If I live in CA, can I go to (OR, NV, AZ) and buy a gun? NO

[kryptonicrxn]

Thank you, will do.

[rckjeep]

With the interstate transfer law recently deemed unconstitutional can I buy a CA legal Rimfire rifle in Nevada since CA prices and availability are crap? Also would the 10 day waiting period be used since its bought in NV?

[Quiet]

Originally Posted by rckjeep

With the interstate transfer law recently deemed unconstitutional can I buy a CA legal Rimfire rifle in Nevada since CA prices and availability are crap? Also would the 10 day waiting period be used since its bought in NV?

Federal laws have allowed a FFL dealer in transferring a rifle or shotgun to a non-resident, as long as the transfer complies with both the State laws of the FFL dealer and the non-resident. Handguns and other firearms can only be transferred through a FFL dealer in the recipient's State of residence.

The decision (Mance v Holder) would change that, so a FFL dealer can transfer a firearm (handgun, other, rifle, shotgun) to a non-resident, as long as the transfer complies with both the State laws of the FFL dealer and the non-resident.

This decision does not change the fact it will still be Federal felonies for residents of different States to transfer firearms without the use of a FFL.

Therefore...
If the decision is upheld and goes into effect, as a CA resident, any firearm acquired in another State needs to be done in a method that complies with CA laws and the State laws of the FFL dealer.

Current CA laws [PC 27585], requires any firearm acquired by a CA resident in another State to be transferred to them through a CA FFL dealer in order to be legally imported into CA.

So, unless CA laws change, a CA resident may be able to acquire a firearm from a FFL dealer in another State but they will need to keep that firearm in that other State and never bring it to CA, unless it is transferred through a CA FFL dealer.

[RickD427]

Originally Posted by rckjeep

With the interstate transfer law recently deemed unconstitutional can I buy a CA legal Rimfire rifle in Nevada since CA prices and availability are crap? Also would the 10 day waiting period be used since its bought in NV?

I'm assuming that you're referring to the trial court decision in Mance v. Holder.

That doesn't change anything here in California.

That decision was reached by a District Court judge in a matter before that court. For the moment, that's a far as the holding reaches. Should the government appeal (its a pretty sure bet that they will), then the Fifth Circuit will hear the case. If they publish their decision, then it will only reach Fifth Circuit. It still will not do anything for California. If the Fifth Circuit decision is appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, and if the court agrees to hear the case, and if the Supreme Court rules in favor of Mr. Mance, then we'll have something that is authoritative in California.

Please count up the number of "ifs" that have to occur, and then consider the glacial time-line required for all of that to occur.

Short answer: No, you cannot simply buy a rimfire rifle in Nevada and bring it back to California. If you're a dual-resident, you may proceed as Quiet has suggested above, but I doubt that you would be saving any money after paying the California FFL.

[swamp2]

I think it has been covered, but just want to make 100% sure. A family member resident in another state may gift an off roster pistol to their CA resident relative through a CA FFL? Any difference if friend instead of family from another state? Thanks much.

[mej16489]

Originally Posted by swamp2

I think it has been covered, but just want to make 100% sure. A family member resident in another state may gift an off roster pistol to their CA resident relative through a CA FFL? Any difference if friend instead of family from another state? Thanks much.

Yes there is a difference - intrafamilial transfers are roster-exempt; other out-of-state transfers are not.

[Kate]

Here's a weird scenario that I didn't see covered in the thread, but is in fact a real case:
Joe Doe bought a long gun (legal in CA) in CA in the 1980s. Joe gave that rifle to his son, John, at that time. No paperwork was done. But John let Joe keep the gun in Joe's possession. 30 years later when Joe dies, John does not take back the rifle, but asks his brother Jack, who lives in NV, to hold on to it, and Jack takes it back to NV. Two years later, John wants his rifle back.

The rifle has technically been John's since the 1980s. True? Is it legally still John's rifle? Is there a legal way for John to take back possession of his rifle? If so, can Jack just ship the rifle to John? Does Jack have to ship it to a CA FFL? What if John drives to NV to pick up his rifle? Would that be legal?

Thanks for your insights!

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by Kate

Here's a weird scenario that I didn't see covered in the thread, but is in fact a real case:

1) Joe Doe bought a long gun (legal in CA) in CA in the 1980s. Joe gave that rifle to his son, John, at that time. No paperwork was done.

2) But John let Joe keep the gun in Joe's possession.

3) 30 years later when Joe dies, John does not take back the rifle, but asks his brother Jack, who lives in NV, to hold on to it, and Jack takes it back to NV.

Two years later, John wants his rifle back.

4) The rifle has technically been John's since the 1980s. True? Is it legally still John's rifle?

Is there a legal way for John to take back possession of his rifle?

5) If so, can Jack just ship the rifle to John?

6) Does Jack have to ship it to a CA FFL?

7) What if John drives to NV to pick up his rifle? Would that be legal?

Thanks for your insights!

3) "Jack takes it back to NV" was an illegal interstate transfer. Should have gone through a NV FFL.

4) Probably not true

5) No

6) that would be the legal way to do a NV --> CA transfer

7) No, not legal.

Please remember, as clearly explained by Fiddletown in another post this morning, Federal gun laws are really concerned with possession.

[Kate]

Thanks, Librarian!!!

[FireCloud9]

It was my understanding that as a CA resident, I could NOT go to a different state and buy a G43 (LEO only in CA) or Walther PPS (not on roster) and have it shipped directly to my CA FFL, wait the 10 days, go through whatever paperwork I need and take possession.

And yet, that's what it says in one of the early posts on this thread.

Am I just wrong about this? If so, can you point me to the CA code where it indicates that I could buy a handgun this way?

I'm near Tahoe, so if that's true, I can simply go to NV, buy the off roster handgun, have it shipped to CA FFL and pick it up.

I've always thought that it MUST BE on CA roster regardless of whether you buy the handgun IN California or another state. Is that not correct?

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by FireCloud9

It was my understanding that as a CA resident, I could NOT go to a different state and buy a G43 (LEO only in CA) or Walther PPS (not on roster) and have it shipped directly to my CA FFL, wait the 10 days, go through whatever paperwork I need and take possession.

And yet, that's what it says in one of the early posts on this thread.

Am I just wrong about this? If so, can you point me to the CA code where it indicates that I could buy a handgun this way?

I'm near Tahoe, so if that's true, I can simply go to NV, buy the off roster handgun, have it shipped to CA FFL and pick it up.

I've always thought that it MUST BE on CA roster regardless of whether you buy the handgun IN California or another state. Is that not correct?

It IS correct.

Nothing in this thread suggests one can get off-Roster handguns by buying out of state; one must still be exempt from the Roster (e.g. LEO), or use a transaction exempt from the Roster (e.g. intrafamilial) or buy a gun itself exempt from the Roster (e.g. C&R).

See also post 3 in this thread.

[FireCloud9]

Well, I guess I'll just let lease expire, move out of CA for a few months, establish residency elsewhere, buy the firearms (off CA roster) that I want and then move back in 6-9 months re-establishing CA residency.

Thank goodness there are 49 other States!

Now, to find out which of those 49 States have the shortest residency requirements, get an apartment, driver's license, voting registration and part-time minimum wage job should do it.

[KingChiron]

As far as I know, other states require you to be there for at least 6 months before acquiring residency. In Nevada, you have residency as soon as you claim you do AND Nevada doesn't have income tax :-)

https://www.leg.state.nv.us/Division.../Residency.pdf

[cvigue]

Originally Posted by Librarian

It IS correct.

Nothing in this thread suggests one can get off-Roster handguns by buying out of state; one must still be exempt from the Roster (e.g. LEO), or use a transaction exempt from the Roster (e.g. intrafamilial) or buy a gun itself exempt from the Roster (e.g. C&R).

See also post 3 in this thread.

Just so we're clear, isn't the word of law wrt the roster that a handgun not on the roster can't be sold in CA? In the case of say, someone buying a gun from Buds and having the transfer done in say, Martin Retting, is the sale not done in TN or KY or whatever it is out of State, or is the transfer legally considered the same as the sale?

It seems to me that the gun is the buyers property when the seller accepts payment in most cases of this sort of interaction.

Or is this still TBD in court?

(No I don't want to be the test case)

Originally Posted by KingChiron

As far as I know, other states require you to be there for at least 6 months before acquiring residency. In Nevada, you have residency as soon as you claim you do AND Nevada doesn't have income tax :-)

https://www.leg.state.nv.us/Division.../Residency.pdf

I will def file that under "good to know" - thanks.

[Librarian]

Originally Posted by cvigue

Just so we're clear, isn't the word of law wrt the roster that a handgun not on the roster can't be sold in CA?

No.

A dealer cannot sell/transfer an off-Roster handgun unless the buyer/transferee is exempt - essentially LEO. But it's perfectly legal for a FFL to sell off-Roster to LEOs.

A PPT, where one CA resident sells to another CA resident, is an exempt-from-the-Roster transaction. CA FFLs understand that (well, most of them).

You're free to make the off-Roster handgun purchase out of state - but FedLaw requires the handgun be transferred trough an FFL in your state of residence. Legal sale in, say, KY, but the CA FFL cannot transfer to you unless you are exempt.

And further Roster discussion belongs in its own thread. It'll close quickly - really nothing new to say. See the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/The_Safe_Handgun_List

[Audredger]

All this is making my head hurt but, if I understand it, I should be good if:

1. I live most of the time in California but, I live part of the time in WA and have a WA ID card. Also, have a WA CCW permit. If when in WA I purchase an off-roster gun, can I return to CA with that gun and register it?

2. If while visiting my mother in WA she gives me a off-roster gun, can I return to CA and register it?

I believe the answer to both should be yes, please confirm with your opinion.

[Nick1236]

Librarian,

I have a question that I don't believe has been answered.

Can one go to a class in another state on building your own firearm for personal use, say a 1911, complete the class and bring the newly built firearm back to California?

Thanks for any clarification.

[Quiet]

Originally Posted by Nick1236

Librarian,

I have a question that I don't believe has been answered.

Can one go to a class in another state on building your own firearm for personal use, say a 1911, complete the class and bring the newly built firearm back to California?

Thanks for any clarification.

It's complicated and was answered in this thread.

Short answer:
Violates Federal laws, unless multiple FFLs are involved.

In addition...
The firearm needs to be CA legal and, if the firearm is a handgun, it needs to be on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale or be exempt from it.

[Quiet]

Originally Posted by Audredger

All this is making my head hurt but, if I understand it, I should be good if:

1. I live most of the time in California but, I live part of the time in WA and have a WA ID card. Also, have a WA CCW permit. If when in WA I purchase an off-roster gun, can I return to CA with that gun and register it?

2. If while visiting my mother in WA she gives me a off-roster gun, can I return to CA and register it?

I believe the answer to both should be yes, please confirm with your opinion.

Answer to both is No.

As a dual resident of CA & WA, you can legally acquire an off-Roster handgun in WA but you can not legally bring it to CA.

Starting 01-01-2015, a firearm acquired out-of-state by a CA resident or by a dual resident of CA needs to be transferred through a CA FFL dealer in order to be legally brought into CA. [PC 27585(a)] Currently, there are no exemptions that will allow an off-Roster non-exempt handgun to be transferred in compliance with this.
Failure to comply equates to one misdemeanor per long gun and one felony per handgun. [PC 27590(a)&(c)(7)]



Penal Code 27585
(a) Commencing January 1, 2015, a resident of this state shall not import into this state, bring into this state, or transport into this state, any firearm that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained on or after January 1, 2015, from outside of this state unless he or she first has that firearm delivered to a dealer in this state for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 27540 and Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.

Penal Code 27590
(a) Except as provided in subdivision (b), (c), or (e), a violation of this article is a misdemeanor.
(c) If any of the following circumstances apply, a violation of this article shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
(7) A violation of Section 27585 involving a handgun.

[RickD427]

Originally Posted by Quiet

Answer to both is No.

As a dual resident of CA & WA, you can legally acquire an off-Roster handgun in WA but you can not legally bring it to CA.

Starting 01-01-2015, a firearm acquired out-of-state by a CA resident or by a dual resident of CA needs to be transferred through a CA FFL dealer in order to be legally brought into CA. [PC 27585(a)] Currently, there are no exemptions that will allow an off-Roster non-exempt handgun to be transferred in compliance with this.
Failure to comply equates to one misdemeanor per long gun and one felony per handgun. [PC 27590(a)&(c)(7)]



Penal Code 27585
(a) Commencing January 1, 2015, a resident of this state shall not import into this state, bring into this state, or transport into this state, any firearm that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained on or after January 1, 2015, from outside of this state unless he or she first has that firearm delivered to a dealer in this state for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 27540 and Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.

Penal Code 27590
(a) Except as provided in subdivision (b), (c), or (e), a violation of this article is a misdemeanor.
(c) If any of the following circumstances apply, a violation of this article shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
(7) A violation of Section 27585 involving a handgun.

Quiet,

I'll admit that Penal Code section 27585 is more than a little bit confusing, but I'm not so sure that it prohibits a California FFL from transferring an off-roster handgun to a dual resident.

You've very correctly cited the applicable law. If the OP is a "dual-resident" then he is clearly bound by the provisions of PC 27585 and must deliver the handgun to a California FFL (before bringing it into the state) for transfer. The transfer must comply with Penal Code section 27540 and Articles 1 and 2 of Division 6, Title 4, Part 6 of Penal Code (or in simpler terms Penal Code sections 27540 and 26700-26915).

You are also correct that there is no exemption within those Penal Code sections that would permit the transfer of an off-roster handgun, but it's also really important to note that there is no prohibition contained in those Penal Sections that prohibits the transfer of an off-roster handgun.

The prohibition on an FFL selling an off-roster handgun is contained in Penal Code section 32000. Section 32000 is not within the range of Penal Code sections that are embraced by PC 27585.

PC 32000 prohibits an FFL (along with anyone else) from the following:

"manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends any unsafe handgun..."

Interestingly, PC 32000 does not prohibit the "transfer" of an unsafe handgun.

Has anyone received any guidance from DOJ on the application of PC 27585 to off-roster handguns?

[Quiet]

Originally Posted by RickD427

Has anyone received any guidance from DOJ on the application of PC 27585 to off-roster handguns?

Last I heard, the CA DROS system won't allow it.

So, it could be an underground regulation or an oversight on CA DOJ's part.

In any case, bottom line, it's currently a no-go.

[fiddletown]

// Copied from another thread - this looks at the law from the 'other side', leaving CA guns
// with a person in another state. It's still the same law.
//
// Librarian
//

Someone in another State having possession of "your" gun is highly problematic under federal law.

The federal laws relating to the transfer of a gun from a resident of one State to a resident of another (i. e., the Gun Control Act of 1968 or GCA68) are about physical possession, not ownership. GCA68 was Congress' responding to enormous public pressure after the assassinations by gunfire of three wildly popular public figures -- JFK, RFK and MLK. The law was intended to regulate and control the interstate transfer of firearms. It was structured so that to the extent reasonably possible any transfer of possession of a gun from a resident of one State to a resident of another would have to go through an FFL.

And in the context of the concerns intended to be addressed by Congress through GCA68, it's possession and not ownership that matters. Someone who has a gun in his possession can use it, whether or not he has legal title to it.

Letting someone have possession of your gun in that person's State of residence will be considered a transfer. It certainly is under federal law, and would also most likely be also considered a transfer under state laws. That's just what "transfer" means.

1. In general, any transfer of a firearm from a resident of one State to a resident of another must go through an FFL who will follow all usual formalities (e. g., completion of the 4473). There are a few limited, narrow, specific exceptions: if you have an appropriate federal firearms license; inheritance by will or intestate succession; or a loan (subject to a number of limitations which will be discussed in more detail below).
   
   
2. The applicable federal statutes are: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922 (b)(3). The full texts of those statutes may be found here.
   
   
3. The federal laws I've cited are about possession, not necessarily ownership.
   
   
   1. Possession means:

      1 a : the act of having or taking into control...

   2. Transfer is about possession, not ownership.
      
      Some definitions of "transfer" (emphasis added):
      
      
      • http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/transfer:

        ...Transfer encompasses the sale and every other method, direct or indirect, of (1) disposing of property or an interest therein or possession thereof;...

      • http://www.thefreedictionary.com/transferred:

        2. Law To make over the possession or legal title of; convey.

      • http://law.yourdictionary.com/transfer:

        Any and every method of removing something from one person or place to another; specifically, the handing over of possession or control of assets or title. ...

      
      
   3. Let's look at the statutes:
      
      
      1. 18 USC 922(a)(3), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:

         (a) It shall be unlawful—
         ...
         
         (3) for any person, ... to transport into or receive in the State where he resides ...any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State,...

      2. And 18 USC 922(a)(5), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:

         (a) It shall be unlawful—
         ...
         
         (5) for any person ... to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person ...who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in ... the State in which the transferor resides..;

      
      
   4. Note carefully the words of those statutes. Words, like "transport", "receive", "obtained", "transfer", "give", "transport", and "deliver" do not necessarily imply ownership and include possession. They will be read and applied by a court according to their ordinary meanings. See Perrin v. United States, 444 U.S. 37 (United States Supreme Court, 1979), at 42:

      ...A fundamental canon of statutory construction is that, unless otherwise defined, words will be interpreted as taking their ordinary, contemporary, common meaning...

   
   
4. With regard to loans under GCA68, let's look at the applicable statutes again:
   
   
   1. 18 USC 922(a)(3), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:

      (a) It shall be unlawful—
      ...
      
      (3) for any person, ... to transport into or receive in the State where he resides ...any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State,...

   2. And 18 USC 922(a)(5), which provides in pertinent part (emphasis added) as follows:

      (a) It shall be unlawful—
      ...
      
      (5) for any person ... to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person ...who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in ... the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
      

      (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest ..., and
      
      (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

      ..

   3. So under federal law a resident of one State may loan a gun to a resident of another State, but only temporarily and only for a lawful sporting purpose.
      
      
      1. Temporary means:

         
         : continuing for a limited amount of time : not permanent
         
         : intended to be used for a limited amount of time

      2. Sporting means (in this context):

         ...of, relating to, used, or suitable for sport...

      3. Purpose means (in this context):

         : the reason why something is done or used : the aim or intention of something

      
      
   4. So a court is likely to look at the "temporary loan for a lawful sporting purpose" exception to the prohibition on interstate transfers to apply when a gun is loaned so that the person it's been loaned to can engage in a specific sporting activity (i. e., a hunt, a competition, etc.) of limited duration. "Temporary" would refer to the duration of that activity. Such an interpretation would be consistent with the common meanings of the words used in the statutes and the underlying purpose (controlling interstate transfers of firearms) of GCA68.
      
      
   5. So you may go to another State where (under 18 USC 922(a)(5)), a friend may loan you a gun to, for example, go target shooting together, or an outfitter may rent you a gun for a guided hunt. But since there is no applicable "loan" exception in 18 USC 922(a)(3), a loan of a firearm may not cross state lines to the borrower's State of residence.
   
   
5. Can't you store your gun with someone in another State?
   
   
   1. Leaving a gun with someone in another State clearly raises interstate transfer problems when that person has access to the gun.
      
      
   2. One possible way to avoid the problem would be to secure the gun or guns in a locked case or similar container to which only you have the key or combination.
      
      
   3. That might avoid the transfer problem inherent in having someone store your guns, ATF has advised here that one may ship a firearm to himself in care of another person in another State.
      
      Specifically ATF has said (emphasis added):

      6. May I lawfully ship a firearm to myself in a different State?
      

      Any person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in the care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner “in the care of” the out-of-State resident. Upon reaching its destination, persons other than the owner must not open the package or take possession of the firearm.

   
   
6. Note that violations of federal law regarding interstate transfers are punishable by up to five years in federal prison and/or a fine; and since the crime is a felony one will lose his gun rights for the rest of his life.

[jks67ss396]

Sorry if this has been covered before:

Can I, as a CA resident, in the process of applying for CR/COE permits, purchase a 50 yo Garand rifle out of state and keep it out of state at my folks house until such time that my CR/COE is valid and then transfer back to me in CA and register it?

thanks

[fiddletown]

Originally Posted by jks67ss396

....Can I, as a CA resident, in the process of applying for CR/COE permits, purchase a 50 yo Garand rifle out of state and keep it out of state at my folks house until such time that my CR/COE is valid and then transfer back to me in CA and register it?....

Until you actually get your 03 FFL and your COE you're no different from anyone else. Having applied is irrelevant.

We've had multiple threads on both interstate transfers and storing guns with someone in another State. Everything discussed in those threads continues to apply to you, just like everyone else, until your 03 FFL and COE are issued to you.

[cvigue]

Originally Posted by fiddletown

Until you actually get your 03 FFL and your COE you're no different from anyone else. Having applied is irrelevant.

We've had multiple threads on both interstate transfers and storing guns with someone in another State. Everything discussed in those threads continues to apply to you, just like everyone else, until your 03 FFL and COE are issued to you.

My understanding might be wrong, but isn't it legal to buy a gun as a gift for someone else as long as they are the 4473 recipient of record?

IOW, does it matter who pays?

[fiddletown]

Originally Posted by cvigue

My understanding might be wrong, but isn't it legal to buy a gun as a gift for someone else as long as they are the 4473 recipient of record?

IOW, does it matter who pays?

How is jks67ss396 buying a gift for anyone?

He wants the rifle for himself. If he provides the money and the family member completes the 4473 for the sole purpose of temporarily taking custody of the rifle until be can transfer it to jks67ss396, the family member is not the actual transferee. He is obtaining the rifle on behalf of jks67ss396, as jks67ss396's agent; and it would thus be an illegal straw purchase.

[jks67ss396]

Ok, so that seems to conflict with what Quiet posted on 2/15/15 in this thread...He response below seems like i could keep the gun (which is legal to own in CA) in the other state without issue and when i want to transfer back to CA, I would use my then (months from now) permitted CR/COE to transfer without the 3rd party FFL. PC27585 doesnt seem to say anything contrary.

Is that correct?

Quiets response:

"Therefore...
If the decision is upheld and goes into effect, as a CA resident, any firearm acquired in another State needs to be done in a method that complies with CA laws and the State laws of the FFL dealer.

Current CA laws [PC 27585], requires any firearm acquired by a CA resident in another State to be transferred to them through a CA FFL dealer in order to be legally imported into CA.

So, unless CA laws change, a CA resident may be able to acquire a firearm from a FFL dealer in another State but they will need to keep that firearm in that other State and never bring it to CA, unless it is transferred through a CA FFL dealer."

[fiddletown]

Originally Posted by jks67ss396

Ok, so that seems to conflict with what Quiet posted on 2/15/15 in this thread...He response below seems like i could keep the gun (which is legal to own in CA) in the other state without issue and when i want to transfer back to CA, I would use my then (months from now) permitted CR/COE to transfer without the 3rd party FFL. ....

No.

1. You get tied up in the Gun Control Act of 1968 by leaving the rifle with the resident of another State. See post 62 in this thread.
   
   
2. Also, since you are a resident of California, if you want to buy a rifle through an FFL in another State (as required by the Gun Control Act) the FFL to lawfully do the transfer under federal law (18 USC 922(b)(3)) must do the transfer in a way that complies with California law. That would require that the out-of-State FFL submit a DROS. But he can't do that as a non-California dealer.
   
   
3. Furthermore, Quiet's 15 February 2015 post assumes that the Fifth Circuit's panel's decision in Mance v. Holder (soon to be Mance v. Sessions) is upheld en banc. But as far as I know there's been no decision so far.

[cvigue]

Originally Posted by fiddletown

How is jks67ss396 buying a gift for anyone?

He wants the rifle for himself. If he provides the money and the family member completes the 4473 for the sole purpose of temporarily taking custody of the rifle until be can transfer it to jks67ss396, the family member is not the actual transferee. He is obtaining the rifle on behalf of jks67ss396, as jks67ss396's agent; and it would thus be an illegal straw purchase.

Right.

I was not asking on his behalf specifically. I'm considering a thank-you gift to my brother with no intent to go and get the firearm later. It was my belief that this is completely legal as long as all I supply is the money and he is the actual owner and is the 4473 transferee.

Sort of like when my Dad gave me a deer rifle all those years ago. I know, it's a different world now.

[Chewy65]

The safer way to do that, cvigue, is to give your brother cash or a gift certificate in the amount of the firearm and let your brother buy it. If you buy it, you have to put your name down as the buyer. Then, when you give it to your brother, you have a second transfer by FFL.

[thomas_y3]

Fellaz, i'm still new to this forum so pls bear with me but i live in CA and AZ (secondary home). Can i buy a "CA compliant" bolt rifle in AZ and bring it into CA? I have CA DL as well as AZ DL. I see most of the posts are related to handguns. Thx fellaz!

[LowThudd]

No. As stated in the posts by Quiet further up on this page, Federal law does not recognize dual residency for a firearm purchase.

[Quiet]

Originally Posted by thomas_y3

Fellaz, i'm still new to this forum so pls bear with me but i live in CA and AZ (secondary home). Can i buy a "CA compliant" bolt rifle in AZ and bring it into CA? I have CA DL as well as AZ DL. I see most of the posts are related to handguns. Thx fellaz!

Only if the firearm is shipped to a CA FFL dealer, who then transfers (DROS/10 day wait) it to you. [PC 27585(a)]

You will have to pay shipping fees, FFL transfer fees, CA DROS fees, and a CA use tax.

Failure to utilize a CA FFL dealer to import the firearms you acquire in another State equates to a misdemeanor per long gun [PC 27590(a)] and a felony per handgun [PC 27590(c)(7)].



Penal Code 27585
(a) Commencing January 1, 2015, a resident of this state shall not import into this state, bring into this state, or transport into this state, any firearm that he or she purchased or otherwise obtained on or after January 1, 2015, from outside of this state unless he or she first has that firearm delivered to a dealer in this state for delivery to that resident pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 27540 and Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.

Penal Code 27590
(a) Except as provided in subdivision (b), (c), or (e), a violation of this article is a misdemeanor.
(c) If any of the following circumstances apply, a violation of this article shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
(7) A violation of Section 27585 involving a handgun.

[thomas_y3]

Truly appreciate the info!

[PSLguy]

Where you CAN buy a gun out of state is if you have residence in that state as defined by Federal Law. Catch is guns must never be brought to CA unless you do it through an FFL. From Quiet's post:

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. An alien who is legally in the United States shall be considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in the State and has resided in the State for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm. The following are examples that illustrate this definition:


Example 2.

A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

The example above applies to me. I live here in CA and have a home in another state. That state will issue a state ID (not drivers licenses) to people who own property and spend time there on weekends, summer, etc.

This would allow me to legally purchase firearms in that state, just not bring them here to California. This is fine with me as I maintain most of my collection out of state now. In a few years, my entire family, guns included are moving from CA.

[Quiet]

FYI.

As more and more States become REAL ID compliant. (currently, 35 are compliant and 15 are on their final extensions)

Federal laws/regulations prohibits a person from having more than one REAL ID compliant DL or ID card. [6 CFR 37.29]

As evident with CA DMV "Federal Limits apply" DL/ID card and acquiring firearms from CA FFL dealers fiasco, having another States non-REAL ID compliant ID may no longer be valid for acquiring firearms from that States FFL dealer.



6 CFR 37.29
(a) An individual may hold only one REAL ID card. An individual cannot hold a REAL ID driver's license and a REAL ID identification card simultaneously. Nothing shall preclude an individual from holding a REAL ID card and a non-REAL ID card unless prohibited by his or her State.
(b) Prior to issuing a REAL ID driver's license,
(1) A State must check with all other States to determine if the applicant currently holds a driver's license or REAL ID identification card in another State.
(2) If the State receives confirmation that the individual holds a driver's license in another State, or possesses a REAL ID identification card in another State, the receiving State must take measures to confirm that the person has terminated or is terminating the driver's license or REAL ID identification card issued by the prior State pursuant to State law, regulation or procedure.
(c) Prior to issuing a REAL ID identification card,
(1) A State must check with all other States to determine if the applicant currently holds a REAL ID driver's license or identification card in another State.
(2) If the State receives confirmation that the individual holds a REAL ID card in another State the receiving State must take measures to confirm that the person has terminated or is terminating the REAL ID driver's license or identification card issued by the prior State pursuant to State law, regulation or procedure.

[ivnlobo]

One major question,

Can I Take a rifle to my brother in Arizona and gift it to him through an AZ FFL?
Or would I need to ship it via an FFL?

[Quiet]

Originally Posted by ivnlobo

One major question,

Can I Take a rifle to my brother in Arizona and gift it to him through an AZ FFL?
Or would I need to ship it via an FFL?

Federal laws requires the transfer be done through a FFL in the recipient's State of residence.

The method of how it is delivered is dependent upon the receiving FFL.

So, you need to contact the FFL doing the transfer and ask them, how they want it delivered to them.

[ivnlobo]

Originally Posted by Quiet

Federal laws requires the transfer be done through a FFL in the recipient's State of residence.

The method of how it is delivered is dependent upon the receiving FFL.

So, you need to contact the FFL doing the transfer and ask them, how they want it delivered to them.

Thanks sir, I do plan to transfer via an FFL in Arizona. I was unsure if I could transfer it out of my name into his being a CA resident

[Quiet]

Originally Posted by ivnlobo

Thanks sir, I do plan to transfer via an FFL in Arizona. I was unsure if I could transfer it out of my name into his being a CA resident

CA firearm registration system is a historical database that tracks the life of a firearm.

If you transfer the firearm outside of CA, then CA DOJ will not know about it.

You can voluntarily submit a Notice of No Longer In Possession (BOF 4546) to CA DOJ, in order to give them updated info.
^You will need the out-of-state FFL's info and the out-of-state transferee's info.

Note that all that the submission does is alter the firearm's record to show that you are now the previous owner and lists the out-of-state transferee as the current owner.