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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 12-21-2012, 10:20 AM
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Default 2013 CA SB 53 - Deleon/Yee Ammunition purchase permits (FAILED)

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...=201320140SB53

See also
the Beginner's guide to reading bills and
a short post on How a Bill Becomes Law
Quote:
(1) Existing law requires the Attorney General to maintain records, including among other things, fingerprints, licenses to carry concealed firearms, and information from firearms dealers pertaining to firearms, for purposes of assisting in the investigation of crimes, and specified civil actions.

This bill would require the Attorney General to also maintain copies of ammunition purchase permits for those purposes.

(2) Existing law, subject to exceptions, requires that the delivery or transfer of ownership of handgun ammunition occur only in a face-to-face transaction. Existing law provides that the term “vendor” for purposes of ammunition sales is a “handgun ammunition vendor” as defined for those and other purposes.

This bill would extend those provisions to any ammunition. The bill would provide that the term “vendor” for purposes of ammunition sales means “ammunition vendor” as defined for those and other purposes. The bill would make additional conforming changes.

(3) Existing law prohibits an ammunition vendor from allowing a person the vendor knows or should know is a person who is prohibited from possessing firearms for specified reasons, from handling, selling, or delivering handgun ammunition in the course and scope of their employment. Existing law prohibits an ammunition vendor from selling or otherwise transferring ownership of, offering for sale or otherwise offering to transfer ownership of, or displaying for sale or displaying for transfer of ownership of, any handgun ammunition in a manner that allows that ammunition to be accessible to a purchaser or transferee without the assistance of the vendor or an employee of the vendor.

This bill would extend those prohibitions to any ammunition. The bill would provide that a violation of those provisions is a misdemeanor.
By creating a new crime, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program.

(4) Existing law subject to exceptions, requires a handgun ammunition vendor to record specified information at the time of delivery of handgun ammunition to a purchaser, as specified.
[[[ Seems like they think 962, the unconstitutionally vague law, is still in effect; to be fair, it still 'exists' in the PC.]]]

This bill would extend those provisions to transactions of any ammunition. The bill would, commencing September 1, 2014, and subject to exceptions, require the purchaser of ammunition to hold an ammunition purchase permit, or other specified permit, license, or certificate pertaining to acquisition, possession, or carrying firearms, as provided, or other specified documentation for a person who is not a state resident. The bill would, commencing September 1, 2014, require the vendor to submit to the Department of Justice information demonstrating compliance with that verification requirement, as specified. The bill would, commencing June 1, 2014, authorize issuance of ammunition purchase permits by the Department of Justice to applicants who are residents of this state, at least 18 years of age, not prohibited from acquiring or possessing ammunition, and who pay the required fees, as specified. The bill would establish an application process and specify the information to be displayed on the permit. The bill would provide that the permit authorizes the holder to purchase ammunition from an ammunition vendor.

(5) The California Constitution requires the state to reimburse local agencies and school districts for certain costs mandated by the state. Statutory provisions establish procedures for making that reimbursement.
This bill would provide that no reimbursement is required by this act for a specified reason.
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Last edited by Librarian; 12-21-2012 at 10:30 AM..
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:25 AM
Moonshine Moonshine is offline
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This language is vague enough that they can make these permits as hard to obtain as assault weapons permits!
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:26 AM
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very vague. Thanks for the update!
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:28 AM
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They're not saying what the reasons are for permit issuance/denial and therefore leaving it up to the DOJ. It sounds to me like many permits will be denied and ammunition access will be VERY limited.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:32 AM
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(c) Commencing on September 1, 2014, only those persons listed below or those persons or entities listed in subdivision (d) shall be permitted to purchase ammunition. Prior to the delivery of the ammunition, the vendor shall verify that the person who is receiving delivery of the ammunition is a properly identified person or entity listed in subdivision (d) or one of the following:
(1) A holder of a valid ammunition purchase permit issued pursuant to Section 30370.
(2) A person who is authorized to carry loaded firearms pursuant to Section 25900, 25905, 25910, 25925, 26010, 26015, 26025, or 26030.


Appears to exempt CCW holders from needing the ammo permit.
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  #6  
Old 12-21-2012, 10:37 AM
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if there were a proposed gun bill counter it would be going up as fast as the debt clock
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  #7  
Old 12-21-2012, 10:48 AM
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Retracted.

Last edited by Diablohtr; 12-21-2012 at 10:55 AM..
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  #8  
Old 12-21-2012, 10:52 AM
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tagged
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  #9  
Old 12-21-2012, 10:54 AM
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I was going to say something but it would just provide assistance in writing this bill... Hmm... MAYBE WE SHOULD ALL STAY QUIET.......
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:55 AM
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Here we go again.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:56 AM
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Now out of state visitors to CA have to furnish a CCW or ownership ID to purchase ammo.Yay.
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  #12  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:04 AM
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Loose lips sink ships boys.
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  #13  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:07 AM
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Last time SB-249 came up language from this forum made it into the bill. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
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  #14  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:07 AM
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So whos gunna pay for all this courts are certainly broke as hell
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:18 AM
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Cross post
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
Last time SB-249 came up language from this forum made it into the bill. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
It would be nice if we could get one comment regarding odds of passing from the legal experts. That way maybe I can stop doing this:

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Old 12-21-2012, 11:21 AM
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just relax, and don't show your cards :-)
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  #18  
Old 12-21-2012, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sousuke View Post
It would be nice if we could get one comment regarding odds of passing from the legal experts. That way maybe I can stop doing this:

Thats only helping them out too. If they think they can pass it and the legal experts think otherwise, wouldnt it be smart to let them play thier hand first?
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sousuke View Post
It would be nice if we could get one comment regarding odds of passing from the legal experts. That way maybe I can stop doing this:
theres no way to answer that though. I dont have enough knowledge to say anything about its passing, but if an "expert" says its not going to pass then there can likely be work done to get it to pass. If someone says it will pass, then the panic continues. It only makes sense, especially with CA gov as it is, to expect that it will pass and plan accordingly and then if it doesnt its no biggie to you
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13withinfinity View Post
Thats only helping them out too. If they think they can pass it and the legal experts think otherwise, wouldnt it be smart to let them play thier hand first?
Maybe, I'm mainly afraid it will sit in the courts for years before action is taken.
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:36 AM
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I will say one thing though, they are going up against a opponent flush with cash and determination and they are doing so with a bankrupt state and bankrupt court. Lets not give them anything until we take them to court where we have the advantage.
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:39 AM
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I am quite sure Brown would veto a bill this wacko. More than I can say for the guy he replaced however....
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13withinfinity View Post
So whos gunna pay for all this courts are certainly broke as hell
People who buy ammo will pay for it. You don't think those permits are going to be free do you?
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:53 AM
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People who buy ammo will pay for it. You don't think those permits are going to be free do you?
That is if the DOJ issues them to begin with. :P
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:17 PM
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So im good with the 240,000 rounds I currently own? Cool deal.
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half of you here are weak and lame that will basically wind up being happy with .22 single shot pistols or single barrel shotguns..

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  #26  
Old 12-21-2012, 12:18 PM
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Isn't ammunition protected by the same 2nd ammendment rights as firearms? Thought there was precedent for that.
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:33 PM
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How much do you guys want to bet that Deleon & Yee, or their staff, have an account trolling this site right now?
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:35 PM
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Their staff is on this site reading these posts. Lose lips sink ships... Err legal challenges heh!
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBruce View Post
Isn't ammunition protected by the same 2nd ammendment rights as firearms? Thought there was precedent for that.
DROS

Handgun Registration (and long gun soon)

BFSC

Thumbprint for ammo (LA City)


The 2nd Ammendment didn't stop any of that did it?
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:43 PM
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If this passes and goes into effect Sept 1st 2014, I will be moving out of this bull**** state on or before Aug 31st 2014. I will take my successful business and tax dollars out of state and hope this crooked state goes further into debt.
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:45 PM
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When they started finger printing up here in Sacramento, shops in Placer county started getting more of my business. Ammo licenses will hurt California businesses and create more unemployment.
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Old 12-21-2012, 1:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
Last time SB-249 came up language from this forum made it into the bill.
Which language? Just curious, thanks.
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Old 12-21-2012, 1:12 PM
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Moonshine forgets that the broadening of 249 was a good thing.
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Old 12-21-2012, 1:54 PM
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AB962 anyone?
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Old 12-21-2012, 2:09 PM
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So I go through an annual background check to buy ammo but my CCW is good for multiple years? Makes no sense.
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Old 12-21-2012, 2:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FABIO GETS GOOSED!!! View Post
Which language? Just curious, thanks.
Nevermind, brain fart, I was thinking about the handgun ammo bill (AB 962).
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Old 12-21-2012, 2:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
This language is vague enough that they can make these permits as hard to obtain as assault weapons permits!
That's the goal. A permit means that you need permission to buy ammo. This their goal one way or another the Democrats will take away our rights guns first.
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Old 12-21-2012, 2:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustoff31 View Post
People who buy ammo will pay for it. You don't think those permits are going to be free do you?
Permits won't be issued that's the point. And they know it.
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Old 12-21-2012, 2:30 PM
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Default real world results.

Our opponents are practicing the death by a 1000 cuts.

Of course since this bill will affect all gun owners, we can use their proposals to get more people on our side to get of their ***es and get involved.

Collectively we got the government we deserve because our fellow gun owners wouldn't pull their weight to protect gun rights.

The reality is only a small percentage of gun owners do anything, if the percentage of gun owners who got involved jumped from 1 percent to 10 percent, we wouldn't be having these problems.

In all honesty, in an ideal world, we would have 100 percent participation.

Last edited by nicki; 12-21-2012 at 2:32 PM.. Reason: add
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Old 12-21-2012, 2:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mag360 View Post
Loose lips sink ships boys.
Quoted for truth.

Don't help them write a better bill.
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