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Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated Centerfire rifles, carbines and other gas operated rifles. |
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#41
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Keep in mind that the new law covers anything that "does not have a fixed magazine"... it doesn't matter if it's detachable, detachable with a tool, or "won't stay in"... if it is not a fixed magazine, it is not legal to be featured and have the action assembled. The PT AR LOK was legal in 2016. It is absolutely NOT legal in 2017, and the manufacturer is being deceitful by claiming that it is "DOJ Approved" when the only "approval" that DOJ has given is that it qualifies as a firearms safety device. The thing is a perfect device to keep the gun safe from the kids loading it and shooting someone. Unfortunately, it is not legal to remove the block and install a magazine... at least not unless it is registered as an AW some time this year.
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- Rich |
#42
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Even being a semiautomatic... the first example is rimfire, which is exempt unless it is a pistol.
The 2nd example is a fixed magazine. The 3rd example, the action is disassembled. All legal... aside from the fact that they are also legal because they are featureless. The M1A with a flash hider IS an AW. The M1 Garand is featureless... but even if it were not, it is a fixed magazine. Enbloc clips are not magazines.
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- Rich |
#43
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After reading your comments and others, I can see your point. When I first saw their website and the claim that it was 2017 compliant, I kind of figured I was missing something. I'm glad I posted it and had some other folks take a look at it too.
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#44
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Although there may be many updates to the particular products and their availability, I do not see that the suggested products mentioned here in the last month or so meet the intent of this list. Although very interested in the topic in general, I'm not active enough here to upgrade and rigorously maintain the list.
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#45
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I can see cease fires at ranges taking a lot longer when people are trying
to untruck some of these devices. Also,when a stoppage occurs while shooting,the prospect of a "ND" occurring while someone is trying to clear their weapon is a very real and scary possibility.
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NRA LIFE (1974) Psalm 46:10 I had a commission/USNR from 71-77 but never consider myself a Vet MyDad+4uncles/USMC/WW2/Korea/Vietnam. My Grandfather US Army WW1. No heroes,just regular folks--they were Veterans. “Do not be deceived.God is not mocked. You will reap what you sow.” |
#46
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This is a M1-D Garand, but any one in this configuration would count just the same. There are literally millions of these rifles in circulation. (Note: the CMP is a federally-founded, US government chartered program, established with the express purpose of training civilians in the marksmanship of arms that are in common use in case of draft. California [and Maryland explicitly] have essentially neutered their own Federal militia training program for the modern generation of arms, and now the laws or so backwards they are affecting the Greatest Generation too.) As a note, I am aware the trigger assembly comes out as a package. But my point is about concept. The laws are overbroad and contradictory. Here's another one. Different configuration. Last edited by Citizen One; 04-12-2017 at 1:29 AM.. |
#47
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It is not illegal "without a magazine"
It is illegal "without a fixed magazine" Removing the part does not result in a change to the design of the gun, which is that it has a fixed magazine. It does not have a single, non-fixed magazine that can be removed and replaced to reload the gun. Without a magazine installed, you simply have a single shot self-ejecting rifle. It would be no different from an AR with an ARMaglock and the magazine removed with the upper closed. It ceases to be a semiautomatic rifle without the magazine in place.
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- Rich |
#48
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swamp2, are you still keeping your list updated?
I don't see the FC Hook in the list: http://torqueprecision.com/p/aboutfchook |
#49
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Answered above.
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#51
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#52
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#54
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Settle down, folks. The new "ghost gun" regulations probably don't do what you think they do. |
#55
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Just read reviews and they have to epoxy or jb weld it. Last edited by NATEWA; 08-06-2017 at 2:51 PM.. |
#56
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You can't spin the latch into place far enough to lock it in... there has to be a bolt threaded in. Hard to tell without more images, but I suspect the "button" is internally threaded like a standard release, and the latch is held in place while a bolt is threaded into the button. In that case, not legal, since the device can be removed without opening the upper (same as the owner of ARMaglock demonstrating how to clear a malfunction) Interesting that the SKU for that is ARMAGLOCK They list that as a New York compliance item... if they've been using that name longer than ARMaglock's owner, he might find himself on the wrong side of one of the lawsuits he seems to enjoy.
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- Rich |
#57
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It's a screw that gets tightened into place in the magazine catch bar. To remove the magazine, you would have to loosen the screw enough for the magazine catch bar to let the magazine drop. That method of fixing a magazine in the lower receiver would not meet the new CA definition of a fixed magazine because it does not require "disassembly of the action" in order for the magazine to be removed. |
#58
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A cap screw slides through the button and threads into the magazine catch bar. The magazine catch bar is threaded. To install, you insert a magazine, hold the magazine catch bar in place and then insert the button and screw and tighten the screw. |
#59
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- Rich |
#60
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Could this be an option for AR pistols? Is a non-semi-auto AR pistol with detachable magazine CA-compliant?
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#61
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Apparently NY does not have such requirement. |
#62
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The wording of the law appears to exempt pistols and shotguns. I don't want to be the test case. Interesting... they just don't consider a bullet tip to be a "tool" (bullet button has never been legal there)
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- Rich |
#63
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I agree though. I wouldn't want to be a test-case. It would be difficult to tell the difference between the two, probably even while shooting. |
#64
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The problem with this modified BHO would be IF the gas system is still in place... the gun is still technically semi-automatic. One could probably hold the BHO release (thumb of the left hand, using the magwell as a forward grip), and allow the gun to operate in semi-automatic mode. If the gas system is not present on the upper, it would be more likely to fly (rifle or pistol). In that case, it would be a bolt action gun, the BHO would simply lock the bolt back to allow chambering of the next round. That would work for an SSE2 build with a zero-round sled locked in.
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- Rich |
#65
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The Tier5 FAQ references the ATF definition of semi-auto, which includes loading the subsequent round. If the firearm does not do that without user interaction, is it still semi-auto by ATF definition? Who's going to be the test-case in CA? Disclaimer: nothing posted here is legal advise. Last edited by swell1957; 08-06-2017 at 5:07 PM.. Reason: clarify |
#67
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http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1366673
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#68
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#70
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#71
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Other bho devices could solve this and be not semiauto, gas or not. |
#72
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#73
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What's the opinion on this device, questionable gray area on compliance?
https://maglatchusa.com/collections/...magazine-again |
#74
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#76
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The upper must be hinged open to remove "the finger" whether the setscrew is installed or not.
Once the finger is removed, it functions as a normal mag release. My concern is: If top-loading from a stripper clip or manually, it would be legal. If removing the magazine, once the finger is out, it is a normal AR mag release and not legal. I would caution that the finger may only be legally removed with the upper completely separated from the lower, not merely hinged forward.
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- Rich |
#77
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I see you point...
So, is this that Mod 1 we heard about back in January but soon after received an letter from ARMaglock lawyers? https://www.333tactical.com/product-page/calcatch Last edited by DrkSh8ds; 09-30-2017 at 10:34 AM.. |
#78
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It is a magazine lock and works great. |
#79
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#80
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I don't see how this Maglatch is any "grayer" an option than any of these other devices in this thread. Like the other devices,you ain't getting the mag out until you open the action-whether you are just shaking the fngr out-or unscrewing the screw and shaking it out. If you think this device does not comply-then you probably don't think the FC Hook does either,as they both do the same thing but are obviously releasing the mag in a different way. When I saw the ad-I was like WTF? Why are they saying it's so you don't forget your mag? Who the hell forgets their mag? But their AK lock is sold as a compliance device-so yeah-surely it's to keep the Scumbag Owners of ARmagcock away. Also when I first saw their ad-I saw them shake out the fngr in the video,and thought-how lame..shaking the lock out? How cheesey! Then it sunk in....wait..it operates just like an FC hook except when one wants to drop mags like a proper man..instead of taking a few minutes and having to pull the FC hook out to put a proper mag release in,you just open it up and drop the finger out. Brilliant! Instant Free State rifle. And no ugly,questionably functioning overpriced doohickey contraptions bolted to the outside of the gun...and no quick release overpriced takedown pins contraption required either. Granted.. at the range you may want to have purchased some MA or BF loaders..so you can legally load as quickly and efficiently as you can with a fixed mag AR. .. Last edited by LEAD LAUNCHER; 09-30-2017 at 12:47 PM.. Reason: spelling |
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