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  #1  
Old 11-01-2017, 11:31 AM
gryffinwings gryffinwings is offline
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Default Possible Type 38 Arisaka buy? (pictures fixed)

So I found a Type 38 Arisaka, seems a little rough, but more or less complete and the price is pretty good I think at 250. I gave it a rough inspection, the bore looked decent, I didn't really check for serials though.

Seems like a carbine length, but I could be wrong, I seem to remember that Type 38s in regular length were quite long.

What do you think?








Last edited by gryffinwings; 11-01-2017 at 3:28 PM.. Reason: title
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  #2  
Old 11-01-2017, 1:06 PM
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Without pictures and a very detailed description I think you're getting hosed. Dust cover has no bearing on late or early production. Is the mum intact or ground/defaced? We need pics.
Jon
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Old 11-01-2017, 1:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musketjon View Post
Without pictures and a very detailed description I think you're getting hosed. Dust cover has no bearing on late or early production. Is the mum intact or ground/defaced? We need pics.
Jon
Pics should be there, if not I will try and rehost them.... hmmmm... thanks for letting me know that they aren't loading.
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Old 11-01-2017, 1:40 PM
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Ok, pictures should be viewable, let me know if they aren't.

Type 38, not sure if it's a carbine or not. Has dust cover, looks to be pre-1935 as it doesn't have a series block number as you can see in the picture, it 1.7 million something. Mum isn't intact. It doesn't look the greatest, but upon inspection, there is some preservative and grime that needs to be removed. Bore looks fine as far as I can tell, should clean up fine and shoot well. The arsenal stamp on the left side of the receiver tells me it's the Koishikawa arsenal in Tokyo that made this one. What year it is, I have no idea, but it seems to be sometime 1935 or earlier.
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Old 11-01-2017, 1:43 PM
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That's a hard pass, you can get a much, much nicer one for slightly more
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Old 11-01-2017, 1:56 PM
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Looks too long to be a carbine. The stock appears very rough, forward hand guard is absent. Is it possible that this rifle was assembled from random parts?

I defer to the experts, here.

I just bought a Type 38 carbine myself, a few days ago (pix) attached. For reference, it measures about 38" from head-to-toe.
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  #7  
Old 11-01-2017, 2:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingotech View Post
Looks too long to be a carbine. The stock appears very rough, forward hand guard is absent. Is it possible that this rifle was assembled from random parts?

I defer to the experts, here.

I just bought a Type 38 carbine myself, a few days ago (pix) attached. For reference, it measures about 38" from head-to-toe.
I think you are correct that it's not a carbine length, I also don't think it's missing any handguards. I'm finding other pictures that look like that.

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Old 11-01-2017, 3:18 PM
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What is the caliber? I'm guessing there is a decent chance it's not 6.5mm

BTW, this is one of those things you can't guess, you need to KNOW. Arisakas were converted into several different calibers after WW2, this is extremely important to know, for obvious reasons. Last thing you want is a rifle blowing up in your face
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Old 11-01-2017, 3:20 PM
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It's not a carbine and it is not missing a HG. Just fyi--6.5 Jap brass is hard to come by and very expen$ive when you do find it. If you can find a type 99 in 7.7 Jap it's a cinch to make the brass from 30-06, 6.5 not so much. I've owned both at one time. Type 99 kicks like an '03, type 38 is a very mild recoil and very accurate due to the Metford-type rifling.
Jon
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Old 11-01-2017, 3:23 PM
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Looks like standard rifle length and it looks a bit beat up, how is the bore? I would keep looking, $250-$300 will get you a much nicer example.

Last edited by MajorSideburns; 11-01-2017 at 3:25 PM..
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  #11  
Old 11-01-2017, 3:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorSideburns View Post
Looks like standard rifle length and it looks a bit beat up, how is the bore? I would keep looking, $250-$300 will get you a much nicer example.
Bore looked pretty good from what I could tell. The rifle needs a good bit of clean up from what I could tell. I'm not sure if I can find anything better in that price range in San Diego, there isn't a lot of options to work with. Arisakas seem to be going up in price recently, from what I can tell.
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Old 11-01-2017, 3:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimja View Post
What is the caliber? I'm guessing there is a decent chance it's not 6.5mm

BTW, this is one of those things you can't guess, you need to KNOW. Arisakas were converted into several different calibers after WW2, this is extremely important to know, for obvious reasons. Last thing you want is a rifle blowing up in your face
It's 6.5mm the shop double checked, and also the rifling in this rifle was metford rifling which was still intact. Also your most likely referring to Type 99s, those often got converted to different calibers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by musketjon View Post
It's not a carbine and it is not missing a HG. Just fyi--6.5 Jap brass is hard to come by and very expen$ive when you do find it. If you can find a type 99 in 7.7 Jap it's a cinch to make the brass from 30-06, 6.5 not so much. I've owned both at one time. Type 99 kicks like an '03, type 38 is a very mild recoil and very accurate due to the Metford-type rifling.
Jon
I plan to hand load, and you can get brass for 6.5 Jap as far as I know, so no problems there.
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Old 11-01-2017, 3:37 PM
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Is that at a Turner's?

I don't want to snake the Arisaka, just looked like the way Turner's is merchandised.
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  #14  
Old 11-01-2017, 3:46 PM
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Is that at a Turner's?

I don't want to snake the Arisaka, just looked like the way Turner's is merchandised.
Not Turner's, it's a smaller store.

I wish there were more milsurps in San Diego.
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  #15  
Old 11-01-2017, 3:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gryffinwings View Post
It's 6.5mm the shop double checked, and also the rifling in this rifle was metford rifling which was still intact. Also your most likely referring to Type 99s, those often got converted to different calibers.



I plan to hand load, and you can get brass for 6.5 Jap as far as I know, so no problems there.
A lot of T-38's were converted as well, I had a couple and still have one, the Chinese converted them to 7.62x39, they were used in China and Vietnam
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Old 11-01-2017, 3:58 PM
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Patience, my friend. Looks pretty beat up to me. You are probably overpaying. Prices for type 38 really has not gone up that much recently, perhaps because of the lack of ammo availability. If you are keen on getting a beater, I can only assume that you want to shoot it. Then you are faced with the pricy ammo. 6.5 Jap is around $1.50 per round.

Risingsun
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Old 11-01-2017, 4:46 PM
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Type 38s typically 6.5mm but not std. 6.5mm .264, usually .268 or larger due to wear, corrosion.

Bullets avail but expensive, cast bullets dont shoot well unless bore is pristine. Mold, bullet sizing die, gas checks $140, brass? Privi partisan, maybe old norma, ammo privi partisan but bullets are undersize. Die set? Some old die sets at gun show, new $70-100.
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Old 11-01-2017, 5:31 PM
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Hornady does make a .267 diameter bullet for the Carcano

https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifl...7-160-gr-rn#!/
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  #19  
Old 11-01-2017, 6:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flowjoe View Post
Is that at a Turner's?

I don't want to snake the Arisaka, just looked like the way Turner's is merchandised.
It looks to be Fine Firearms in La Mesa. Maybe it is time to check them out again as they appear to be very well stocked.

irh
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Old 11-01-2017, 7:21 PM
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They are not appreciating very much at all - you can get a nice one for $250, with mum, keep looking.
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Old 11-01-2017, 7:39 PM
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That looks like Fine Firearms. Their prices tend to be gougie I'd hold out for another one unless you are in a rush for some reason.
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Old 11-01-2017, 7:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitfighter View Post
They are not appreciating very much at all - you can get a nice one for $250, with mum, keep looking.
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Originally Posted by I Swan View Post
That looks like Fine Firearms. Their prices tend to be gougie I'd hold out for another one unless you are in a rush for some reason.
You think that's bad, Discount Gun Mart is worse. They have 2 Type 99s I think and they have rust in the bores, could be Type 38s, but they are priced at $300. So far this has been the best one I could find in a store. I've also called around, no one seems to have any. No one local seems to be interested in selling from what I can tell... it's a little frustrating. It's tempting to just give the rifle a good home cause it seems like a good shooter.
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Old 11-01-2017, 8:12 PM
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Pass. That's a pretty rough one. Be patient the right one will come along.
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Old 11-02-2017, 6:55 AM
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The ground mum would definitely be the deciding factor for me.
Jon
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Old 11-02-2017, 7:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gryffinwings View Post
They have 2 Type 99s I think and they have rust in the bores
Surface rust in the bore isn't something that would personally bother me. That's gone in one shot .

I thought I sent you a PM but couldn't find any record of it. I've got a pretty clean T99 (ground mum, non-matching bolt, no dust cover, monopod, or AA wings) that was rechambered in .30-06 but otherwise unmolested. I'm not in a hurry to sell it but it does pretty much just take up space in the safe. (in SD)
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Old 11-02-2017, 7:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimja View Post
A lot of T-38's were converted as well, I had a couple and still have one, the Chinese converted them to 7.62x39, they were used in China and Vietnam
The type 38 was often converted to 6.5 x 257 Roberts. The chamber is bigger to use mauser brass. The bore is the same. 6.5 Jap would still feed through the chamber but not be safe to fire.

For that money and condition but no mum, I would pass for sure. Unless it is 100% correct, then I might buy. Probably not though.
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Old 11-02-2017, 2:45 PM
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The stock is a little beat up but the metal looks pretty good. The stock can be improved with some care. Unlike Type 99 rifle wood that was finished with urushi, Type 38 rifle wood was finished with good old raw linseed oil (flaxseed oil).

If the dust cover matches the bolt (number is on the back flange of the dust cover)



(the bolt's serial number is at the base of the bolt handle)



I would consider buying it. If the dust cover and bolt match the rifle I would definitely buy it.

Some Type 38's match the bolt number to the rifle's serial number, so check that first. If the bolt doesn't match the rifle's serial number that's OK. Most Type 38's don't match by the serial number. They match by an assembly number that can be found on the bottom of the receiver.



The store owner is probably not going to let you take the rifle apart to see the assembly number on the bottom of the receiver. But you can see the assembly number other ways. The magazine floorplate, triggerguard, and bolt release catch





are also marked with the assembly number. Perhaps the store owner will allow you to pop off the magazine floorplate and look at the bolt release catch. If those numbers match each other and match the bolt and dust cover then the rifle is matching and would be a good buy at that price, even with the ground mum.

Type 38's are not as common in the US as Type 99's. I have come across probably 10x as many Type 99's as Type 38's, and I own way more Type 99's than Type 38's. I have an interest in Japanese rifles so I wouldn't pass on a matching Type 38 for $250, but people who are not interested in Japanese rifles might not be that interested.

This is a small exhibit I set up at an Oregon Arms Collectors meeting a few years ago. On the right from top to bottom are a relatively rare Type 38 Cavalry rifle (between a standard rifle and a carbine in length), a Type 38 Carbine, a Type 44 Carbine, and a battle-damaged Type 99 rifle.

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  #28  
Old 11-02-2017, 3:15 PM
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Have you looked on Gun Brokers? There are usually plenty of Arisakas for sale there. That one looks really rough. For a little more money you can find much nicer ones.
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Old 11-02-2017, 8:38 PM
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It will never be a pristine example, but some Kroil, brass brush or wool, and time on your part might be rewarded with a decent looking rifle. The stock can be cleaned up a bit with hot BLO and a piece of burlap to scrub off the grunge. It can always be a placeholder until you find a nicer looking one for your collection. For $250 it's worth it just for the experience of cleaning up a neglected rifle.

I would definitely cast the chamber though before you take it to the range. Knowing what it's chambered for could save you from a bad accident.
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Old 11-03-2017, 1:06 PM
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Looks like a bit of a beat rifle for $250. I got mine a few yrs back for $250 and it's in better shape

I know you can get better ones. I'd wait
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Old 11-03-2017, 3:05 PM
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Nice post and helpful too, Milsurp collector - !
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Old 11-03-2017, 5:28 PM
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Ask if they will drop the price fifty bucks. That rifle will clean up nice with a little work.
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Old 11-04-2017, 4:44 PM
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So... I've been reading up a bit lately on Type 38s historically. I'm trying to figure out something, Koishikawa Arsenal was supposedly closed down in 1935, however in 1923 there was the Great Kanto Earthquake that decimated the region including the Koishikawa Arsenal, now from what I was reading the Type 26 Revolver production stopped after this event, I'm wondering if the same is true for the Type 38 rifle stopping production in 1923 due to the devastating earthquake?
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Old 11-07-2017, 8:01 AM
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I don't see any notes on the site I use. Just says that 2+mill T38's made between 1906 and 1935 by Koishikawa

Nagoya made about 10k between 1923 and 1933
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Old 11-07-2017, 9:20 PM
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Not sure where people shop but you're not likely to find a better deal local. I'd totally buy it. Long as the bore is good and it functions, 6.5 jap brass/ammo isn't that hard to come by. I'm a cheapskate and don't feel the need to own the premier, best version of every rifle. If I have an example that shoots alright and I didn't pay a king's ransom for it, it's alright with me. If you're the same, buy it, clean it, shoot it, love it. Don't worry about what other people think if it makes you happy.
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Old 11-07-2017, 9:51 PM
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Has that stock been refinished and now it is flaking off?

That original Japanese finish - "Urushi" - I only hear sad stories about trying to duplicate/work with it. http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...9-Stock-Finish http://www.gunboards.com/sites/banza...h/UpM99Fin.htm

Good Luck

Last edited by Rogerbutthead; 11-07-2017 at 9:58 PM..
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Old 11-08-2017, 9:37 PM
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^^^What he said. It's basically sumac which is friggin' poison oak and terrible for you even sanding the original stock. If you do anything, do it wet and with gloves, a mask, glasses, and good ventilation. I'd use a good wood stripper and rinse it regularly. Let it dry then use whatever finish you choose but it'll be difficult to replicate "original". If it's got a ground mum, who cares? Stain and/or finish it with BLO and go shoot. I suck with woodwork and staining. Still trying to "age" my BLO and refinish the stock/handguard on a couple carcanos to try to match. Problem is that the wood is not the same type or grain so doesn't receive oil the same way. Also needs 80 years of dirt, blood, and god-knows-what to give it the right look. Good luck buddy.
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