you are not in your own campsite, and are in an area where shooting is prohibited, so 25850 applies ** Scenario 4: You are in a National Forest, walking from your campsite to a public pit toilet, carrying an unloaded handgun openly in a belt holster. Status: was legal pre-2012, the current legal status is not clear at this time (AB144/26350/26388) Scenario 5: A licensed fisherman is fishing a stream in the National Forest, within 150 yards of a developed campsite. He is carrying a loaded concealed handgun. Status: illegal - while not violating 25400 (concealed) because of 25640, he is violating 25850 (loaded) because the nearby campsite triggers the "prohibited area" language ** Scenario 6: A licensed hunter or fisherman is traveling to his hunting or fishing expedition, carrying an unloaded concealed firearm. He passes a K-12 school during his trip. Status: illegal - while not violating 25400 (concealed) because of 25640, he is violating 626.9 by passing within 1000 feet of a school without locking up his handgun ** - This entire thread presumes that the "prohibited area" language in 25850 is triggered by the various federal shooting restrictions. This is the more cautious interpretation, however, there are other interpretations. Last edited by MudCamper; 03-30-2016 at 8:26 PM.. |
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Last edited by MudCamper; 06-29-2009 at 3:27 PM.. |
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Last edited by MudCamper; 10-10-2009 at 9:03 AM.. |
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For state parks, you should add that unloaded firearms are also permitted in "temporary lodging". I'm not sure exactly what that means, but I would assume that a tent or camper would qualify. The "not having a cartridge in any portion of the mechanism" is kind of vague. Are magazines considered to be a "portion of the mechanism"? |
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If you plan to drive in the Nat'l Forrest, it would be wise to get a current map that shows the legal roads for vehicle travel (and illegal for LOC), as the closed roads are all still there, but are not for motor vehicle use any longer. I do not know the status of the suit, and whether or not any of these roads are ever going to be opened again or not.
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"As soon as we burn 'em," Chinn said, "more come in." Ignatius Chinn, a FORMER veteran firearms agent. CONTRA COSTA TIMES 03/04/2008 "please guys please no ridiculous offers....Im a girl, not an idiot" Mistisa242 |
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Ok some good info. So If I'm on a trail that crosses a NFS numbered road I have to unload once I get 150yds away, walk across the road, and then reload once I'm across and 150yds into the trees, Lame. With my luck these days I'm going to encounter an axe wielding tweeker guarding his lab with a pair of attack bears at 145yds!
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Ah ok. That makes a lot more sense.
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Gawd, how I hope for the day when my right to keep and bear arms actually means keep and bear arms.
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Just get a CCW permit and keep it concealed.
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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. NRA LIFE MEMBER |
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awesome thanks
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2 HANDGUNS STOLEN! 1 RECOVERED READ HERE Chickens Want to get into Ham Radio? Click here http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=202581 |
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I am going to take the family to the Western Sierras this summer for camping, in the Sierra National Forest, in the old days I took a 12 ga with slugs camping out of the car. Looks like it's a Condor Zone now. Do I have to have lead free slugs for purely a defensive use, bears?
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"The California matrix of gun control laws is among the harshest in the nation and are filled with criminal law traps for people of common intelligence who desire to obey the law." - U.S. District Judge Roger T. Benitez |
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Open carry in Ca. while backpacking or camping
I need some clarification. Am I able to open carry(pistol) with full clip in same holster(gun is unloaded obviously) while backpacking or camping in state or fed. park? Or am I able to carry open or concealed while loaded??
Thanks Matt Last edited by hush; 06-13-2009 at 8:43 PM.. |
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There are certain areas that restrict "any" lead in possession. Tejon Ranch is one, on our recent pig hunt there I was just filming but I had to clear my truck of all lead to enter the ranch. That was Tejon's policy in their TOU. |
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Firearms are not allowed in State Parks, except locked up in vehicles. Firearms will be allowed in National Parks after the new law goes into effect next year, but are not allowed now, unless locked up in vehicles. |
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Just forwarded someone to this thread, it's an excellent summation and starting point for answering, "Can I legally carry in..."
A staff member should sticky this thread. It gets asked a LOT.
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Disclaimer: The poster is not responsible for any damage to the reader's keyboard, monitor, or dignity as a result of this post's comments. "I am a sinner that does not expect forgiveness. But I am not a government official." Francis Wolcott (Deadwood) |
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State CCR Title 14, Div 3, Chap 1, s 4313 (a) (abridged) (CA State Parks) Quote:
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This thread, which is about restrictions in wilderness areas in the Stanislaus NF, is interesting reading for those interested in this topic.
In summation, the SNF website states that firearms are not allowed in the wilderness areas, but in fact that is beyond their authority. They can only ban shooting, not possession or carry. This thread has been updated where necessary. UPDATE 11/9/10 I was mistaken. Per 36 CFR 261.57 the FS can ban possession in a wilderness area. However it is still not clear weather SNF bans possession or just shooting in the wilderness areas. Last edited by MudCamper; 11-09-2009 at 7:54 AM.. |
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Seems like these people have no idea what they're talking about and could potentially get folks in trouble with bad info. If I understand correctly, I can coceal carry with hunting/fishing license, while hunting/fishing? I can also keep a loaded firearm in my campsite? I understand this is all dependant on location but right now I'm only interested in Stanislaus and specifically Carson-Iceberg Wilderness. |
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Correct. This is even true in a wilderness area where shooting is prohibited. This is because it is 12031 that states you cannot load where shooting is prohibited, but 12031 also self-exempts in one's temporary residence or campsite. |
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Some state parks you CAN in fact open carry with a loaded magazine in the gun but not a round in the chamber (same as federal state parks) however EACH state park has it's own guns laws. MOST do not allow ANY guns except locked in your vehicle. (Check each location specifically to ensure your safe) But Federal (National) forrestry you can carry LOC legally as long as your NOT in a vehicle and if your in a vehicle you can NOT have a round in the chamber. But a loaded magazine is ok. This is on any marked or designated roads or trails. |
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While basically correct, this statement appears to be a mixed confusion of F&G and PC. Please read the first 2 posts of the thread. Last edited by MudCamper; 06-22-2009 at 9:05 AM.. |
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Still have not had a chance to peek but found this off a site while looking for other info about the Tahoe National Forest.
link http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/tahoe/faq/index.shtml#12 National Forest lands are subject to both federal and state regulations. In general, you can carry a firearm on Tahoe NF lands, subject to the requirements of state law. Target shooting and hunting is also allowed, subject to regulation and common sense. 36 CFR 261.10(d) prohibits Discharging a firearm or any other implement capable of taking human life, causing injury, or damaging property as follows: (1) In or within 150 yards of a residence, building, campsite, developed recreation site or occupied area, or (2) Across or on a Forest Development road or a body of water adjacent thereto, or in any manner or place whereby any person or property is exposed to injury or damage as a result in such discharge. National Forest lands around French Meadows reservoir and the northwest portion of the Granite Chief wilderness are within the boundaries of French Meadows State Game Refuge. State law prohibits possession or discharge of firearms, pellet guns, and bows and arrows within the refuge. |
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So if I'm in a national forest, I am able to possess a loaded shotgun within my camp site correct?
What about discharging a firearm within a national forest? Is it legal unless prohibited by posting? |
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Correct. |
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Jesus. Might as well just carry a baseball bat.
__________________
The Answer To 1984 Is 1776 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The free people of the world are at war with an insidious enemy: a global banking oligarchy determined to shipwreck the economies of the world and feast on its corpse. |
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