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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles.

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  #1  
Old 07-19-2018, 9:28 PM
RelaxBro RelaxBro is offline
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Default Moving Forward...AR Builds

Ok, so I want to first say I really appreciate any assistance anyone can give. I have read thread after thread here, including all 5 pages of the "CA ASSAULT WEAPON REGISTRATION..." (not sure why it was in all caps BTW) and I still have a few questions as of today, since info from a few months ago could be irrelevant.

All of my builds are from 2016 when I was super excited when I first found out about the "home build AR", and have been registered long ago. But let's say I wanted to go out and build a 5.56 tomorrow (mid July 2018), and I DO NOT want featureless. Actually, let me put in the details on bulletpoints (slight pun intended)

ALREADY AWARE OF:
  • name, serial, city/state, model has to be engraved

WILL HAVE:
  • Fixed mag! (I don't care how long it takes me to load, I like features)
  • Retractible stock
  • Foregrip
  • Length longer than 30" (roughly 33 since I would want to use the same barrel as one of my other builds)
  • 10 round magazine

My questions, since things have obviously changed since 2016 when I built my others:
  1. Is it possible to register it? I see SOOO much conversation about featureless, but that has ZERO appeal to me.
  1. Is it even REQUIRED to register it? I have read a lot about registration of the "AW" but, according to SB880/AB1135 flowchart fixed mag ISN'T an AW
  1. NOW! Does the scenario change if I want to build a dedicated 22LR? Same components, over 30" etc..except it wouldn't be a fixed mag because the kits out there don't offer that. a 22LR is NOT a centerfire, and again going by the SB880/AB1135 flowchart, it clearly state "CENTERFIRE".

I want to build something a little different than the ones that I have, and honestly I'm a HUGE fan of 22s so I wouldn't be horribly upset if I ended up building a 22 instead of another 5.56.

My goal is to build another firearm for a different purpose than my others (target not hunting), that has features, and is 100% legal.

I have NO interest in a featureless, or anything illegal, that's why I'm looking for your wisdom, NOT your opinion on why I should go featureless, unless that's the only legal way. If there is not other way than featureless I'll just go out and buy a "AR" style 22, but I'd rather build one.

There are 2 other buddies of mine that have the same questions, so at least 3 people are curious.

Thank you in advance
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  #2  
Old 07-19-2018, 9:48 PM
Drew Eckhardt Drew Eckhardt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RelaxBro View Post
Ok, so I want to first say I really appreciate any assistance anyone can give. I have read thread after thread here, including all 5 pages of the "CA ASSAULT WEAPON REGISTRATION..." (not sure why it was in all caps BTW) and I still have a few questions as of today, since info from a few months ago could be irrelevant.

All of my builds are from 2016 when I was super excited when I first found out about the "home build AR", and have been registered long ago. But let's say I wanted to go out and build a 5.56 tomorrow (mid July 2018), and I DO NOT want featureless. Actually, let me put in the details on bulletpoints (slight pun intended)

ALREADY AWARE OF:
  • name, serial, city/state, model has to be engraved
As of July 1, 2018 you must apply to DOJ for a serial number due to AB857 from the 2016 gunmageddon.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...201520160AB857


Quote:
  • Length longer than 30" (roughly 33 since I would want to use the same barrel as one of my other builds)
It's impossible to make a non-NFA AR rifle with a standard buffer tube under 30" long.

A genuine M4 with 14.5" barrel is 29.75" with 1.75" A2 bird cage and collapsed stock.

You need a 2.25" extended A2 bird cage pinned and welded in place to make the federal 16" minimum barrel length which gets you to 30.25" overall.


Quote:
  1. Is it possible to register it? I see SOOO much conversation about featureless, but that has ZERO appeal to me.
It can't be registered as an assault weapon.

Using a home made receiver you must register it.

Using a store bought receiver purchased after January 1, 2014 it'll be registered.

Using a receiver purchased before then you could voluntarily register it although I have no idea why some one would do that.

Quote:
  1. NOW! Does the scenario change if I want to build a dedicated 22LR? Same components, over 30" etc..except it wouldn't be a fixed mag because the kits out there don't offer that. a 22LR is NOT a centerfire, and again going by the SB880/AB1135 flowchart, it clearly state "CENTERFIRE".
No. Your issue is the "ghost gun ban," not the "bullet button ban."

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 07-19-2018 at 9:53 PM..
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  #3  
Old 07-19-2018, 10:08 PM
RelaxBro RelaxBro is offline
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Thank you Drew, that's pretty much everything I've read
In case you're unaware, one of the questions reads "is the overall length less than 30"?" which is why I stated it would be over 30".

As far as the "ghost gun ban", you're right, that is COMPLETELY different than the bullet button ban, and I understand that registration is registration, that's all the same, regardless of what you build. But from what I've researched the 22LR I can have a removable magazine with all the features since it's not a centerfire, that's what I'm trying to confirm. I'd hate to have to pick up something from Big5
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  #4  
Old 07-20-2018, 9:30 AM
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Yes, .22lr rifles can have "evil" features and normal magazine releases, and they will not be considered Assault Weapons.

Only centerfire rifles can be considered Assault Weapons.
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Old 07-20-2018, 9:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post


It's impossible to make a non-NFA AR rifle with a standard buffer tube under 30" long.

"
False.

NFA says minimum 26" OAL and a minimum 16" barrel.


Now California AW laws say minimum 30" OAL and a minimum 16" barrel for semiautomatic centerfire rifles. However they say nothing about semiautomatic rimfire rifles. Thus only NFA OAL and Barrel length restrictions listed above apply.

So OP, yes, you can have a 26" OAL or longer semiautomatic rimfire rifle with full "features" and standard magazine release.
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  #6  
Old 07-20-2018, 9:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainDew View Post
False.

NFA says minimum 26" OAL and a minimum 16" barrel.


Now California AW laws say minimum 30" OAL and a minimum 16" barrel for semiautomatic centerfire rifles. However they say nothing about semiautomatic rimfire rifles. Thus only NFA OAL and Barrel length restrictions listed above apply.

So OP, yes, you can have a 26" OAL or longer semiautomatic rimfire rifle with full "features" and standard magazine release.
You're not wrong, but neither is he, because that's not what he meant.

He meant that it's PHYSICALLY impossible to make an AR, that has a standard buffer tube and a 16" barrel, less than 30".

Nevermind the legality - it's a geometry issue.

(You actually technically could though, with a LAW folding stock adapter)
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  #7  
Old 07-20-2018, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RelaxBro View Post
ALREADY AWARE OF:
  • name, serial, city/state, model has to be engraved
At this point in time there is no advantage of building from 80% and paying to have it engraved and paying to volreg it when you can buy a stripped lower already engraved and registered when DROS it.
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  #8  
Old 07-20-2018, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockedandglocked View Post
Yes, .22lr rifles can have "evil" features and normal magazine releases, and they will not be considered Assault Weapons.

Only centerfire rifles can be considered Assault Weapons.
too bad we can't get rimfire .223 rounds...
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Last edited by Scratch705; 07-20-2018 at 10:51 AM..
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Old 07-20-2018, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
someone try to convince an ammo maker and gun maker to make a rimfire .223 type rifle....

imagine the sales that this would get in CA.
I've thought about that! The problem is that rimfire requires a thin-walled casing in order to work. With the thin casing, and the pressure that smokeless powder creates, you really can't safely make a very powerful cartridge. That's why rimfire, these days, is limited to .22lr and similar.

In the old days, there used to be much bigger rimfire cartridges, but that was because they used lower-pressure black powder.
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  #10  
Old 07-20-2018, 11:03 AM
Drew Eckhardt Drew Eckhardt is offline
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Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
too bad we can't get rimfire .223 rounds...
.17 Winchester Super Magnum rimfire provides 20 gr @ 3000 fps or 25 @ 2600, and has enough powder for gas operated semi-automatic rifles.

.22 WMR and .17 HMR are also options with a little more oomph than .22 LR.
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  #11  
Old 07-20-2018, 5:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
too bad we can't get rimfire .223 rounds...
What you want already basically exists.
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