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  #1  
Old 12-12-2016, 7:26 PM
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Question Opinion Needed-Spanish 1916 Mauser Bolt Action 7x57

I saw J&G Sales had them for $179.95:

http://www.jgsales.com/spanish-1916-....-p-80642.html


It kind of intrigues me - you thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 12-12-2016, 7:29 PM
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I've had one in 7mm for quite a while now, it's a handy, accurate rifle.

The problems you hear about with some of the 7.62 versions of the 1916 haven't applied to my 7mm 1916.
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I am currently cleaning it and I noticed when I squeeze the snake this white paste like substance comes out. What the heck is this crap?
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Old 12-12-2016, 7:40 PM
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I saw a few of them at the store... Pretty beat... But the 7mm is a great round...If you want a shooter it would be a cheap way to go.. Not much collector value due to condition, and the Spanish rifles don't have any much value.

It's a rifle for $180... Pretty cheap for steel and wood!!!
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Old 12-12-2016, 8:06 PM
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If there 'good' rating is the NRA 'good' rating then expect the rifles to be good and worn.

GOOD: In safe working condition, minor wear on working surfaces, no broken parts, no corrosion or pitting that will interfere with proper functioning.
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Old 12-12-2016, 8:09 PM
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So how high do those shoot at 100 yards? Closest sight setting is 300, right?

Those were used in the Spanish Civil War, right?
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Old 12-12-2016, 9:34 PM
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I say go for it at a price of $180. It may not be in perfect condition but I bet it makes up for it with character. And at under $200 it's not a major sacrifice if it turns out bad. I bet it's a fine rifle though, just a bit rough around the edges.
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Old 12-12-2016, 9:51 PM
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In the condition listed they are going to be beaters for sure...but chances are they are going to be shooters as well. If I had interest in expanding my ammunition collection to include 7mm I'd jump all over this deal.
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Old 12-12-2016, 10:59 PM
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The Spanish Mausers that I know of use a Mauser type action that closes on cocking. Much like the Swedish Mausers and British 303s. They are great actions, just not as desirable as the k98 Mauser action.

7X57 ammo is as expensive as it is rare.
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Old 12-13-2016, 6:12 AM
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Originally Posted by hambam105 View Post
The Spanish Mausers that I know of use a Mauser type action that closes on cocking. Much like the Swedish Mausers and British 303s. They are great actions, just not as desirable as the k98 Mauser action.

7X57 ammo is as expensive as it is rare.
A quick search on google found some for under $20 a box. If you reload it's not a big deal. It is not as cheap as .308 in bulk but that's why it's a hobby.
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Old 12-13-2016, 6:16 AM
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I got one of these in 7.62x51 rated in the same condition. They are definitely beater rifles. You get what you pay for, which isn't necessarily a bad thing so long as you don't have very high expectations. I was pleased when the rifle that showed up looked better than what they had pictured on the web site.
Buy it, shoot it, see if you like it If you don't like it, you can always sell it for around what you got it for, maybe a little less. Either way, you won't be breaking the bank.
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Old 12-13-2016, 6:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hambam105 View Post
The Spanish Mausers that I know of use a Mauser type action that closes on cocking. Much like the Swedish Mausers and British 303s. They are great actions, just not as desirable as the k98 Mauser action.
Yeah, it is a 1893 type action, small ring, cock on close, and is not as strong, and doesn't handle gas as well as the 1898.
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Old 12-13-2016, 11:33 PM
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7X57 ammo is akin to:

303 Brit
6.5X55
7.7 Jap
765 Argentine

Great cartridges, of yesteryear. Ammo is available in limited selection. And when ammo costs more that GI 7.62 FMJs then I call that expensive.
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Old 12-13-2016, 11:59 PM
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I had an 1895 Chilean short rifle in 7x57. Nice shooter, but I'm just not much of a C&R guy unless it is a Garand.
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Old 12-14-2016, 12:59 PM
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As the others have noted, these rifles are likely to be a bit one the... rough side. They should function, and send the bullets in generally the right direction. Mostly. But don't expect superb accuracy from them. The 7x57 is a very good round. Ammo is uncommon, but not scarce. If you reload, it is a piece of cake. These all appear to be later models, with the Tangent sight instead of the Lange Vizier (roller coaster) sight, which makes them a bit less collectible.

If you want a 7x57 Mauser, these are always a good way to get into them for not a lot of money. The action is strong enough for the round. And it will likely be a shooter, not a safe queen, so no reason not to take it shooting. The price isn't horrible.

-Mb
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Old 12-14-2016, 2:26 PM
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Originally Posted by triplestack3 View Post
I got one of these in 7.62x51 rated in the same condition. They are definitely beater rifles. You get what you pay for, which isn't necessarily a bad thing so long as you don't have very high expectations. I was pleased when the rifle that showed up looked better than what they had pictured on the web site.
Buy it, shoot it, see if you like it If you don't like it, you can always sell it for around what you got it for, maybe a little less. Either way, you won't be breaking the bank.
Be careful with shooting full power 7.62 NATO out of a small ring Mauser like the 1893 Mauser rifles - there are reports of them exploding, like the FR-7 carbines which were similarly converted. They made a specific 7.62 CETME for this purpose which has much less internal pressure but the same external dimensions as 7.62 NATO.

Large ring Mausers like the FR-8 are OK though.
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Old 12-14-2016, 9:35 PM
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Mine came into the gun shop today. Overall it looks very good considering the condition described. It is very dirty and in need of a good bath. The wood shows a few dings but is in very good shape except for an interesting repair behind the action. No obvious pitting on the metal and dose show some lite surface rust. The bore is dark but has strong rifling's. No broken parts that I could tell and it is missing the cleaning rod. Has an what seems to me to be an unusual three digit serial number with a prefix letter. No marking apparent on it except for the Serial numbers. It should clean up very well. Here are some pictures.










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Old 12-14-2016, 9:35 PM
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Old 12-22-2016, 4:58 PM
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Anyone else get one of these?
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Old 12-22-2016, 5:19 PM
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I got one in 7.62x51... looked about the same as yours when it showed up, but yours has more blue left on it.
I took it apart and hit the wood with a steamer. That lifted some of the little dings out of the stock, then I hit the wood with some bronze wool and tung oil. It cleaned up pretty nicely actually. Not sure if I'll ever shoot it, but whatever.
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Old 12-22-2016, 5:34 PM
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It will have a serial number under the handguard IIRC.
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Old 02-13-2017, 3:10 PM
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Finally caved and ordered one of these (in 7mm), and it showed up today. Pretty filthy, but bore looks pretty good. Seems to be complete (including sling and cleaning rod), with the exception of missing the front sling swivel, which was replaced with a twisted piece of wire.

I'll post some photos later.
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Old 02-13-2017, 3:41 PM
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I saw some with roller coaster sights. Were these the earlier made german ones made for Spain?
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Old 02-14-2017, 1:45 PM
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I saw some with roller coaster sights. Were these the earlier made german ones made for Spain?
No. By the time they made the M1916, they were all being made under license in Spain. The Lange-Visier sight was only made on the earlier production models. I believe it was dropped in favor of the more common, lower cost tangent sight some time in the 1920s.

If the rifle in question lacks any markings other than the serial number it could mean any one of several things. The first, and most likely is that it was made during the Spanish Civil War, which was long, brutal and ugly. Guns were cranked out as fast as possible by whichever side controlled the factory at any given point. Markings took time and effort that neither side felt like wasting. The second possibility is that it was made by one of the smaller shops using parts that were "liberated" from the factory to arm whichever faction did the liberating. The third, but much more uncommon possibility is that it was made elsewhere in Europe to M1916 specs, and sent in to support one of the factions covertly. I have only heard rumors and second/third-hand stories about this, and I don't have any documentation for it. However, there were several companies in Europe at that time that were buying up anything that could shoot, and selling to one side or the other. Sometimes these guns were scrubbed, sometimes they weren't. Sometimes they were converted to 7x57 or 8x57 mauser, and sometimes they weren't. Which leads to the forth possibility, that it was a Spanish-made gun that was exported, but then scrubbed and returned to Spain to arm somebody.

One other note about many Spanish Mausers. One of the reasons most of the earlier production rifles have mis-matched bolts is because the Spanish usually stored the rifles and bolts separately in the arsenals. When several of these arsenals fell early in the war, the mobs that overran them didn't know about matching serial numbers. Most of them were not all that familiar with firearms to begin with. So they simply slapped bolts into rifles with no particular attention paid to the numbers on either. In their defense, they were usually under a great deal of pressure, and needed the firearms to fight the other side very quickly. But that is why you rarely see the earlier rifles with matching numbers.

-Mb
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Old 02-14-2017, 4:00 PM
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OK, here it is, haven't cleaned or done anything to it yet, it is filthy:










Crown looks OK, bore looks good as well.



High tech front swivel:



Still, for $179 I can't complain at all. Will post more photos after I clean it up.
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Old 02-14-2017, 4:37 PM
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Also, what bayonets fit these?

Looking here, it looks like the 1913 is the correct one, but will any Spanish (pre K98 pattern) bayonet fit?

http://worldbayonets.com/Bayonet_Ide...n/spain_2.html

Thanks,
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Old 02-14-2017, 6:32 PM
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I've never tried anything other than a 1913 on mine. I found my bayonet for it at the big reno show with a decent scabbard for $40.

That one I think will clean up nice, if it shoots as well as my old 7x57 beater does you'll be happy.
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I am currently cleaning it and I noticed when I squeeze the snake this white paste like substance comes out. What the heck is this crap?
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Don't D&T a virgin milsurp rifle. You'll burn in collector hell.
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Old 02-14-2017, 8:24 PM
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Emcon that rifle is about as filthy as I've seen. It looks like it will clean up nicely though with some elbow grease. Maybe have a beer or two while supervising your son doing the cleanup work.

Let us know how it shoots.
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Old 02-24-2017, 9:18 AM
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Finally got a chance to strip it down, and it is the filthiest rifle I have ever bought, which is no small statement compared to the No4 I got last year. It was a struggle getting it apart, had to do quite a bit of tapping and hammering, the bottom metal was pretty much glued to the stock with some sort of greasy dirt, as was the handguard to the barrel and sight assembly. I was afraid I was going to damage the HG taking it off, but thankfully it came off ok, lots of tapping on the bottom with a block of wood.

There is some pitting under the handguard, but the steel under the stock line is actually pretty good. After a good scrubbing, it has a date with a electrolysis tank.

(click to embiggen)




I am pretty optimistic on how it will turn out.
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Old 02-24-2017, 10:01 AM
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Not bad for the money.
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Old 03-02-2017, 12:37 PM
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Started scrubbing down the stock, holy crap that is a lot of dirt. Went to the old standby for filthy stocks, Scrubbing bubbles bathroom cleaner, a nylon scrub brush and hot water.

No scrubbing yet, that stuff started out white:


The liquid coming off it looks like coffee.


Getting there.


The wood underneath doesn't look bad, I think this is going to be nice, especially for the price. Still a lot of scrubbing ahead.
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Old 03-02-2017, 1:03 PM
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I bought one from J and G sales the 762x51 now and it came pretty dirty picking it up tomorrow
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Old 03-02-2017, 1:14 PM
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7x57 is still a capable round.

Buy in bulk
https://ammoliquidator.com/sellier-b...al-rounds.html
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Old 03-02-2017, 2:38 PM
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My understanding which could be way off, is that the 7.62X51 were actually converted by using some kind of insert in the bore. The problem with them was that apparently that insert can come lose and be dangerous in the weapon. That being said in the original caliber they are a good rifle.
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Old 03-02-2017, 3:05 PM
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My understanding which could be way off, is that the 7.62X51 were actually converted by using some kind of insert in the bore. The problem with them was that apparently that insert can come lose and be dangerous in the weapon. That being said in the original caliber they are a good rifle.
Never heard that, they ones I have looked at were all re barreled. An insert wouldn't work, the bore is bigger, and you really wouldn't want to try and squeeze a .308" bullet down a ~.284" bore.

My biggest concern is that the Spanish 1916 is a small ring 1893 pattern action, and was never intended for pressures you see from a .308

Lots of discussion of that here: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1149806
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Old 03-02-2017, 6:02 PM
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My understanding which could be way off, is that the 7.62X51 were actually converted by using some kind of insert in the bore. The problem with them was that apparently that insert can come lose and be dangerous in the weapon. That being said in the original caliber they are a good rifle.
The M1 Garand was converted by the military for a while using a chamber insert. They were not very successful but did work. The insert could become loose and fall out. I do not think it was ever tried on 1916 Mausers.
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Old 03-02-2017, 6:50 PM
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Default Insert sold by Ace Dube . . . 7.62x39 adapters . . .

If you are worried about the CUP pressure in the old Chilean or Spanish 7.62x51 conversions, buy an adapter insert for $20 from Ace Dube and use 7.62x39 cartridges . . . cheap ammo that won't damage the old mauser action.

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The M1 Garand was converted by the military for a while using a chamber insert. They were not very successful but did work. The insert could become loose and fall out. I do not think it was ever tried on 1916 Mausers.
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Old 03-02-2017, 9:23 PM
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Funny, it just occurred to me that I still had the inventory list from the Samco bankruptcy auction. I checked, and my rifle is listed. Samco purchased it in February of 1986. The reason it is so filthy is it had been sitting on a pallet in Samco's warehouse for thirty years.
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Old 03-03-2017, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ef9boy88 View Post
My understanding which could be way off, is that the 7.62X51 were actually converted by using some kind of insert in the bore. The problem with them was that apparently that insert can come lose and be dangerous in the weapon. That being said in the original caliber they are a good rifle.
That was the Chilean 1895. The inserts were soldered in, and after enough rounds had been put through it, the solder would get etched out where the insert met the bore. These barrels were re-bored from 7mm to .308.
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Old 03-03-2017, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by emcon5 View Post
Also, what bayonets fit these?

Looking here, it looks like the 1913 is the correct one, but will any Spanish (pre K98 pattern) bayonet fit?

http://worldbayonets.com/Bayonet_Ide...n/spain_2.html

Thanks,
Tom, actually any one of the bayos made for Spanish Mausers, large and small ring. The 1913 would be the best bet for being correct. I have the Ricchieri Adapter if you need it, and I have the front sling swivel you need.
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Old 03-11-2017, 6:46 AM
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Default Gunsmith 1916 Spanish Mauser

Back in November, I bought two gunsmith specials because I needed a project. I took them both apart, cleaned & put back together. One needed a firing pin. Bought firing pin off of Ebay for $20.00 & installed it easily enough. Finally took them both to the desert yesterday. One worked fine, however, the other would only put a shallow "dimple" the primer.

(by the way, both rifles we exactly as advertised, so there were no bad surprises).

I will take the bolt apart again and give it another cleaning, but am I facing a weak spring or head-space issue here? What do you all think?
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