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  #921  
Old 05-09-2016, 1:29 PM
ChrisBrooklyn ChrisBrooklyn is offline
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FFL 03 mailed today, will update you guys as things happen..

i just printed from ATF website, hopefully no hiccups

update, CC charged on may 14,

livescan done today and coe app mailed.. will update again..

hope to be buying stuff from all you guys real soon!

update, got my FFL 03 today june 14, exactly one month from the date of charge.. hooray, now just waiting on my coe..

Last edited by ChrisBrooklyn; 06-14-2016 at 4:14 PM..
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  #922  
Old 06-03-2016, 2:19 PM
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I sent my FFL application on 5/25 and CA DOJ COE today.

Let's see what happens.

Credit card got dinged on 6/5!
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  #923  
Old 06-14-2016, 4:15 PM
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FFL app mailed 5/9
CC charge 5/14
FFL 03 arrived 6/14

exactly one month..
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  #924  
Old 06-14-2016, 4:20 PM
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@Archon - don't be shocked if the COE takes a while. The DOJ seems pretty swamped. My COE renewal took 5-6 weeks and those are usually faster than new applications.
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  #925  
Old 06-14-2016, 7:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eljay View Post
@Archon - don't be shocked if the COE takes a while. The DOJ seems pretty swamped. My COE renewal took 5-6 weeks and those are usually faster than new applications.
i called and they said they are taking about 6 weeks..
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  #926  
Old 06-14-2016, 9:01 PM
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I'm in no rush. I need to save some $$ before buying anymore guns. Hopefully the right 1911 will come up
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  #927  
Old 06-25-2016, 4:51 AM
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I'm a dummy. Transposed a couple of digits in my zip code on the application so they sent it back for a correction. Delayed.
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  #928  
Old 07-01-2016, 2:46 PM
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Hello all and I wanted to say thanks for all the information that has been shared here. This will be my first post here and I have a couple of questions about the process. Any insight / help would greatly appreciated.

I am looking into getting a C&R FFL and I just wanted to double check a couple of things first with respect to the county I would be applying from:

Has anyone had any issues applying in San Mateo County? As far as I can tell there isn't any issue and I would be using this FFL for collector purposes only.

And secondly about the forms themselves:

1) I need to fill out the ATF-F 5310.16 form and submit a copy of the ATF and a duplicate copy to my local police chef (this copy should have the credit card information redacted). For a single person application section #9 should have a single entry and match that of sections #1 - 6? Section #10 should be left blank for a native born US citizen?

2) I would need to fill out form BCIA 8016 contained within the Certificate of Eligibility Application. I would need to check the DOJ and FBI boxes. Upon submission I would receive an ATI number.

3) I would need to fill out the Certificate of Eligibility Application and include the ATI number I received above. For business type would I choose "Collector"?

4) Wait...wait...wait some more.

Thanks again.
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  #929  
Old 07-01-2016, 9:14 PM
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That all sounds correct.
This is not a county issued license like CCW... it is from BATFE for the 03FFL and the DOJ for the COE. Your county has no choice in the matter.
The copy of the application to the CLEO is simply an FYI, and the cover letter that I send with mine states that no action is required or requested:

Attached Images
File Type: jpg 03coverletter.jpg (50.7 KB, 455 views)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #930  
Old 07-01-2016, 9:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
That all sounds correct.
This is not a county issued license like CCW... it is from BATFE for the 03FFL and the DOJ for the COE. Your county has no choice in the matter.
The copy of the application to the CLEO is simply an FYI, and the cover letter that I send with mine states that no action is required or requested:

Thanks for that example letter. Is it advisable to send via tracked USPS mail or is that over kill?

As for the county part that was also about being curious about any ordinances / laws for the county that would expressly prohibit it. Or places to check to make sure it doesn't. I want to double check myself so as not to get into any trouble. Thanks.
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  #931  
Old 07-01-2016, 9:51 PM
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Thanks for that example letter. Is it advisable to send via tracked USPS mail or is that over kill?
Overkill.

BATFE requires that you "send" a copy to him.
It does not require that he actually confirm receipt.

Quote:
As for the county part that was also about being curious about any ordinances / laws for the county that would expressly prohibit it. Or places to check to make sure it doesn't. I want to double check myself so as not to get into any trouble. Thanks.
None for collecting activities as far as the license. You are not conducting business.

DO locate the local BATFE branch office. IF you are called in for an audit of your bound book, 03FFL does not surrender your 4A/5A rights. You do not have to allow access to your residence by LE without a warrant.
You MAY legally schedule your bound book audit to take place at the field office. You take your bound book and listed guns to the office and TCOB at that point.

There may be county ordinances related to storage of firearms and ammo, you would need to comply with those just as you do now.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #932  
Old 07-01-2016, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Overkill.

BATFE requires that you "send" a copy to him.
It does not require that he actually confirm receipt.


None for collecting activities as far as the license. You are not conducting business.

DO locate the local BATFE branch office. IF you are called in for an audit of your bound book, 03FFL does not surrender your 4A/5A rights. You do not have to allow access to your residence by LE without a warrant.
You MAY legally schedule your bound book audit to take place at the field office. You take your bound book and listed guns to the office and TCOB at that point.

There may be county ordinances related to storage of firearms and ammo, you would need to comply with those just as you do now.
Thanks of the information and about the track and especially for the audit.

I am going to look up the local BATFE branch office and see where that is with respect to me. So the BATFE would tell me they are going to audit me and I would say thats cool and I want to set that up at your office? I assume that if I haven't bought or sold anything the audit would be really quick? Sorry for being a n00b but TCOB?
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  #933  
Old 07-01-2016, 11:25 PM
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I have not been contacted for an audit, so I don't know the exact procedure.
SOME have received surprise knocks on the door by (newer?) agents who were unaware of the difference between an 03 and the others (who are subject to no-notice inspections).

Yes, if you have nothing in your bound book, I would inform them of that when you are contacted to see if they even wish to proceed.

I got the 03/COE for the AB962 exemption before the ammo ban was thrown out.
I kept them both current after 962 was tossed, and was glad, because in 2013 while visiting my parents in Texas, mom gave me Grandpa's Colt 1903 pistol. Way cool, and fortunately I had the proper licenses to prevent us both from becoming felons.

That is to this day the only entry in my bound book.

Here are a couple of sample pages. I printed mine out on 11x17 and got an 11x17 3-ring binder from Staples online.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf boundbookpage.pdf (35.9 KB, 66 views)
File Type: pdf CR Book Legal.pdf (9.8 KB, 51 views)
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #934  
Old 07-02-2016, 5:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR 762 View Post
I am going to look up the local BATFE branch office and see where that is with respect to me. So the BATFE would tell me they are going to audit me and I would say thats cool and I want to set that up at your office? I assume that if I haven't bought or sold anything the audit would be really quick? Sorry for being a n00b but TCOB?
Audits are very rare but from prior posts thats how it's supposed to go. They contact you, you specify home or office. I've heard of some people basically just lining up anything in the book in their living room rather than bring 100 rifles to their local ATF office! If it's just a couple of guns and the office isn't super far I'd just as soon do it there. It's up to you.

Some people let their license expire after three years then reapply later for a new license and dispose of the book in-between just so they're not on the hook for a paperwork mistake they made three licenses ago.

As mentioned sometimes somebody from the ATF will get confused about what a FFL03 license even is and when you first get the license maybe they'll try to inspect your facility or whatever. Just tell them it's a collectors license, you're not a dealer, they should contact their supervisor. But literally I've heard of that happening once or twice, ever.
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  #935  
Old 07-02-2016, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
I have not been contacted for an audit, so I don't know the exact procedure.
SOME have received surprise knocks on the door by (newer?) agents who were unaware of the difference between an 03 and the others (who are subject to no-notice inspections).

Yes, if you have nothing in your bound book, I would inform them of that when you are contacted to see if they even wish to proceed.

I got the 03/COE for the AB962 exemption before the ammo ban was thrown out.
I kept them both current after 962 was tossed, and was glad, because in 2013 while visiting my parents in Texas, mom gave me Grandpa's Colt 1903 pistol. Way cool, and fortunately I had the proper licenses to prevent us both from becoming felons.

That is to this day the only entry in my bound book.

Here are a couple of sample pages. I printed mine out on 11x17 and got an 11x17 3-ring binder from Staples online.
I too am interested in getting one for because of SB1235 (ammo ban 2.0) though as you pointed out being ready for the unexpected is never a bad thing. At the same time I just wanted to make sure I wasn't trading one bureaucratic nightmare for another if you will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eljay View Post
Audits are very rare but from prior posts thats how it's supposed to go. They contact you, you specify home or office. I've heard of some people basically just lining up anything in the book in their living room rather than bring 100 rifles to their local ATF office! If it's just a couple of guns and the office isn't super far I'd just as soon do it there. It's up to you.

Some people let their license expire after three years then reapply later for a new license and dispose of the book in-between just so they're not on the hook for a paperwork mistake they made three licenses ago.

As mentioned sometimes somebody from the ATF will get confused about what a FFL03 license even is and when you first get the license maybe they'll try to inspect your facility or whatever. Just tell them it's a collectors license, you're not a dealer, they should contact their supervisor. But literally I've heard of that happening once or twice, ever.
Thanks for the tip about doing a new license vs the renewal!

If I could only be so lucky as to have 100 in my collection....
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  #936  
Old 07-18-2016, 10:10 PM
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Received my 03 today

Now I just need the Coe to arrive.
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  #937  
Old 08-19-2016, 7:04 AM
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Coe came!!!! Only 7 weeks after I sent it in
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  #938  
Old 08-31-2016, 6:06 AM
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Are you guys printing the pdf forms double sided or single? I send my livescan with the COE only? Or do I even send it? Do they have it on file electronically? Also, is there a specific livescan for this statewide or county? Do I have to go to CHP or county sheriff? I know my wife being a sub teacher can either get city specific livescans or just get one for the whole county through the sheriff's office. After some research I semi know the procedure. Just making positive i'm not missing anything.

Last edited by SquidBilly; 08-31-2016 at 6:20 AM..
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  #939  
Old 08-31-2016, 6:09 AM
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Single sided. I livescanned at a UPS store and they transmit the information electronically. They also write the scan number on the application when they sign it.
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  #940  
Old 08-31-2016, 7:06 AM
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Thanks! What a wealth of information.
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  #941  
Old 09-10-2016, 8:27 AM
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Final Update!

Sent off all my paperwork 9/9/16
Card got dinged by ATF 9/13/16
03FFL in mailbox 9/26/16
COE in mailbox 10/27/16

Last edited by SquidBilly; 10-27-2016 at 5:59 PM..
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  #942  
Old 10-03-2016, 7:32 PM
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Excuse the double post
Is the 03 still worth it and are discounts on reloading supplies etc ... available


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  #943  
Old 10-03-2016, 7:52 PM
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Excuse the double post
Is the 03 still worth it and are discounts on reloading supplies etc ... available
Yes.

More worth it with the COE, but the 03 is cheap at $33 for 3 years.
COE will cost you $100 to apply and $22/year.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #944  
Old 10-04-2016, 7:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Yes.

More worth it with the COE, but the 03 is cheap at $33 for 3 years.
COE will cost you $100 to apply and $22/year.

Thanks

Any discounts on bullets or reloading supplies w 03?


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  #945  
Old 10-04-2016, 8:12 PM
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Thanks

Any discounts on bullets or reloading supplies w 03?
Vendors who offer discounts generally do a flat percentage on the entire order.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #946  
Old 10-18-2016, 10:13 AM
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So I already have a COE and thought may be I should get the C&R.
Is it good out of state, say I go to Oregon or Nevada.
Can I buy out of state in person or just ordering say from say an online vendor.
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  #947  
Old 10-18-2016, 6:00 PM
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So I already have a COE and thought may be I should get the C&R.
Is it good out of state, say I go to Oregon or Nevada.
Can I buy out of state in person or just ordering say from say an online vendor.
Currently anything shipped into California must go through an 01FFL.
This was one of the unfortunate changes in 2014.

However, we can still, with the 03+COE, purchase both long guns and handguns (C&R only) out of state and bring them home so long as we register them and pay the $19 freedom tax.

The 03/COE also provides an exemption from the upcoming ammo restrictions... provided you can find a vendor that recognizes the exemption.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #948  
Old 10-18-2016, 6:19 PM
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Has anyone applied as a partnership? Maybe their wives or adult children and pay the same fee ?


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  #949  
Old 10-18-2016, 8:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Currently anything shipped into California must go through an 01FFL.
This was one of the unfortunate changes in 2014.

However, we can still, with the 03+COE, purchase both long guns and handguns (C&R only) out of state and bring them home so long as we register them and pay the $19 freedom tax.

The 03/COE also provides an exemption from the upcoming ammo restrictions... provided you can find a vendor that recognizes the exemption.
So C&R can no longer purchase from say AIM or Gun Broker ?
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Old 10-18-2016, 8:58 PM
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Quote:
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So C&R can no longer purchase from say AIM or Gun Broker ?
Not under the new laws.

It's been debated but there was a pretty definitive posting of the PC a few days ago.

tldr version...

In-State purchase of C&R long gun may be done FTF or shipped to your home (licensed residence)
In-State purchase of C&R Handgun must be done through FFL. 10 day wait exemption applies, but DROS software does not allow it for PPT, only dealer transfer. Develop a good relationship with your dealer and MAYBE you can talk them into logging the PPT into their inventory, then back out to you as a dealer transfer. The exemption would then apply, but not the $35 limit (that's where the good relationship comes in )

Out of state purchase of C&R handgun or long gun may be done FTF, import and report/register immediately upon returning home.
Out of state purchase of C&R handgun or long gun by shipment must transfer through FFL, 10 day wait exemption applies.

C&R handguns are still exempt from the roster.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.

Last edited by Cokebottle; 10-18-2016 at 9:12 PM..
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  #951  
Old 10-19-2016, 2:15 PM
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0ne more question.
if the person you are buying from does not have c&r or coe, are you required to give them a copy of your c&r .
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  #952  
Old 10-19-2016, 4:36 PM
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0ne more question.
if the person you are buying from does not have c&r or coe, are you required to give them a copy of your c&r .
Nope.
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Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #953  
Old 10-22-2016, 7:43 AM
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Mailed FFL app 9/23
CC dinged 9/28
License in mail 10/21

I sent out the COE (after fingerprints) on 9/30 as of 10/21 No activity.

Update:
Received COE on 11/03

Last edited by Tysandiego; 11-03-2016 at 4:25 PM.. Reason: Update
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  #954  
Old 10-25-2016, 2:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
Not under the new laws.

It's been debated but there was a pretty definitive posting of the PC a few days ago.

tldr version...

In-State purchase of C&R long gun may be done FTF or shipped to your home (licensed residence)
In-State purchase of C&R Handgun must be done through FFL. 10 day wait exemption applies, but DROS software does not allow it for PPT, only dealer transfer. Develop a good relationship with your dealer and MAYBE you can talk them into logging the PPT into their inventory, then back out to you as a dealer transfer. The exemption would then apply, but not the $35 limit (that's where the good relationship comes in )

Out of state purchase of C&R handgun or long gun may be done FTF, import and report/register immediately upon returning home.
Out of state purchase of C&R handgun or long gun by shipment must transfer through FFL, 10 day wait exemption applies.

C&R handguns are still exempt from the roster.
To avoid confusion.

You are talking about 03's only, not 03+COE's?

Last edited by SquidBilly; 10-25-2016 at 3:01 PM..
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  #955  
Old 10-26-2016, 6:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SquidBilly View Post
To avoid confusion.

You are talking about 03's only, not 03+COE's?
For the most part, yes.
On purchasing out of state, I am not 100% certain (having both, even though I've read the status more than once in the last 6 years but I have not bothered to commit it to memory).
The 03 is sufficient to satisfy federal law, but I believe the COE is needed for California law.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.
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  #956  
Old 10-27-2016, 1:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
For the most part, yes.
On purchasing out of state, I am not 100% certain (having both, even though I've read the status more than once in the last 6 years but I have not bothered to commit it to memory).
The 03 is sufficient to satisfy federal law, but I believe the COE is needed for California law.

A COE is not needed, at this time, for an out of state purchase as long as the buyer has an 03 and is personally bringing the firearm across the state line. BOF Form 4100a would be used to report the purchase within 5 days, and there is no place for the COE on that form.

CA PC 27565 covers the out of state acquisition of a C&R firearm.

Quote:
27565.

(a) This section applies in the following circumstances:

(1) A person is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

(2) The licensed premises of that person are within this state.

(3) The licensed collector acquires, outside of this state, a handgun, and commencing January 1, 2014, any firearm.

(4) The licensed collector takes actual possession of that firearm outside of this state pursuant to the provisions of subsection (j) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code, as amended by Public Law 104-208, and transports the firearm into this state.

(5) The firearm is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.

(b) Within five days of transporting a firearm into this state under the circumstances described in subdivision (a), the licensed collector shall report the acquisition of that firearm to the department in a format prescribed by the department.
(Amended by Stats. 2011, Ch. 745, Sec. 28. Effective January 1, 2012.)
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  #957  
Old 10-27-2016, 5:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cokebottle View Post
For the most part, yes.
On purchasing out of state, I am not 100% certain (having both, even though I've read the status more than once in the last 6 years but I have not bothered to commit it to memory).
The 03 is sufficient to satisfy federal law, but I believe the COE is needed for California law.
Yes. With 03+CoE it's good to.go.

The only part of your other post that was incorrect was that long guns purchased out of state and shipped need to go through FFL01 and 10 day wait.

With 03+COE, all long guns can be shipped to your door.

Only handgun shipments have to go through FFL01.

All out of state handgun or long gun via FTF purchases need 03 only.
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  #958  
Old 10-27-2016, 7:06 PM
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Originally Posted by SquidBilly View Post
With 03+COE, all long guns can be shipped to your door.

Only handgun shipments have to go through FFL01.
This has been pretty hotly debated recently and PC was posted that satisfies me that it is no longer permitted effective 2014.
Trying to find it now but it's apparently not in the C&R subforum

In-state purchases are still legal to ship to your door.

It IS still legal per BATFE regulations.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd View Post
A just government will not be overthrown by force or violence because the people have no incentive to overthrow a just government. If a small minority of people attempt such an insurrection to grab power and enslave the people, the RKBA of the whole is our insurance against their success.

Last edited by Cokebottle; 10-27-2016 at 7:15 PM..
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  #959  
Old 10-31-2016, 4:22 AM
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AIM, J&G, Allan's and others will ship to 03+COE. Not that they're the harbinger of the law, but they will and I won't mind letting them.
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  #960  
Old 01-21-2017, 9:21 PM
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FFL 03 request out and back in under a month. Nov to Dec. Holding off on the COE as do not see the immediate need unless there is something i am missing as dealers like J&G only need signed copy of o3 and dl emailed or faed to them for purchase and direct delivery.
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