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#41
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It should be legal to cut it as marked. ATF has been approving Form 1's in CA to do exactly that. Nobody's tried to transfer a Form 1'ed C&R SBS/SBR on a Form 4 yet, but I don't know why it wouldn't be transferrable later on. I'm not even thinking about that, could you imagine trying to do a PPT on it that the dealer would have to hold for 2-3months? Easiest is to just plan on it being permanently yours.
I think you may be thinking about "transferrable" as it applies to MG's and if they were made pre/post 86, and that is a different situation there. If its worth $900, thats a question you have to decide for yourself. If the NFA were to be overturned (doesn't look like that will happen per Heller) then who knows. The devaluing of tube guns is more likely to a overturning of 922(o), the "new MG" ban, which does have a chance of being overturned. That would not affect your SBS. Remember, that $600 trust can be cost-averaged over multiple NFA items, reducing the "cost" of each gun. And watch out, "tax stamp disease" is just as bad as black rifle disease, so your first tax stamp may not be your last. Oh, and the tax stamp is $200 to make or transfer an NFA item, except for an AOW Form 4 transfer, which is $5.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#42
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Thanks for the information, Jack!
Yes, I was thinking of the MG kind of "transferrable", and I wasn't sure if that also applied to other kinds of NFA weapons. Since it appears that it's possible to catch the NFA sickness in CA for a bit south of a grand, I guess I should read up on the details now! That POS shotgun would still be a POS if I threw $800 and a hacksaw at it, but at least it would take up less room in the safe. ETA: Would I need to travel to Oakland to use your service, Oaklander? I was born there, but I escaped! Last edited by 383green; 07-14-2008 at 12:09 PM.. Reason: I'm getting senile. |
#43
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CA State Bar Pamphlet on Trusts
A lot of basic info, but some of the things discussed such as tax return etc. are addressd and this is an official CA State document.
http://www.calbar.ca.gov/calbar/pdfs...st-English.pdf |
#44
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BTW, do you have any more rusty $50 shotguns lying around? |
#45
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#46
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Many of you have contacted me with questions about NFA trusts. . .
To answer your questions, I will be be setting up a FREE conference call next week in which interested Calgunners can call in and speak with me, and the attorney I am working with. Together we will answer your questions about NFA trusts, and NFA law in general. PLEASE REMEMBER THAT THIS CONFERENCE CALL IS FOR GENERAL INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY, AND DOES NOT CONSTITUTE LEGAL ADVICE. The call will be @ 7pm PST this coming Wednesday (7/23/08). Please EMAIL me if you are interested, and I will give you the conference call "bridge" number and passcode. Please include your real name and your Calguns handle, so I know who you are. My email address is kevin (at) thomasonlawoffice (dot) com. Please don't PM me about this, since my PM box is almost full!!! The conference call bridge can handle up to about 15 callers - so the first 15 people to contact me will be in on this call. I will also be doing subsequent calls, if the interest is high enough on this one. Kevin |
#47
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I should really start giving people the RLT that only needs to be filled out and signed. It works too
I'll finally be able to buy that PVS-14 and DBAL-A2 I've always wanted after only 10 trust |
#49
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Technically, you CAN.
But you won't get the permit from the DOJ that will allow you to posess one. And of course it has to be pre-may 1986.
__________________
Please read the Calguns Wiki Quote:
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#51
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And?
NFA trusts are not a way to get MGs in CA, and expecially not dealer samples. Who just purchased some DS's in OC?
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#52
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so if you want a sbr or aow it has to be c&r? Last edited by Sam1; 09-07-2008 at 8:25 AM.. |
#53
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For normal people, no. You gotta become a NFA dealer or have a movie studio. Might be a couple other unobtainium options out there.
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#54
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He has own and posses CA-DOJ Permits: MG, SB, DD and AW and the Fed NFA. Most NFA's in this state are dealers, they can't own. He can, one of three in the state. Good friend to have.
He's high profile, takes about 30 seconds to search him out. You'll never see him posting here though. He does post a lot on a local ccw site. |
#55
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I have a friend in OC that has all the state permits for MG, SBR, Suppressor, DD etc...
__________________
Randall Rausch AR work: www.ar15barrels.com Bolt actions: www.700barrels.com Foreign Semi Autos: www.akbarrels.com Barrel, sight and trigger work on most pistols and shotguns. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. |
#56
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Jealous of your friend, I am.
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#57
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What if we bought into or built a "war" or "weapons" museum. We could all get Curator statis. We would of corse need to live fire the weapons to gain a better understanding of then. At least I think museums can own NFA items?
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#60
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Quote:
-Gene
__________________
Gene Hoffman Chairman, California Gun Rights Foundation DONATE NOW to support the rights of California gun owners. Follow @cgfgunrights on Twitter. Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization. I read PMs. But, if you need a response, include an email address or email me directly! "The problem with being a gun rights supporter is that the left hates guns and the right hates rights." -Anon
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#61
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Federally, anything over .50 cal is a "Destructive Device".
In California, anything over .60 cal is a "Destructive Device". This has me drooling over the idea of picking something up that's under .60 cal, but over .50 cal!
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Today, they walk among us. They’re on the television, they write for the newspapers, they have infiltrated the schools, the political system, and law enforcement. They call themselves Liberals. |
#63
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So, with the stamp I can legally own and possess a .50 BMG rifle?
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#64
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nope. A .50BMG is not an NFA destructive device, so you can't get a stamp for it. And even then, there is no exemption the CA .50BMG rifle ban for those with tax stamps. Now, there is an exemption for C&R rifles. So, a Boys Rifle rebarreled with a .50BMG barrel should still be C&R and would be exempt.
What Aaron was talking about was stuff between .51" and .60" that is legal in CA. You'd need a DD tax stamp to satisfy federal law, but be unregulated in CA. And, there are some items that are between .51" and .60" that have federal DD-exemptions due to "sporting purposes". Such as the 14.5mm JDJ, a necked up .50BMG with a 14.5mm bullet, around .58".
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Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#68
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yes, can I name my wife and 1 year old boy as trustees / beneficiarys so they can shoot and not worry? will you help with completing appropriate forms after trust is created ? can it be amended if i have another child ? can i add a brother /father/ friend ? what happens if i die. i dont want anybody getting in trouble for posession, but i dont my stuff detroyed
regarding SBS..so i can hack my beater A5 thats older than 50 years down to just past the end of the mag tube and cut the stock way down for that Clyde Barrow commemorative look or a old beater double barrell as described above, but i cn not put a pistol grip and a 14 inch barrell on my 870 or 11-87 ? |
#69
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i
i'll be calling u
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#72
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With this trust, would you be able to get a suppressor out of state (AZ). If you have a home there? Or is this trust for CA only
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#73
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I bought an AAC Aviator suppressor two years ago. I live in California, and used my California address on the Form 4. I obviously keep it out of state, and attached a letter to my Form 4 that specifiied the storage address. This letter became an attachment to my Form 4 when it came back (approved). If the out-of-state storage location happens to be NFA-friendly, meaning that the CLEO of the county will sign off on the reverse side of the Form 4, there is no need to set up a trust. In my case, I was able to get the CLEO sign off quite easily. Of course, I needed to have the FBI fingerprint cards code, and submit photos, but that is simply part of the process.
If you plan to purchase multiple NFA items, or if the CLEO of the county where it will be stored is not NFA-friendly, setting up a trust probably has some value. For the limited number of NFA items that can be kept in-state, and given that for many of us the chance of the CLEO signing off on the Form 4 is somewhere between zero and none, the trust may be your only venue. Anyway, just my $0.02 from my own experience... |
#74
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Dr Ken, This is interesting. Do you have 'residency' in the other state, or did you just file Form 4 as "Hi, I'm a Californian but won't bring this back into CA."?
__________________
Bill Wiese San Jose, CA CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member
No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#75
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I did the latter. I spoke with the NFA branch of the ATF who advised that I should use my California address on the Form 4, but that the CLEO signoff should be from the county of the other state where it is intended to be stored. Because there is no place on a Form 4 to specify that the storage location is somewhere other than my physical address, I included the following in a letter that became an attachment to my Form 4:
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#76
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Oh, and to clarify, I have residency only in California. When purchasing NFA items, the residency requirement that we know (and hate) for handguns simply does not apply. But, you need to have an out-of-state storage location if your state of residency does allow NFA items to be possessed. For some people, this is no small task.
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#79
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No, a trust does not allow for modern SBS/SBRs. A trust only exempts you from needing CLEO sign-off. It does not exempt you from any needed CADOJ permits. Basically only CA-legal NFA items such AOWs, C&R SBx, and DDs between .51" and .60" are available with a trust. Those same items are available to people without a trust, if their CLEO was willing to sign off on it.
__________________
Jack Do you want an AOW or C&R SBS/SBR in CA? No posts of mine are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer. |
#80
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Folks, I am getting swamped with 2A work, and thus need to refocus my time on the 2A work. I have contacted another "trusted" (pun intended) lawyer who is located in California, and can do these trusts. It appears that he will do them at the same price.
IF you are interested in an NFA trust, please contact: David Duringer 1-888-929-9455 info@lawnews.tv GunTrust.org |
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